What do you say? Or do?

[trinityroyal]

Shari, I remember the book. It's called Self Matters. I read it too, and it made a world of difference in what I would put up with in life. Like you, I'm not a big fan of Dr. Phil, but some of the things he says make sense.

The only thing you can change in your family dynamic is you. How you react (or don't) to things. When and how you choose to participate (or not), etc.

One of the things I remember Dr. Phil saying is, "What's the payoff?"
In other words, what is it that you gain from this unhealthy interaction. Because there must be something, otherwise you wouldn't keep at it. I think Deb might have hit upon something. Perhaps your payoff is permission to blow your top for what you perceive to be a valid reason. I'm not sure, but it's worth looking into.

(If I keep up with the two-centses, I will soon be up to a dollar)

Trinity

 

[Mrs Smith]

"What's the payoff?"
In other words, what is it that you gain from this unhealthy interaction. Because there must be something, otherwise you wouldn't keep at it. I think Deb might have hit upon something. Perhaps your payoff is permission to blow your top for what you perceive to be a valid reason. I'm not sure, but it's worth looking into.

I have a theory (and I say this with affection Mikey since I'm a easy child/difficult child myself and I'm surrounded by gifts-from-God of all varieties)... you can't stop the madness because you thrive on it - it's an adrenalin rush for you...maybe not consciously but reading between the lines of your humorous storytelling - I can practically see the electrical charges zapping around you - you love it, you need it, you gotta have it!

Take up bungie jumping, skydiving, spelunking, long-distance running - get your fix somewhere else. Just a thought -

 

[susiestar]

First off, do you and wife have separate finances? If no, what is UP with the "how will he be able to get the $$$ to pay YOU what he owes YOU?"???

If wife has a job, get your own bank accounts with-o her on them. And REFUSE to pay any credit cards she gives McW to go buy things. Just take your name off of them or cancel them.

If she has NO other source of $$, figure out what she buys (groceries, etc...) and give her that much, plus a small amount more. She will still give McW $$$, and the debit card or credit cards. BUT they will NOT be tied to your earnings. And you won't have to worry about McW using the ATM.

Or:

Go to the bank and have the amount the debit card can be used for LOWERED. That way Mc W can't spend all the $$$ - IF you continue to have her on the same account. They can even impose a max that the card can be used as a credit card for - make this as low as possible.

Take parts of the car out. Expensive ones.

Read the part of love and logic parenting that talks about being a broken record. Actually, Love and Logic might be a much better tool for you to use on wife.

Next time she leaves you to take care of McW - GO SOMEWHERE. Don't wait for him.

My son has been walking upwards of 10-12 miles a day for several years. He now is old enough to drive, but walks a lot anyway.

Why is McW too good to walk???

You have to answer these. And, if you want a real marriage, you have to completely stop letting yourself be abused. It happens in baby steps. But you need Alanon or NarcAnon to help you learn how.

Get the Dr. Phil Book. Go to meetings. If wife leaves you alone to wait for McW - go to a meeting, a movie, a coffeehouse whatever.

I WAS dancer. I had ulcers from the fighting. Read the book Love and Logic parenting - it is about letting natural consequences happen while preserving a loving bond. Develop an EMPATHETIC statement such as, "Wow. That must be rough." Say it over and over as needed when your wife says things you KNOW are designed to let her try to blame you for things.

This whole situation is becoming more and more DANGEROUS for Dancer. What will happen when McW needs $$$ for drugs or booze and one of his friends wants Dancer? And she is home alone? Do you think you have given her the tools to stand up for herself?? Against the bro you ALL let run the household? You don't want to think about what he will pressure her into doing. You really don't.

He. Is. A. Drug. Addict.

None of you mean anything to him other than a source for $$$ for his next fix and a pretty easy life. Yeah, you really want to think he will value his sister over his next fix. But he doesn't. It does happen.

Back. Off. Empathize with wife. Sit. On. Your. Lips. When. She. Sets. You. Up.

