2 questions

[eekysign]

Meh, my family is OK with the quick-peck-on-the-lips. Usually just cheek, but it's not unusual around here. Culturally, we're normal American mutts, too. I would NEVER think anything wrong of that, in my family. Surprised to see so many people find it distasteful! Go figure, to each his/her own.

klmno, I'm so confused, hon. How on earth are they considering giving your difficult child to your brother if they know he's molested someone? Is this something the courts are fully aware of, or allegations that were never proved? I just can't understand how this is happening?

 

[klmno]

Are you worried that someone is going to say that difficult child's problems are due to you kissing him on the lips? Oh please...that is really reaching

LOL!! No- the kissing question had nothing to do with the psychiatric test.

 

[klmno]

Is this something the courts are fully aware of, or allegations that were never proved?

Yes to both of these. There is no way for me to prove them so I understand that some people don't believe them. That only worsens my anxiety about it though because I know it is true and I fear that those who just don't want to believe me will win in court. These are not recent events, though. Still, there is enough reason for me to still be concerned, I think, because I see unchanged attitudes, efforts to manipulate my son, etc.

I wish they would look more at giving me and my bro lie detector tests. That should answer the majority of everyone's questions.

 

[klmno]

Look at this- would you want to end up with a court ordered treatment plan based solely on this? And this is supposed to be driven by how I am contributing to difficult child's problems- not that I'm a criminal.

Some examples of items on the MMPI are ``It is safer to trust nobody"; "I wish I were not bothered by thoughts about sex"; "I do not always tell the truth"; and "I am not afraid of mice." Figure 1 shows additional typical items from this test. The answer in parentheses would support the diagnosis given above each item.

Figure 1. Typical items from the MMPI with scales indicated
Hypochondriasis Hs
I am bothered by acid stomach several times a week. (True)
Depression (D) scale
I am easily awakened by noise. true)
Hysteria (Hy) scale
I like to read newspaper articles on crime. (False)
Psychopathic deviate (Pd) scale
I am neither gaining nor losing weight. (False)
Masculinity-feminity (Mfl scale
When I take a new job, I like to be tipped off on who should be gotten next to. (False)
Paranoia (Pa) scale
I have never been in trouble with the law. (False)
Psychasthenia (Pt) scale
I am inclined to take things hard. (True)
Schizophrenia (Sc) scale
I get all the sympathy I should. (False)
Hypomania (Ma) scale
I never worry about my looks. (True)
Social introversion (Si) scale
People generally demand more respect for their own rights than they are willing to allow for others. (True)

(From Dahlstrom and Welsh, 1960)

Seriously, how would they know if you had ulcers or learned to sleep light due to having a difficult child or are maintaining a diet?

 

[CrazyinVA]

I really think you are overthinking this as well. I think the possibility of them ordering you into treatment as a result of a test, when you are already IN treatment, is next to nil.

My mother used to say, "do what's in front of you." When we start projecting too far into the future and worry about what might happen, it makes us crazy. We've all done that as parents of difficult children, I know. But it's never accomplished anything for me but to make me feel worse. 9 times out of 10, the outcome is something I never even considered. The more "down" time I have, the more prone I am to this kind of thinking. I think, with difficult child out of the home, you have nothing but time on your hands, and the worry is consuming you! Justified or not, it is not good for you, k.

I really hope you take some steps back from this and give yourself from breathing room. You deserve that.

 

[klmno]

The mst guy, who apparently is the go-between, told me that was why they were doing this.

I've created an online resume today and sent out online applications to look for a job this afternoon. I think it's what I need to do because my current employer can't bring me back full time right now, even if I wasn't caught up with this other stuff and there's no other work in my field available right now. I can't make it financially without doing something drastic and I can't sell the house for a profit right now either. So, I just have to pursue survival.

I have no idea how that works with difficult child's involvement with county Department of Juvenile Justice.

