This seems so hopeless

[klmno]

You know, I wonder,now that difficult child will be on medicaid which might pay for more than my provate insurance, if I went into court with things in writing showing that if difficult child wasn't on probation, he would qualify for X, Y and Z, would it help? I seriously don't mind someone recieving a verification that difficult child is staying in therapy, doing this or that- that isn't my problem. My problem is someone telling my son that I am overprotective, then calling me telling me to make sure he's stays supervised 24/7 OR ELSE. That kind of stuff- when she isn't in the middle of the therapy stuff and wouldn't get it anyway. Couldn't they just let the gal receive monthly reports or something? When difficult child was on probation a few years ago, with a different person, that is pretty much all she did- verify that court orders were being met. She never once got into therapy issues or undermined my decisions. If she had a concern, she called me and we discussed it like two adults and weighed what was in difficult child's best interest.

Big brothers is supposed to be good- but when I explored it once before they had a 6 mo waiting list, didn't return my call for 2 mos (to get info) and told me they were mostly college kids who went away at the end of the school year. This might just be the typical for the males, but I had too many concerns about difficult child ending up broken hearted, or at least, disappointed and I couldn't take that chance at that time. He was suffering through the "father" issues and I wanted to be a little more comfrtable that he would have someone dependable for a while.

 

[Wiped Out]

K,
I have no advice, just prayers and hugs. I hate that this has been so difficult. It's just not right.

 

[klmno]

Thanks, WO! DDD, I've been thinking about your question and admittedly, I don't know what exactly you meant by "was her offer reasonable". I have been laying awake worried about a couple of things. 1) She didn't want to put anything in there about Residential Treatment Center (RTC), other than that I had brought it up to discuss with her. That is not true. She is the first person to ever bring up Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as a suggestion for difficult child. She said she couldn't write that in there because she had never evaluation'd difficult child or been his therapist. Then why did she feel qualified to suggest it to me? I've dealt with a therapist in the past who wrote a couple of letters for court in re. to difficult child and one had the truth stretched but I turned it in. The second had the truth stretched a LOT and even though it was in difficult child's and my favor, I did not turn it in because I thought it was a lie. Then, he turned out to be unethical in other ways, in my humble opinion, and I replaced him. (This was a therapist for difficult child.) I would rather keep letters brief and to the immediate point than for them to write lies and it worries me about how competent and ethical she really is,

2) She didn't seem concerned at all about difficult child going to my bro- not that it couldn't happen, just that it was no big deal. She's acted that way about several things. I understand she's not going to react or feel as strongly as me, but couldn't she show a little sensitivity?, 3) She jumped in at one point and seemed the most excited I've ever seen her when she said "oh, she could work with the courts, maybe I should sign a release form and let her talk to them and see what they wanted her to work with me on and that way I could just continue to see her and she could work with me on what they wanted and she could let them know how she used to work with the system and understands it". I said, "then why would I drive this far to see you if I wanted to see a therapist just to cover whatever the court thought I should get treatment for?" Now, what she was saying would make perfect sense if I'd been seeing her for a really long length of time and felt some special therapeutic bond and she already knew we'd been dealing with issues that maybe the court didn't order.. But, that is not the case.

And I am definitely not looking for a therapist to ask the courts what the treatment plan should be. If she didn't even understand that much, she's probably not the right therapist for me. After mulling it over a while, I think I want a therapist who can be more underestanding of the parent's perspective than the courts. If she's unsure about me and whether or not I'm telling her the truth about things, how can she be effective as a counselor? That's another reason I am leary of being court-ordered to a therapist. The majority of the time would be spent trying to prove or convince them that you are telling the truth wouldn't it? Unless they wouldn't even bother to listen, because they'd be too busy moving along in the court ordered procedure.

Personally, I thought she should just write treatment dates down or something verifying that I was seeing her and the types of issues we were discussing and let them know that we haven't been in this long enough yet to deal with other issues, because we've been discussing crisis because in my humble opinion, since we haven't discussed specifics about my history and detailed stuff about my personally, I don't think she could adequately have me assessed yet. Maybe she realizes that so she was going to ask them what treatment they thought I should get. Anyway, I think I prefer a therapist who isn't so willing to ask the courts what that should be in order to get their direction.

