Update on 'When is enough, enough?'

[jbrain]

Please listen to Suz, she has it right. My difficult child 2/easy child was being abused by her older sister and we didn't know it. She seemed "fine", she was the perfect child. She had to seem fine because her sister threatened her with all sorts of things and she believed her. It wasn't til we sent the older sister to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that difficult child 2 felt safe enough to tell someone the hell she had been going through--she was 13 at the time. She started dissociating at a very young age to cope with the abuse. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is what your 5 year old is doing. It is the only coping mechanism she has living with a stepbrother who is so scary.

I really think these 2 girls should be the priority here. I agree with you that your stepson's therapist seems to have no regard for the victims here--my difficult child 1's therapist was the same way and we bent over backwards trying to help her at the expense of my other 2 kids. I would never ever do that again if I could do it over. I would put the other 2 kids first.

I truly think you should leave with the 2 girls if husband is going to keep up his attitude--please don't "throw them under the bus".

Sincerely,
Jane

 

[BusynMember]

My two k ids acted "fine" even while they were being abused. They did hang around the abuser. My daughter told me "I thought it was my fault."

I agree that possibly both kids are being abused. I don't mean past tense and one time either. That's what all kids say at first: "It was just one time and he touched me down there." My daughter was penetrated. It hurts me to type this, but when she went for an exam (because the boy was being prosecuted and she had to do--but the people who saw her only saw sexually abused kids and were sooooooooooo kind and gentle)--we found out she had been partially penetrated. And it was far more than one time as our kids had told us even after he left. It took them months to admit it was often and since he had been making visits to our house, even before he'd moved in.

I recommend that anyone who has a young sexual predator at home, no matter how sorry you feel for that child because of HIS abuse, remove him from the house. There is no way to watch him 24/7 and he can get better help out of the home. And your other children need to feel validated. My daughter has told me many times how grateful she is that the boy was sent away and then prosecuted. If he were still living here, with our love surrounding him, truthfully I think she'd be a huge difficult child, thinking she had done something to MAKE him abuse her. Ditto for my Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son whom he also abused.

It isn't good for the kids to "forget." Sometimes that causes disassociation or THEY abuse later on and they don't even know why. I would take the kids and leave and let husband be in denial on his own. To me it would be a no-brainer. I'd be gone, even under difficult circumstances.

 

[Marguerite]

As someone whose daughter was abused at the age of 5, by a kid at school in the school playground - our daughter forgot. She refused to tell us the details of the abuse and wouldn't even tell us how often it happened. It probably involved penetration and in the two years it took her to tell us, her behaviour had deteriorated and other problems developed. Also, by then the boy was beyond our reach, he'd left the school (and so had easy child). I notified the school but without information (because easy child was too terrified to talk) nobody could take any further action. I had easy child into counselling fast, but the counsellor refused to give me ANY details of the sessions and now that easy child is older and wants to talk about it, she has buried it all and can't find her memories. However, she has problems with her weight especially, other issues too which I lay at the door of the abuse not being dealt with properly (even though we did what we could). I think the delay was a factor for us, plus I think the therapy we got was just not good enough (with hindsight).

Burying the abuse is NOT healthy. It is a last-ditch act of desperation in coping, where you bury the knowledge because it's too intolerable, it raises too many conflicts. One of those conflicts is, this is her half-brother whom she is supposed to love and who the family clearly loves; therefore she must also love him or she is a bad person. If this is how you love - then she has to learn to love it. So any bad feelings or bad memories have to get buried.

One day the memories may come back. But if they don't, they are still there festering, like a boil never fully drained and building to a calcified abcess deep in the tissues.

Not good.

I had PTSD after going through a very nasty bushfire about the time I had difficult child 3 (a traumatic delivery). The fire images and the birth memories all linked in my mind but because I had a new baby to care for, I had to not allow myself to be angry or to feel my emotions. I buried it all. And as my mind felt I could handle it, it came back to the surface. Three months after the birth I got flashbacks where I would be standing in my kitchen cooking, and the heat from the hot plate and the flash of light along the stainless steel implements suddenly became the heat from the fires and the steel of surgical instruments. The tiles in the kitchen became the tiles in the delivery room, but there were flames ringing the room, all around me. NOT normal.

The thing is, this happened to me as an adult, and because I was well grown and already knew what is normal and what is not, I was capable of yelling for help and ensuring I got it. A child is far less capable of distinguishing between reality and imagination. A child's brain is also far more malleable and therefore more likely to successfully submerge contradictory memories. But a kind of mental scar tissue builds up around it to protect it form accidental 'puncture', and this layer of 'protection' is where you notice other problems later on.

