...and it all falls apart

[BusynMember]

Had your son ever been evaluated by a high level professional as a child? His obsessions with trains is common in Aspergers Syndrom. Some kids memorize entire schedules and can parrot them back perfectly. That could be his core problem, which is why he has trouble making friends, getting work, and fitting in. Did anyone ever mention it to you? My son, who is on the spectrum, was tested by neuropsychs when he was quite young.

I don't know if finding out will help him now, but it could if he gets the right services f or autistic spectrum disorder and regular psychiatrists don't really get it. Sometimes Aspies do get into drugs because they are tired of not fitting in and they'd rather fit in with losers than nobody. Did he ever repat verbatim the television shows he watched? Does he have an eerily great rote memory but is clueless about life in the abstract? I am going to show you a link about adults with Aspergers. Maybe he has it and maybe it could help him to know it and to get a different type of help, on top of the drug abuse: (Your ex could have had it too, if, indeed, either has it. I'm just making an out-there guess).

http://psychcentral.com/lib/adult-aspergers-the-relief-of-a-diagnosis/0006706

 

[dstc_99]

Some days I wish I could get husband to read these threads. He doesn't understand why I have set guidelines for difficult child and feel she should have rules.

I hope he makes the changes he needs to.

 

[Lil]

Thank you MWM. I will read your link.


He has never been diagnosed with anything. When he was very young - like 3 - his daycare insisted I take him to a psychologist because he was very disuptive. The quack sat in a room with him, alone, for 20 minutes and then insisted he had ADHD and needed Ritalin. Why? Because every time he heard a noise he looked at the door. Gee...a 3 year old is taken into a room by a stranger and his mom is left outside and he keeps looking at the door. How remarkable.

So I took him to my GP who had an absolute fit when I told him. I asked for a referral to a reputable physician for a 2nd opinion. He sent me to a child psychiatrist. We sat and chatted for 1/2 and hour while my son quietly put together jigsaw puzzles. The Dr. said then, "Give this child Ritalin and you'll be peeling him off the ceiling; he isn't hyperactive at all." He told me, after a few sessions with my son that he was never going to be an "easy" child, and he could give him medication to help him focus better, but that as a father himself, he wouldn't recommend it. He suggested I keep him in a group settting, like preschool, instead of the private sitter I had moved him too.

So son got an IEP and was placed in a pre-school program thru Special Education. I had to have quack sign off on it. He told me, "Do what you want, but sooner or later you're going to have to put him on Ritalin so you may as well do it now!" The nerve of that putz.

Anyway, he did the preschool and then I put him in a regular pre-kindergarten summer school, for the socialization. I was asked by the kindergarten teacher then why he was in the program and that he could skip kindergarten entirely. He was not quite 5. While most moms I know keep their kids out of kindergarten until they are 6 now, I started him at 5.

Not sure why I bothered with all that background...but I had done a lot of research myself with aspergers back then. I raised it with the physchiatrist, but he didn't think there was enough to go on to give that diagnosis. I have always wondered myself and still do. It's minor, I believe, but the social awkwardness, obsessiveness, etc., they do fit.

Sometimes Aspies do get into drugs because they are tired of not fitting in and they'd rather fit in with losers than nobody.

He's actually said this very thing to us. Our school is very cliquey. He didn't fit in with the jocks, or the nerds, or the goth kids or whatever...he said once the stoners were the only people who were nice to him.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, they didn't know much about Aspergers back then. It was ADHD and only ADHD. They diagnosed my son with ADHD too and as soon as I left the office I told my husband, "No, it's not. It's a form of autism." I had just happened to read a book on autistic kids right before we adopted Sonic and I could tell. He was text book, but because he was active they said it was ADHD. Sonic had other delays so he also had an IEP and early education and he is actually a very happy young man and was a happy boy and found misfits to fit in with and he was ok with that. He was diagnosed with high functioning autism, more accurately Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. He doesn't seem to care about fitting into "normal."

But Aspies often do care. And that can lead to things like drug use. I have no idea how that can help you now, but you may be able to talk him into seeing a neuropsychologist for diagnostic reasons. If he has it, you can at least understand him better and maybe even explain him to your husband. Then maybe he will be more willing to stop using pot if he knows there is help and hope for Aspergers, assuming he has it. I wouldn't trust a regular doctor to diagnose it. It is very complex to diagnose.

Now if he has it, that is still no reason to take drugs, but it would explain why life is confusing to him and why his temper is short (they tend to all be a part of it). He can also learn to do better, but, as with everything, he has to be willing to try hard with somebody who understands him.

