What do you think?

[New Leaf]

Well, I am having good days and not so good since hubs passed. It is a one day at a time, one foot forward kind of challenge. I am trying to keep my head above water and be strong for my son. I do have my moments when there is this huge void. Of course.......that is it in a nutshell, there is so much to be done on top of the emotional roller coaster.
My question is due to my Blossom prodding me to meet Rain "half way". She has been visiting her weekly at the park where she lives, taking her canned goods and some essentials. "Dad would want the family to be together." She said. "Just go and see her, maybe bring her some food.......it may help her......"
I have to tell you, at this point the thought scares me. I love her deeply, but so much has happened between us for so many years. I have been her target (as you know from my posts) in the triangulation game, and I do not feel up for manipulation or the usual look of hatred in her eyes. According to her sister, Rain is on a waiting list for a shelter.......I don't know guys. I would think she would need rehab to get off the meth, get on her feet. I have worked so hard to move past all of this and the combination of my two daughters using drugs, using us, tugging at my heart, plus grieving over my husband seems such a heavy load.
As I write this, there is a twinge of guilt. She is my daughter. I love her. But, loving her has been so, so hard on me. Every time I have reached out, I have been burned. According to her, it is all my fault (sound familiar?), and I have worked hard to remind myself that I made mistakes but for the most part was a loving mom. On the other hand, past the guilt twinge, there is a "warning do not enter" sign flashing in my head. I am in self protect mode. I saw no signs of remorse or change, kind of a flat affect throughout my husbands life celebration.
I think I will sit with the idea a bit before doing anything.
There is a small battle waging in my heart.......and a burning in my stomach.
Any of your ideas and advice will be most appreciated.
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

my Blossom prodding me to meet Rain "half way". She has been visiting her weekly at the park where she lives, taking her canned goods and some essentials. "Dad would want the family to be together." She said. "Just go and see her, maybe bring her some food.......it may help her......"

Only you can decide, New Leaf. Whether or not you are strong enough and what is right for you.

I will speak for myself here: I have decided and I keep deciding despite back falls that I want to support my son to change if he chooses and I do not lose sight (often) that it is his choice and responsibility, his life. I think that is our hook, when we accept either responsibility or blame. I see you as strong in not accepting responsibility. I see you as more vulnerable around blame. That is why she uses it against you--because it works.

I would not be pressured by Blossom. She is free to know herself what to do and to do it. This is your responsibility to decide for yourself, but unmotivated by guilt.

I understand Blosson's view: that her father would have wanted his family united and would want the family to love Rain and to do what they could do so that she did not feel alone in the world or have to struggle alone. From everything you have written about your husband it sounds like his sense of family and family responsibility was, very very strong and he loved his family a great deal. It sounds like Blossom is representing well what her Dad would have wanted.

But on the other hand, what he wanted and needed was in collision sometimes with what are your own needs. Nobody can do or should do what they cannot do. To do otherwise is to do wrong, because we will not be able to stand and to take responsibility if we cannot own and complete the promise we make. By taking on a thing--and being unable to complete it or unwilling to do so--we harm ourselves and risk harming the other.

That is the struggle I am having with my son, I think. I think sometimes I am beyond my depth. M pushes me forward and I struggle and fail myself--until I can find my footing. I do and then I recommit. But right now you are standing alone without the support of anybody, really, in shouldering the pains and aches and needs of those you love. So there is risk, for you and for Rain, should you be unable to tolerate contact with her.

Perhaps there is a middle ground: Going with somebody you trust. Maybe somebody in the extended family, around whom she may call upon her best.

Bringing her canned food. Hugging her and telling her you love her. And leaving. Just a baby step. As you say. To offer her hope, and you too. For more, someday. What I would not do is in any way get involved in advocating or pushing for her to get treatment. Not at this point, where there is doubt and pain and shame. She will turn on you, I think. She knows what she needs to do.

But the risk in this is that she use you as her whipping boy--that she use your vulnerability, your step to make yourself vulnerable as a way to put into you, her own suffering and vulnerability--by blaming you and lashing out. I would fear that. She has shown that she can go there, however much we can understand this and forgive it.

Maybe you could make up a basket, for Blossom to bring: with food and cream and soap and some gift certificates for McDonalds and stuff you know she loves, whatever it is. Or put it in a nice new tote bag. And a beautiful letter that sings your love and hope. With a picture of her father, maybe with her, too. And tell her when she is ready, you are there. That maybe at a time of her and your choosing you can meet, when she can do it.

That way you are putting the responsibility and the choice on her. Because if she chooses, she will be making the implicit promise that she will come to you not to rage or blame, but to be with you to create a future. And if she reneges on this implicit promise she will bear the responsibility for having chosen wrongly, not you.

Your decision is to decide what you can do. Safely. For her and for you. And for the entire family, too.

