Work and Germany Part II: Abandonment Recovery

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
trying to recast this loss into something else. Finding a generativity in ourselves, an understanding of life of humanity that is bigger than our own immediate experience.
Yes.
I don't know why our kids seem to have to do it this way, either. I actually think part of it is that they have never wanted for anything. They are not shamed by their poverty.
This is what M thinks. That my son never lacked for anything. He saw having as his natural right. Not by his own efforts. By mine. To create need, for my son, is just a signal for others, not himself, to provide. That is what M thinks.
Literally, it doesn't matter to them that they have no money.

Daughter is that way, too.
Except that no money is one thing. But what about the conditions that go with no money? Like no house. No food. No fun. No car. My son accepts these too. He could care less he has no drivers license. In fact, he says, he never again wants one. And never wants to drive. It is like he incorporates each loss and owns it instead of using it as a motivator to surmount and overcome. The exact opposite as was I.

Every single thing he loses, he acclimates himself to, and declares it the life he wants. Instead, of the reverse. Striving to replace it and get more, which is what I would do. I would have been desperate to get out of the hole so that I surpassed others.
Is this what our children are doing, too?

"...a cultural flowering and a great humanity and empathy."
Mine, no. I had a great humanity and empathy as a child. Now he is hard and mean. At least to me.

All I wanted was a doctor or writer and a freaking attorney. None of this flowering into empathy stuff.

That was a joke.
I am not laughing.
Going down, do we declare our own names, for the time of reclamation? Do we sell ourselves out too, before we learn who we are and choose again, our initial values?
I am not sure the context of this quote. I will guess.

I think for me, I chose empathy and sensitivity and kindness...because in the heart of me, I was none of these. It was what they call a reaction formation. One adopts the opposite of that in oneself one most fears. In my case: rage, entitlement, competition, attention...I wanted to win...but I held myself back...because the winner's circle was for my mother and my sister.

I became the opposite.
Isn't that ugly.

How is it we get to such ugly places.
Because we have killed off parts of ourselves..which we have never fully renounced. And the shame still makes it twist itself to be manifested. We need to identify it and to channel it cleanly and clearly and intentionally.
And sometimes, I am able to remember that these could be the trapped feelings fueling the others.
Yes.

Could this be going on with my son, who is a martyr? That attention, winning, producing got twisted and is only expressed through his defeat? How will he ever get over it?
("I know you ate food in there, Copa." Cedar hisses. "I just know it.")
I slurped it up, shamelessly.

M tried to help me out yesterday when the computer was broken. He said. My Goodness. The keyboard is full of food. I was only mildly ashamed. The rest of me was defiant. I love to defy him, in a childish and self-indulgent way. Just to be bad, bad, bad.
But we keep slipping into angry or entitled and wear fur and enjoy the sparkle of diamonds against our skins.
My entitlement is manifested by going to bed. Eating there. Triumphantly. Wrecking the computer. And mocking anybody who dares to question me.
Maybe your buying was to recreate yourself as someone else, Copa.
Yes.

I bought the equipment, the props for every single activity I could think of that had passed my mind to do. Photography. Painting. Drawing. Weaving. Spinning yarn. Crochet. Knitting. Embroidery. Needlepoint. Making socks. Fishing. Camping. Boating. Surfing. Open water swimming. Triathlon. Scuba. Kayaking. (Until I bought 2 Kayaks and I could not get in. I returned them.)

I had harbored the idea that I would sell a lot of it on Ebay. Until I found the never used wetsuits. They were covered in cat hair. I envisioned the Ebay listing: Wetsuits. Never used. Covered in fur. (Or washed only once, to remove cat fur. Never used.)

And then after I bought the props for the imaginary life, I started on my body. Shoes and boots and leggings and jeggings and sweaters etcetera.

And then I bought jewelry. (I had already many many scarves from the thrift store.)
When you became that other person, you would look and feel and speak in a way you judged as better than the current way.
Yes. That was the idea.
learning to incorporate everyone you might be, and become who you are.
And wanted to be, all those years past. That too.
It has something to do with incorporating past and present selves.
And future ones too.
With that dynamic we have of now being not enough, and incorporating our better, future, more perfect selves to soothe the broken self of the present.
Yes.

