What do you do in the moment?

[dreamwallaby]

My DS 1 is continuing to have issues. He is seeing a therapist now and hopefully next week I can make an appointment with the neuro psychiatric. I have read The Explosive Child and I am trying to use CPS for some of the issues, but there are sooooo many moments where I just want to hang my head and cry in defeat. Tonight he was eating at the table and asked me for a wet paper towel. I gave it to him. I was also sitting at the table working at my lap top. He wiped the jelly from his arm and then swiped it onto my keyboard. There was NOTHING precipitating this, all was calm. I told him to stop and he looked me directly in the eye and swiped the jelly onto my keyboard again. I closed the lap top, put it away and turned to him. I asked him why he did it even after I asked him not to. He said "Because" jumps up and goes to living room, where he proceeds to leap at his 2 yr old brother who was sitting on the couch relaxing. DS 1 wanted to give him a hug, but pretty much launched himself at his little brother and knocked him square on the chin with his head. I walked in, picked up DS 2, who was now crying hysterically and told DS 1 he needed to go take his shower, that I didn't want him out here with us right now since he obviously couldn't control himself. He yelled "it was an accident, you don't have to be mean" and shoved me as hard as he could while I was still holding DS 2. I am trying to remain calm and this is just an example of the ongoing button pushing I get from DS 1. He looks me directly in the eye with this hard stare and will do whatever he wants. Like he is daring me to do something about it. I feel like I am stretched so thin and I am becoming worried that one day I will snap Time outs don't work, he will say "no" and plant his feet ready for battle, or stay just out of reach, so unless you want to tackle him and wrestle him in to time out, it's a no go. Taking things doesn't work either. I remove tv, video games etc and he just says I don't care. I understand the CPS, but these are not problems to talk about prior to the action. How could I know he would smear jelly on my lap top. When I talk to him about these things, he just responds with "because" or " I don't know" or "i just felt like it."
His teacher sent a note home yesterday saying that he argued with her about everything, was very disruptive, took the juice box she gave him and squirted it into the trash pretending to pee. When she asked him to return to his seat, he just said "no, I don't want to" every other child went back to there seat except him. He just does whatever he feels like. He really doesn't care, just like he says. He could care less about any one else's feelings. He demands I do things for him, like get him a drink or a toy. When i say he needs to ask nicely without an attitude he will scream relentlessly at me at the top of his lungs. Sometimes these outbursts will becoming crying hysterical fits. Just becaue he can't ask nicely. I don't always need to hear please, but you can't boss me around either.
So right now he was messing with the printer. I asked him nicely to leave it alone so he won't mess up the settings (it's wireless). He just looked at me and kept pressing buttons. If I touch him, he will immediately become violent and physical with me. How do I get him away from the printer???

 

[AnnieO]

Hi... I don't have a good answer for you, except to pick him up and move him. Yes, he will get physical. And as your post was more than ten minutes ago...

Can you lock up the printer somewhere he cannot get to it? This may be your only hope of it not getting messed up.

Fact is, no, he doesn't care. (I have one of those, too.) Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to make him care - this is up to him.

I would be wondering abut the Vyvanse - but that's because I watch all medications carefully after Jett's reaction to Concerta. Just out of curiosity - has he always been this defiant? With two younger siblings, I can see the "need" for more attention - which is what I thought with the second jelly swipe. After that, though, it went downhill...

Hugs - I don't have much more in my bag of tricks right now, but at least you know we are here for you.

 

[dreamwallaby]

He has ALWAYS been like this, even before brothers came along. When he was just starting to walk, he would walk over to the DVD player and push buttons. We would say no, he would look at us and do it again, we get up to move him and he would slap at the DVD player with both hands as fast as possible to get in as many touches as possible before we got to him. I thought it was normal at the time but this seemingly innocent act was the beginning of the rest of our lives. When he was 3 he pulled the fire alarm at his day care, managed to elude his teachers and unwrap all the pollyana gifts and I bought 2 books; Parenting the Strong Willed Child and Raising Cain:the emotional lives of boys. I am really surprised I even wanted more kids after him. Luckily DS2 is a gem and DS 3 is too little to tell.

 

[Wiped Out]

First of hugs! Your difficult child reminds me a lot of my difficult child at that age. It was so absolutely wearing and frustrating because it is so hard to know what is the right to handle things in a moment like that. For our difficult child we had to constantly try new things. He actually said to his 1st grade teacher that she would have to come up with something new because while that worked once it wouldn't work again!