 

[New Leaf]

Thank you Copa, I have been following along with keen concern and interest your posts on your journey with your son. It is because there is something huge to reaching out, to being that mom who continues to love her child no matter what. Your son has made some strides that show he is open to learn and grow. But I know it must be hard for you, too.
I do love Rain. I would not, could not have her home here, it wouldn't work. Different circumstances, but then again, maybe not.
I do not know her capacity since this drug use.

Bringing her canned food. Hugging her and telling her you love her. And leaving. Just a baby step. As you say. To offer her hope, and you too. For more, someday. What I would not do is in any way get involved in advocating or pushing for her to get treatment. Not at this point, where there is doubt and pain and shame. She will turn on you, I think. She knows what she needs to do.

I will think on this. I am a terrible baby step person to tell you the truth. I am an "all in" person, diving head first into the deep end. I am also thinking of Jmom who posted in March about buying her son a tent because he was homeless. She visited him and helped him here and there. There is much to weigh on this.
I have stopped talking with both my daughters about options for rehab or anything. They know. It was never taken as helpful, met with sneers or eyeball rolling. No sense pulling the tail of an angry cat.
Thank you Copa for your thoughts on this. I truly appreciate your insight.
Leafy

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

On the other hand, past the guilt twinge, there is a "warning do not enter" sign flashing in my head. I am in self protect mode. I saw no signs of remorse or change, kind of a flat affect throughout my husbands life celebration.
I think I will sit with the idea a bit before doing anything.

This is a wise choice, New Leaf. Because we love them so, things happen very fast once we reach out. The danger for Rain in your re-involvement is that, especially now when you are so vulnerable yourself, the risk of enabling the addicted lifestyle is very great. There is a reason you have chosen the path you are following now, with Rain. I am sorry for the pain in it, Leafy.

I am pleased for you that Blossom and Rain see one another. You know Rain is alive. Where there is life, there is hope. Rain knows she has family who love her.

Sending strength, Leafy. I am very sorry this is happening.

Cedar

 

[New Leaf]

Cedar, thank you so much for your response.

The danger for Rain in your re-involvement is that, especially now when you are so vulnerable yourself, the risk of enabling the addicted lifestyle is very great.

This is true. I think to myself, if I go and visit her at the park, bring canned goods, am I buying into her lifestyle? I am also reminded that when she has come to the house, she helps herself to our supplies without asking. It is disrespectful, feeling entitled.

There is a reason you have chosen the path you are following now, with Rain. I am sorry for the pain in it, Leafy.

it is painful, Cedar. Rain is not a child, she is near 37. I have been dealing with this for 20 years now. Yes, there is a reason for this path, I feel that I can't trust her, or myself for that matter. It is because I fall for it too easy, the hope that maybe this time, it will be different, times the infinite "this time" we have tried.......So yes, the path that I have chosen is as Maya Angelou spoke "When people show you who they are, believe them." So, I think for now, I will continue to sit with my feelings and do what I need to do to take care of my business. In the meantime, if Rain enters rehab, or starts to show me differently, I can proceed with caution. When Blossom goes to see Rain, she has her very large husband with her. I have to remind Blossom and myself that Rain has loomed over me menacingly, that she is unstable on meth and that the park where she is, is not a safe place for me to be.

I am pleased for you that Blossom and Rain see one another. You know Rain is alive. Where there is life, there is hope. Rain knows she has family who love her.

I am glad that they are able to speak now, and see one another. They are very close in age, and were best friends growing up. Perhaps this bond will help Rain find her way to different choices.

Sending strength, Leafy. I am very sorry this is happening.

Thank you Cedar. I do need all of the strength I can muster. I don't want to ever sink to the despair I felt over my two. It is a grieving of the hardest sort. That, coupled wth grieving hubs passing is just too, too much. So, I will keep my guard up and focus on the home front. Blossom will have to be okay with my sitting with my feelings for now. I do have support from Hoku, she is adamantly against the notion. She has witnessed much more than Blossom. Son is not cozy with the idea as well.
It is up to me to choose what I will do. But, there is time to think it through. If one thing I have learned from dealing with this for so long, and from my time spent here, is that I need to take care of me. Because I matter. My peace of mind matters.
Thank you Cedar, very much.
Leafy

 

[Kalahou]

Leaf dear,
Thoughts are with you. I’m always thankful to see you back on the site.
Today is an awesome day in paradise, ya! … Lucky we live ...

Blossom prodding me to meet Rain "half way".

I think there is no meeting "half way.” What does “half way” mean? No. I think there is no “half way” in your situation with Rain, with what has transpired over the past years. There is no place or reason for you going to the park. It is Blossom that appears to want the reconciliation, not Rain.

If Rain wants it, it is up to Rain to want to do what’s needed, if she wants any relationship back with you … if she is committed to do what is needed for the required changes (including and especially drug recovery.)

