Update (white flag waiving...)

[Stella Johnson]

Maybe seeing the real world for a little while will change his tune in some way. Never know, he may chicken out on moving out altogether. Seems if he were that serious he would have already left. Maybe?

Sorry to hear you and wife are having so many problems because of difficult child. difficult child's really put a strain on any relationship. :sad:

steph

 

[Mikey]

Steph, re: "difficult child's really put a strain on any relationship".

And all God's people said AMEN!

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

DDD:

Even though he's crossed the line, what makes it really hard is that it hasn't been a constant dose of difficult child attitude. It would be easier on me and wife if he was just always evil, but instead he throws his bile at us in waves, kind of like a a stomach flu that never quite goes away. Eventually, it just wears you down.

But there are also times when I still see the kid I love. I got home late the other night, and came quietly up the stairs so as not to wake wife. When I got to the first landing on the stairs I could see McWeedy in my room. He was tucking her in to bed, and then gave her a kiss and left. I let him leave without seeing me.

When I went in, I realized that she was already asleep. It's almost like he couldn't possibly tell or show her that he loved her, but felt compelled to demonstrate his love, if only in secret.

And yet, this is the same kid that completely "dissed" her on Mothers day by going out and getting stoned when she begged him not to - she only wanted one sober day with him for Mother's day. But he still snuck out, got stoned, and then didn't show when it was time to take her to dinner. She called him to try and get him to go with us; long story short - the call ended with him telling her that he'd rather be stoned and hang out with his stoner buddies than give her one good day and 4 hours of his time on Mother's Day.

That evening, I would have killed him if I could have found him. Well, not really, but his arm might have needed a cast. There have been waves of that kind of behavior, interspersed with the occasional kindness when he thinks we don't see him. I know his psychiatric says it isn't intentional, that it's just the way an addict functions. But it FEELS intentional, and I've tried to explain to him how much it hurts.
:hammer:I might as well try and explain calculus to a snail, for all the good it did me.

I can understand him trying to hurt me. After all, I'm the bad guy trying to kick him out. But to disrespect and hurt his mother that way? Repeatedly? And then not understand when I've had enough of his horse-puckey and tell him it's time to find his own life? Blech!

I think that most of my anger stems from his cruddy treatment of the woman I love, and her continued devotion to him even to the point of threatening our marriage. It's hard - damn hard - not to hate someone for doing that, even your own child and despite his being an addict. But I try. I'm not very hopeful, though, and I feel that the darkest part of this journey has yet to be travelled.

They say God works miracles. Maybe so, but I think He'll need to whip up a double-strength miracle delivered by St. Peter himself to keep things from spiralling off the tracks.

I guess it could happen, though. So here's to miracles, and those that believe in them. I'll try to be one, or at least "act as if" I do.

:angel:

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you see happening if you actually do force him out of the house?</div></div>

At the time I said it, I truly intened to have him depart in January. But at this point, I think he's leaving the house regardless of what I do. Like I said before - I was manipulated into feeding him the raw anger and emotion he wanted so he could use that as an excuse to leave and completely go off the deep end.

In any case, no matter why or when he leaves, it'll be my fault. And if/when that happens, I doubt that my marriage will survive. If anything happens to McWeedy once he's wanderin' out in the world, it'll only reinforce wife's conviction that I was a jackass and forced him out into a situation where he got hurt (or worse).

Even if nothing happens, he'll drink the very dregs of worst part of society once he leaves. Knowing he's gone, knowing what he's doing, and knowing that he has very little immediate chance at success will eat away at my beloved wife. The truth of him bringing it on himself will be outweighed by her belief that I forced him into a life situation where he has no chance to succeed. I still lose.

Doesn't look very promising.

So I'll try to work the first three steps of the Nar-Anon program until I truly believe them:

1: We admitted we were powerless over the Addict -- that our lives have become unmanageable.

2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

#1's a piece of cake for me now. #2 is a stretch, but I might get there eventually (and good medications are always helpful when it comes to sanity, too :smile: ). And if I can get #3, then I'll be okay, regardless of anything else that may occur. But in truth I dunno what'll happen. Three months is a long time in the nightmare land of difficult child parenting.