Be a father to your other children. What reward do they get for behaving??? I remember wondering if I would get attention, things, etc... if I behaved abominably as my bro did. I promise it has crossed Sarge's and Dancer's minds too.


Susie

 

[everywoman]

Mikey, I have heard you say the same things over and over ad nauseum.

I'm sorry that wife wants to enable. But...you can't change wife....
I'm sorry that your son continues to use..you can't change your son...
And I am most sorry that you can't seem to grasp what we have been trying to tell you for months...you can only change yourself. And you haven't worked to do that. You say you have, but you continue to feed off the behavior of those around you. Change yourself. That comes first!
I've been there done that. I have lived with your son. I have been both you and wife. But, after a short while, I worked to change myself. Then and only then did real changes in my life started taking effect.
Your son is an addict whose first and only love is his drug. He doesn't love anything else. He can't. That doesn't mean all hope is lost. But...your continually believing that your hands are tied is a cop-out. You do have the right to choose. You just choose not to choose anything and let others make the choices for you.
Like my great-grandmother---who was a real difficult child....used to say *hit or get off the pot!! (Pun intended there!)

 

[gottaloveem]

Mikey,
Did you get your wife get your credit card back? If Al, would've left it at his friends house, I would be guaranteed that one of his Evil Friends would've charged on it till it was at limit.

Hope you cancelled it.

Lia

PS: He shouldn't have a car even for work,school, or drug tests. Tell your wife to drive him all over if she is worried about him getting around. But you already know that. I'm glad you smashed up his sim card. What good does it do for you if your son has a cell? He never answers it anyways.

 

[PonyGirl]

Mikey, you said something about if you completely stepped away that you run the risk of McW stomping all over wife and the house, etc.

News flash? He already is.

Peace

 

[nvts]

Hey! Any word on the debit card? I hate to think of that little pain in the pulling any garbage with it.

Hope all's well!

Beth

 

[meowbunny]

We've been telling you the same thing over for months. You've shot down every idea and made excuse after excuse why nothing will work. Well, has your way worked to date? It sounds like the relationship with your wife is worse than ever. McWeedy went from a kid who used to a kid who got arrested, is on probation and getting closer and closer to having probation violated. Maybe it really is time to try our way.

Let's see, if you put your foot down and try to keep it down, wife gets mad. You're afraid she'll divorce you. Sorry, it doesn't sound like much of a marriage right now. Maybe if she really had to choose between a life with you and letting McW keep doing what he wants, she may actually go for forcing McW to do something.

You keep mentioning your Italian manhood and how it forces you to try to stop McW from behaving as he does. Maybe it is time to use that Italian testosterone to help you grow a set. Don't you think it's time you stood up and truly acted like a mensch rather than the household wimp?

Why, pray tell, does he even still have a phone? My daughter lost her phone for a week the first time she didn't answer it when I called. The second time, it was one month. I told her if there was a third time she could get her own phone. It's amazing but now the only time she doesn't answer is when she has forgotten to charge it (and, yes, I still check to see that it has no power -- I pay for it, ergo, it's my phone).

I don't get why this punk is allowed to use the car at all. So what if wife doesn't like the idea of her precious baby taking the bus? He's a danger to himself, his friends and a lot of innocents on the road. How are you guys going to feel when he gets into an accident because he's high and someone gets injured or killed? Do remember, your insurance won't cover him or his car if he was high at the time of the accident. So, you get to live with the fact that an innocent person and their family has been hurt and you risk losing everything you have. Sadly, I have little pity for you and your wife if you do lose everything, but I sure do sorry for the person hurt and for Dancer and Sarge. They won't have deserved it. Yet, YOU'RE willing to take this risk and let it happen.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Dude, I don't even know where to start.

I almost puked when I read that you let him in to go to sleep in his own bed.

This kid OWNS you. TOTALLY.

Next time, CALL THE COPS. OMG.

 

[Coookie]

"Scary thought, but one I've started to have lately. I'm just not sure how you do that with a spouse of over 20 years, and two other kids in the house who don't deserve to suffer for what their brother is inflicting on the family."