I know your love for her is there … your feeling of responsibility and of desire to help your child is there under the surface. My feeling is that if your feeling of love and responsibility urges you to need to do something … that if you want her to know that there could be a door for her to find you, if and when she is ever ready for change … you could send a brief note (only a note, no goodies and presents) … via Blossom … and even being truthful that it is because of Blossom’s concern that you are writing. I see nothing wrong in wanting to share your truth that :
· you know she hurts
· you know she is learning hard lessons that must be learned before she is ready for change
· you know she is making decisions for her future (good or bad)
· you know she can have so much more in her life if she wanted it, but it is up to her to want it enough
· and that she knows what to do if she wanted to change and where to get help if she wants.

You could express that if she is ever at a point to want change enough to commit to the actions needed to make it happen, that you are there to help lift up with love and encouragement, only as she makes the efforts to climb on her own.

How hard this is for us all. Malama pono, dear. Aloha - HA ...
Kalahou

 

[Albatross]

Leafy, I have been thinking about your post this afternoon, and now that I am finally able to respond I see that others have much the same thoughts.

I think this reconciliation that Blossom seeks is for Blossom; it is a way for her to process and find meaning in your husband's death. She is making you part of her desire to have a happy ending.

If I am out of turn to say this, Leafy, I apologize...but I don't think it is fair to YOU for anyone to ask you to do that, to ask you to force anything right now. And I also don't think that Blossom understands with the depth you do the implications of Rain's issues, and their ramifications if you open a door (both literally and figuratively) right now.

No doubt your husband would want a reconciliation, but I don't see him wanting you to go against your heart, force something that you know from long experience cannot be received right now, put yourself in an unsafe position, or cause yourself any undue stress for ANY reason at this time. I might be out of turn to say that also, Leafy. I did not know your husband, only what you have written about him. But that is what I picture, when I think about the reconciliation I would envision. My dream would be that a reconciliation would be initiated by the changes and overtures that would come from RAIN.

Again, Leafy, I am sorry if I do not know what I am talking about, but I am glad you are sitting back and letting all of this gel. I am glad you are getting support from Hoku and Son. I am glad you are listening to your heart.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Hi New,

A wise one on this forum told me years ago that my son would find a way to let me know when and if he has changed.

Those words have helped husband and me immensely. First, because it is obviously the common.sense.truth. And also, because our son has "reached out to us" more than once to let us know he has changed in his feelings toward us. And, in a few days time, every single time, it is evident, he has not.

It sounds right to me that Blossom wants to set things right and her heart is in the right place. This is admirable on her part. Yet, you have the history and experience to proceed with caution.

My advice for your peace and well-being is to sit tight. Anything you do to reach out to Rain will do nothing to help her if she is not ready. It could, quite probably, hurt you.

And, Rain will find a way to let you know if she is ready.

My thoughts. My Difficult Child is 35.

Hugs,
SS

 

[New Leaf]

No. I think there is no “half way” in your situation with Rain, with what has transpired over the past years. There is no place or reason for you going to the park. It is Blossom that appears to want the reconciliation, not Rain.

This is true, Kalahou. It is Blossom taking the initiative, this is something she wants to see happen. I am thinking of Rains sudden marriage years past to an immigrant with no papers. I was skeptical and protective, seeing red flags. Blossom said "Can't you just be happy for her? She is happy." I tried, but I felt my job as her mother was to speak up. I didn't harp or nag, just mentioned my reservations and concern. Of course, that did not go over well. Unfortunately the marriage was a fail in every which way, he was a terrible husband, just wanted his papers and put Rain and all of us through a hellish ride......I am sad that my intuition was true, and the whole fiasco of this "relationship" did end up pushing Rain over the edge. Blossoms words echo...."can't you just be happy for her......" intertwined with the whole "meet her half way". I have gone more than half way and then some, to no avail. It has always been thrown back in my face.

if she wants any relationship back with you … if she is committed to do what is needed for the required changes (including and especially drug recovery.)

This is what my gut feeling is. I must truthfully tell you that in the back of my head is a nagging little voice that says "what if something happens to her......"

You could express that if she is ever at a point to want change enough to commit to the actions needed to make it happen, that you are there to help lift up with love and encouragement, only as she makes the efforts to climb on her own.

I will think on this. The written word can always get misconstrued, read the wrong way between the lines. It has been happening with any communication for a long time now, anything I say gets twisted around somehow. Hubs told me that last altercation Rain and I had a few months ago "Just don't even talk to her, there is no sense to that, anything you say just triggers her." He also said that she was an addict, plain and simple and that her drug use may never change. He was willing to live with that, wash her clothes, have her shower, fix a meal, maybe even gave her money, I don't know. All I know is that I became her enemy somehow. That hurts a lot. But, it is because I will not accept this meth life she has chosen. I didn't want her to come to the house and just take whatever she wanted, then disappear like a zombie only to show up again as she pleased. It was too much. It is too much. I feel like meeting her halfway is an open invitation to that.