I keep trying to deal with the fact that here I am finally wanting to "be everything I can be...all that I can be (the join the Army slogan)...and I am this old thing. Gray. Wrinkled. Fat. Old. In paid. Lagging. Lacking.
I think that matters as a piece of what is happening to us now as we forego incorporating a perfect future self.
This I do not understand.
We are learning (defiantly) to be who we are without those perfect future selves we might become to help us sustain ourselves in the faces we see as ourselves, now.
Oh I get it. To accept ourselves as imperfect. As real. As not in role, but in real.

I did not get the memo. I still feel I need role to go out and meet the world. Real is in the house. In the bed. Remember every time I got dressed I wore the same cotton shirt and pants which I washed everyday. Winter or summer for 2 years I wore defiantly the same thing, while I bought all my props to create a life which I refused to live.

How pathetic am I.
I think where we are going as we change is not chosen so much as recovering our lands that were ours to begin with and finding them beautiful and creating, there, something that never was.
I hope so. I have the props. But the thing is, are they for a dream or a reality. How do I decide? What I want to be real? How do I know?

I am back to that horrible question:

What do I want? How do I know?
we were so busy being strong and kind and good and believing so hard we could all do this coming together as family that we never acknowledged or listened to or incorporated our own negatives.
Or we incorporated only our own negatives. I am not sure which it is for me.

COPA
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
"My heart whispered...Superstar!"

She is so funny, and so sincere. Her accent, the rhythm and syntax of her speech, sound so much like the Native speech rhythms in Minnesota.

"Every day, we have to visualize what we want."

Now, she is going to sing. I cannot wait.

"All I need is just a little faith to get by. Soon the Sun will rise."

:O)

The second song, the one about promising to keep memories. That one, I let her sing to me from my children.

I will believe it, then.

I loved the part about "Pick me up in Baggage Port D."

Thank you, Leafy.

This was beautiful.

Cedar
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Do you know of her Copa?
Her guitarist, is that your hair Copa?
How beautiful it is, as are you, my dear, dear sister.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Do you know of her Copa?
Her guitarist, is that your hair Copa?
How beautiful it is, as are you, my dear, dear sister.
No. Unfortunately my hair does not mat like that. It is in rats nest (speaking of that, there is a mouse in our garage. That is why Stella has fought me to get in there. She always knows). My hair is not in locks. I bought a horse hair detangler and every day I work on it a little bit.

No, I do not know her. Until now.

Thank you, New Leaf.

How is Hubs today? How are you?

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am happy for J's good height. There will be other good things too Copa, that you will learn about him now, I think.
I am having to come to grips with bad not good things, in my son.

Yesterday in the phone call I told him: I do not want to hear about your views about the Jews or Israel.

It hurts me when you talk to me about that. They are my people. I am them. My mother. My grandparents. Please do not anymore speak about the Jews to me. Think what you want. Do not speak of it to me. It hurts me.

I wanted to tell him that beliefs such as his, had justified and fueled destruction of Jews and their community for centuries, but he cut me off.

Angry. Aggressive. Let me say something, he demanded. Yelling it into the phone.

I said: I do not want to speak any longer. And I hung up. He called back. Again and again, a few times more. I did not answer nor did M.

Immediately, I got sick to my stomach. It continued through the day, the night and until now. I do not want a relationship with my son that makes me sick.

What if, instead of learning good things about our children, now that we are letting go of dreams, we are forced to see the reality of things? Meanness, disloyalty, betrayal, smallness, that we have warded off with our anger.

What if that is the reality of things, when anger, and faith are gone?

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Copa.

Yay, you got the de-tangler.

I am glad you like Paula, she is full of love and larger than life.
I have met her, Copa, she fills the room with her sunshine.


Thank you so much Copa, for holding my hand.

Hubs is okay, and so am I. Well, yes, I am, sort of, you know?

I am cleaning up a bit, writing and thinking, then will go to hospital.