I have thought about your last response concerning detaching quite a bit Mikey. I would definitely detach from your wife, only because it seems that relationship has become as toxic as the one with your difficult child (doesn't matter how long you have been married) but I would not detach from the other two kids. I would move closer in helping them with whatever they need help with, being supportive, being there for them.... using all the energy for them that you are using for your difficult child and wife.

I would say that it would cause a divide in doing this with wife but there is already one happening isn't there? Divide and conquer..... seems to be the unwritten motto of our difficult children and as long as yours is being allowed to do this... nothing will change.

I have been checking in here frequently to see how things are going but you haven't posted for awhile. You know we care Mikey.

Still holding good thoughts.

 

[Mikey]

Wow. Well, all I can say is:

1. His phone is gone. I destroyed the SIM card, turned off his account, and refused to do anything to restore service. That phone is permanently dead, despite some harsh words from wife; if she or McW wants to find a way around it, it will be without my help or consent.
2. I've revoked all agreements to pay for any of the costs for his court or substance abuse treatment. He now has to pay for his own drug tests, for the 50 dollar civil settlement fine demanded by the store he stole from, and most importantly the approx. 400 dollars remaining on his Diversion fees. I won't back down on this, and so far wife hasn't gone behind my back to pay for any of this stuff (that I know of).
3. McWeedy finally admitted to being drunk when he came home the other night. I told him in front of wife that that the next time he breaks any house rules about drugs, booze, curfew, or breaking the law, he would see his car parked for sale at the nearest used car junk lot. Believe it or not, but I intend to follow through on that.
4. I've written a letter to the DA handling his case explaining the TRUE facts about McWeedy's life, and asked that when they consider what to do about his violation, they take this information into account. I've strongly suggested court-ordered rehab and then placement in a residential facility, halfway house, or something similar. wife hated it, told me I was "misrepresenting the facts to make McWeedy look bad". Too bad, sez me; I sent it anyway, without changes.
5. I spoke with McW's doctor, and filled him in as well on the "reality" of McWeedy (I was pretty upset that he only has to go to an hour of group, once a week, for fifteen weeks). During the initial evaluation (that we couldn't participate in because of HIPAA laws), McW said "he was a recreational user of booze and pot, no other drugs, and that his Dad was a psychotic whack-job bent on controlling him like he was only 10 years old." When I told the doctor the "truth" about McW, he was a bit tweaked that he didn't have that info before he turned in his evaluation to the DA. by the way, the DA said he could always amend his recommendation if "new information came to light". Maybe it will, during his revocation hearing. wife was pretty upset by that as well.
6. I told wife that I intend to turn McW in to the police the next time I catch him drinking and driving, or if he comes home drunk. Was told that "well, then, he'll just never come home since he knows you'll report him". I said "And???????". More evil, angry stares, more ice, but I don't care. I spent ten minutes waking the neighbors at 12am yelling at McW about the stupidity of driving drunk, underage, without his DL, and while on diversion and facing other charges. Not to mention the liability issues someone else here brought up. wife still wasn't happy about it, but again I don't care. And don't get me started on his killing someone driving drunk; that would require him to actually have enough empathy to care, which simply isn't the case.
7. McWeedy has finally "gotten it" that I won't have anything to do with him anymore until he starts acting like a member of the family. I told him that unless we have "business" (money, legal issues, disturbing the family,etc) that I wouldn't have anything to do with him, good or bad. He understands this because he needs a lot of help to get his artwork ready for the Starbucks display that starts next month; drilling, sawing, assembly, etc. He told his mother he was WAY behind, and he "knew Dad wasn't going to give him ten seconds of help". I intend to keep it that way; when he acts like a son, I will treat him like a son. Otherwise, I will continue to treat him like a bad college roommate that I can't get rid of.
8. Also, no can do on the new CC's or anything else that attempts to limit wife's access to family funds. In this state, the only legal way I can do that is to be divorced, legally separated, or have filed for a legal "separation of estates". Other than those three, what's mine is hers, and vice versa. Nothing I can do about it.