Maybe it's neurosis taking over in the wee hours here, but that makes me leary to even turn her letter in and I haven't even read it. If it lead to the gal discussing me with therapist, what on earth would she tell them, given that she did come across a lot like trying to drum up business thru the courts, to me- while I was sitting there thinking that I am looking for a comfort level with a therapist, where I could discuss things without feeling like I had to worry about which words I said would end up in front of PO or court. If I want to vent, I want to vent. I don't want to have to worry about them determining that I'm "anti-government" because of it, then constantly trying to change my view of the system and reporting to courts that kind of stuff. Geez Maybe she wouldn't do all that, but just like she doesn't have that comfort level with me yet, I don't have it with her either and she didn't help that a lot today.

And I have a pet peeve about some tdocs. (LOL!) My previous therapy included a little on communication in relationships. One thing I learned is that if someone says "I feel ABC...". You can't argue that- or it's ineffective to argue that and you should acknowledge that the person feels that way, then proceed with why, how to deal with it, what do they believe that might be leading to it, etc., , but it should never be responded to by statements like " you shouldn't feel that way" or "then you are this way or that way" or "then you just think this" because those statements reflect a person's character, or actions, or beliefs. And those things are not what was brought up. A feeling, which can be neither right or wrong, was brought up. But, I see therapist after therapist do this themselves. It drives me nuts. I guess I'm wanting a therapist who asks "why do you feel that way" or "I can understand feeling that way, but let's talk about better ways to handle it".

 

[klmno]

Ok, here are a couple of sections from VA's state law. Am I the only one that interprets this as a judge is allowed to order Residential Treatment Center (RTC) if there is reason to believe it is warranted and the parent petitions the court? I'm not a legal expert, so please let me know what you think they are saying.

§ 16.1-278.13. Work permits; petitions for treatment, etc.

In cases involving judicial consent to apply for a work permit for a child, the juvenile court shall enter an order either granting, in whole or in part, consent to such application or withholding such consent as is appropriate to protect the health and welfare of the child.

In cases involving petitions filed by or on behalf of a child or such child's parent to obtain treatment, rehabilitation or other services required by law to be provided for such persons, the juvenile court or the circuit court may enter an order in accordance with § 16.1-278.

§ 16.1-278. Cooperation of certain agencies, officials, institutions and associations.

A. The judge may order, after notice and opportunity to be heard, any state, county or municipal officer or employee or any governmental agency or other governmental institution to render only such information, assistance, services and cooperation as may be provided for by state or federal law or an ordinance of any city, county or town.

The officer, employee, agency or institution may appeal such order to the circuit court in accordance with § 16.1-296. The circuit court shall advance such appeals on its docket and may stay the order of the juvenile court during the pendency of the appeal. The circuit court may affirm or reverse the order of the juvenile court. Upon reversal, the circuit court may remand the case to the juvenile court for an alternative disposition.

B. The court is authorized to cooperate with and make use of the services of all public or private societies or organizations which seek to protect or aid children or families, in order that the court may be assisted in giving the children and families within its jurisdiction such care, protection and assistance as will best enhance their welfare

Maybe the root of this is the question: are there any laws requiring psychiatric treatment needed if outpatient isn't enough and the kid needs something between outpatient and intensive inpatient? You know how they try in-home therapy as a next level of care for outpatient? Well, the in home therapist doesn't do psychiatrist care or other in home services. See the part I underlined above- does that mean it has to be a law that the service is provided (as in special education) before a judge is allowed to order it, or does it mean that we have a legal right to get it?

 

[DDD]

I guess, my CD friend, that I've got to surrender...at least a bit. You are going in circles and straying way off course by trying to analyze the rights, the laws, the motivations, the backgrounds AND the intentions
of a whole group of people. People you barely know and people who barely know you. I don't know how to help you. I don't even "know" that my ideas are "the" right ideas. Rats!

My very sincere, caring and honest opinion is that you are in a whirlpool of concerns. You are rightfully vulnerable from the stress of the past two years. Your intentions and goals are honest and honorable.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change" (That includes the past, the personalities of others, the influence and interference of others, your past experiences and the last few years of difficult child's crisis)

"the courage to change the things I might"
(That includes keeping coherent and chronological records to document events and therefore having the capacity to present info to change what might be incorrectly offered...AND...caring for yourself in a healthier way)

"the wisdom to know the difference"
(You can not interpret the law for the Judge or the attorneys. You can not change the mindset of Department of Juvenile Justice personnel. You can not change your bro.
You can not live with yourself comfortably if you say to H with them, they can do whatever they want to with my son.)