I am in thought greatly about our future.

All hubs wants to do is work for 5 more years, to get the best retirement.
He is tired Copa, and he is ill.
I do not want him to spend the rest of his days working.
It is enough.
He has worked his whole life to care for his family. His children, their future.

I am quite certain Copa, that a lot of his ailments are a direct result of his broken heart.

Hawaiians have very tender, connected hearts.Connected to everything.

He is my grumpy, neanderthal, few worded,
strong,
sad man.

I am crying as I write this, because there is so much locked up inside of him.

All he ever wanted, was to see his children have a better life than he did.

He lived his whole adult life working very hard and dedicatedly towards this.
In this way, he gave up his own self,
even his relationship with his children,
so they could have a better life.

So, my thinking is thusly, this morning.

I am going to look into the possibility of early retirement for him.

I can live with less, if it means him having better days ahead of him,
before he is called home.

That call home, came to us first in 2005, open heart surgery.
He has other health afflictions.
Again, a near experience in 2013, another, 2014.

This man deserves to live out the rest of his days in better ways.

So, I have a mission Copa.
I will be looking into this,
and letting you know where these thoughts take me.

A higher purpose, I hope.

If the good Lord permits, and will allow.

It is really in His hands,
but also in ours.

True love is not all roses and pretty words and happiness.

It is in those few tender moments,
when life stands still.

Thank you so much Copa.
I am utterly speechless through your kindness and caring.

leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
New Leaf, before you make a move or say anything at all about the possibility of retirement for HUBS, you need to look into his benefits. For my main employer there was both the possibility of a work related industrial disability retirement (where the job duties themselves may have contributed to the malady or disability retirement, where because of health somebody can no longer do their job.In my employment both of these types were better than regular retirement.

Then there is a Disability Retirement through Social Security. Where your husband could qualify based on his years worked to get a monthly stipend. I think but do not know if this is diminished if their are other benefit sources.

Then there is Disability Insurance. If your husband cannot work because of illness, he should qualify for Disability Insurance through the State.

If it were me, I would file for that now. I would also file for a workers' compensation claim. I might also think about an attorney. If your husband belongs to a Union, there should be counsel available. The last people I would trust are the benefits coordinators on his job.
All hubs wants to do is work for 5 more years, to get the best retirement.
He is tired Copa, and he is ill.
I am completely in agreement with you. One hundred per cent. You need to take control. He will work himself to death if he is allowed to. That is what I think. He is looking for permission from you. I think he will go along. Tell him you love him and need him. It is a true thing.
I am quite certain Copa, that a lot of his ailments are a direct result of his broken heart.
Of course they are.
strong,
sad man
He can recover. I believe that. If the primary mission is that he recover. And grieve.
He lived his whole adult life working very hard and dedicatedly towards this.
In this way, he gave up his own self
Yes. I understand men and women like this. It is very loving that you know this and will help him fight for himself.
even his relationship with his children,
so they could have a better life
Yes. He sacrificed himself, even with them to protect them.

It is not too late, New Leaf.
I am going to look into the possibility of early retirement for him
Good. If you did not understand some part of what I wrote, ask me. There may be more money available than you think.

And Hubs once he is retired, can do many things still. But that will wait.


COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, New Leaf, he should not return to work. Perhaps this is the opening to a new way of life. For right now, he can be on sick leave. Then maybe he can apply for Workers Comp and Disability. Both of them. One or the other will pay. With my employer if the illness was considered to be even partially work related, the payments could go on at least a year. They were substantial. And retirement could accrue during that year, if you chose this. We cannot assume that HUBS will have the same benefits. I worked for prisons. But there will be options. It is a matter of learning what they are.

Do not assume that his health did not erode at least some by his work. That is where the most generous retirement might be available. If it is shown that even a portion of his health issues, were affected by his work.

COPA
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am filled with feeling for HUBS. Who has bottled up his grief and now he is being eaten up by it. I believe he can recover if this process of stuffing feelings, is stopped and a different way learned. Diet. Exercise. Music. Dance. Art. Craft. Socializing. Swimming. Love. Water.

