Update (white flag waiving...)

[flutterbee]

Mikey, I think you misunderstood my post. I was suggesting she talk to someone more along Dancer's age...slightly older, maybe 17 or 18 who has been there done that...or have some information presented to her. I don't know if any of the groups for children/teens with family members with substance abuse issues have pamphlets that explain or bullet point what it's like to be the non-drugging child in the home. I was thinking more along the lines of a peer of Dancer's...someone closer in age to Dancer so wife could relate it back to your daughter.

I understand that wife doesn't see McWeedy as an addict at this point in time. However, one does not have to be a full blown addict in order for his drugging behavior to have a profound effect on others within the family.

I guess I'm thinking of how to help wife change her focus from 'saving' McWeedy from himself to protecting Dancer. If McWeedy does indeed move out in January, that problem will take care of itself. I'm thinking that if wife understands the effect this could possibly have on Dancer she may come to change her view on McWeedy leaving home.

 

[Sunlight]

dear Mikey's wife:
you are killing your son. he is not college material unless you consider Animal House. by you not backing his father's authority, you are teaching your son to defy all males. you are teaching him that women are weak and will baby him, he will learn to manipulate woman all his life and he will have you to thank for that. you are teaching him not to grow up. you are castrating your husband.

God ordered the man to be the head of the house. women are to follow them if they are being loving and kind and good rulers. you do not get to override your spouse by putting him in the dog house every time he tries to exercise his God given right to father his son.

when your son is in jail from his actions, guards will not baby him. strangers will not step up to the plate for him. Your son is a manipulative spoiled brat.

you should kiss your husband's B U T T for his supportive efforts in trying to be the man of the house.

by the way I know you will not read this. I just feel better having said it.

 

[susiestar]

Mikey, I stand behind antsmom. This is what we would love to tell your wife. I know she will not read it, not even if you print it and leave it on the kitchen table. However, I do have a couple more things to say to your wife:

You are neglecting Dancer. She feels (and is) unsafe in her own home. difficult child abuses her. His loyalty is only to the drugs. He will steal from her (probab ly has and she doesn't want tosay anything to rock the boat).

Dancer not only feels unsafe but also devalued. She is not worth what her drugging, misbehaving, hateful difficult child brother is.

If she was worth anything to you, you would PROTECT HER. Instead you expose her to the drugs and unsafe behaviors on a regular basis.

She is wondering if she will be more of value to you if SHE starts smoking pot and using other drugs.

I know this. I WAS Dancer. She is not thinking about the next thing, but you might:

What will happen if her bros friends come over and get out of hand when you are not home. Will he try to give her to a friend for more drugs? It does happen. Can she fight them off, or will she have to survive rape in addition to difficult child and hi sdrugs?

(Mikey, this is something you might watn to talk to Dancer about. The whole thing, I mean. I WAS Dancer, and it DID happen to me. Please protect your little girl!)

 

[jbrain]

I agree with ant's mom except for the part about God ordering man to be head of the house--I think that's something men thought up...could we please keep religious views out of this? Not all of us have the same religious views and we could get sidetracked by it.
Thanks,
Jane

 

[saving grace]

Mikey this is not my usual approach and I will apologize upfront if I offend you or anyone else but as I read your posts I got increasingly angry and confused. 3 years ago I went through the same thing that you are, I tried everything, every approach, every thing I could think of to talk him out of it, to change him, to make him see the light. I even kicked him out convinced that a night on the street would make him see what he was like and he would come beggin for a place to stay swearing he would change. Didnt happen Mikey, nope he got worse, everything I did came back and slapped me in the face.

Heres my 2 cents.

Let him go! NOW, what the heck is he waiting for. wife is looking at this with blinders on, she is enabling him. He will NOT grow out of it. If he is going to OD or have an asthma attack he will have it, SHE can not save his life. He is not willing to change, he does not want your help he does not deserve to lay his head down on a pillow in your home safe and warm and fed while treating his privilage this way. Who the H*** does he think he is?? He is walking all over your family, and your letting him.

