updating daily-Day 10, my son, in 1st detox, ?'s

[jmama45]

I will post each day, new questions always coming...


I am new here. There is just so much background... but my difficult child is 22 has a 11 week old daughter, and is in 30 day treatment lock up and in denial. :sad:

Short version...

Got expelled from 11th grade and we got him to a private school where he did great. That summer he started back with the same crowd and left home at 17, he was smoking pot and lying and not coming home. His father (always a pal not a father) took him there and it all got worse. He was FREE!! He quit school in 12th grade and got stupid jobs, kept smoking and just got by. The past year he has had 2 arrests and a baby!! We were very close until he started pot at 16 and since then he keeps me at a distance. Big long tight hugs, love yous and all that, but as his mom, I knew he was drifting away. Then he gets girlfriend pregnant. I met her once before this :frown: he kept us apart through the 9 months. I did my best to keep in touch and it was 9 months of crying for me because I didn't know the girl and I knew my son was in no way ready to have a child.

So baby was born, I am there and have formed a great relationship with the girlfriend since. I have my granddaughter once a week overnight and help buy formula and diapers and clothes and am just having so much fun loving her. About when gd was 4 weeks old, I get a call from girlfriend telling me my son is snorking perks and she admits she knew 6 months ago and trying to help him detox. She wanted me to know and said she cant deal with it, she has a 5 yr old too and she cant have him around all that. So my son calls and trying to tell me she is crazy and its all her. Anyway, since my son never got his GED, works under the table, isn't being responsible for his child financially, goes out ALL the time, doesn't talk to family unless its a holiday, has friends that are all on drugs... it was clear to me he was in trouble. Most people thought I was over reacting being so upset about the pregnancy, but I am mom- I knew.

So the newest is last week he got physical in a fight with the girlfriend, not injured her, but put his hands on her and that is NOT OK! She called police, police arrest him, he goes to jailhouse. his prior cases, possesion and fake checks-make for high bail and held for court. Night before court, girlfriend investigates nad finds out my son is doing OC for 1-2 months!!! She goes to court and asks for treatment not jail. She gets his father to sign him into 30 treatment (only because she couldnt get to me to do it and was desperate she called him) Son was gonna get 60 days in jail otherwise and he needs help not jail. I was happy girlfriend was on the ball with all that. His father never talked to me since he took my son in and I called him a month ago to talk to him about son doing perks, he never returned my 2 calls. He didn't call me to tell me he signed my son into treatment, he is useless.

So son gets 30 days. He calls me one day 1 and says "I shouldn't be here, I am not doing that much, they have me on more drugs here than I was doing, I am gonna ask the counselor to get me out early, everyone here is really messed up I am the only normal one here...etc" asks for me to set him up with phone call card to girlfriend, he will call tomorrow. My take is he was shocked to be there and sad.

OK, so I am now faced with the fact that my son is an addict and has been on some form of drugs for years. He has this baby who needs him. He will miss her first Christmas :frown: He is in denial. His father never did and never will work with me.

It all makes sense to me since my son hasn't been himself since he started smoking pot. He just wanted freedom and independence so bad back then. My mothers intuition has always been this boy is in trouble, but he won't admit it and if I ask him, and he thinks I know anything, he will shut me off even more. I was right on.

So now I need to know how to help treatment work for him. Phone calls, letters etc.

Like he wants prepay phone card to talk to his girlfriend and such. He only called once because he cant call for the first days and I do not know how he even got that one call to me, but he hasn't called since. Today is day 3 for him. Please help me not do too much for him. I did send a Christmas card from me with a letter (tone was not lecture, just supporting change) and a Christmas card from his daughter with 2 pics of her. I figure he can stare and them and maybe wake up! His girlfriend send pics of them 3 and a letter telling him she wants him, loves him, but he cant go back there till he cleans up for good.