It's a start, and more of a stand than I've taken for years. wife is already talking divorce, and has gone into permanent ice queen mode, but I don't care. I don't know that Sarge gives a hill of beans at this point, since his stress threshold is already maxxed by his premed and he rarely involves himself in family issues. Dancer is getting as much of my extra time as I can possibly give her.

I also intend to start (this weekend) taking the keys away from McW whenever he doesn't have to use the car, and locking the door at 10 minutes past curfew and going to bed. If wife wants to let him in, then she can get up and let him in. So I'll probably end up divorced, McW will end up God-knows-where, and Dancer will end up with my wife still suffering from the McWeedy drama, but at least I did something, right?

Sheesh.

Mikey

 

[Coookie]

Mikey,

The first harsh step is always terrifying. But you have done it. Keep reassuring wife that this is because you love her and your difficult child and want the drama to stop.... and the help to begin...Tough Love... but don't bend because it will hurt you and them in the end.

My heart goes out to you but I truly believe that no changes can start until all other "targets" (meaning you) are removed and they have nothing to center on except themselves.

I will continue to keep you in my thoughts.

P.S. Ice does eventually melt.

 

[Ephchap]

Although I know that everyone has the best of intentions and obviously care about the situation of a board member, and though it does get frustrating sometimes hearing that things aren't progressing, ...

I would like to remind everyone that what works for one, doesn't work for all ...

and to remember that this is a soft place to land. Let's try to stay commited to that.

Mikey, hoping things are okay with you and yours.

Deb

 

[DDD]

Each of us has to find the path that we believe is right for our family.
I hope your choices will bring the results you hope for. Meanwhile, I
do keep your family in my thoughts and prayers. DDD

 

[Mikey]

Each of us has to find the path that we believe is right for our family.
I hope your choices will bring the results you hope for. Meanwhile, I
do keep your family in my thoughts and prayers. DDD

DDD, thank you very much. I appreciate your prayers. It's tough being torn between two "bad" choices.

And, as a side note, I really do appreciate the prayers. Just last night, I had an interesting phone call with one of the few other adults who are committed to trying to help McWeedy. She said that she hadn't been "around" for a few days because she'd slipped on some ice and hurt her back. However, during the comprehensive exam, they discovered lumps in her chest.

She has a family history of cancer, and has three family members currently in terminal stages of various forms of cancer. Her doctor told her that he felt very strongly it was cancer, and ordered immediate tests - and scheduled an OR, just in case, for immediate surgery.

To make a long story short, the night before her final round of tests, her parents organized a prayer group at her house for her. She said it was many hours of hard, intense, prayer.

The next day, they couldn't find the lumps. Gone - completely gone.

I don't tell this story to try and convert anyone. But she said that she intended to tell McW this story because, as she says, "Never say never, never give up. It's never too late". She thought she was going to die, and received a reprieve. She hopes to convince McW that, no matter how far gone you think you are, there's always the chance to pull back from the brink before going over the edge.

It's not like he hasn't heard it before, but at least this time its coming from someone other than his whack-job psycho dad. She's going to try and give my son some hope, and in the process she gave me a little hope, too.

So, again, thank you for your prayers.

Mikey

 

[susiestar]

I am sorry this is so scary. I also keep you in my prayers. You are one of the most charismatic writers on the board, and I know many of us seem frustrated, but we CARE. I think in time you will see results, and so will wife.

As Cookie said, Ice does melt.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[Mikey]

I am sorry this is so scary. I also keep you in my prayers. You are one of the most charismatic writers on the board, and I know many of us seem frustrated, but we CARE. I think in time you will see results, and so will wife.

As Cookie said, Ice does melt.

Hugs,

Susie

Thanks Susie. I know you guys care, otherwise why would I keep coming back?

Despite being male, and Italian, I'm not the bulldozer type. I used to be, a long time ago, but once I was out of the military I had to learn the hard way (and quick) that consensus building was the only way to be successful out of uniform.