It's never as OK as it seems.

Marg

 

[BusynMember]

Seeing him around is a constant reminder of the abuse too. The child we adopted and disrupted the adoption on is now 18. My daughter is 12. To this day just his name makes her start to shake. She never talks about it, but is still in therapy where she is watched carefully.

Not talking doesn't mean "she's ok and she even seeks him out so she must not be scared of him." There are so many variables here. I think this kid is a budding psychopath just like the one we adopted. Not all kids can be saved. Your daughters CAN and SHOULD. I don't believe anyone should have to live in the same house as somebody who has sexually abused them. Ever. It is far too traumatic and it may go underground, but it will fester eventually. Scarily, I was forced to learn all this when it happened. If you don't act, you will probably one day be very sorry that you didn't take the girls and leave this man and his child. I don't normally recommend leaving a marriage, but this is the mental stability of your own children at stake here. Every time they see him, they remember what he did and how he got away with it. No real consequences. He violated at least the youngest one and got away with it, which is terrible for her. And you really don't and can't know what else he has done or may be doing. Think of your girls first and last. You can't save this boy. It's up to husband to get him help and he should not be at home getting it. (((Hugs)))

 

[susiestar]

I have to say that I would be out of that house before the end of the day my husband refused to put a sexually abused child's needs ahead of those of the perp.

Yup. the PERP. The stepson is a PERP.

Chances are your daughters are willing to be around him because then they can appease him in the hopes he will not hurt 1 or both of them again. That is just how it is. My own daughter would go and try to play with Wiz. She was terrified she would make him mad and then he would kill her. He not only threatened to kill her, he TRIED.

I still have PTSD from the experience of pulling my 12yo son off of my 8yo daughter's bed because he was strangling her. It was after he thought we were all asleep. He was mad at her. It wasn't sexual, but it was vicious. Arranging a placement for him was tough, he had never been inpatient for anything. The months after that, while he was in the psychiatric hospital were hideous.

I KNOW it isn't easy. It actually hoovers. But you AND husband need to put your daughters, THE VICTIMS, and their needs up higher on the priority list than the stepson, the PERP, is.

Chances are you will learn all kinds of terrible things after the girls finally feel safe. This situation truly is like an iceberg. You can only see 10% of the issues, the rest is below the water.

Even if you have to stay at a domestic violence shelter for a while, it would be worth it. It would show them that they truly matter. It would be a step to get them, and you, the kind of therapies you will all need.

But I would totally, one thousand percent, refuse to have the stepson in your home if his father wasn't there. At least home and away while difficult child is home after school until he goes to SLEEP. Not bed, sleep.

If husband does leave the boy with you, then call and have him removed at that time.

I just start crying when I think of your poor 5yo who has to see the person who hurt her this way every single dang day. I hate hate hate it that the 10yo is also so much at risk. Chances are she is better at keeping quiet about things so he won't hurt her more. Or so he won't go after her little sister.

This will be tough on your husband. But sometimes you have to prioritize even your children. And all the attention that difficult child gets, well, the girls see it upset you and husband, change everything you make plans for, etc...

So, in their minds, since this guy is allowed to live WITH them, eat with them, watch tv with them, and since his behaviors lead to so much emotional attention, then the girls probably think that you and husband love him more than them.

I can pretty much GUARANTEE this. Cause I have been the girls, and I have been the parent with a son who preyed on my daughter.

Please get your daughters out of there before they are irreparably damaged.

 

[Burndoubt]