I have been there. My son returned to my doorstep beaten, in his boxers and a tshirt, strungout and sick and smelling of urine asking for help, that is when I let him take a shower, fed him and let him sleep while I called detoxes, I woke him up and drove him there and dropped him off. He has been here ever since. That was a year ago, he relapsed a few months after being here, I gave him a choice, he chose a program and has been in this program since Februray used in June only once and has been clean ever since.

I dont believe in "rock bottom" but your son is a brat, he knows that he can do and say whatever he wants and get away with it. give me a break he was told he has to leave but not until December?? Get Out now if you think you can do better on your own. He doesnt know how good he has it. Your wife needs to take her blinders off. She is not helping him she is killing him.

SOrry

Grace

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Mikey! Dude.

I was without the net for a few days. Sure. You pick THEN to post.

Let me break it down for ya.

First of all, take the white flag, use it to make a nice bandana or a dustrag or something. White flags are for quitters.

Ok, on with the show. The name of the play is: Drugs are stupid.

The cast:

Mikey: Head of household. Trying to hold the house together, or get rid of what does not work.

wife: wants it to work NO MATTER WHAT. If not, well heck, it is not going to be HER fault.

Sarge: Got the heck out of Dodge. Pretty POd at McWeedy right now.

MccWeedy: Druggie. Rebel without a clue. Loves his mama. His dad is SO mean.

Dancer: She is screwed if she is around McWeedy much longer.



Mikey, McWeedy is playing games, and does not care one way or the other what happens as long as he gets high. wife wants to bury her head in the sand and make all the bad go away. You want to fix things and protect your daughter. You want McWeedy out of the house. He has no business in your house. Your wife has no business not backing you up on your decision (although I don't think it has as much to do with you being a male as it has to do with you being correct).

I think that a very clear message needs to be sent, one that is not getting through.

Take Dancer, and leave the house. Does not have to be permanent.

Don't hate me for suggesting that. Or, go ahead and hate me. It will give YOU some sanity. it will give your daughter some sanity. And it will give you a chance to be away from wife to think for awhile. Most importantly, wife will get the message.

Praying for you guys all the time.

 

[KFld]

I think that is the best suggestion I have heard yet. This way wife gets her way in having all the say in what McWeedy is and isn't allowed to do, and your easy child daughter will no longer have to be effected by all of this. She is the one who is being caused the most harm at this point by having to live in a situation she has absolutley no control over.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take Dancer, and leave the house. Does not have to be permanent....</div></div>
For many varied and personal reasons, not an option. Period. I may end up getting the boot, or leaving on my own (even Dancer is starting to get tired of me holding a firm line with McWeedy). But me leaving with Dancer would only lead to very, very bad things where nobody would benefit - least of all my daughter.

Not angry, though, BBK. I know you speak your mind and your heart, and I've always appreciated what you had to say. Don't stop because you think you're going to hurt my feelings. Had I taken the advice you and others offered at the beginning, I might not be in the pickle I'm in now.

Water under the bridge, though. But thanks for the comments. Keep 'em coming, I appreciate them all.

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that is the best suggestion I have heard yet. This way wife gets her way in having all the say in what McWeedy is and isn't allowed to do, and your easy child daughter will no longer have to be effected by all of this. She is the one who is being caused the most harm at this point by having to live in a situation she has absolutley no control over. </div></div>
Karen, Dancer may be the one getting the short end of this deal, for sure. But what I don't understand is that she's starting to take McWeedy's side against me. She's not endorsing, approving, or emulating anything he's doing - just the opposite, she hates drugs and what they're doing. But I think that she loves her brother (he is loveable, in his own way). I think that wife's attitude is starting to take root with her, and I think she's tired of the conflict between me and McWeedy - which causes conflict between me and wife, with Sarge stalking around the perimeter throwing in the occasional (but well placed) poison dart.

What truly scares me is that Dancer may become rebellious against me - not because she might become a substance abuser, but because of how she views my treatment of her brother. If she starts to think I'm the nazi McWeedy wants the world to believe I am, then I may in fact be the one leaving the home.

There wouldn't be much left then, would there?