So what can you tell me about what to do and not do while he is in for 30 days. My gut says not to get him more than quick calls to girlfriend and that he needs to be alone and not be in contact with anyone too much. He cant call cell phones from there so that is most everyone.

Just help me please. I don't want to mess up. I am not used to this stuff, I have a great family and dont have people on drugs in my life otherwise.

I can't believe he wont be home for Christmas :frown: I am hoping this is a blessing in disguise and he will be so hurting he will want to change his life.

I am in a rush, sorry if I babbled.. but I wanted to get a post started at least.

Thanks
and love to all going through this!

 

[saving grace]

Quote:
So son gets 30 days. He calls me one day 1 and says "I shouldn't be here, I am not doing that much, they have me on more drugs here than I was doing, I am gonna ask the counselor to get me out early, everyone here is really messed up I am the only normal one here...etc" asks for me to set him up with phone call card to girlfriend, he will call tomorrow. My take is he was shocked to be there and sad.


My son said the same EXACT thing his first time in detox and the second, and third, by the fourth time he started asking to be in detox but I soon realized that he had the system figured out by then and new it would help him with the symptoms of withdrawl he would be good for maybe a week some times more sometimes less.
It took many times until he "got it"
I do believe that each time he spent in the various different types of rehabs and detoxs was not wasted, I feel it got him to the point he is at and he needed each and every one.
That said 3 days is way way way too soon for him to have contact with the outside, ie; girlfriend you or anyone. He will say whatever he needs to so that you feel bad for him The addict is the master of manipulation, he probably doesnt do it to hurt or on purpose it just comes natural to him.

What you can do is DETACH he is a man, he is 22 and a father. He needs to figure this out himself. Tell him you love him, and that you will be there to support him when he is supporting himself and doing the right thing and taking responsibility for his own actions. Believe me I know how hard it is to hear you son cry and beg and hurt but he needs this.
The first time my son went away I brought him everything he needed to be comfortable, he sold it or traded most of it. The second time I gave him the essentials, each time he valued what he had and learned to appreciate it because he realized how important a phone card was or toothpaste. Its a long process but you have to remember he is not a camp he is being punished for his actions let him feel the consequences of his actions. Let him miss you, his baby and his girlfriend. Tell her to do the same.

Love him, allow him to call you once a week when he has phone privlages, be supportive but not enabling be strong. If he leaves lock your doors and tell him that you love him but you do not love his addiction and that while you have room for him in your life you do not have room for his addictions.

You can do it, you can be strong, they are more resiliant than they make you believe that are. My son has been in jail, rehabs detoxs, homeless, beat up, strung out you name it. Each time I learned more and more.

This is a great place to come when your feeling down, I would have not been able to get through the past 5 years without this site.

More will come and welcome you, more will come and offer their experience and advice, piece it together and take what you need from us.

Grace

 

[BusynMember]