Mikey

 

[meowbunny]

Mikey, I don't think I've ever felt so bad for anyone in my life. Your pain is truly palpable.

To me, McWeedy is no longer a factor. He will move out. He will join the druggie life. Whether he stays with it or not is another question. For many middle class kids, that life is super so long as there is a place of comfort to go to at the end of the binge. So, he may discover he hates his life and actually try to do something about it. However, he may also get or even be so deep into it that he can't get out. Sadly, this is a wait and see thing.

What hurts is that wife won't see how she is being manipulated and puts the blame on you. From this seat, I think more of the blame belongs on her. You have tried to stop it and to get him help. She has let him do the same thing over and over. The miracle I wish for you is that she see the truth before it is too late. That she realize that children leave the nest no matter what the reason but that her mate committed to a lifetime and is there for her.

You truly don't deserve what is going on. Dancer and Sarge don't deserve it. McWeedy has pretty much picked his bed and, sadly, your wife is making it. Again, I am so sorry.

At this point, I think all that can be offered is a shoulder for you lean on (and cry on when wanted), a ear to listen and a friend to be here for you. May there be some peace in all of this soon.

 

[TYLERFAN]

Hi Mikey:

It is a process for us all, you, McWeedy, wife.....I am glad you have realized you are powerless over the addict, that is a major step. :bravo: Not an easy step, but a necessary one.
I am really sorry that you and wife are not on the same page. It makes things harder, for you and her. She isn't ready yet, and as a mother who also took a long time to be ready, I can understand......She may come around eventually.
McWeedy, like so many of our darling difficult child's, are convinced about how great and easy life would be if we didn't have to live under the dictatorship of our parents.....It just ain't so. And in December, McWeedy will get to see for real how it is on the "outside".
Mikey, my difficult child went thru stuff a young girl should NOT have to bear....I still credit the day I let go, as the day she started to stand. It did not happen right away, she came home a few times, it never worked out. Now, at 22, difficult child is sober only 90 days, has moved more times than I can keep track of and is now hopefully going to be in charge of a sober house on her own. :smile: I hope it works out for her. I have her son, for at least the next 3 years..... :bravo: He's so cute :rofl:
And I will keep him out of the fray as long as I can, hopefully until he is grown.
He is still only 18, he's young and immature and will be for years to come. I hope your marraige can survive the differences of opinion you two have......you and wife. It's amazing how a difficult child can triangulate a marraige.
Be well my friend and keep us posted. "keep coming back" as they say....Glad you went to NA.

Blessings to you and your family,
Melissa :angel:

 

[KFld]

Oh Mikey, I'm so so sorry!!!
My husband and I were kind of in the same place, but not to the extent of you and wife, when we discovered our sons drug addiction. I took both of us going to alanon to be able to get on the same page. I was the one who said I could never throw our son out, no matter what he did, and in the end I was the one who did it. Fortunatley at that point husband and I were on the same page and were able to rally together and support each other.

I do believe your wife knows this is what has to happen, but it eases her guilt by putting the blame on you, which is totally unfair and will do so much harm to your marriage. It was the hardest thing I ever did in my life to throw my son out. I still remember standing there watching him pack, and he only had about an hours notice that he was leaving. I still remember standing in the front hallway and hugging him and telling him that I loved him with all my heart, but I couldn't continue to watch what he was doing to himself. If I could have, I would have loved to have put the blame on someone else as he walked out that door. In the end, it was the best thing we ever did for him, though we couldn't see that at the moment.

Your wife is worried about your son going to college and being successful, but she has to see it's not happening while he's living at home, so him leaving isn't going to make a bit of difference. You said he's skipping school all the time, so he probably won't even graduate highschool at this point, never mind go onto college, until he makes some choices, no matter where he is living.

I know you also see this, but your son is getting exactly what he wants. He is pitting you against his mother and he is winning. He's probably hoping that you will get so fed up with it, that you will move out and he'll be the one ending up staying causing chaos for the rest of the family.