We will all work on it.

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Immediately, I got sick to my stomach. It continued through the day, the night and until now. I do not want a relationship with my son that makes me sick.

What if, instead of learning good things about our children, now that we are letting go of dreams, we are forced to see the reality of things? Meanness, disloyalty, betrayal, smallness, that we have warded off with our anger.

What if that is the reality of things, when anger, and faith are gone?

He is so young Copa, and apparently,
not in his right mind,
when he speaks with you.
Maya, think of her.
NO,no, you will not go there with me.
I will not permit you to.

Good for you, Copa, you did that.

His reaction? A tantrum, an adult child tantrum.
Well, too, too bad for him.
You do not have to listen to this.
He shall have to learn.
Have faith in that Copa, that he will learn.

This is a temporary thing my sister.

Life is change, all the time.

Kapu aloha, is just as much about holding yourself sacred, as others.

Here is where the modern kapu aloha movement started.


Be the mountain Copa, say NO.

Much like you face your son in this issue, such is the case for Hawaiians.

The Hawaiians have to face their own people, in their stance for righteousness and land issues. Their own people are the very one the State agencies send to thwart peaceful protests in kapu aloha.

There is design in this, I am sure of it.

These Hawaiians holding themselves in kapu aloha, are faced with their own people in uniform, sheriffs, policemen. It is as if they are looking into mirrors, Copa, and they are being held captive, shackled, handcuffed, arrested by their own people.

There is chanting, and crying and wailing, like no other sound in the universe.

There are pictures and videos, of the Hawaiian officers standing in defiance, taking a stance against their own culture, because it is their job, their livelihood, their retirement. It goes against their very nature.

Some are stoic, and proud.

Others, you can see the wrestling going on inside of themselves, in their eyes.
Their faces betray the horrific emotions and thoughts running through their beings.
A people, set against their own people.



Your son,
for whatever reason,
has taken this twisted idea, and dares,
no demands to present it to you.

he is your perSon, your people against your people.

Kapu aloha.

No, you, said, I will not allow you to talk to me about these things,
I will not allow you to take my sacred place
and muddy it with your thinking.
I will not allow this to divide us.
I will not be wrathful.
I love you,
but I will not discuss this with you.

Kapu Aloha.

He must know this. And he will.

As you take your stance in kapu aloha

he will learn
and he will know
that he cannot go to this place.
Ever.

Do not lose faith Copa
life is forever changing,
that is the only constant thing of life
Change.

People change
hearts and minds change.

This thing with your son is temporary.

The Hawaiians are taking a stance to protect their sacred place, Mauna Kea.
The tallest mountain in the world, taller than Mt. Everest.

It is this place, where their Gods reside.

For now, the Supreme Court has stopped the desecration, and upheld the contention that the permits to construct this monstrosity on conservation land, sacred land, were illegally given.

The construction is halted, it is not permitted.

Take your stance with your son, Copa,
do not permit him to divide
your relationship with his words,
and also, do not allow this to burden your heart.

There is always hope.
Things change.

leafy
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
ry single thing he loses, he acclimates himself to, and declares it the life he wants. Instead, of the reverse. Striving to replace it and get more, which is what I would do. I would have been desperate to get out of the hole so that I surpassed others.

You know what I think it is Copa? We were raised in cultures of scarcity. Our children were raised so differently than we were that we cannot understand, cannot find common ground from which to teach either them or ourselves how to help them or ourselves, now.

We did not fail, Copa.

We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. We loved them so well that they go into the world, still, like innocent children.

We did not know, until we were healing ourselves, how to parent children loved too well. This could be true, Copa. Our children have grown up believing they were wonderfully well-made creatures whose futures would fall glowingly into place.

And this may have happened, but not in the drug culture our kids grew up into. That culture plays its part here, too. Everything about it, and the hatred and devaluing in it.

That my son never lacked for anything. He saw having as his natural right. Not by his own efforts. By mine. To create need, for his, is just a signal for others, not himself, to provide. That is what M thinks.

