What do you say? Or do?

[galadriel]

I have a son who is able to drop an off-hand comment or make a statement that gives me hope that somewhere within him are the tools or the quiet center to save him from himself. At just-about-16 he is just starting in on discovering himself, and trying every stupid thing on the way (he's McWeedy II), while being very very overwhelmed emotionally and trying desperately to hide his vulnerability.

Should the time come that he says something like "Maybe I need jail to straighten me out", I would look him right in the eye and tell him, "YOU know what YOU need - NOW DO IT!"

They have to get to the point where they take the action on behalf of themselves.

 

[standswithcourage]

I agree with actions speak louder than words. I am now waiting for actions. I have heard all the words from my difficult child that the dictionary has but have seen no long term actions!

 

[Mikey]

SSDD, nothing new here....

McWeedy disappeared again yesterday. From lunch on he wouldn't answer his phone. Okay, that's to be expected when he acts out, but there's a firm rule that until he's paid up on his outstanding debts to us, his car remains parked unless he's at school, at work, at court or getting a drug test. No exceptions.

Yet, I viewed an empty parking place for most of the evening. Once I found out he didn't go to work after school, the radar went into high alert. I sent him several text messages to get the car home, then he could leave again with whatever poor slob he could con into giving him a ride. No response.

He also had wife's credit card, supposedly to finally get his antibiotic scrip filled. I wanted the card home as well since he bought condoms and cigs with it the last time she let him "use" it for medical reasons. Said as much in voice mail and text msg, still no response. I've given up stalking him when I'm angry, but when I need to get ahold of him and he still refuses to respond, well, let's just say my type "A" Itralian(*) personality gets the best of me.

I could see all sorts of calls and texts going into and out of his phone, including the ones from us that he was ignoring. His normal modis operandi during such episodes is that he's doing something he doesn't want us to know about. Probably the same here, yet it ignited a big fight with wife. I said he was probably drinking (again), and didn't want to answer because we'd know. wife said "that would be stupid, he'd get caught because they test for that now, and he'd get caught".....

Then I told her that he has a drug test today. Que sudden quiet, pregnant pause, then stricken look on the damsel's face as realization sets in....

"He'll probably get revoked and sent to jail". "Yep", sez me. "Don't sound so happy about it". "Well, at least we'd know where he is, and know that he can't get into any more trouble. We might even get a decent night's sleep for a change".

Que me, ducking fireballs and lazer beams blazing forth from wife, who had transformed into the fire goddess of vengeance.

I've just had enough dancing around the issue, and spoke my mind truthfully. I then beat a hasty retreat to the couch to catch up on about 10 hours of back episodes of Atlantis, or until wife fell asleep (whichever came first). But first, I shut off his phone around 11:30 (this time for good), and then locked every door. I then settled in for a nice long TV night.

About 30 minutes later, I hear a scratching at the front door. I don't move a muscle, since it's dark and he can't see in. Next thing I know, he's knocking on the patio door because he can see me with the TV on.

Ding Ding, que the scanty ring dolls to start strutting with the signs for Round 2....

I open the door a crack, and proceed to start laying into him with all the anger I've bottled up for six months. His answer? "My phone's been dead all afternoon", to which he holds up an obviously inactive phone. "Really, then you must have some residual electric charge on your body that makes it work because I know you were sending/receiving calls as late as an hour ago".

"Oh, yeah, it stopped working after that"...

I then ask him where his car is supposed to be when he's not at one of the approved places. "Oh, yeah, at home. My bad...."


"Where's your Mom's card?" "In my wallet". Breath, Mikey, breath. "Okay, can you GIVE IT TO ME????"

"Uh, it's in my car". "Okay, go get it and come back", and I slam the door in his face. He stands there sheepishly, then pecks at the door and I open it a crack. "It's in my wallet, and I left it at XXX's house" (one of the newest members of the Pothead Posse). "Good thing you didn't get pulled over, or you would have probably gone to jail for no DL".....

Then, I notice that his pupils are dilated. Yet, he's standing outside the door, at night, staring at me while the outside spotlight is shining straight into his face.

"You're drunk, or stoned". Que feigned shock and indignant looks from McWeedy. "No I'm not". Loud, noisy argument through the door ensues....

By this time the neighbors are starting to look out windows, so I send him to bed while making an extreme effort to keep my foot on the ground and off his buttocks while he walks by. I make him give me his phone before I let him in, though.