While my anger and testosterone will boil over at times, it's not my style. I'm learning that consensus building may not be the way to go, either, but I had to try. But, as so many folks on this thread have pointed out, maybe the divide is already there, and it's time to start acting on facts instead of what I want reality to be. I've made a start, and I hope at some point to find wife standing with me, but I've committed to this path for good or ill.

Hopefully, it'll be for good.

Mikey

 

[meowbunny]

Mikey, I'm proud of you and hope you can stick to your word. I found the worst thing I could do was back down. It was a pass to do whatever is wanted and Mom's wrath be damned.

Hopefully, your wife will come to see that you're fighting to save your marriage, your family and your son rather than trying to be the house bully. She may be (okay, is!) angry right now but this may be the way to go.

I turned my daughter into a tenant when she didn't want to contribute to making this a home. It hurt like crazy. I wanted to do things with her. I wanted to kiss her good night. I wanted to cuddle and watch TV with her. This was not to be until she came around. She actually came around quicker than I thought she would. I also understood I took the risk of losing her forever. I was lucky. I hope you are, too.

I truly hope things go the way they deserve to go -- your wife becomes your mate again, your son gets himself into rehab and quits using, Sarge succeeds in premed, Dancer gets back the loving family she needs and deserves. I wish you all the very best.

 

[janebrain]

Wow, Mikey! I'm very impressed. Sounds like you had your "done" moment and are acting on it. Remember, we are all here to support you, behind you all the way. I think you are absolutely doing the best and right thing for everyone involved. I agree with Cookie, you have taken yourself out of the equation, now wife and McW will have to face themselves without getting sidetracked by you--you can no longer be a target for them. Keep us posted, we are sure hoping for the best possible outcome.
Hugs,
jane

 

[Mikey]

Mrs. Smith, re:

have a theory (and I say this with affection Mikey since I'm a easy child/difficult child myself and I'm surrounded by gifts-from-God of all varieties)... you can't stop the madness because you thrive on it - it's an adrenalin rush for you...maybe not consciously but reading between the lines of your humorous storytelling - I can practically see the electrical charges zapping around you - you love it, you need it, you gotta have it!

I know you meant it in a good-natured way, but I'd like to clarify something: I most certainly do NOT enjoy conflict. I like nothing more than a quiet evening with my family, without drama - something I haven't had for over two years now.

My passions are reading and writing. I read to escape, and I write to escape and vent and think. The emotion and charges you see in my writing are, without doubt, the anger, frustration, and fear coming out in the only way I know how to express them. When I'm forced to speak under those types of conditions, I usually end up in a huge argument that is completely unproductive; this is largely because of my ADD. Sadly, McWeedy has learned the fine art of twisting my ADD, confused thoughts, and latent Type "A" personality against me in "discussions" - which is why they usually end up as arguments.

To avoid such arguments and try to get my "real" feelings across to him, I would write him very heartfelt, eloquent letters. I would try to explain how I felt, what was happening, what I/we thought the consequences were for his actions, and offer him help, hope, and support if he'd just be willing to work with me. They are, without doubt, some of the most eloquent prose I've ever written.

And they all went straight into the trash, unread.

I can't talk to him without arguing, so we don't speak. I can't write to him, because he papers his bird cage with my letters. wife runs everything I say through her "mommy filter" before McWeedy hears it, so he never hears my actual message when relayed that way. Consequently, I don't have any way of effectively communicating with him.

Therefore, I write. I write what I feel. I write about what I want to happen, what I wish would happen, and what has already happened. I write to organize my own thoughts, in words, because it's the only way I can make sure that I "really think what I thought I thunk"

Fortunately or no, CD has been the place where I write. I can honestly say that I value EVERYONE's opinion, but writing here is more of a way for me to deal with the stress and emotions of the McWeedy drama. In essence, it's more of a blog, but in a place where people understand what I'm saying instead of in the general global cesspool that is the Internet blogosphere.

That's probably more than you wanted to hear, but I felt that your candid and caring remarks deserved a candid and honest reply. Hopefully, when you read what I write in the future, along with reading the actual "post" you'll hear my own inner struggle to find my way. It's the only way I know how to stay sane.

Mikey