I have to say thanks again to everyone for their advise, prayers & good intentions.
I know that even my neighbor, who shredded me on my doorstep for "allowing" difficult child to live here, still had good intentions. My best friend 2 states away, is questioning my parenting skills and mental status. I much better understand why so many abused women DON'T speak out. Open your big mouth, and that's what you get. That's the IBSC talking (My Mother calls it the Itty Bitty Sh!++y Committee, aka negative thoughts), I know, but it's always hard to hear, true or not.
I know, no matter how hard it is to hear, that people care, and that my children need to be safer than they are right now. Sometimes, it just really, really hurts to hear some of it. Let me assure you, I AM working on making big changes here. Some of them are taking longer than they should, but I'm doing my damndest.
Just wanted to clear up a couple of items that I hadn't mentioned earlier.
easy child 2 (little easy child) sleeps on her toddler bed in Mom & Daddy's room at night.
We regularly talk about NOT keeping secrets, and what the definition of a secret is (which is never the same 2x for a 5 year old). We talk about how ANY part of her, from the hairs on her head, to the tips of her butt kicking boots (a charming term she picked up from easy child 1) is hers & hers alone, and how NOBODY, NOHOW has the right to touch her. She lives to tattle. *wry grin* Which can be a little annoying at times, but forgivable. Yelling, biting, kicking & screaming is encouraged on that one, if anyone touches her, ESPECIALLY her brother. She yells if he musses her hair. We talk about good & bad touches. She remembers what happened. She remembers she didn't like it. She understands her brother was WRONG in doing what he did.
I understand that none of this guarantees that it hasn't happened again, and it makes me sick.
easy child 1 (our 10 year old) was asked by CPS whether difficult child had touched her, assaulted her, looked at her funny. Her response? "You'd have known if he had. He'd be missing teeth and a scrotum by now."
*grins proudly* That's MY kid! *chuckles wryly* She showed me a few of the self-defense moves she'd picked up in a class she took. Thankfully, she's much more coordinated than I am, with quicker reflexes. I still have that frustrating PTSD deer-in-headlights slow-mo reflex action when I'm scared.
THE GOOD NEWS!!
difficult child's counselor called (FINALLY!!) last night. He's reccomending putting difficult child in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC)! Hubby's been fighting me on it, but after hearing him praise the counselor for so long, I'm anxious to see how what he does with the reccomendation. husband will be taking difficult child in to the counselor at 8:15am tomorrow to discuss it. I'll be there on speakerphone from home (easy child 2 won't be in school yet @ that time). I kept the pictures difficult child drew of his suicidal thoughts, even though husband refused to look at them, telling difficult child to throw them away. I snagged them from the garbage. Scanning & e-mailing them to the counselor with the understanding that he's NOT to discuss it with husband.

Also, yes, I have been to a women's shelter in my life. And Mom, if you're reading this, I'm sorry, I didn't want you to worry, and we've moved past it. But I have to say, it was a bad experience. I know they're not all like that one, but we'll live in my car before I take my kids into that.

 

[graceupongrace]

Burndoubt,

Sending hugs & prayers your way, along with strength, wisdom & compassion. Good job saving & sending the drawings.

Please make sure you protect those girls, and yourself. If husband refuses to go along with the counselor's recommendation regarding the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), that's it. Done.

Forgive me if that sounds harsh. I know it's easy for me to say as an outsider, but I'm concerned about the three of you, and I want the best for you. Nothing good can come of staying under the current circumstances. Please keep us updated.

More hugs.

 

[Burndoubt]

Thanks again, Grace.
I saw your sig & read that your 15 year old difficult child is on 70mg of Vyvanse. Wow. We had ours on the highest dosage of Concerta, and he actually ASKED to be put on a higher dosage, since it had stopped working for him. Impressed the heck out of us. Anyway, the doctor moved him to 20, 30, then 40mg of the Vyvanse, and I thought that was a lot. Trying to get a psychiatrist to do some adjusting though- difficult child's fine during the day. However, from the time he hits the driveway, you never know what you'll get. During the day, impulse control isn't so much of a problem, and the hyperactivity is barely noticable. He likes that Vyvanse doesn't make him shake, too, which we're all happy about. But by 7pm, the impulse control is almost nonexistent.
Has Vyvanse been working all day for your son, or is it wearing off by the evening?
I've got calls into psychiatrists, but can't get in with anyone so far. Waiting lists are 2-3 months long!

 

[mstang67chic]

First of all, what your easy child said to the CPS made me laugh out loud. Good Girl!!!! Not a funny situation but gotta love her spunk!!

Sounds like your counselor is on the ball. I can understand your husband's denial to a point but he's got to get his head out of the sand. Personally, when emailing the pictures to the counselor for the appointment, I wouldn't say anything about not discussing them with your husband. If the pictures are another indicator of why Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is needed, your husband NEEDS TO KNOW THIS and why. Maybe tell the counselor if he thinks they are just boys being boys pictures (but I doubt he will), ok, don't mention them then. Your husband needs a huge wake up call and maybe the verbal equivelant of a slap upside the head. If difficult child's past behavior hasn't been enough for the man to see there is a problem, maybe the counselor can make it clear.


If that doesn't do it though, you will have to do what you need to do to keep the other kids safe. If that means leaving, you have to do it. I'm not in any way saying that your difficult child is a lost cause but he needs treatment. If husband won't do it and you and the other kids stay, something else WILL happen and it could be something very, very tragic.