About five minutes later, before going to bed (wife's long been asleep), I checked his phone and found it had been turned off. Funny enough, when you press the little red button on the side, and there's power, it turns on. Technology is SOOOO cool that way, ain't it?

I brought it into his room and asked if he'd like to get in any more lying before I went to bed, and showed him his fully functional phone. "Nope, not tonight" sez himself. I then tell that he better have the card back by morning, and that he has a drug test tomorrow (today) as well. "Yep, I know". "You're probably going to fail it because you're drunk". "No I'm not" sez the mighty WeedWhacker, all the while staring at me with dilated eyes, slurred speech, and stinking of beer. "Yes, you will". "Then I'll be in jail"...

"Yes, you will" I said, and then went back to my room.

I took the SIM card out of his phone and broke it into pieces, and there's no way I'm reactivating the phone. Then it's off to bed for Mikey. Just as I'm turning the 'puter off for bed, I notice that the phone website had updated while I was downstairs, and it showed McWeedy had called Weedette and another Posse member 10 minutes before he carried his sorry butt back up my steps. I just shut the stupid thing off an went to bed.

Now it's a new, shining day. Wonder what it'll bring. Yesterday wife threatens divorce because I said I'd be happy if he were gone, jail or otherwise. McWeedy completely blows us off again, blew off his job for a second day in a row, obviously spent the day and evening drinking, then proceeds to drive home while still stinking of beer without his license. And he has a drug test today.

My my, it could be an interesting day, and I mean that in the Chinese interpretation of that word.

Mikey

(*) PS: 10 points to anybody who can tell me who I'm giving props to for the word Itralian.

 

[trinityroyal]

Mikey,
You've GOT to stop giving McWeedy opportunities to bait you, and you've GOT to stop giving wife opportunities to do the Firestorm/Ice Queen thing.

Detaching doesn't mean standing in the doorway yelling at your pothead son when he rolls up to the door drunk-or-stoned, after breaking all the rules you set for him. Continuing to let him engage you like that gives you no peace at all and gives McWeedy an excuse to blame you rather than himself for the things he's doing wrong.

If you step back, then for good or ill, McWeedy's actions and the responsibility for them rests solely with him.

If you decide to lock the door when McWeedy's out past his time, then you need to lock it and let him live with the consequences of a locked door. He can sleep in the car he took without permission.

I know that if my difficult child took my credit card without my permission I would be reporting it stolen, just as I would if a stranger got hold of it. Whether your wife chooses to do so is up to her. But that's her battle. Not one that you should be fighting for her.

I know it's hard to step back. You feel that if only you <<take whatever action you are taking>> that will make a difference. Well, so far the only thing that has resulted is more fireworks. You need to step back.


As for "Itralian", I have no idea???

Trinity

 

[Mikey]

One other thing. I've heard several other learned and experienced members here suggest I detach and let wife handle McWeedy. Over the last few weeks, I've tried to do that. I stay out of everything involving the WeedWhacker, other than the really important things - like money, and enforcing certain rules and consequences tied to the "family benefits" he leeches from us. I also occasionally deliver the beatdown when he lies and hurts wife right in front of me, but I've even toned that down because if wife wants to tolerate his deliberate lies to her face, then that's her business.

Everything else is on her. I don't ask where he's going, I don't yell at him about school, I don't bang on him for hanging with the Posse, I don't even get on him about being a slob, not going to work, and giving up on school. That's all on wife.

Only, wife's response is to simply wring her hands in worry about what antics McW's up to, and then either goes to bed or finds some other way to abandon the situation leaving me to deal with it. Any excuse to "cut and run" will do; going to sleep, taking Dancer to the mall, anything. And then I'm stuck with the mess. Like last night.

Don't know if that matters, but I wanted to put it out there. The only way I could detach even more is to simply walk away entirely, but that would give McWeedy free run of the house and our resources with absolutely NO oversight whatsoever. When I tried putting it into wife's hands, the most she's done is send a text message saying "I can't believe you're doing this to me", then it's off into whatever escape pod she's using for the day.

I'm trying, folks, really. But the only way I could detach more is to move out. And after a long talk I had with Dancer over the weekend, there's no way I could do that now.

Mikey

 

[trinityroyal]

Mikey, I know you're between the proverbial rock and hard place.

Here's something to think about, though.
Detachment doesn't necessarily mean ignoring McW's unacceptable behaviour. My take on detaching is that you don't let yourself get drawn in to the emotions and anger and chaos that result when your child is raising he//.