I don't know what the answer to all of this is. I wish she could see where my son is now. Believe me, he's not living the life I dreamed of for him, but he is one year clean, healthy, happy, working full time, has his own apartment, and he's only 20. It was a long road for him, but one he never would have followed if we had allowed him to continue to live home and ruin all of our lives. The best thing is, he knows this and he thanks us for it. I hear him telling other people now that he didn't get it until he started listening to what everyone else was telling him and learned he didn't have all the answers.

We hope you keep posting. Don't ever feel you have to raise the white flag. We never say things so that we can say, we told you so. We say things from experience and things that we know have worked.

 

[BusynMember]

I don't know your situation well either, other than these posts. I had a seriously drug abusing daughter. Once she was kicked out, she turned her life around. She's 23 now and her current thing is that she's seriously into health food and exercise and healthy living. She has a nice boyfriend and a good job. And this kid had shot up heroin a few times! I don't know if you believe your son only smokes pot or not, but, if you do think so, I don't. My guess is he is doing far more than you know. I'm sorry about your wife. I disagree with her. I feel that enabling him will give him even more of a reason to keep abusing drugs. I send you prayers and hugs.

 

[Mrs Smith]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you see happening if you actually do force him out of the house?</div></div>
At the time I said it, I truly intened to have him depart in January. But at this point, I think he's leaving the house regardless of what I do. Like I said before - I was manipulated into feeding him the raw anger and emotion he wanted so he could use that as an excuse to leave and completely go off the deep end.

In any case, no matter why or when he leaves, it'll be my fault. And if/when that happens, I doubt that my marriage will survive. If anything happens to McWeedy once he's wanderin' out in the world, it'll only reinforce wife's conviction that I was a jackass and forced him out into a situation where he got hurt (or worse).

Even if nothing happens, he'll drink the very dregs of worst part of society once he leaves. Knowing he's gone, knowing what he's doing, and knowing that he has very little immediate chance at success will eat away at my beloved wife. The truth of him bringing it on himself will be outweighed by her belief that I forced him into a life situation where he has no chance to succeed. I still lose.</div></div>

You only lose in the short term. Since you've stuck it out this long, it's a good sign that you'll probably make it. Hopefully when wife sees what life is like without the turmoil and how much it was affecting Dancer, Sarge and your marriage, she'll start to see the damage for what it really is.

 

[hearthope]

So sorry for your pain Mikey.

I just want to share this to give you a glimmer of hope ~

I was your wife in the beginning of my son's drug use. My husband (stepdad)finally put his foot down and said enough it is time for him to go. I stood firm against him and said he would go before I let my son go. We arrived at the doorstep of divorce.

Looking back I blamed his relationship, or lack of, with my son as the cause of my son's actions. I was wrong. I was putting the blame on him to take the blame off myself.

Once I took a stand against my son and drew the line he jumped at the chance to cross it, this put the blame for anything that happened to him to be my fault for making him leave. MANY times I got the call that I didn't love him and this wouldn't be happening to him if I hadn't made him leave.

Today, husband and I are closer than we have ever been. My son reached his bottom and has blessed my heart by thanking me for what I did and acknowledging that he understands why I did it and that it was in love for him that I stood against the wrong he was doing.

Mikey never lose hope, this is a process. Each of us go thru it at different speeds.


((((HUGS))))) for you and your family



Traci

 

[TYLERFAN]

Mikey:

I wanted to say one more thing...about FEAR.
Your wife, if she is feeling anything like I did, fears that difficult child will Die out there....This is a real picture in her mind....of having to get the "call", go to the morgue, etc. I am sorry to be so morbid, but I know that the biggest thing that kept me
"holding on" to difficult child was the fear of her death. Ask many people here, I would come here in the middle of the night, picturing my child dead in a ditch.....Thankfully, these wonderful people showed me that difficult child's are so very capable of keeping themselves alive.....Note: I didn't say "well", I said "alive" :hypnosis:
I am sure you are probably having these kind of fears as well...
they are hard to overcome, and one of the things one MUST do in order to let go.
For me, I pictured myself giving God my child.....Putting her in his arms. Whatever works for you. I am very sorry wife won't even consider joining you on the same page, you have to save yourself Mikey.