But hope springs eternal, and I am drawn to the more melodramatic themes in life. Most likely, it's just Dancer finally starting to act like an angry teenager, and she has a built-in excuse.

We'll see how it goes.

Mikey

 

[flutterbee]

I think, more likely, it's not so much defense of her brother. She's the 'family fixer' as you state in your sig and by not allowing McWeedy to drug and abuse you in your home, you are creating conflict. Dancer just wants everything to be peaceful and calm and 'why can't we just all get along' kinda thing. She's too young to understand that that isn't always possible nor healthy.

 

[judi]

Mikey - I'm so sorry you are back with a not so good update. Dealing with our son for a long while (he's now 22), has strained our marriage. We have been together for 30 years (gee am I old or what?) and married for almost 28 years now. We have finally agreed to disagree about our son. We both love him so much but we can't help him. However, with him (and his chaos) out of our house, we are free to enjoy the rare times that we see and talk with him. I know that he knows we love him very much but doubt if he admits it anytime soon - lol!

Please take care - even our difficult children do grow up! They don't always mature at our pace but they do grow!

 

[susiestar]

Mikey,

wynter nailed it about what your daughter is doing. I WAS Dancer, though not as sweet, and I kept encouraging everyone to just get along. I was in the middle of a whole lot of cr#$ and I didn't want it to fall on me.

You are the parent, it is up to you to do what is in her best interest. ONLY you know what that is, so follow your heart and that gut instinct.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[ck1]

(even Dancer is starting to get tired of me holding a firm line with McWeedy).

Really??? What firm line? From reading your posts, it seems that McWeedy is still running the show?

I have a question...if you had an employee reporting to you who wasn't doing a good job. He was coming in late, not doing what was expected of him, bad attitude, etc. would you fire him? Yes!!! but would you fire him now and tell him it will be effective three to four months from now??? Why would someone do that? It wouldn't motivate this employee to do a good job at your company and certainly wouldn't prepare him for future employment. It would tell him he can keep doing what he wants and continue getting paid, and probably when three or four months comes along, he'll get another extension.

One more thing, I have gotten very angry with my husband because I think he is way too hard on difficult child. I don't know if you've seen my posts or not, but my difficult child is 16 and has been out of our home since July 29th. At first I blamed it on husband. He brought the bottom up to difficult child knowing that we had to get difficult child more help. Also, when we had our first detention hearing, we were given two choices. difficult child could return home or go to a shelter while waiting for his hearing that would have been six to eight weeks away. husband adamantly refused to allow difficult child to come home. I couldn't imagine sending difficult child to a shelter, even though he had a very bad attitude. I wouldn't accept either so I fought and found a better place, something I wouldn't have done if I had had my way.

Again, I was furious with husband because he was being so mean to difficult child. Or so I thought, but he wasn't. He was right. It just took me time to see it and I think we're finally on a good road with difficult child, a bumpy one but headed in the right direction and difficult child is open to accepting the help he now knows he needs.

in my opinion, you need to do what's right for the WHOLE family. Not just husband and McWeedy. Eventually, wife will understand and probably agree you are looking out for the whole family. What's that quote??? "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"??? Mikey, it very obvious you love your family more than anything in the world, follow your instincts...

 

[Kjs]

Mikey, I rarely post in this area. I was also that little girl. It hurt my heart watching my brother in so much pain. Seeing my dad so angry. I was afraid for my brother. not fear of drugs or death, fear of my father. i didn't know where the drugs would head him, and frankly I didn't care. I wanted my brother back. If my dad wasn't mad at him and yelling all the time things were ok.

I know how you love him sooo very much. And your head is telling you one thing, and your heart is telling you another.
I am so sorry. You are living my scariest nightmares. I pray so much for you and Mcweedy.

As hard as it is, would calling the police on him when he has drugs be worse than a possible OD?