But, fingers crossed that husband will get a clue at the counseling appointment. Please let us know how it goes. HUGS.

 

[graceupongrace]

Burndoubt,

Vyvanse has been very effective in helping difficult child focus at school. I give it to him when he first gets up (around 6:30 or 7), and it starts to wear off around 6 p.m., so then I give him 10 mg of methylphenidate (generic of Ritalin). We tried Concerta, which only seemed to last until 2 or 3 p.m. difficult child says he feels better on the Vyvanse too. He's never had hyperactivity issues, but impulse control is a big issue. When I hear the tone of voice (and the vloume!) change early in the evening, it's a reminder that it's time for medications. Now there's a different kind of biological clock -- LOL!

Sorry for not remembering, but who's prescribing the medications now? Our psychiatrist had a 2-3 month wait too, but therapist called in a favor and got difficult child an appointment in about a month. psychiatrist is very thorough, and on the conservative side when it comes to medications.

Hope your day went better!

Grace

 

[Marguerite]

difficult child's counselor called (FINALLY!!) last night. He's reccomending putting difficult child in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC)!

YES! About flamin' time, though. I've had the feeling that the therapist has been in denila also, but ten if all the therapist hears is husband's assurances that it's not that bad, then I can't be too dritical of the therapist.

I do understand why you've asked the therapist to not say anything to husband. A good therapist will be able to take te knowledge on board without breaching your confidentiality. Should this be necessary? Of course not. But you are trying to save this man you love, trying to get protection for yourself and your girls and eventually also trying to get some help for this very damaged boy.

I think some members here are worried that those three aims cannot be achieved together. Something is going to have to give, people perceive. I can't say whether or not they are right. All I know is, you are trying to walk a tightrope and trying to do it while keeping your family safe. Not everyone can walk a tightrope, not everybody should. YOu have your reasons, we have to respect this so we can still be there for you regardless of what we may or may not feel about your choices. We are not in your exact shoes.

It does sound, though, that something is giving at last. If this "wonderful" therapist is to be the one telling husband that his beloved boy needs help, then maybe husband will finally accept that it's not just stepmother jealousy (which the boy has undoubtedly convinced him). Of course husband loves his son and feels guilty for anything bad that may have happened to him. He should equally love and want to protect his daughters. And I don't think it really matters that difficult child's victim is not a full-blood sister - I think from what you've described, he would be a perp on a full sister just as readily as a half-sister.

For those of you who feel that therapist should divulge knowledge of the drawings to husband - think carefully about this. How did therapist find out about them? First, husband gave clear instructions to have them thrown away by difficult child. So Burndoubt not only went against husband's instructions in fishing them out of the garbage (and possibly in husband's mind showing disloyalty as well as being underhand and possibly risknig aggravating the problem if difficult child finds his old drawings and is agian 'exposed' to their content) but to husband, it shows that Burndoubt is not letting this go, not joining husband in his attempts to make allthis go away by pretending it's not going on (husband's apparent main coping strategy here).

To husband - this is extreme disloyalty and will undermine a great deal of the trust betwween them that is needed AT THIS POINT. Maybe later on, when husband is saying, "We should have shown those drawings to therapist, I wish we hadn't thrown them away. I didn't even look at them, all I know is they were bad and now it's too late, we can't show people the early evidence," THAT is when Burndoubt can say, "Funny you should say that..."

Also, to step in and admit that this has been done, takes the onus away from husband to finally honestly confront his own demons. If husband can come out by himself and mention these drawings to therapist, then it means he has taken a HUGE step towards accepting his own son's problems and therefore working towards at last getting the boy the REAL help he needs (not the namby pamby 'poor little love, let's be kind to him and pretend he didn't do anything really nasty.')

So Burndoubt, if I had been in your shoes I would have done the same thing. I recommend you scan EVERYTHING of relevance and then keep back-ups of those files on your memory stick. It's always a good idea, especially in any situation where you might need to up stakes and just run (even if it's just form another house fire) to keep good back-ups of vital documents AWAY from the house. Your locker at work is a good place. I saw a thing on Oprah where a woman who was planning to leave her dangerously violent husband spent some time getting copies of vital stuff such as bank account details, social security info, health records, insurance papers, registration papers - and because her husband had already come very close to killing her for the slightest things, she made sure all such copies were kept at work in the care of a co-worker (in case he came to work and searched his wife's stuff).

Of course you're not planning to leave your husband - you love him and want to make this work. So you may not think you need to do any of this. He certianly doesn't sound anything like the husband described on Oprah, anyway. But the sheer physical danger at your house (as demonstrated by the recent fire) as well as the risk of husband or difficult child finding the files and opening them - you don't want that, not unless it's on YOUR terms.