Blessings,
Melissa

 

[PonyGirl]

Here's a lil nugget to crunch on.....You'll be blamed for when/if difficult child fails miserably after leaving home....On the chance that he 'wakes up and flies right' upon leaving, will you also get the credit?!
:warrior:

Most of us who have tossed out our difficult child's have said it was the best thing we could've done for them. They were forced to face life on life's terms, they finally realized they were on a one-way street to nowheresville, they began to make positive changes.

There's nothing stopping this from being the case with your mcWeedy. Of course we prepare for the worst when they leave the nest, and undoubtedly there will be a falling off. But ultimately, when he leaves home is when he will begin to realize how smart and loving you really are.

And that will also be 'your fault'!! :angel:

Peace

 

[DDD]

Yes, I understand. DDD

 

[susiestar]

Mikey,

I understand how lonely it feels to be the one who "over-exaggerates" and is "hysterical and unrealistic" about the problems.

I was this person when my bro used alcohol and drugs in high school. I was still this person when he he used htem in college. I was the person who did all this when he was a married dry drunk with major anger problems.

2 years later we were mending our relationship. 3 yrs later he still thinks I should not have reported him to CPS. But I know, and my husband knows, and finally my other relatives know that he would not have gotten help if I didn't.

My extended family thought I was this hysterical person when I said my difficult child has serious issues. That it was not just a phase, or just boys being boys. I faced this with my husband when difficult child was a toddler. Then he got on board, as much as he could. Extended family was horrified when we took difficult child to a pshosp for a 4 month stay. Only partway through the stay did they finally see what horrible things he had been doing.

Stay strong, go to NA meetings, al-anon meetings, and whatever else is helpful. You know the truth.

I am so sorry you are in this position, it is never fun or easy.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[nvts]

Hi! I don't know you from other than your current post so I apologize if I offend.

1. Seems like McWeedy set himself up for January. The sooner he sees what the real world is like, without a bed with clean sheets, a lock on the door, 3 squares a day and wife doing the laundry the sooner he'll pull his head out of his hind quarters.

2. wife needs to wake up. If he's actively drinking and smoking (and whatever) giving him money for college is going to give him a dorm room to drink and smoke (and whatever) without worrying about rent. He's not sounding like he's going to go to college to be truly studious.

3. By making you the bad guy, wife is abdicating all "blame" to you. If he od's, has an asthma attack, stubs his toe, it'll be your fault. She's afraid of feeling guilty for a decision that could result in McWeedy getting hurt. But the only way his garbage is going to stop, is if he bottoms out. They don't call it bottoming out because it's a great place to be. If it was they'd call it Bermuda.

4. I (although I don't know you) admire your fortitude. Athough to McWeedy and wife you may sound like a control freak, but to me you sound like someone who wants to put some order to chaos.

Just my 2 cents! :smile:

Again, I hope I didn't offend!

Beth

 

[flutterbee]

Mikey,

I don't post on this board often because I don't have a teenager with a substance abuse problem. However, I'm not a stranger to substance abuse. I was raised with it in my home and in my family. That's another reason why I don't post here too often. My personal experience has left it's mark and I don't feel I can be objective nor very sympathetic as I tend to view this issue as it affected me as a child with no control over what was happening to me and around me.

But, that is exactly why I'm responding now. I have followed as you have chronicled your journey with McWeedy. You have a way of expressing yourself that really invites the reader into your life. As Meowbunny stated, your pain is palpable and I am so deeply saddened that this is where things stand for you right now.

I wonder if wife would be willing to listen to others who have lived with a sibling who abused drugs and how it affected their lives....a teenager or an adult 'survivor'. I don't know if you contacted Al-Ateen (is that what it's called?) if they might be able to give you some guidance in that direction. I just think it is very important for wife to understand how letting McWeedy continue his behavior in your home could effect Dancer.

I get the feeling that wife is focused on her child 'in need' and is so wrapped up in trying to help him that she can't see the potential fall out. Dancer seems to be maintaining well (for now at least) so it's easy to not see the potential damage being done. She's focused on the squeaky wheel, so to speak.