But our children were not raised as we were, Copa, in a culture of scarcity. They had enough and more, and maybe, because they were so well-mothered in those ways, are generous and loving and kind as their go to positions, today.

They are more important than stuff. It isn't even a question for them.

We succeeded.

It must be very awful for them now, to find that we are telling them this has changed. We may be able to see this differently, now. We believed ourselves to have done something terribly wrong. What if the truth is that our children were so certain they were loved, and are so certain still that their worlds are safe places, that they risk in ways we find reprehensible.

I don't know what I am talking about again. I know this is an important piece. I am thinking about that mom whose son took his bike to California. He learned many things ~ it was Albatross. Remember Albatross? And her son was the same way our kids were and none of us could understand it or where we had gone wrong.

That fits here.

Could the answer be explaining this method of parenting to the kids once we get it fully ourselves? Could that be the answer to the abandonment they feel, and the guilt we feel.

We were right in believing in them, in requiring that they take charge of themselves and their lives. We were wrong in doing that in anger or frustration or fear. We were wrong in harboring guilt or anger that we project onto them or transference onto them. (I don't know my psychiatric terms well enough here, Copa. You will know.) Transference. That is the term I mean, but I am uncertain of the meaning.

I wish we'd been thinking this way sooner.

Transference.

Why we feel as we do.

The Sleeping Beauty kiss. The wonder of loving someone that much and coming alive through loving them ourselves. The rejection of losing them.

So the question we would be correct in asking them then would be: "What have you learned?"

"What have you learned about what matters, since we talked last?"

I wonder what it would sound like, if they were to tell us the stories of their lives.

Okay. So, I am fishing around in here. But I think there is something here for us that is an important piece of how to do this.

Of how to be wise.

I had a great humanity and empathy as a child. Now he is hard and mean. At least to me.

So is my son, Copa. What have we taught them, that this is their response. Where is that meanness coming from. I always attributed it to drug use. (Once I stopped believing that the relevant fact about his addiction was how it affected me. Oh, roar I wish I'd known how to think about these things then.)

We are better, now.

Whew I am glad we decided to do this.

One adopts the opposite of that in oneself one most fears.

I did not want to be my mother.

Cold sweat: I do not want to be that person with the blank eyes.

We need to identify it and to channel it cleanly and clearly and intentionally.

That is going to be harder than what we have done, already.

I like the strength in this way of seeing, Copa. I will stop feeling bad about looking ugly and begin honoring my strength.

Could this be going on with my son, who is a martyr? That attention, winning, producing got twisted and is only expressed through his defeat? How will he ever get over it?

No I don't think so, Copa. I think we have no frame of reference to understand our kids. We will heal ourselves more and then, we will see differently. They were not raised like we were, Copa. They were well-loved, well-provided for. Where we would feel intense shame, they get mad at the other guy.

We are seeing our children and ourselves so differently already, Copa. We will continue to heal.

Then we will know more.

Maybe it can be enough for now to know that we don't know.

Yet.

M tried to help me out yesterday when the computer was broken. He said. My Goodness. The keyboard is full of food. I was only mildly ashamed. The rest of me was defiant. I love to defy him, in a childish and self-indulgent way. Just to be bad, bad, bad


:hugs:

My entitlement is manifested by going to bed. Eating there. Triumphantly. Wrecking the computer. And mocking anybody who dares to question me.

:starplucker:


(Until I bought 2 Kayaks and I could not get in. I returned them.)

This is so funny, Copa. I would never have thought about how big the kayak opening would have to be either.

Copa, you could write such a funny book about this buying.

You are not the only one who does this. There is a lady in my Book Club who buys things on E Bay to the extent that at one meeting? Her teenage son said, right in front of everyone, that she was "Making the family broke buying dishes on E Bay.")

We all pretended we never heard that.

That was the same teenager who told his mother what Tea Bag meant.

So we liked him twice, though one time was in secret. We are Book Club ladies, not super-evolved, kindly ladies.

And though we never once discussed that occurrence among ourselves? Her home is very beautiful.

And so, we liked him twice.