I'm not suggesting that you let McW have free run of the house, or break major rules, or anything of the sort. Quite the opposite. I think you need to try as best as you can to remove your emotions from the equation and to let natural consequences take over.

Just a few examples:

1) McW has proven that he's willing to take the car out without permission. So, a natural consequence might be: disabling the car, or taking away his keys, or calling the police to report the car stolen.

2) If curfew is 11 pm, then the door gets locked at 11 pm. Whoever isn't home after curfew has to fend for himself. Ignore the scratching on the door and the ringing doorbell.

3) If McW isn't doing school work and is in danger of failing his current program, let him fail. It's up to him to do the work, or not.

But whatever you do, do not let him wind you up. Even if you have to sit on your lips as BBK says, do not engage in arguing. McW continues to push against you. If you back away, then he's pushing against nothing.

wife may continue to enable McW, but she's on her own path with this. She's clearly not ready to detach yet. If you back away, she can't blame you for any of the choices that McW makes. Step out from between the 2 of them. If wife gets angry at you for defending her against McW, then don't. Natural consequences again.

Hope things start to get better. In the meantime, take care of Dancer and Sarge.

Trinity

 

[Mikey]

Trinity, thanks for the comments. I'll respond, and everyone feel free to weigh in....

1) McW has proven that he's willing to take the car out without permission. So, a natural consequence might be: disabling the car, or taking away his keys, or calling the police to report the car stolen.

Tried that. I do take the keys whenever I catch him at home and know there's no approved place for him to be for the rest of the day. But during the day wife weighs in with "how's he supposed to get to school? He has to either work or be in school as a condition for diversion. Taking his car away is just plain stupid. Oh, and if he can't get to work, how's he ever going to pay you back the money he owes?". I suggested the bus. You don't want to know the answer I got back....

2) If curfew is 11 pm, then the door gets locked at 11 pm. Whoever isn't home after curfew has to fend for himself. Ignore the scratching on the door and the ringing doorbell.

Tried that too. He takes to banging and ringing the doorbell until somebody comes. The one time I was by myself and wouldn't let him in, he ran off for the rest of the day, didn't go to work, and then blamed me to wife. The other time, when I left sleeping bags and a note on the front stoop saying he could sleep in the car that night, wife ran downstairs and let him in.

3) If McW isn't doing school work and is in danger of failing his current program, let him fail. It's up to him to do the work, or not.

True enough, and I stay out of that, much to the ire of wife who then complains that I "leave her to deal with the hard stuff", which, in translation, means "why don't you just do what I want you to do instead of leaving me to be the bad guy...". I also have to endure rolling eyes, angry conversations and snide comments like "what do you care, you just want to kick him out or get him sent to jail..."

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I really am trying. The only reason I let him in last night was because (a) I would catch heck from wife (again) if I didn't, and (b) he was obviously drunk, didn't have his DL, and still had his car key hidden somewhere on him (I couldn't assault him to get it back). Also, wife's CC was still "out there" somewhere, and it's a debit card. I could stop him from using it as a credit card, but can't stop him from draining our account via an ATM until the next day.

But, more than anything else, had I turned him out in that condition, and he ended up in jail or dead, I would be single faster than McWeedy can roll a doob.

Mikey

 

[trinityroyal]

Wow. What a mess you have on your plate.

From the sound of things, you need to detach from both McW AND wife.
It sounds like wife is going to undermine you regardless of whether you take action or don't. It sounds like wife is way to enmeshed in the drama of McW. When you take steps that reduce the drama, wife weighs in and creates some.

Just my $0.02, but it does seem that wife is thriving on the chaos every bit as much as McW. You're being thwarted every time you calm things down.

I CAN tell you that if my husband spoke to me the way your wife speaks to you, he would be my EX-H in a hurry.

You can't stop McW from destroying himself, and you can't stop wife from blaming you for it. She's not prepared to acknowledge that McW is doing this to himself, and she's not ready to step away. I think wiser heads than mine need to comment. I'm out of ideas.

Hope you find peace, or at least some quiet.

Trinity

 

[Coookie]

Hi Mikey,

I typed up a response to this thread a few days ago and then my system crashed and it went into Cyber Heaven but I wanted you to know that I have been following this.

I agree with Trinity's last response. Your difficult child and your wife are not going to change the dynamics of the drama that they both share until they have too and I don't think words are going to help them see that. Only actions perhaps.