I think this reconciliation that Blossom seeks is for Blossom; it is a way for her to process and find meaning in your husband's death. She is making you part of her desire to have a happy ending.

Yes, she is and who could blame her? Of course it is what we all want, for the drama and chaos to end, for Rain and Tornado and the grands. For us to be able to have a tight family, not the schisms that drugs have ripped through our ohana. That is not something any of us have any control over, unfortunately. At this point, I don't feel my reaching out to them will make a difference, especially if they are not moved by their own conscience to change their lifestyle. They have lost their father, what more does life have to show them, for them to see the desperation of their choices? For them to know that life is entirely too short?

If I am out of turn to say this, Leafy, I apologize...but I don't think it is fair to YOU for anyone to ask you to do that, to ask you to force anything right now.

Oh, Albie, you don't have to apologize. I wrote this hoping for honest opinions and appreciate different perspectives that I can ruminate over. I understand where Blossom is coming from, I do, but she will have to understand my feelings on this matter.

Again, Leafy, I am sorry if I do not know what I am talking about, but I am glad you are sitting back and letting all of this gel. I am glad you are getting support from Hoku and Son. I am glad you are listening to your heart.

Thank you Albie, truly. It is written from your heart and I am grateful for your words. It is a hard road we are all on, our hearts are so torn. I am sometimes wondering if I have swung to far to the other side, in self protect mode. I do not want to grow cold. I am not cold, it has just been too many years of this.
Tomorrow we are going on an early trek to hubs resting place, the beach he so loved. Blossom is bringing Rain, so I will see her. I think that is okay. I honestly don't think I could stand going to the park where she lives. That will have to do for now. If we have family outings and Blossom brings Rain, so be it. I will hug her tight and tell her I love her.

A wise one on this forum told me years ago that my son would find a way to let me know when and if he has changed.

Thank you SS. I have often thought that myself. That I would know by her actions. I think that Blossom has a sense of urgency due to her dad passing so suddenly and unexpectedly. I would hate for anything to happen to any of my children, but the thought for my two is there in the back of my mind more so because of their choices. I am sure this is true for many of us. The fear of that phone call.
None of us got to say goodbye to hubs, to tell him how much we loved him. This motivates me to ponder on the notion of having some limited contact. Just to be able to tell them how much I love them. How to find the balance and protect the heart is the conundrum.

And also, because our son has "reached out to us" more than once to let us know he has changed in his feelings toward us. And, in a few days time, every single time, it is evident, he has not.

I am so sorry for the pain of this, Seeking. I know how hard this is, and it is exactly my experience as well. We are such easy marks, targeted. How it hurts to get ones hopes up to be dashed and twisted. I am tired of it. Really and truly. Trust issues, not just for theft of property, but for fear of a broken heart. How many, many months I have spent here, typing out my feelings, responding to others in a similar predicament, it is a repetition to myself, to remind myself to stand firm and strong, to be guarded. I don't want to spend the rest of my life bereft and broken due to the choices of my two.

It sounds right to me that Blossom wants to set things right and her heart is in the right place. This is admirable on her part. Yet, you have the history and experience to proceed with caution.

This is true. For Blossom, it is the disappointment. She lived it vicariously through the tales of woe spoken, not so much firsthand, as she was on her own with her family.Not to say that she has not been affected, of course she has. Before her dad passed, she had pretty much detached completely, and was very angry at her sisters actions and words as well as the fact that she was missing through much of hubs illness. I think his passing has spurred her towards trying to "help" Rain, to reach out to her. I am glad for this. I hope it works. Only time will tell.

My advice for your peace and well-being is to sit tight. Anything you do to reach out to Rain will do nothing to help her if she is not ready. It could, quite probably, hurt you.

This is what I fear. The extreme hurt on top of everything I am already going through. I have to keep my head straight and focus on my son, myself. I have to start anew, learn to live all over on my own. I have to figure out how we are going to make it work, not just getting over this huge chasm, this loss. In every which way, mentally, physically and financially. It is exhausting thinking about it. I do not need to add to that.

And, Rain will find a way to let you know if she is ready.

My thoughts. My Difficult Child is 35.

I do so appreciate your thoughts. You have been at this for a long haul as well. It is draining. It is a sad fact when a parent has to take protective measures from the wanton sting of an addicted adult child. Darkwing writes of it not being intentional, that it is the drugs that drive the acts. Still, that fact does not alleviate the grief suffered.
I do believe that Rain will find a way. Right now, that way for me will be rehab. That is my sign that she is ready to make a change. One word that Darkwing mentions....... humility. That would be a huge indicator. Even then, it would take some time for me to believe it.
This time though, I shall have to set my terms. Blossom will have to understand that at this juncture, I am protecting myself with a large shield of been there, done that. It is not only because of what has transpired in the recent past, I am painfully aware of how vulnerable I am now.
I do not want to fall prey to anyone, least of all my adult children.
Thank you all so very much for your responses.
There is much sorrow in the circumstances that brought us here to CD, yet still, you are all truly shining lights on a cold dark night, a kind and understanding shoulder to lean on, a loving voice that soothes the soul like a warm cup of tea.
I am forever grateful for your time and help.
Mahalo nui
Leafy

 

[ColleenB]

I have no words of wisdom Leafy... Just wanted to let you know I am sending you warm vibes and loving thoughts.... Grief is so hard.