So make your plans. Think of it as protection for both you and husband, because if you house burns down next time you will find it VERY useful to be able to print off acopy of your household insurance policy, from your back-up files at work.

Marg

 

[Burndoubt]

*Sends along a HUGE hug to Marg*
THANK you!!!
You have a beautiful grace and kindness in your words. I truly hope I can be as wise and caring as you in helping others someday.

(Until then, I'll be popping Valium tabs out of my Donald Duck Pez dispenser.)

But once I can stand up and say 'I lived through it!', I really hope I can help others as much as you've helped me through these last few days.
Thank you!

 

[Burndoubt]

Thanks to you too, Mstang & Grace! *hugs & cookies all around*
Okay, guys, husband just sat difficult child & me down for a talk a bit ago. Was very proud of how well he handled extremely difficult words. Ultimately (as far as where difficult child goes), it's up to husband, but he told difficult child that if his counselor recommends Residential Treatment Center (RTC), he'll have to take it as an informed decision and seriously consider what to do & where to go from there. He stated (to difficult child) that we're both scared, ALL scared of what may come next from difficult child, and that it's not right that his sisters should HAVE to be scared of him. Not right that he treats ME like he does. husband told difficult child that I should receive at LEAST the same respect he should give husband, if not MORE.
Wow. I guess husband really has been listening. I felt so proud that he stood up for us. I know it was hard, not to stand up, but to have to do it to your own son who just doesn't get it. He says (when prompted) he's sorry. When asked what that means, he just doesn't know. He knows what he's supposed to say, but doesn't truly understand why. It's heartbreaking.
Anyway, the appointment with-the counselor is @8:15 tomorrow morning. Please keep us in your prayers/good thoughts!
Goodnight!

 

[Marguerite]

Sending good thoughts.

Way To Go, husband.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

WOW!!

I am proud of husband!! It really is terribly difficult to deal with all of this.

I think you are doing the best you can to help your daughters. And that is great.

It relieves me to hear that 5yo is in your room at night. I think we spent a good 6 months with Jessie in our BED. Part of this was actually while Wiz was in the psychiatric hospital. she had panic attacks and it was so hard to watch.

If Jessie didn't feel at least me pressed up against her she woke in a cold sweat.

We also couldn't get Wiz into the psychiatric hospital overnight. I think it took a week or so, with all the approvals, finding a longer term bed (I say psychiatric hospital, because techinically that is what it was, but kids were there far longer than the 3-5 day stay that seems more typical. One of the boys in the psychiatric hospital was going on over 2 YEARS in that facility!)

As for your 10yo - awesome spirit!! Too cool!! Just be sure to give an approval to the counsellor at school to see her for help, or get her into a therapist. It probably would be a good idea to see if the therapist that difficult child sees has a colleague that could treat the girls. anytime there is this kind of trauma in a family it is a good idea to at least let the girls know that counselling is there for them too.

I really MEANT what I said. I support you 110%. It is so very clear that you love your daus and your husband. And that you even care for difficult child in spite of his scary actions.

I am relieved to see you put safety measures into place. You can even put an alarm on a door very easily and inexpensively. I had some put up to keep wiz out of the room the other 2 shared. I don't think the alarms I put up were even $10 total.

I hope the counselling went very well today. I also hope that you and husband can see a therapist to work through all the feelings that you are EACH going through.

I am so very sorry you had a bad experience at the DV place you sought help at. That is heartbreaking. I do understand why you don't want to expose your kids after what seems to be a horrible experience.

Sending a basket of my most gentle hugs! You just reach in and pull one out - then you are wrapped in a feeling of warmth, comfort, and support. And your hugs are extra special - each one comes with 15 minutes of peace and quiet to enjoy a cup of coffee, tea or whatever you like to drink.

And the lavendar hugs are special - they let you get a good night's sleep and let EVERYONE in the house sleep peacefully!

 

[svengandhi]

Peronally, I have some seven letter suggestions for you - DIVORCE for you, THERAPY for your daughters.

This boy is not your biochild and I can see getting involved if his dad was, but it seems he is tossing all of the burdens of the boy on you.

Your 5 year old has not forgotten the molestation and if your older girl knows about it, she's probably just figuring she's next. Last 7 letter word - PROTECT yourself and your girls. They are your priority.

I read somewhere that experts now think that Ted Bundy may have begun killing girls when he was as young as 14.