(((Hugs))) to you. Isn't it hard? My precious daughter started smoking pot at twelve. I can't even imagine that now--I have another daughter who is now almost twelve and she's so innocent. Anyways, she upped the ante and did harder drugs, although we duhhhhhhhhhhh had no idea--thought it was just pot. She's clean now and has given me pointers on how to deal with drug addiction. My own words to you are a combination of her thoughts and what worked for us.
My daughter says "Never trust a drug addict!"
If your son is in denial that he has problems and thinks that everyone is insane and he's normal, sadly he won't get help. My daughter, at her age, had to decide ON HER OWN to get clean. It's not pleasant and only a very motivated person will do it. We made daughter leave at eighteen after coming home early from a trip and finding her and her buddies doing drugs in our house (she had sworn she was clean and, call us stupid, but we couldn't tell if she was sober or clean. She hid her addiction well). After she was thrown out we gave her NOT A DIME, and that's when she turned it around. She went to live with her straight arrow brother and he wouldn't even tolerate a cigarette in his house. Since he was her last chance to elude homelessness or a shelter life, she listened to him. She didn't have a car, but she got a job she could walk to. THe point? At his age, I would do nothing to make this easy or more pleasant for him. That in my opinion is enabling and doesn't work. He isn't saying, "I can't take it, I want help to get clean" so I wouldn't help him. I think my daughter would have gone on taking drugs if she had had mom or dad helping her along. And YES it was hard to let go, I cried a lot. She wouldn't talk to me for months. I felt guilty. But she made it and she thinks the only way to deal with an addict is Tough Love. They are opportunists, users, and liars and are very sick with addiction. They become their old selfs only after they actually detox and stay straight. While they are craving drugs, they'll go anything to get out of confinement to go back to their old ways.
The girlfriend sounds really on the ball and I would help HER and your wonderful grandchild. Right now, it's hard to deal with, but her father would not be a positive force in her life because of his addiction. He could even hurt the child, since he put his hands on his girlfriend.
None of this is your fault, and you can't make it better. Only HE can do that. I suggest you let him take the consequences without your assistance. You can visit him, but I'd not give him money. Remember that going to detox doesn't mean he will. I'd jump in to give him support (not money) once you see him seriously working a program to quit using drugs. Saying everyone else is crazy but him is his own denial. The good person is still inside of him. One day, like my daughter, he may see that he wants to be that good person again. Right now, he's not there yet. JMO of course and so sorry about your pain. I've felt it and I don't take it lightly!

 

[DDD]

When in doubt...back off!

Memorize and repeat the Serenity Prayer. Read and reread the
Detachment post (copy found in the Archives on page one).

Accept my sincere hugs and my cyber support. Doing "less" is
always better than doing "more". It is hard to learn. DDD

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Welcome to the board.

Take some deep breaths. You are among those who have been there.

In fact, I was your son! I was in detox. rehab, you name it. And I was the only " not crazy " one there.

Riiiiight.

The others already said it. Detach. He is where he needs to be. He can last 30 days not talking to g/f. Yes, it is extremely sad that he will miss his daughter's first Christmas. His fault, his problem. Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call to him. You can't MAKE this work for him; he has to want it bad enough. The worse you let this be for him, the sooner he hits bottom.

Take a LOT of pictures of Christmas. Pray for him. And remember that you are in control of NOTHING except you.

You found a safe, soft place to land. Glad you found us; sorry you had to.

 

[Hound dog]

Quote:
When in doubt...back off!

Sound advice DDD.

I don't have words of wisdom. I just wanted to add in my warm welcome to the board.

(((hugs)))

 

[Anna1345]

Before reading any replies....

My instinct is that when making decisions about what to do re: your difficult child, you need to stop letting your heart and emotions make the decisions. You said he will miss his daughter's first Christmas, well, that is okay. She won't realize it. Better miss the first to get well than miss all the rest because he is high on drugs. You are right he is an addict and he is in denial. Just the fact that he said "I'm not doing that much stuff, blah blah" means that he can't differentiate that ANY is too much. He needs to be clean and sober for his child.

Right now, your first concern should be the baby. Good for you for developing a relationship with the mom! It will be SO important for you to have a relationship with her and the baby. I am so glad you have done that! I think it is perfectly fine that you are buying formula and such. I am a firm believer that it takes a village to raise a child.

In my opinion, you need to be firm with difficult child. Let him know that you love him no matter what but will only support him in his recovery of his drug addiction and nothing else. You will go through fire for him --- IF he is helping himself to get better. You will NOT help him get out early, but you WOULD help him stay longer.

I know it is hard with the holidays right around the corner but you have to do what is in his best interest. It is not our job to be a friend. It is not our job to even be liked. It is our job to do what is best for our children. Be strong! You can do this! Hang in there!