I think you know what's best with your daughter. You will make the right choice

Take care....

 

[Childofmine]

New Leaf, just a few thoughts in concert with what others have said.

Listen to your own instincts. Even if they are confusing. Danger and love. You are feeling danger in getting involved with her---rightly so---and love for her and wanting to honor your husband. Of course both are true.

It's interesting that Blossom is reaching out for Rain. Not Rain. This is triangulation, of course. In a softer sense, it is advocacy. But it in no way signals that Rain is ready or different or will respond in any type of healthy way. That is dangerous. For you.

Maybe you could make up a basket, for Blossom to bring: with food and cream and soap and some gift certificates for McDonalds and stuff you know she loves, whatever it is. Or put it in a nice new tote bag. And a beautiful letter that sings your love and hope. With a picture of her father, maybe with her, too. And tell her when she is ready, you are there. That maybe at a time of her and your choosing you can meet, when she can do it.

If you want to do something here, and boy do I understand that impulse...wait a day or two and then construct something like this that provides several layers of protection for you.

No direct contact. But allows you to say your piece (in a letter) and do SOMETHING in your husband's name.

But if you don't right now, that is good too.

I would be very cautious and wary and self-protective. I know you are very strong and have a lot of good recovery under your belt, but you are also vulnerable in your profound grief. You don't need any more grief right now or pain or drama or bs.

Take care of YOU first. Protect YOU first. You are #1 here. Supremo.

We're here for you.

 

[Ironbutterfly]

Leafy- I think your husband yes, would want reconciliation if possible with Rain. But I also think he was extremely loyal to you above all else over Rain. He knows Rain caused heartache and pain for you. He would want you to take care of you first and foremost.

I think the idea of the basket from Copa would be an ice breaker. I don't think I would share any feelings or emotions like with a card "Love you". Keep emotions at bay. The gift basket speaks volumes. If you sent a card that said I love you, etc, feel it would back fire with her saying something like Oh yeah right, if she loved me blah blah blah. The basket is an expression of kindness. We love our children but sometimes we don't like them. I also agree if you met her in person, avoid any suggestions of what she should do. It's her life, her choices.

I had to reopen the door with relationship with Difficult Child after not talking, seeing him for about 6 months, it was scary, but I went slow and didn't let my heart open up too much. Do only what you feel you can do. You are still grieving the loss of your husband; so many emotions with just that and you don't need to reopen yourself to Rain when she is not at the point in her life that she wants to change her life.

 

[Copabanana]

I am also thinking of Jmom who posted in March about buying her son a tent because he was homeless. She visited him and helped him here and there.

Yes. Her's and his was a beautiful story.

There is a difference that leaps out at me. First, J, the son, was very young. While I do not remember how long he had been homeless and out there with drug use, it was not like with Rain. Rain is your oldest, I know. I do not know how old but I believe she is well over 30, almost double's J's age, who was little more than a boy. Rain has been out there for years and years.

Yes she is sweet. But life has cast her into an extreme and enduring position. She can change but her walk back will take time, commitment and the willingness on her part to humble herself. Has she shown that? However much you surely do have a part in this (we all do), it cannot be you who walks to her. She must begin and then come some more before it is clear that she is committed to changing.

JMom's son was young and sweet. I believe she believed he was vulnerable. While she was hurt, she never seemed afraid. And then there is JMOM's job. She is a cop. While work is different, she is trained and accustomed to be out there, to contain and guard her emotions.

I get Rain and Tornado mixed up sometimes. I remember the one who was mad in the hospital. And I remember the daughter who kept showing up at the house and your land. Maybe this is Tornado, not Rain. And then the caution of her trying to hurt or berate you, is not warranted--if Rain does not do so.

But New Leaf, you are newly widowed. How much can you take? How much can you ask of yourself, really? What do you really have to offer and to freely give, right now?

Yes, she is your daughter but this makes it harder, not easier. And all the more, it gives her the responsibility to do more, especially at the beginning as she may be pivoting towards recovery and normalcy. She is the one who has chosen to separate herself from nearly everything that is normative and normal, everything that we consider to be sustaining and safe and secure and conventional. How is it your responsibility to walk that road back to her? When she has been the one who has walked away from everything that you and her father represent?

I am not saying never. I am saying now. There are so many ways you can convey to her your love, and your absence of malice and your openness to the possibility someday to a relationship. Without offering yourself up for sacrifice. Even if she were not to hurt you, you will inevitably be hurt. She will look vulnerable. Maybe unhealthy. She may look damaged. Older.