I repeat the Serenity prayer at least once a day. Like you I am fairly smart...lol. I think and rethink things WAY too much. I absolutely know beyond a shadow of a doubt that "the system" is faulty and my child has suffered as a result. BUT...I have to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can and focus on making sure I know the difference.

You remain in my thoughts and prayers but you're running around the tree like (hmmm...who was that in the old kids story???). Was it a tiger that turned into butter going around and around the same tree trying to avoid ??? Brer Rabbit???????? My memory is shot but that image seems on target, my friend. Hugs. DDD

 

[CrazyinVA]

I don't think this necessarily applies to Residential Treatment Center (RTC).. it's meant to cover many things. I'm not aware of any laws mandating psychiatric treatment, other than the ones covering temporary detention orders. This gives the judge the power to order certain things, but I suspect it's only in a limited set of circumstances. Only a lawyer familiar with mental health issues could advise you as to those circumstances.

 

[CrazyinVA]

DDD is very wise

 

[Steely]

klmno, just wanted to send hugs. I am overwhelmed reading your posts, I can't imagine how you feel living it.

Is there a way to bring all the documentation to the courts about the abuse that happened to you by bro? If anyone needs to have a psychiatric evaluation it would be him - before they willy nilly hand difficult child to bro.


I have not experienced the legal system in regards to difficult child, so I do not feel adequate really giving much other advice. It all seems so unbelievably complicated for something that should just be so easy.

Literally the time before last, when difficult child was in phosph, they were going to make him go to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I had to sign him out AMA to get him back home. So my experience has been completely opposite, and I am not sure why. Perhaps states different guidelines, phosphs different guidelines, I don't know. I wish I could help more though.

Please know I am praying and thinking about you though. Constantly. You will get through this.

And look worn and tired? Ya think? Cripes!!! That is the true definition of having a difficult child in case any one of them might look that up.

 

[klmno]

That is true, DDD. And I think it gets worse in the middle of the night when I'm awake worried about it. I have tried to tell myself that maybe I'm wrong about my bro, but then I'll remember something I saw him do and heard him say to difficult child and I can't ever accept that solution as tolerable, even temporarily.

I'm trying to deal with it all and find personal resolution. I think I am coming up with decent ideas part of the time and the rest of the time is being spent venting or too emotional. I'm writing a lot of it out (just to get it out- not to send anywhere) and that helps me sort out what is rational to take action on and what isn't.

Right before I went to bed this morning, I did find the clause in the law that still allows a judge to allow a parent of a child on a chins to do a parental placement with dss to place the child in Residential Treatment Center (RTC). It is written as a separate option than removal of parental rights. This makes much more sense and I think this is where the confusion lies, based on the exact terms that the sw from dss referred to and saying she needed to talk to gal asap to get this clarified. IOW, in court the gal said one option is to allow me to pursue parental placement and asked that dss be put on stand-by. Well, the sw said those are two different things and she needs to find this out from gal which she really wants pursued.

That probably sounds like I'm still going in circles and maybe I am, but it was helpful to me because I at least have a little hope that gal did want Residential Treatment Center (RTC) pursued. The sw told me she would let me know as soon as she found out from gal on Monday, she hopes.

I wouldn't dare go into court and challenge what the judge (or even the gal) says they can or cannot do. But, I could ask an attny about it if I was that concerned, or I could keep some info "in my back pocket" for an appeal if I found for sure that there was some legal grounds to dispute a decision.

That being said, please feel free to post a "you are going in circles again" comment whenever you see me getting too hung up on something that isnt feasible to explore!!

The one thing that will never add up to me and Yes, I am stuck on it, is why, if you thought a kid needed to be placed somewhere because that level of care was necessary but you found out you couldn't get it, why would the next option considered be to place the child in a different home with someone who has NO experience raising a child or with mental issues? If you believed that the child really just needed to be removed from home because is is the parent causing the problem, why would you look into a placement with higher level of care for the child to begin with? Now, that might be reason to request a psychiatric evaluation in order to determine if it's the parent, and that might make sense from the CA because she is new to this. But, it doesn't make sense from the others because they already know the background and furthermore, they had a written letter from psychiatrist stating that he recommended Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for difficult child. I just think that the question of whether or not I was the cause was answered a long time ago and don't understand why it comes up each time difficult child is unstable.