:starplucker:

I keep trying to deal with the fact that here I am finally wanting to "be everything I can be...all that I can be (the join the Army slogan)...and I am this old thing. Gray. Wrinkled. Fat. Old. In paid. Lagging. Lacking.

I cannot help Copa because I am feeling very awful about myself too, lately. Part of it is real. We are not beautiful in the way we were when we were young. But Copa we did not think we were beautiful, in the sense of owning our beauty or sensuality when we were young, either.

So, there's that.

Here is what happened to me the other day. I went to the dermatologist because I have a history of skin cancer. A new one (dermatologist). And he said: "Blah, blah, blah After the lift, then blah, blah, blah."

He meant face lift before I had anything else done for improving the skin to be healthy, like skin peels or scar revisions and etc.

How old must I look.

So he referred me to a plastic surgeon because he can do everything I need done. And then, we could do the rest of it.

Huh.

I must not be aging as gracefully as I thought. But I think I do not want a facelift.

I am going back to my old dermatologist. I am going to sneak back there and have a skin peel without a face lift. Though I am sure that dermatologist was probably recommending things in the most efficient way.

But still.

Plus I am sure face lifts are very expensive.

Whatever.

Anyway, that is what happened to me a little while ago.

How pathetic am I.

Or...how fortunate.

What do I want? How do I know?

This is the most important question. The answer has to do with perfection, and with letting go of that because making ourselves into someone presentable to ourselves will never happen until we are happily who we are, already. That is the difference I see in those who are centered. They do not have a core of self-hatred driving them. Where we have that Copa, they have a sense of wondering curiosity. Like, a gentle probing feel to them, but without judgment or self protection or something. In that they are like children, open to their emotions ~ even sadness ~ and very much in the moment they are in.

I have actually seen people like that with my own eyes.

That is how we will feel, once we are done, maybe.

Once we are done cooking.

Or we incorporated only our own negatives. I am not sure which it is for me.

I think I could not have incorporated mine. They are making me very sick of myself these days. Well, that is not altogether true. At the same time, I am coming more real and permissive with myself, and happy at times with me.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Well, I had to first look to see what Tea Bagging is.
Our children have grown up believing they were wonderfully well-made creatures whose futures would fall glowingly into place.
Well, this is an optimistic view. Since it is free, I might think about adopting it. Except I need to at least a little bit believe it, first.
are generous and loving and kind as their go to positions, today.
My son sure is not. He is generous. That is true. Underneath everything he is loving and kind. That is true.
What if the truth is that our children were so certain they were loved, and are so certain still that their worlds are safe places, that they risk in ways we find reprehensible.
Could be, Cedar.
We were wrong in doing that in anger or frustration or fear. We were wrong in harboring guilt or anger that we project onto them or transference onto them.
Yes. The words are externalizing and projection onto.
"What have you learned about what matters, since we talked last?"
My son would hoot in disgust. Just hoot. Why don't you ask him, Cedar?
They were well-loved, well-provided for. Where we would feel intense shame, they get mad at the other guy
Possibly.
Her teenage son said, right in front of everyone, that she was "Making the family broke buying dishes on E Bay."
I laughed out loud at this. I love him too. I wonder what kind of dishes she is buying. I want some too. Why don't you ask her? I think I need these dishes.
We all pretended we never heard that.
So funny. I am laughing again. Smiling. (I would have asked to see the dishes, and started buying them too.)
That was the same teenager who told his mother what Tea Bag meant.
Now that I know what it is I am blushing here.
Copa we did not think we were beautiful, in the sense of owning our beauty or sensuality when we were young, either.
Yes. That is a good point. I was looking at my prison ID from 8 years ago. I was looking good. Still. From this vantage point, at least, which is both older and 45 pounds heavier.
But I think I do not want a facelift.
NOOOOO. Do not consider a face lift Cedar. Please.

You do not need a face lift. My cousin got her eyes done. That looks good and her insurance paid for one eye. So it was half price. That I would consider. But face lifts destroy the face. Look at Carly Fiorina. Trump was right. Only about that.