What really can you give her, New Leaf, right now, that will not cost you everything that you have (and cannot afford to give)?

JMom was not in this position. Not any of the particulars are alike.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

If you want to do something here, and boy do I understand that impulse...wait a day or two and then construct something like this that provides several layers of protection for you.

The impossible battle for me in learning how not to enable was twofold. The first part was understanding that I was teaching my children to view themselves as beggars. And I was teaching myself to see them that way, too. How awful for all of us! When our children are in trouble ~ and they are, and it is bad trouble, when they are addicted and have nothing and live in dangerous places and we don't know whether...and we do not know what is coming for them next ~ we need to review whatever we know about enabling. I had to do that. I found strength there to combat the love and the guilt and the love and that whole cognitive dissonance place Recovering named FOG. I would get destroyed in that FOG place.

The other piece was reviewing all I had done, and what the outcome had been. My children too were adults when this was happening to me, Leafy. We had a history together, my children and me. And I needed to change somehow, what was happening to all of us without destroying myself from the heart out.

It helped me to know what I needed to see before I could allow myself to help.

That gave me strength, because it gave me a place to stand that made sense to me.

Rain cannot help her addiction now, Leafy. It has her. You cannot not be addicted, for her. It comforted me, in the dark nights, to understand that there was a time I would help, but that the time was not now, lest I destroy the child's strength to do battle with the addiction. They call it "bringing the bottom up", but I couldn't hear that.

I could hear something that applied to me in terms of the enabling I was doing. I could hear that, in my heart.

I could hear something that applied to me in that thinking that once the child (and mine were in their thirties too, before I had been here long enough to learn how to manage myself in relation to the pain and loss and hope and FOG) that once the adult child showed progress, then I could help wholeheartedly. That made it possible for me to sit with the feelings without losing myself in the feelings.

Now, with those years and those losses behind us, I see all of it as the way love looked, then, for all of us, given what my children were facing ~ given the trap they were in because they were addicted. It wasn't what I wanted, Leafy. But it wasn't what they wanted our lives to be, either. It was the best way I knew to love them and myself and all of us where we were. The ten thousand mistakes I made, and the decision to forgive myself for them, lest they eat me alive, that was an important piece, too. Forgive yourself Leafy, that you cannot change this for Rain.

This is how you are loving Rain now, Leafy. For her sake, and for your own. You did not create this. But the thing is, Rain did not create it, either.

Addiction is addiction. It is an ugly and destructive thing. If Rain beats it, she will have to recreate her life from that point. She can do it, if she is strong. If you are strong, too. Believe she is strong enough to come back from it, Leafy.

As I write this, my children are making their ways back into creating the lives they want. But Leafy, if I had not been able to stop helping...I don't know. I don't know what might have happened. But I do know addiction is an awful thing. Your child, whatever her age, is still your child. It helped me to remember: It is the situation that is bad. Not me. Not my child.

It helped me, a little, to remember that.

Cedar

 

[pasajes4]

I will add my prayers for strength and clarity. My dear Leafy it is a heartbreaking situation. You have every right to do what you know is right. Blossom has found her place in Rains life. This is her blessing.

 

[mom_to_3]

So sorry for your pain. <3

I think you should follow your instincts as I always found mine to be true. When Rain is clean and healed and ready for an honest relationship with you, she will come to you. She will come to you.

You didn't leave her and you have not stopped loving her. She will come to you. <3

 

[Sister's Keeper]

My opinion only.

I think right now that you are too emotionally fragile and vulnerable, and understandably so, to risk your heart.

You need time to grieve, to heal, so that if you do want to attempt a reconciliation of any sort you are able to withstand the emotional pain if it does not work out.

You just had a HUGE loss in your life and it has left a HUGE empty space. You may, subconsciously, attempt to fill that void with your lost child. It may end up creating an enabling situation for her and a hurtful situation for you, that you aren't ready to withstand.

It's not fair to guilt you by telling you what your husband would want. What your husband would want was for you to be happy and at peace.

Follow your heart. Grieve in your own way and in your own time. It's a process. When you are ready, if you ever are, you will know.

 

[Hopingforthe best]

My prayers and good will goes out to you New Leaf. I have caught up with your story and my heart aches just thinking of what you have gone through. My condolences to you on the passing of your husband. I don't have anything to add to what excellent advice everyone has give you, except wish you peace and serenity as you navigate this very hard and painful period.

 

[New Leaf]

Listen to your own instincts. Even if they are confusing. Danger and love. You are feeling danger in getting involved with her---rightly so---and love for her and wanting to honor your husband. Of course both are true.

Thank you Com, this is so true, there is a danger getting involved. It is a hard enough time processing all of this without adding to it.

In a softer sense, it is advocacy. But it in no way signals that Rain is ready or different or will respond in any type of healthy way. That is dangerous. For you.