This might have crossed sw's mind too because she said if Residential Treatment Center (RTC) can't be gotten, then detention would be the next feasible consideration because difficult child would be in secure environment with more psychiatric care. My first reaction of course (menatlly- not spoken) was that they couldn't even keep difficult child's medications straight for 2 weeks. But, along the lines of meeting his needs, I can see where this would add up more than sending him to my bro.

I am glad I spoke with sw yesterday and feel more comfortable that she will clarify some things with gal before calling my family. If it doesn't add up to sw, she can question it with the gal without it causing a problem.

Another thing I'm having a problem with, besides getting stuck on things at times, is feeling so exhausted by being in the system for so long that I'm to a point where something has to give. So, I'm finding myself thinking that I could go along with "ABC" as they want, IF they were willing to change or agree to "DEF". But that creates conflict between me and the people in the system, if I said that to them. They want to make more demands, I'm sitting there thinking how to relieve demands to make difficult child coming home more feasible. I don't know how to resolve this appropriately. I like the suggestion of discussing it with gal, but she won't return a call so I can't even ask. Plus, I don't think she will have a sit-down discussion over these things. I tried something like that a couple of years ago and she reminded me that she was there to look out for difficult child's best interest, not what I wanted, and hse was not my attny.

Does anyone have any ideas of an appropriate way to let these people know the big stressors for difficult child and me and that I'm willing to try to work something out if we can discuss ways to go about it that relieve stress instead of causing more? I'm very concerned about not getting this out to people before court. And of course, after court they will just say that "they didn't know- I should have told them".

 

[DDD]

I'm glad my rather abrupt post didn't hurt your feelings as that was not the intent, for sure.

In answer to your last paragraph, I think the therapist has to be able to communicate that. She is a professional (albeit not a rocket scientist, lol) and "should" be able to simply state "Mrs. X and little X are understandably showing signs of stress after two years of trying to find the right help for little x's problems. In my professional opinion there would be cause for alarm if Mrs. X did not display signs of concern. She appears to be trying almost too hard to meet the requests/demands of the various participating parties as she is so eager for little x to receive the professional care needed."

I think it is like the very old expression "you stay at the dance with the one that brung ya". You have a therapist. She has appeared to cooperate with you. She has offered to give you her letter draft to use as you see fit. Dr. Phil ain't comin' to your rescue.....he's too busy with OctoMom! IF her letter upsets you, you can flush it. Wait until you see it before trying to decide.

We're on your team and convinced you need a little "time out in the dugout"...lol. Find some possible way to divert your attention a little bit. Walk. Watch a comedy. Rent a sex flick. Order in chinese. Something!
Hugs. DDD

 

[klmno]

Ok- I'll also bring this up with difficult child's treatment team. That might go along way if they relayed it to gal because they have direct contact with her, difficult child is their patient but they also see my involvement and I think their opinion would carry more weight in court.

I wish I could afford an attny to prepare for all potential positions, but I can't. And, at this point, it could backfire to walk in with one because it could be taken as needing to defend myself when I haven't been charged with anything. Monday, the judge was willing to hear my opinion and have me answer questions about difficult child's stay, etc, and I was not on the witness stand. It was more gal speaking, then me speaking, then ca speaking, etc. So, I didn't really need an attny. This might all change though since I'm not taking that test. I'm sure I'll have a chance to speak about that, but she might not be willing to hear anything else I have to offer.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Hugs. I do hope you take some time for you and take a break from this.

What have you done for you lately, klmno? I know it's hard to do that when so many things hang in the balance.

 

[MyHrt31]

Just wanted to pop in and let you know that I am still praying for you. Keep that chin up, you are going to make it through this! Beings its the weekend and nothing can be done until Monday anyway, pop in a movie (something funny like Bridget Jones Diary 2 with repeat on the Colin Firth and Hugh Grant fighting scenes, lol). You deserve a long bubble bath and to snuggle up with a good book and some movies. Try your best to relax and let your mind rest. This way, when the week starts, you'll be ready to battle with a clear, rested mind. Treat yourself!! Hugs!!