 

[robinm1922]

I hope you know and believe in your heart that you did nothing other that create (give birth) your difficult child! You didn't cause his problems at least not directly maybe through heredity but not directly. If that were the case then all of us here would be in the same boat, I won't believe for a minute I did anything to my difficult child that has caused her to be where she is right now. She may have gotten bad genes from her dad and my family but my direct actions have not caused her problems. If anything I am her biggest support right now since her dad (use the terms loosely) has turned his back on her. You keep your head held high and do what they ask, what ever you do don't let them beat you down! You are a strong and capable woman, I believe we are only given as much as we can handle and these things make us stronger.

As far as the kissing, I work with someone who kisses his kids on the lips but it is more a middle east custom thing than anything else. I aim for the cheek but usually get a forehead! My difficult child isn't very affectionate, or at least only when she feels like it.

Being a child who was molested I don't know what to say about your difficult child going with your brother. I was very young when it started happening to me and never told anyone because it was my father (if you can call him that!) and I was suppose to trust him.
I would do what ever I had to do to keep my difficult child from someone that was abusive, I don't know what that is but I would find it.
I am certain if push comes to shove your mama bear instincts will come into play, I pray it is enough to keep your difficult child out of harms way.
If they are "forcing" you to do testing then it only seems right that whoever your difficult child is placed with should be made to do the same testing.
Can you insist on that? He is still your difficult child or did the courts change that?

I will keep you and your difficult child in my prayers, I hope for every one's sake your difficult child is placed (if not with you) in a home where he will thrive and turn out to be a successful member of society!
Best of luck,
Robin

 

[klmno]

Thanks so much for your support. I'm going to ask the court for something along those lines- I don't know that it will be as much of a request as a plea. LOL! But, really, if their goal is to keep difficult child with me then I hope they would allow an assessment by the same people assessing him. And make it a real assessment- not one personality test and nothing else. If the goal is to find out if I'm a fit parent, I am going to bring up the fact that then whoever they are considering sending difficult child to should also get the test.

But given where difficult child is now and his psychiatrist's report, it seems absurd to me that they would be considering that route. But, maybe they are just looking for a quick, less-expensive answer that stems from some of their own stereotypes and assumptions.

More and more, I view it like the sd. Yes, they are supposed to be looking out for difficult child's educational needs. But many of us here have learned that if we turn our heads and leave it up to the sd and assume all will be dealt with appropriately, the kid will get the minimum, if anything, and sometimes what they do will make things worse.

Example: Even now sd says they won't recommend difficult child for Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Never mind that the place he is now does and there's every indication he needs it. The reason sd won't recommend it is because they would have to pay more toward the cost of it. But do you really think the sd wants a difficult child who recently pulled a knife on his mom back in their school right now?

And, we all know how sd's will say "well, we don't have that available" when we are in an iep meeting and tell them what we think difficult child needs for extra support. So, they want to push what they do have easily available and convince the parent that this is all difficult child needs. When that accommodation doesn't work, it will inevitably be the kid's fault or the parent's fault but not that it was the inappropriate accommodation. The courts do the same thing. It is clearly written by a psychiatrist that difficult child needs a higher level of psychiatric care. Department of Juvenile Justice wants to send difficult child home with therapist for us. That's because Department of Juvenile Justice funding covers a certain type of therapist care for at-risk youth. So they are trying to change the problem/needs to fit what they have readily available. Doe anyone know of a therapist who does nothing but behavior management that can also deliver "a higher level of psychiatric care"? I'll guarantee you that if I kept my mouth shut and just went along with everything they said, this is what we would be getting because I've been so much as told that already. There have been people already openly pushing for it.

 

[TerryJ2]

I'm coming in late to this, but I would be concerned about the kissing, especially because of difficult child's age. Babies and toddlers get the "Mwah!" fun, funny kisses on the lips, sure. But a 14-yr-old? Not in American culture. Amazing that difficult child didn't haul off and sock the person.

You've gotten so much good info on the psychiatric evaluation and reporting I don't have anything to add to that except support.

 

[Star*]

I rethought the kiss thing last night and discovered -

That I usually aimed for kissing Dude on his cheeks - and whatta ya know - most of his life that's exactly where he told me to kiss him.