This is what I have been thinking as well, the danger. Rain is not initiating this, Blossom is. Her intentions are good, but I do not think she is understanding the dynamics of addiction. If Rain is not looking to change, to stop using, that infiltrates to using those who love her to meet that end, the next high.

No direct contact. But allows you to say your piece (in a letter) and do SOMETHING in your husband's name.
But if you don't right now, that is good too.

I would have to think long and hard on any communication because in the past, every word I have said is twisted somehow, it is exasperating.If I wrote something, I would have to be very careful and selective. So, for now I will just wait it out for a bit. There is nothing more frustrating than to have your words and intentions turned around to bite you.....and hard. This is the situation that presents itself with an addicted loved one.

but you are also vulnerable in your profound grief. You don't need any more grief right now or pain or drama or bs.

This is why I am so hesitant and guarded. I do realize that I am very vulnerable. Drama is a huge part of dealing with my two. They seem to feed off of it. I just want peace. Peace, not to be torn into pieces.

We're here for you.

Thank you Com, that is a comfort beyond words.

The basket is an expression of kindness. We love our children but sometimes we don't like them. I also agree if you met her in person, avoid any suggestions of what she should do. It's her life, her choices.

Yes IB, her life, her choices. I have learned the hard way that these two do not want any suggestions or advice. Like a big neon sign, " Don't butt into my business". Off limit subject.

but I went slow and didn't let my heart open up too much.

I think I will take my time and guard my heart too. There is time to think things through.

you don't need to reopen yourself to Rain when she is not at the point in her life that she wants to change her life.

Yup, my feelings as well.

She can change but her walk back will take time, commitment and the willingness on her part to humble herself. Has she shown that?

Not in any way or form, no remorse or humility.

She must begin and then come some more before it is clear that she is committed to changing.

I do believe this to be so. I have felt this for some time now, and each contact has reaffirmed it.

I remember the one who was mad in the hospital. And I remember the daughter who kept showing up at the house and your land.

This is Rain. She accused me of giving up on her father. I know she was grieving and shocked as we all were. She wasn't there to witness everything as it painfully unfolded. Those of us who were there weren't prepared. I can't imagine what was going through her mind. Especially a mind mired in meth. There was no escaping the horror. Isn't that what drug use is about? Escaping reality. But this reality......there is no escaping from it. The finality of it.
I am hoping she will use it as a pivot point. Only time will tell. I will continue to guard myself as it has been a long hard journey and I am not equipped right now to risk my heart......again.

But New Leaf, you are newly widowed. How much can you take? How much can you ask of yourself, really? What do you really have to offer and to freely give, right now?

I can't take much more. Don't have much to offer, and what I do have really needs to be saved and focused on my young son. He deserves my full attention.

it gives her the responsibility to do more, especially at the beginning as she may be pivoting towards recovery and normalcy. She is the one who has chosen to separate herself from nearly everything that is normative and normal, everything that we consider to be sustaining and safe and secure and conventional. How is it your responsibility to walk that road back to her? When she has been the one who has walked away from everything that you and her father represent?

Copa, these words struck me. She has walked away and she also has the choice to turn her life around again. When she is ready. It has to come from her.

The first part was understanding that I was teaching my children to view themselves as beggars.

I see the reasoning in this. Love says no, enough, I will not put up with this. With hubs gone, it is a reminder that we all have limited time here. These two need to learn how to stand on their own feet. They need to know that our resources are limited. I don't have the means or desire to supplement and support their current way of life. They are capable of working and taking care of themselves.

How awful for all of us! When our children are in trouble ~ and they are, and it is bad trouble, when they are addicted and have nothing and live in dangerous places and we don't know whether..

It is awful. In the throes of addiction it does not seem to matter so much to them. That is what I am focusing on, that nothing I can say or do will make it matter to them to want differently. It has to come from them.

I found strength there to combat the love and the guilt and the love and that whole cognitive dissonance place Recovering named FOG. I would get destroyed in that FOG place.

It is a horrible place to be, between numb and hurt, mixed up in the cyclonic drama. Dazed and confused. That is why I am so resistant to Blossoms notion. I don't want to be wandering aimlessly in that FOG again, Cedar. It is hard enough drifting in and out of the reality of hubs passing.

The other piece was reviewing all I had done, and what the outcome had been.

This is what is helping me to stand firm. What more is there for me to do? How many times do I need to get burned to know to avoid the flame?

and I needed to change somehow, what was happening to all of us without destroying myself from the heart out.

From the heart out. It is true that this is a thing that happens to the entire family. There is no way not to be affected. Afflicted.

That gave me strength, because it gave me a place to stand that made sense to me.

Rain cannot help her addiction now, Leafy. It has her.