We would try to talk with him after the fact and discuss other choices he could make the next time in a similar situation. Sometimes that worked, sometimes not. He would say he knew other options but when he was in a rage he didn't want to choose them. We also tried distraction a lot. Again, sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

I'm sorry you have to deal with the violence as well. There was a point when my difficult child was violent nearly every day and I started calling his psychiatrist every day. We have a great psychiatrist and he always wanted to know when difficult child was like this.

At school does your son have an iep? It sounds like he could use supports in the classroom?

Has he ever been evaluated by a neuro-psychologist? A neuropsychologist evaluation can be very helpful.

Again, sending hugs your way.

 

[liz]

Welcome dreamwallaby!!

My oldest is on Vyvanse 50 mg. He is 7 years old. He can be so loving, but can turn on a dime also. The things you describe are the type of things he would do if he had thought to do them. He totally would've LOVED (and been so proud of himself) to be the one who "thought up" to use the juice box and pretend to go in the trash. I was mortified by his behavior at school, to the point that I would have to leave the classroom during class parties, under the guise of going to get my camera, etc. Once we started medications, Vyvanse was the first, he made a transformation that no one can deny. He is AWESOME in the classroom. We were fortunate that the first medication we tried just happened to be the "right" one!! Most children (and parents) are not so lucky. Luck of the draw (and psychiatrist), I guess.

I am wondering if you are thinking to change medications at any time. All the medications work differently and there may be one medication that is "perfect" for your child. When my son is on his medicine, which only lasts through the school day, teachers have no idea he has issues. In fact, they wonder why he is on them at all! This child is wonderful, they say, UNTIL the day which, regrettably, happens at least once a school year, where he "forgets" or drops his medicine out of his mouth and goes to school unmedicated. By lunch, he is out of control to the point where they can do nothing with him. Sad, but true, and a reality that I have learned to face.

I wish you were not on this journey with us, and I do not wish this mothering journey on anyone. We know how you feel and many here are so knowledgeable and have ideas that will help you and also offer shoulders to lean on when you need one. Welcome dreamwallaby!!

 

[dreamwallaby]

I am waiting for our insurance to kick in next week, then scheduling his neuro psychiatric at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. It can't come soon enough though.
What is an iep? I also thought about wrap around services, but when I called the county youth program they sent a lady over to talk with us from their mobile response unit and she told me not to bother because all they would do was set up a behavior chart which we already tried.
Thank you for the support, it is so frustrating and all the other parents I know just say "my kid would never act like that, he'd be too scared of what I'd do to him." They just dont get it.

 

[dreamwallaby]

Liz ~ this is the first medication we tried and most days at school he is awesome on it. We just started it a few months ago, so his 1st grade teacher was able to see the transformation. It helps with-impulsiveness and focus during the day ( or did, I think he needs higher dose now that he seems to be acting up again) but it doesn't help his anger or meaness at all. He did ask me once if they could give him a shot to make him be good, which made me sad, like maybe he DOES want to be good. But then he tells me I am the worst mother ever and says "I don't care" 50x a day. How do you keep your cool? his yelling tonight made my 5 month so upset, he was bawling. It really affects my other 2 and I keep thinking how calm and wonderful life would be if only... and then I feel totally guilty and a horrible mother for even thinking of sending him away.

 

[DaisyFace]

Stacy--

You know, it almost sounds to me as though the reason he deliberately does things that he knows will get a reaction from you is because HE needs the "outlet" of a battle...

And when you did not give him the fight he wanted? He went to make some trouble for his brother!

So, the REAL problem may be teaching him to find an alternative method. Maybe he is seeking more stimulation? Maybe he is venting unpleasant emotions? Maybe he is experiencing anxiety? Who knows? I'm sure that he will not be able to articulate those feelings - because if he could, he wouldn't need to go fight with somebody to feel better.

Meanwhile, the best solution probably is "containment". Keep things out of reach and out of harm's way, if possible...

I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this.

Many (((hugs)))

 

[liz]

Dreamwallaby, just tonight my son started going off on me as we were driving to go get him some shoes. His old ones had ripped somehow on Friday at school. I was taking him with me to get some and he was so mad because he wanted to stay home and play video games and no one was even allowed to play video games anyway. It was so random and the negativity just kept spewing out of his mouth. He loves to say, "I don't care!" and such all day long. Oh, and also, just so you know, apparently, according to him, I suck Usually I just have to take a step back and wait until he calms down and then talk to him when he is ready to talk.

Hope things get better soon.