 

[witzend]

Sounds as though he is going through withdrawals and doesn't like it. I'm sorry that you and his dad aren't communicating. That's how it is with me and L's dad. If he talked to me, he'd have to face the BS he's been dishing out the past 24 years. It's much easier for him to get advice from a girlfriend he's only known three weeks and never mentioned our story to. I loved the one who said "Wow, you two are so great, you get along so well for seperate parents!" Get your head out of your hoo-haw, honey, I gave up trying to talk to him years ago!

You have gotten good advice. Detach from him, and do what you can for the baby. I know that will be hard once he gets out. At this point it's not just you and him with his dad interfering, it's you and him and girlfriend and GD, and girlfriend's son, and dad. UGH! That's not a good juggling combination. Personally, I would not send him a phone card. Life when you're a junkie in denial, I guess. Maybe he'll figure it out. Send him some stamps, maybe. Then he can't argue and manipulate.

 

[Abbey]

It's really hard to do, especially at the holiday time, but he NEEDS to see the real consequences of his choices. Yes, it will be hard for him to miss his daughter's first Christmas, but that is a consequence. Maybe he won't miss the 2nd.

Hang in there. You've got a great group of people who pull from dire experiences.

Abbey

 

[standswithcourage]

I understand completely also. My son said and did the same exact thing. You can be strong. Just continue to tell hiim you love him - support him in getting better but dont enable him. You have to be there for him but also let him know his behavior has got to change - you can take care of yourself also and feel good about the fact that he is not on the street or dead. My son is in jail right now. It is horrible. But I know that he caused it not me. It is better than being dead and with life there is hope. The hardest thing for me is missing him and not feeling sorry for him. I am a teacher and just got off for winter break - I catch myself sitting thinking abaout what to do for him and then I stop and pray. Also I send him letters and will go to see him on Christmas Eve. That is hard but we learn what they need and they need love but not smothering love. My son has been in jail since Oct. I havea been to see him once my husband and been none. Everytime before when he was locked up I went every week - even though it almost made me sick to go - I went out of pure guilt but this time it has been harder for me to go because he continued to go the wrong way with us constantly telling him not to. He is 24 and this has been going on for 7 years. He has been to rehab and many other places for help. We will be here for you to help you be strong. I would not send him a phone card either. My son cannot call. We have cell phones. It has been so much better. He writes more and thinks more about his choices. With phone calls it is a lot easier for them to manipulate us. Hang in there. :xmasdec:

 

[Anna1345]

You know, it has also been said the the drug for the family members is the addict. I agree with not sending him a phone card. He needs detachment right now to focus on himself in addition to the detachment YOU all need from him. HAng in there!

 

[goldenguru]

Quote:
So what can you tell me about what to do and not do while he is in for 30 days.

I agree with the others about overdoing things like calling cards, etc. You don't want to make this too comfy.

If it were me I would concentrate on that precious grand daughter and his girlfriend. She is going to need you support and encouragement.

And of course take care of yourself. It can be a very long journey - as opposed to a sprint - and you'll do better if you take care of you.

Welcome aboard.

 

[jmama45]

Well we didnt hear from him from Tues till today. I was glad he couldn't make calls. girlfriend got a call and then I got one later on. To girlfriend he admited his use and she told him he can't be with her son, her and the baby doing drugs. He said he isn't going a day without them and he will drug test every day if he has too. He told her he was never straight since they met (1 1/2 yrs) and she doesn't even know him. That hurt her, but it is the truth. He admitted to being messed up for 6 years (since he left my home.) He told her when he got there he thought "wow, she hooked me up, now I can have more contacts" and then after a couple days, he decided OMG I do not want to be like this, I want to change my life.

With my call, we talked about the place, he said they make it sound to family like it isn't a jail, but he said it is. He said he lays in bed and has anxiety can cant sleep. He said it is dirty there, it smells bad the food is bad and it is a jail. He said he looks around and doesn't want to be there EVER again and be on drugs and he is going to change his life. He said it is his own fault he is there and that he deserves to be there, if not 30 days, longer! He said he knows he is there because he is loved. He knows he has a million family members that care about him. He said he will go into a program when he gets out. He got the card and pictures and stares at the baby. He sounded different than 3 days ago, more like the son he was before the past 6 years. He knows his next step is real jail and admitted he knew people the the real jail and said he isn't proud of it and they are not people he wants to know.