Invasion of the body snatcher. Kidnapped by addiction. I am reminded of Patty Hearst kidnapped for some strange reason. Drugs kidnapped my adult child and she has gone to the other side, despising everything she grew up with but ready to play a role if it serves her. There is a danger to it. It is because of my love for her that makes it so insidious. That love can be twisted and turned so. I am not up for that. I am going to keep my distance.

that once the adult child showed progress, then I could help wholeheartedly. That made it possible for me to sit with the feelings without losing myself in the feelings.

This is my decision as well for my two. I am looking for progress. A sign. I don't think it selfish, it is self preservation that drives my decision. I fear I shall go mad with anguish if I let my guard down.

The ten thousand mistakes I made, and the decision to forgive myself for them, lest they eat me alive, that was an important piece, too. Forgive yourself Leafy, that you cannot change this for Rain.

Thank you Cedar. Of course we made mistakes, who wouldn't under the extreme circumstances wrought by it? I do forgive myself. I am sorry for mistakes made, but I do not own the responsibility that my two would place on me.

As I write this, my children are making their ways back into creating the lives they want. But Leafy, if I had not been able to stop helping...I don't know. I don't know what might have happened. But I do know addiction is an awful thing.

Addiction is an awful thing. I am glad your children are making their way back. I will not give up hope, but I know that there is no help I could give that would make the difference that needs to happen. I do not want them to look outward to me, they need to look inward.

I will add my prayers for strength and clarity. My dear Leafy it is a heartbreaking situation. You have every right to do what you know is right. Blossom has found her place in Rains life. This is her blessing.

Thank you for your prayers and kindness Pasa. It is heart wrenching. There is only so much I can do. If Blossoms reaching out sparks a quest to return to living a better life, I am glad.

When Rain is clean and healed and ready for an honest relationship with you, she will come to you. She will come to you.

You didn't leave her and you have not stopped loving her. She will come to you. <3

Thank you Momto3, this is what I have been believing. I do not have a relationship with her using meth. I love her, but she has to take the steps to earn trust.

You just had a HUGE loss in your life and it has left a HUGE empty space. You may, subconsciously, attempt to fill that void with your lost child. It may end up creating an enabling situation for her and a hurtful situation for you, that you aren't ready to withstand.

It is an indescribable feeling. A huge part of the void is that our relationship was plagued with the devastation and constant onslaught of chaos of our twos choices. We did not have breathing room to live out our last days together. Hubs had retreated further into himself and his work. I was trying to come out of the FOG of drama and heartbreak, working, posting, trying to talk with him. He wanted no part of any discussion. We were drifting. He was angry that I had detached, as he was still clinging to the idea that we could intervene somehow. I was hard at work healing my broken heart and building strength to get my self back.
I can't help but feel robbed. Chunks of my relationship and my life stolen away by drugs and the insane selfishness of addiction.
Dealing with this and the ptsd of watching him slip away in extreme pain is too much. I refuse to jump into that ring. Part of me wants to scream it out on the rooftop.
"Do you two realize what you have done?"
Do they even realize? Do they even think of the pain of it? I don't think so. They are too caught up in themselves.
This is a huge, huge piece to work through. I am too angry right now to go to them. Nor do I feel that I should.

My prayers and good will goes out to you New Leaf. I have caught up with your story and my heart aches just thinking of what you have gone through. My condolences to you on the passing of your husband.

Thank you Havehadenough. I have had enough as well. I have been surrounded by this ugliness for too long. I am determined to get through this devastation, but do not want to waste anymore precious time talking to deaf ears, hardened hearts and setting myself up to be used. I have had enough. Action speaks louder than words. The action of these two is beyond words, it is despicable. Utterly disrespectful.
Thank you all for your support and thoughts. I have to push the what ifs away and focus on the what is. What is for Rain right now is meth and homelessness. What is for Tornado and my grands is living a life fraught with instability and drama.
What is for me is using every ounce of strength left to overcome this horrendous loss and carry on.
I do not have much left for anything else.
Least of all adult children determined to continue on with a lifestyle of drugs and feelings of entitlement. No remorse, no apologies, just the same ole, same ole.
Well, someone has to say enough.
That someone is me.
Leaf

 

[Sister's Keeper]

Leafy, no. They don't realize the pain the problems they have caused. One is in active addiction, and it's meth, so she may not even have a logical thought pattern, but I am sure that you probably didn't share these issues with them. ....and I am not saying you should have or should.

The other thing is that losing a father as an adult is far, far different than losing a husband. It's a different loss. Also remember that they have one another to lean on, for them, rekindling a relationship helps them get through a shared experience. They lost their father.

You do not share their experience. You lost a husband. It is different.

I still feel that it is not fair to take advantage of your vulnerability right now and try to guilt you into something that you aren't ready for.

Grief is complex, it is different for everyone. It takes time, it is a process. Please try not to live with regret. Take time, take care of yourself. Heal, get strong and make a decision when your feelings aren't so raw.

If it is something that you are comfortable with, maybe a grief support group would help?