They want money. Even the Hollywood ladies do not do it anymore. A facial peel is enough. I did it several times about 10 years ago. It stimulates the growth of new skin. Also there are serums that help. My mother used them. Her skin was phenomenal. I will look for the bottles and write the names. I want to get it too.
I am going to sneak back there and have a skin peel without a face lift.
Yes. That cannot hurt you. And facial massages.

You do not need anything. I know.

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Three quick things. *I cut my finger bad. I thought it was a carrot.

M just put onion skin on my finger covered with tape. He is full of remedies. So I am a bit restricted in my typing.

First, New Leaf: What you wrote was so touching about the mountain and the people and how people turn against their own. And we need to have patience, love and hope. But also strength to hold the mountain safe.

Second, Cedar. Look at Miuccia Prada and Meryl Streep. Look at how good they look. Prada said beauty is boooorrrring. And ugly is interesting. That has to be so. Because she is getting a little bit ugly as she ages and I cannot take my eyes off her.

You are beautiful. If you are aging it will only make you more interesting. Every single aspect of your face is YOU. Why in the world would you want to give up any of it? I am panicked that you would tamper with your beautiful face before I have a chance to meet you which might be never. I at least want the possibility.

Finally, I am still laughing out loud about the young man whose out of control mother is spending all the family money on dishes. I cannot stop. M and I went to the other house to rout homeless people and I laughed the whole way in the car.

COPA
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Every single thing he loses, he acclimates himself to, and declares it the life he wants. Instead, of the reverse. Striving to replace it and get more, which is what I would do. I would have been desperate to get out of the hole so that I surpassed others.
Why is it important to be upwardly mobile? Just asking...
Because I believe, to some extent, some of our kids have looked at the whole "game" of getting ahead and decided it isn't worth it. So many people try to play it right... and end up exactly where your son is. So, why bother trying to get ahead. It fails so often, lets people down, leaves them worse off than they were before. And they are not wrong. That is the reality of life. Those who successfully play the game and do get ahead, try to make it look like it can be the same for everybody if they just try. The reality is... only a very VERY small percentage will ever actually get ahead.

In some ways, I regret ever trying so hard. Wasted so much time and effort and gave up so many opportunities to slow down and have a better life - not more stuff, but more balance, more time to smell the roses, more relationships, less pressure...

What if they are right and most of us are wrong?

Just asking. Just wondering.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Insane, I agree with you. Except my son was homeless. He is still borderline homeless. He is dependent on others to survive. If he is thrown out where he is he has nowhere to go. There is no safe place for him. You could say he is OK in himself. But he is not. When he is homeless and marginal he gets desperate and paranoid.

What I am talking about is not upwardly mobile, as I was but a bit of security. Not so vulnerable.

COPA
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
What provides security? What takes away vulnerability?
If you think to much about those questions, it isn't so hard to see the other side of the argument... that really, there isn't much security in anything, no matter what you do.

Get an education, get a good job and... the company goes under, or you get laid off.
Get a house, and... you lose your job and lose the house anyway, or you get flooded out, or an earthquake hits, or...

Some of us survive with more stuff around us, and some of us survive with less stuff. But most of us are just inches away from disaster, every single day.

(playing devil's advocate here)
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I agree in this: what brings true security is in us.

I do not agree that because we can lose it, we should not strive. Not for things. But for education. For purpose. For meaning. For self-understanding and contentment.

I believe that these things come as a consequence of seeking. Not from stasis.

Insane, do you want your children to vegetate? To smoke marijuana and do not anything else? To not work? To feel left behind? To feel others they know have married, or had children, are educated and reaching goals, and that they are not?

COPA
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi sister Copa thank you, he is much better, the blood counts are coming down. They have him on a full liquid diet, so we will see how he digests that. He will be a hungry papa bear tomorrow. I am praying that he will be fine.
How is your carrot/finger? Oh ouch Copa!
I agree with you, no facelift Cedar. Look at Michael Jackson, he had all the money in the world and was not ever satisfied with the plastic surgery he supposedly never had.
:smartass:
Got to go pick up Boy. I will write later. I do not like typing on my phone too limited.

leafy
 
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