He said he wrote girlfriend 3 letters and his thoughts are jumbled so he isn't sending them. He was hoping to write me tonight. He had a paycheck with him so he has money and can use the phone.

My son hasn't talked to me much in 6 years, I mean I saw him maybe 7 times a year, he called but was never more than hey and light talk. He said more today than he has in years!! Is he waking up? He is admitting and looking for change. I guess I wont know until he takes action. But all along his choice of how to deal with his ways has been avoidance, now he is talking and to me that is a chnage all in it self. He definatly was not talking like he did the other day, it was like a whole different kid. He said he isn't befriending people in there, he has no need to know them.

He said he never got sick and all that. He said most people detox for days before they go into a "unit" and that he was in his unit on day 2. They are not giving him any medications either. He has nothing in his system.

So I wonder, how can I tell if he is telling me what I want to hear? He does know he can't put me on, that I know him too well. He never was big on playing me, he just stayed away. He didn't ask me for money or any help in 6 years, he jsut never involved me.

He said he is just thinking and thinking and going crazy knowing he will miss xmas, new years and the girlfriend's sons birthday. He said it kills him that the girlfriend's son is asking for him. He got a note from girlfriend's son and he drew a picture of them playing together, he said it killed him.

So he is feeling something again. I dont think he felt an emotion that strong in years. I so hope this works for him. The wake up call he needed.

p.s. no visitors allowed for the whole 30 days. I sooo agree with that. I don't plan on helping him be comfy there. NO WAY! girlfriend and I agreed no more baby pics, let him suffer when he sees how much she changed in 30 days! He will be so sad when he sees her! I have a feeling I will be hearing from him more than I have in 6 years! I don't think thats bad since talking to me again is a new behavior for him, opening up is new, I think it is only going to help him. I am not oh poor you, I just let him do the talking and support the good choices he talks about. Make sense?

 

[witzend]

Quote:
So I wonder, how can I tell if he is telling me what I want to hear?

It's possible that he's telling himself what he wants to hear. Saying that he doesn't ever want to be there again is only the beginning. Figuring out how to stay out and move on is harder.

It sounds as though you all need to take it one day at a time. I would believe that he wants what he says to be true, and hope that he can make it happen.

 

[saving grace]

This is part of the process, My son and others have all said the same things, and Jmama he means them "right now" He has alot of time to think he hates where he is he is seeing how great he had it. BUT BUT BUT its what he actual retains from being there and what he does with his life when he leaves. My son was in many rehabs said what your son is saying every time every single time. Then when he got out he tried to live up to his words but for one reason or another he went back. Addiction is a powerful powerful thing, right now it has control over your son, he has to become stronger than the addiction and stay stronger, it will be a power struggle his whole life, every day he has to wake up and say to himself "Today I am stronger than my addciton and I will not use"
If he sees his "old friends" what will he do? If he has a "bad day" what will he do? These are things they will try to teach him, if he retains it then it will help him, if he sits there and just goes through the motions of the program till his "time" is up then he will leave there the same way he went in with the exception of being high.
I find it very hard very hard to believe that if he was doing OC's for 2 months before he went in that he didnt get sick.
he may be in more denial than you think.

For right now take it Day by Day, dont put too much hope into what he says, just keep telling him that you love him and will support him if he is doing the right thing. Do not enable him, do not change what you say and feel based on anything he is saying right now. It will only set you up for disappointment.
His actions when he gets out will show you if you can trust him.

Missing his kids holidays is the very least of his problems right now. Has harsh as that sounds he has other things to worry about. if he is taking this seriously then he will realize that.