You want the marriage to work... does wife? You want the drama to stop... does wife? Your concerned about your finances... is wife? You want your difficult child to get on the right road no matter what that takes.. does wife?

I am/was an enabler from way back... making excuses, controlling the situations, dealing with the what if's... if difficult child was left to stand alone and deal with the consequences.. blaming my husband for not "fixing" things. AND my husband wanting to take a stand but my knocking the wind out of him.

Nothing will change in your home with your difficult child until your wife gets on board with the detaching and letting difficult child grow up and face himself. No matter what you do Mikey.. but there are some concrete things I think you can do to protect your family until that happens....

Change your bank account, credit cards, cancel the cell phone and do whatever else you need to do to keep your self from being pulled into financial disaster. Your wife will not like it but it seems she is not too thrilled with anything you try to do at this point anyway.

It was almost like I had to "swallow my heart" to let difficult child deal with the consequences from his choices and I probably would not be where I am today if it hadn't been completely taken out of my hands by the US Government in the beginning. It is a daily process, sometimes a minute to minute thing, especially when they live with you. Changing the words we say to ourselves, pushing out the enabling phrases... "Oh my, how will he be able to get here, or do that, or SURVIVE without our help".

They sure seem to do it, and in the process do the things they need to do. At least in my case.

Things are not perfect here... they aren't anywhere though but I refuse to fall back into the enabling person I was. He is an adult, as is your difficult child. Sometimes their lives have to get so UGLY that they can see the difference in what they have... and had.

My difficult child talks about drinking a lot... But he knows if he does, while he is living here... he will not be living here.

I know that probably the Detachment Article has been recommended to you for you and your wife, but if not I highly recommend it. Not only for reading but for applying to your thoughts and your wife's also.

It seems that not only is McWeedy a difficult child but your wife is acting like one too.

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, I really do understand... too much I'm afraid.


Holding good thoughts for your family.

 

[Mikey]

From the sound of things, you need to detach from both McW AND wife....

Scary thought, but one I've started to have lately. I'm just not sure how you do that with a spouse of over 20 years, and two other kids in the house who don't deserve to suffer for what their brother is inflicting on the family.

Mikey

 

[Shari]

"But, more than anything else, had I turned him out in that condition, and he ended up in jail or dead, I would be single faster than McWeedy can roll a doob."

You say this like its a bad thing...? Mikey, you ARE single NOW. Single but responsible for irresponsible people!

Next time he takes off, take wife out for a romantic evening and spend the night in a hotel. Let McWeedy break in, then call the cops on his sorry .

"he was obviously drunk, didn't have his DL, and still had his car key hidden somewhere on him (I couldn't assault him to get it back)."

As for that, tell him to go back to where he came from. Send him on his merry way and call the cops when he leaves.

 

[Shari]

PS - by continuing to put up with this, you're teaching your other kids that a) its ok for wives to behave like this and b) its ok for husbands to be walked on, and c) its ok to do whatever the flip you want cause mom won't do anything and dad can't.

Let me ask you this. 15 years from now, your princess may be married. Do you want her to be married to someone like your wife? Do you want her to allow someone with no backbone to dictate her life and decisions? Because that's what staying here is teaching her.

Just my .02.

 

[Shari]

And I wouldn't even enforce house rules with him. Let wife. If you can't leave the house when he takes off, watch tv upstairs so he can't see you. Let him bang. Let her answer.

And if he gets caught driving drunk when he shouldn't have had the car, well...what good is it doing for you to try to enforce them now? none. Give him more rope. He'll hang.

PS - from what we know of you here, you're a really cool guy who's trying hard. Too bad wife doesn't see what she's got.

 

[trinityroyal]

Mikey,

Here is a list of Detachment phrases from the PE archive:
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685

Keep in mind that detachment does NOT mean abandoning. You can continue to be a loving husband and father, and be involved in your family's lives. What it means is refusing to be drawn into a situation that is not of your making, and over which you have no control.

It means that you take whatever steps are required to protect the rest of your family from the destructive effects of McW and wife.

Robby recommended cancelling credit cards, opening a new bank account etc. All very good ideas. If there are other things you can do (removing ALL of McW's financial support, removing access to any luxuries or privileges that come with behaving properly, etc.) then do them.

Support your other son and your daughter, and perhaps get them involved in Alanon, Narcanon, Alateen, etc. so that they can get the support from others who have an addicted family member and know what they're going through.