Just a thought I had. My thoughts are with you.

 

[BusynMember]

If he is doing ANY drugs at all, he won't last in college. Not only will be fail and be set up to fail, drugs flow freely in college dorms. There is no supervision. Your wife is still hoping your son is her dream child. He's not. He's his own person with special problems. She's afraid that throwing him out is giving up on his future? He almost died. Right now, if you DON'T force him out of the hearth and make him possibly wake up and change he may not have any future at all. I agree with you. I wouldn't let guilt about what wife says change your stance. She isn't thinking of helping him, in my opinion. She doesn't think like an addict. My daughter's advice to everyone is, "Never trust a drug addict."

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Your wife is still hoping your son is her dream child. He's not. He's his own person with special problems.</div></div>
MWM, I have to disagree with you there. I don't think wife has any illusions about McWeedy's so-called life, or his dubious ability to manage it. She's well aware of all the problems and pitfalls. It's more about fear, control, and letting go for her.

She doesn't think that the next JFK will suddently emerge from him like a butterfly from a chrysalis. I think it's more likely that she still won't admit that he's an addict, and that this is just a "phase", and she wants to keep him safe until he "grows out of it".

He IS an addict, so says his psychiatric from the drug study. And he won't just "grow out of it". Even if he weren't drugging, he'd still be a difficult child because all the men in my family are difficult child's to some degree. And as a general rule, we don't mature until sometime after our 30th birthday. That said, the drugging only guarantees that his maturation process will be retarded, if not outright stunted.

I'm a big SciFi fan, and Isaac Asimov wrote a series of books about robots and the "Three Laws of Robotics" that governed robot behavior, that went something like this:

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

However, it was later revealed that the robots themselves had envisioned a "zeroth" law that came before the first law, that said "a robot must not merely act in the interests of individual humans, but of all humanity." In such a case, a robot could then allow a human to be harmed, as long as the greater good of humananity was served.

What does this have to do with drugging teens? The first step of NarAnon is to admit that you are powerless to control the addict. There are an additional 11 steps to the program. However, I too think there is a "zeroth" step that precedes the first step. Before you can admit you're powerless to contol an addict, you must first acknowledge and accept that your loved one actually is an addict.

And that's where my beloved wife, and so many others I've spoken to, fall down. It's why my first shot at NarAnon didn't work. If you're not willing to believe that your son is an addict, how can you acknowledge that you have no control over his addiction?

Okay, I'm way off the beaten path, but it's how I feel. I had to get to the point where I truly believe McWeedy was an addict before I could take the next step. And so will wife, eventually (Hopefully?).

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

Hi Heather. Thank you for your reply, and your offer. But as I've said before, I'm the only one in this car on the ride.

I can't get wife to admit (and act like) McWeedy is an addict with serious problems. Problems, yes, addict, no. And any attempt I make to push the subject is rebuffed. She also resents the fact that I post here, and feels that it's a waste of my time.

So, unfortunately, I don't think she'd be receptive to any information, emails, or other contact from members here like yourself. It's like I said in my previous post: to work the NarAnon program, before you get to step one you have to admit that the person you love actually IS an addict, which she won't do. That said, until she comes to that realization on her own she won't be receptive to anything anyone here has to say.

I hope to start my first NarAnon meeting on Monday, and I expect to catch hell from her for going. But I'm doing it for me. I post here because it's cathartic and theraputic; putting my thoughts and feelings into words forces me to evaluate them, understand them, and acknowledge them. Again, it's something I do for me. But she doesn't see it that way. Talk is a waste of time for her. Talking about problems that "don't exist" is beyond a waste.

Maybe, one day, if she ever gets past the zeroth step and actually seeks out help, she may come here and participate. Until then, you're stuck with my ugly mug and nothing else.

:crazy:

Mikey

 

[susiestar]

Hey, Mikey!

(Ok, that's out of my system now)

We are glad to have you here. Your wife will be welcome if she decides to join us, but we like you, just for yourself.

Stick around, or come and go, just remember we are here.

Hugs,

Susie