Grace

 

[rejectedmom]

Originally Posted By: saving grace
For right now take it Day by Day, dont put too much hope into what he says, just keep telling him that you love him and will support him if he is doing the right thing. Do not enable him, do not change what you say and feel based on anything he is saying right now. It will only set you up for disappointment.
His actions when he gets out will show you if you can trust him.


Addicts almost always have the right words They just don't have the right actions. Make your judgements by observing his actions not by listening to his words.

Listen to the other mothers here who have been through this. From my own experiences with the addicts in my life and observation of others experiences here on the board, I can tell you that it is rare that an addict will "get it" the first time in recovery.

The change in them when they are truly recovered is very observable. There is an inner peace that radiates from them like a huge weight is lifted from their sholders. I have seen this over and over when I volunteered for a mission that rehabilitates addicts.

Another point is that as long as your son is making comparisons between himself and others in the program you can know for certain he isn't at the crossroad of change yet. Addiction is not a matter of relativity, it is an absolute.

 

[jmama45]

Thanks for all the words so far. Yes this is gonna be a long haul.

Yesterday he call in the am. He still had the tone of admitting and wanting to change.

Today he called and I worry he is talking to girlfriend too much. He talked of asking the court for a different lawyer that the one he has isn't going to work with him and will throw him under the bus. He said girlfriend said the guy was a jerk to her too. I am thinking GOOD! let the guy make it hard! He also wants to see if he can get out a couple days early for her sons 6th birthday. :smile: ya OK, they care! So today I feel he is talking to her too much and it isn't helping! ARG! But I did set up the phone for her so I guess I will have to find the strength to not put more money on it. God help me!

See I have only starting even talking and getting to know her since the baby was born 12 weeks ago. I am still trying to figure out her strengths and weaknesses. ANd she is a spitfire, she is very out spoken (I am not) and is a force to be reckoned with. I have helped with the baby and really try to help her when I can, but it seems to be growing beyond what I will be able to handle. Let me mention, I have a husband of 15 years and a 14 yr old here. My 14 yr old is doing GREAT and I have to be sure I do not rock her world for her brother's . God knows I was caught up in the teen hell with him before and almost lost my mind.

OK, so girlfriend has MAJOR issues! She "can't do" alot of things, she is very her way or no way. She can't be a passenger in a car, she can't eat or be around meat, she has some many things she says makes her crazy. Now last night she called to tell me she didnt think she could come for xmas, that her car is broke. She has trouble with it and it happened again, overheating. So since she can't get it fixed before the holiday. I advised she get a rental from the dealer since this is the 4th time that recalled part broke, if they are open Mon am. If not, I will pick her up 45 mins away... I have a car seat set up and she could deal with driving with me over anyone I think. But man, I am hosting the xmas here and have people coming, like my mom, from 5 mins from her, yet I will have to leave to pick her up because she has issues. :nonono: Wouldn't a normal person take the ride they can get and dela with it. MAN O MAN! And her parents are around (divorced) and they cant help her on xmas???? I haven't figured them out more than they are BOTH alcoholics :frown:

Also, her bills are behind. I am under the impression she did ok till my son moved in, but am not sure. She blameds him not giving her money to pay them. SHe is on housing and he isn't suppose to live there anyway- that is one big thing with me, breaking that rule makes me insane! I have shut up about it, but not sure if I can now.

Ok so her car ins, car payment, electric, heat, cell are all 3 months behind. ALSO son took a loan she co-signed (she must of have good credit) and he defaulted 2 mos now and they want money for that NOW.

How do I deal with all of this, her and the baby and then him too????? I have such a nice life with husband and daughter, we both work, have routines and all is smooth. I cant spend my energies with girlfriend and husband and daughter loses out. I want to help her, but I can only do so much. She needs to find a new apt and get out of the envirnoment she is in, not good for the kids. The place is dangerous, stairs and porch that the baby could get hurt. Drug dealers around. And oh, she isn't one to be clean so the place is pretty gross too. I mean clutter and dirt. The sink usually has mounds of dishes, dirty bottles everywhere, it just isn't good. I am a clean freak and seeing that place makes her want to cry. The baby could pick up anything and eat it soon. I was hoping to work with her on looking around after the new year. But with all the bills she has, I dont know what to do.