What kind of message has been sent to Dancer over the past couple years? "Dad doesn't really mean what he says"

My easy child will be 25 in January. Became pretty heavy drinker in college. (fraternity) Never graduated. Found out that college will not allow you to attend if you don't. They don't want you. They have many others who are willing to make the effort. He was kicked out for a summer and a semester. Never to return. I kept waiting for him to grow up. Get his priorities in order. Only now does he realize his friends are either working on Master's or graduated, working at well paying companies. He NOW wants to move back home, quit his job and go back to school. I don't want him to quit his job, but it took him this many years to find out on his own what he needs to do.
There was no way I could talk, nag, yell to make him see this.

I wish you the best. Be strong. This is your son. don't ever give up.

 

[Mikey]

ck1, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have a question...if you had an employee reporting to you who wasn't doing a good job. He was coming in late, not doing what was expected of him, bad attitude, etc. would you fire him? Yes!!! but would you fire him now and tell him it will be effective three to four months from now??? </div></div>

No, not if I was truly "the boss". But I'm not. And I can tell you that I have been an IT manager/director at several companies, and at every place I've worked there's always been that "one" person. You know, the one who can't do a good job, doesn't want to do a good job, but has an "in" with the owner/executive floor/whatever?

Every place I've worked, there's been at least one person that I felt had to go, but I was overruled by MY bosses. "Give him another chance", or "he's having a rough time - don't be so hard on him", or my personal favorite "he's been here forever, and he doesn't deserve to be let go simply because he can't get along with YOU".

I understand your analogy, but I humbly suggest that it isn't accurate in my home life, and in fact hasn't been accurate in my career as a manager, either. I understand what you're saying, though. If only it were as easy as "putting my foot down" and doing what was best for the family.

And I've actually tried to do what your husband did, i.e. "bring the bottom up to McWeedy" (I absolutely LOVE that analogy - do you mind if I steal it in other posts? :wink: ) Unfortunately, most of the rest of the family sees it as me going Gestapo on McWeedy, and they don't understand the need to draw such a firm line and have consequences (never mind that McWeedy's been given several "soft" demands that he was never able to meet).

Other than Sarge (who could easily make it on his own as a college student in a dorm), at this point I'm starting to feel like the odd man out, and putting my foot down only reinforces that schism. Not sure where it'll end up, but that's where it is for now.

I sincerely appreciate your response, though. Thank you for taking the time.

Mikey

 

[ck1]

Mikey: You're welcome and I'm glad it didn't tick you off, I was a little nervous. Of course...you can use that phrase anytime, I'd be honored!

How truly frustrating and exhausting you must be from your home situation. I can't imagine having everyone in my family fighting me when I'm only trying to do the right thing. Hang in there though eventually it has to get better--what goes down must come up!

 

[BusynMember]

Mikey, I don't know much about you, but, as I've said, I read this entire thread. I think you're trying to be Popular Dad and disregarding all you know is right to be Good Guy. That doesn't get results and can lead to wayward kids (been there, done that, got the badge). Even if Dancer is angry in the short term, she'll see, when she's more mature, that you were the only one trying to help her brother. I'm guessing that if he's into McWeed to a BIG extent, he's probably into McCoke and other fun substances too. He could die. Then who would be Good Guy? Dancer should have no input to how you treat your son. She's a minor child. And you don't KNOW that she won't be influenced to take drugs later on. My daughter was a sweet little princess one day and a drug addict the next year. I do think your wife is in serious denial, or is also trying to be Good Guy to an adult child who is messing with all of your lives. I'd get angry about it rather than worrying about being popular. All your kids will respect you if you take a stand later on. McWeedy knows he's not being good to himself. My grown kids are now 30 and 23. My 23 year old was the rabid drug addict. She's doing great now; we're really close. But she hated me when I took a hard stand with her and her young siblings couldn't believe we'd call the police on her. Everyone "gets it" now, especially 23 year old. Good luck!

 

[Sunlight]

surrender.
let things go and dont react.
see how that affects the home life.
paste on a smile and bury your head in a book or stare blankly at the TV
be catatonic and see what happens when your input is outta there.
bet wife and dancer will be whining for you to step up to the plate.

 

[meowbunny]

Think Janet (ant'smom) has given you a great game plan.

 

[susiestar]

Oh, yeah. Janet knows her stuff. Would be interesting to be a fly on the wall if you can keep it up.

Hugs,

Susie