 

[DammitJanet]

Is it that odd that my grandkids got pictures taken kissing? They were 2 and 1. I thought it was the cutest picture around. They both "give sugar".

 

[Nancy]

I'm a little surprised about the reaction to kissing myself. Who knows maybe I'm dysfunctional.

In my family it was quite normal to kiss immediate family members on the lips. I'm not talking about some perverted prolonged kiss, a quick peck on the lips. To this day when I leave my dad, he is 89 years young, I give him a quick kiss on the lips. He has never abused me, nor have I ever felt there was anything wrong with this. I remember kissing my mother and my grandmother on the lips. I never thought anything about it.

I kissed my girls on the lips until they reached a certain age, not sure I remember now, probably adolesence. Maybe it's cultural or what you were brought up with.

I may think differently if I had boys. I suppose some therapist could accuse me of during irrepairable harm to my daughters.

Nancy

 

[DammitJanet]

I paid close attention yesterday when Cory leaned in the car to kiss me goodbye...this is how much I have been thinking about this kissing question...lol.

He leaned across my passenger seat, I turned my head, he gave me a quick peck on the side of my lips - so it was half on the lips and half on the cheek. Then said "bye momma, I love ya. See ya later." Kiss couldnt have lasted more than half a second and there was nothing sexual about it.

Why do we always have to make an innocent show of affection all about sex anyway?

 

[BestICan]

Just wanted to chime in about the kissing question: I have no issues with kissing family members on the lips. We're very cuddly and affectionate in my family and I guarantee I've kissed both my boys (ages 5 & 9) on the lips within the past month. It's not an everyday thing but it's not terribly uncommon.

I remember being kissed on the lips as a kid. I did not find it terribly pleasant to be pecked on the lips by "old ladies" and "old men" (probably my age now, sheesh) but I never believed and still don't believe that there's anything wrong with it.

As for the other issues, I am sorry to say I have no insight but I am watching with interest and compassion. I hope you can de-tangle yourself and your difficult child from the snarl of bureaucracy that you're in and still get the services you need.

 

[klmno]

FWIW, I don't think there is anything wrong with the different habits of kissing that anyone has listed here- that's why I tried to point out that different families have different customs and that doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong, where no sexual thoughts are there.

It's when it isn't customary in your immediate or extended family, and the "suspicious" person was raised in the same ffamily and they take a kid by the face- with hands on each side of the kid's face, smack one on the lips, dead-on, then turn and look at the mother with a smirk and glare that seemes to say "I will do what I want to", then turns around and walks away and this adult tried to force that mother to do something sexual as an adolescent that I think I have reason to be very concerned. Plus, there were other things going on as well- like that adult spending months trying to get the kid to call him when the mother was not at home.

Still, it seems that when I get so much scrutiny and doubt and accusation from people around me (ITRW), I start doubting myself and getting concerned that maybe other's wouldn't be concerned about things- that maybe it's just me over-reacting. But, in all sincerity, I think this particular situation was wrong.

 

[DammitJanet]

Well...if I extrapolated this out to something in my real life...

If my rapist happened to find me again, find my kids, kiss them in any way....well, there would be major quantities of blood shed and it wouldnt be mine! I would probably be in jail if I couldnt get an insanity plea.

 

[susiestar]

We kiss on the lips. Or on the cheek. Mostly the kids kiss us on the lips. Wiz had a few years with no kisses allowed at all, and now even he will give me a quick kiss on the lips.

I have to say it bugs me when the family members who hurt me kiss me anywhere, and I am hypervigilant as to how they behave around my kids and when they are around my kids.

Sadly for me, the rest of the family can't handle what went on so I keep most of my discomfort to myself and husband. I just maneuver situations to not be near them and not ahve my kids near them. From one family member I would tear him apart if he EVER kissed my daughter on the lips. PERIOD - this is NOT gfgbro. It is another family member.

k - I am just praying for the best outcome possible. If the courts send him to your bro you might want to find one of the underground groups of women out there to help protect him. I would move heaven and Earth to keep my kids away from living with my abusers. Or ANY abusers.