My son living in that told me there was a problem. He came from a nice clean suburb and is in a city apt that looks like a bomb hit it. You know one day I picked the baby up, there were 2 bottles, 3 dirty diapers sitting on the floor :frown: She didnt walk out of the room to the trash in 2 feedings?

Her son goes with his father every weekend. Seems to go there extra too. But the baby, I only take one night because I work...

Oh and today, my son asked if he he doesn't get into a program on release, if he can move back here for "a while" I kicked him out at 17 for partying and smoking pot. He never asked me for a thing since. This is a 360 for him, so its hard to tell if he is seriuos about change. He knows though, that my husband plays NO games and his butt is out at the first screw up, so seems to me he means it. But like you all said, we won't know until he takes action, no words.

I dunno, lots of things going on. My head hurts LOL!

ps is not sleeping normal? he talk about being so anxious all the time that he cant sleep, read or do anything. He doesnt have any mental issues, not normally anxious, but I assume this is all withdrawal for him. Right? oh and he was a cig smoker, cold turkey has gotta contribute right?

 

[saving grace]

I am sorry but these are all her problems not yours. She is a grown women with 2 children, she has her own family. She got herself into this mess then she needs to get herself out of it. I would be concerned that her children are safe and not neglected but other than that you should worry about yourself and your 14 year old and husband.
I dont think having your son move back in with you is a great idea but if you think it will help him and you can live with it then that is up to you. I know in my case I took my son back after a year, it was the only thing I could do. All the other times it never worked, I had to say NO when he asked to come home, I finally let him stay its hard but he is also different now.

Recite the Serenity prayer.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

 

[witzend]

Grace gives some excellent first hand advice. You can't help everyone in the world who needs it. Do what you can for those who need it the most.

 

[jmama45]

Right. My concern is my granddaughter. girlfriend's life style is far from the way I live in so many ways. She seems to love her children enough, but she was never taught well how to raise them. She is very mean at times. One the other hand, she is very into good, like feeding times and how much and that stuff. SHe wrote down every feeding time, amount and bm for over a month. She just is god with that stuff, but not good with what the kids see ie. she has playboy bunny things everywhere, who wants that around their kids? She let my son stay their when she is on housing, that isn't ok. I dunno, its so weird. I know her parents split up when she was 12 and she was raised by her Aunt. Her aunt is 44 and on fulltime disablity. The whole family is on some sort of assistance, they seem to know the game and play it. That is everything I am not. She was self taught it seems and it isn't good.

If I want to see my gd, I will have to deal with her... and she involves me but seems to think she makes the rules as far as what my son is going to do when he gets out. I can't let her be part of that or he will NEVER make it. Having his baby makes her think she rules everything for him, and he is too messed up to see it now. She is talking about getting his family together for an intervention when he gets out... thats not her decision to make, she is in no position to guide him or us. She already had a boyfriend go through this exact thing, so she thinks she knows it all, court, rehab all of it. YIKES!

I think I may look into alnon. I have little idea on what to do, what is right to do and what is wrong. I need help in not enabling. I need to know what is help and what is enabling while he is going through all this.

I do not see us letting him coming back here UNLESS his does a residential rehab first and has so proof he is on the right path. I dont know what to say to him on the phone, what he can handle hearing and what he can't. His calls are getting harder, since we talked about it all now, there in nothing left to do but wait and see what happens when he gets out.

I don't know but my instints tell me he has to be cut off from her before anything will change for him. But he thinks they are his family and is acting like he can't stay away from them for a minute longer than he is forced to.

Gosh, I sound as mubled as he does now LOL. I so hate this!