When your wife is beating up on you for not doing things her way, take a stance clearly and calmly and then walk away. If she says, "You always leave me to handle the hard stuff", then reply, "And you know that I will back you up on whatever you decide to do." Then walk away.

If your wife starts heaping abuse on you, tell her "I will not have you speak to me that way. If you cannot speak to me civilly, then I don't want to hear from you right now." and then walk away.

It means establishing clear boundaries about what you will and will not put up with.
It means being rock-solid-consistent in what you say and do.
It means respecting and loving yourself enough to not accept bad treatment at the hands of others, especially others you love
It means providing support and help WHEN your difficult child or wife has taken the first steps in the direction of helping themselves, and not a moment sooner.

Until they are ready to stop the chaotic and unhealthy dynamic they have going between them, there is nothing you can do about it. What you can do is establish the standard for how people treat YOU.

Keep in mind too, that right now you and wife are modeling for your daughter what a relationship looks like. If you treat yourself with respect then that will give Dancer permission to treat herself with respect too.

My heart breaks for her in this situation.

 

[Shari]

Thanks Trinity - much better put than I did!

 

[trinityroyal]

Funny Shari. I was just thinking the same thing about your post.

 

[Ephchap]

Scary thought, but one I've started to have lately. I'm just not sure how you do that with a spouse of over 20 years, and two other kids in the house who don't deserve to suffer for what their brother is inflicting on the family.

Mikey

Mikey, again I ask ... how do you think it's better for your daughter to be living in a house with all this going on? Do you not think she's affected by all this - her brother ruling the roost and her mom allowing it, while fighting with her dad who is trying to make things better?

I have a daughter who was her age while my son was going through his dark days. Trust me, it bothered her a lot - which is why that was my line in the sand. I could not and would not allow her brother to stay in the home.

Does your wife not understand that your daughter is seeing all this - and living in a stressful home with a substance abusing brother is doing emotional harm to your daughter?

When easy child's live in a home with difficult child's, it does take an emotional toll on them. whether they act out or not. Some internalize it and don't let on how much it bothers them - but it does. Add the substance abuse and outright disrespecting you and your wife, and the emotional toll is more severe. Add in that her mom seems more concerned with keeping her brother there regardless of how it's affecting the family ... and your daughter is going to have more emotional stress to deal with.

Sorry things haven't gotten any better in the Mikey household.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[janebrain]

Mikey,
you have received awesome advice here. I will just add that if my husband allowed me to mistreat him the way your wife mistreats you I would have no respect for him. I do not want him to be so afraid of losing me that he will put up with anything. I don't always like what he says or does and I can fly off the handle pretty easily--especially back when the kids were younger and difficult child 1 was living with us and I was enabling her. But, I really do not want a husband who is afraid of me!

On to Dancer. I so agree with Deb--this turmoil at home is terrible for her to witness. And everyone is putting McWeedy 1st. It may not seem so but that is how it will appear to Dancer. His needs come first, he is the center of attention, he is the one everyone is thinking about all the time. Dancer is not acting out so her needs get pushed to the side. I know--this is what I did with difficult child 1. My 2 other kids who were PCs at the time pretty much got ignored because they were doing what they were supposed to do. Only later did I find out that my older son felt he had no one and my younger dtr developed a dissociative disorder to cope with difficult child 1.

I also think you like these verbal sparring matches with McWeedy--you get so angry and then you get to rant and rave. This is satisfying to you but does not help McWeedy. These kids don't care--they will put up with a ranting parent as long as they can do whatever it is they want to do. He is still controlling the whole household--you let him in! To his mind, who cares about all the yelling, he got back in! I think he knows people will yell, cry, etc. but no one will actually just shut up and let the natural consequences occur.

Sorry to sound harsh, I am just feeling frustrated for and by you! I wish a bunch of us could meet with you in person and hash this all out.

Take care,
Jane

 

[Shari]

Jane, that reminds me...
Mikey, I don't know if you're a Dr Phil lover or hater...personally, I'm not a big fan, but my mom gave me a book a few years back that dealt with changing the way I allow people to treat me. Sounds far fetched, but it was really good, and it did work. By changing the way I acted and reacted, I, in effect, changed the way others acted and reacted to me.
I know, sounds out there.
Trying to think of the name of the book...it was a good read. Might help you, too.

 

[Shari]

I beleive its called Self Matters - I have it and will share if you want it.