But let's not jump the gun. He may not have it. However, if he does, it is tragic that nobody said anything in the medical profession to get him services. I think if he has it, and is willing to accept the label, there is more hope for him than if he just thinks he's a loser. Can't hurt to try.

Hugs again. We are pulling for both you and your son.

 

[Lil]

It never occurred to me that the psychiatrist would not see it, even after I mentioned it. I mean, I researched it myself years ago. But it has been so long now that perhaps I researched it later? I was sure I mentioned it because I was concerned of a lack of eye contact and that sort of thing.

I wonder if it would hurt more than help? Knowing my kid...he may just say, "Well, see? Not my fault. Don't blame me. I can't help it."

Hard to know with him.

 

[BusynMember]

It would give him an option of getting help. If he doesn't get help and he has it, he WON'T be taking care of himself anytime soon. He is more than his disorders. He can make decisions that help him, he can make decisions that hurt him, or he can decide to do nothing which will hurt him. You still need to let him go. My autistic son is out on his own, has a part-time job and social security and takes care of most of his needs on his own. But he was always an extremely hard worker. On top of having Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), he was born to a birthmother who was high when she had him and he had cocaine in his system and he needed open heart surgery right after birth. He had wonderful foster parents for two years than we got him and he was a real handful, but he always, always tried very hard, even young. It is really up to the person. If your son has Asperger's he may qualify for job assistance, help with his resume, social skills services, etc, but he would again have to accept the help and work hard and you would have to step back and allow others to help him...and not give in when he feels sorry for himself.

I understand your point of view too though. This is a decision you have to make yourself. If my kid had ever said to me, "It's not my fault I can't do (fill in the blank) I would have told him he can do anything he most certainly can do it, but he has to listen to what his helpers tell him to do and he has to try harder than other people and it will be worth it." We started very early giving Sonic normal childhood responsibilities. Even when he raged, he was not let off the hook. It has paid off big time with him. I'm not bragging, believe me. I have my difficult child and he's a whole total ballgame, so I get it.

 

[Lil]

Well, color me surprised. He apparently did his resume. Has called Kmart and verified they got his app. He's received a return email asking for him to take another assessment, which will improve his chances of getting hired. He checked the career center site and found a listing for the same company that had the job fair...which says they are hiring 400 seasonal part-time and full-time employees. He's going to call his friend's mom tomorrow, since she's worked there for years, and ask her opinion as to whether he should put in on-line or go back to try again in person. He's still nervous about the drug test, but still says he should be able to pass, as it's been more than a month since he smoked any actual marijuana. We'll see. He's emailed a company with an ad on craigslist. And all this while feeling really bad. He has a terrible cough and sore throat today and has spent a lot of time sleeping today apparently. But even though he feels bad, he's done some stuff. Hmmm.

 

[Albatross]

Well - last night was one long smootch. At one point (he was telling us what cool parents we'd been) I told him to remove his lips from my buttocks because I wanted to sit down.

BWAHAHA! I love this! Lil, you sound like you are in a really good and strong position on everything right now. I love the way you have gotten to the point of had enough and are calling him on every little drop of BS. I hope this is enough and he is young enough to steer him back onto a better path.

 

[Lil]

Oh My God! The ups and the downs of this kid!

Two days - TWO - he'd been looking for work. I get a call at noon yesterday - and he is in a STATE. He can't get the Kmart website to work. His friend I thought was no longer his friend has been blowing up his phone, "come here and hang - take me job hunting", the craigslist place didn't answer the phone, etc., etc., etc.

He has no money, he has no job, he has no friends, he has nothing to do, he has no car, he has no life, everything is terrible, nothing is ever right, he has no property, people in the college town lied to him because he was supposed to stay with them and then they wouldn't let him and they broke his stuff (specifically a $120 bong ) Everyone wants something from him, he's being pulling and pushed and it's awful and horrible and all he wants is for everything to go away and stop (not in an "I don't want to live" way - he specified).

An HOUR - an entire hour of this. He apparently punched his door again and his hand was bleeding. I - again - suggested he see a therapist. Yeah - that doesn't go over well. I tell him he needs to learn new ways to deal with his emotions. He says he has ways (driving around and hanging out and spending money and whatever) and he can't do that. I say, "Well perhaps you'd learn OTHER ways." I suggested he needs to deal with what can change - the money and job, which also fixes the car problem - and stop stressing about what he can't change. Whatever. I finally told him I had a conference call, just to get him off the phone.

10 minutes later he texts me he has a job interview today at 5 p.m.
So of course all is well and he's just fine after that.

I, however, can't function after that much stress. Even after he was off the phone and got the job interview I spent the REST of my work day searching the darn internet trying to figure out what company this is. He said, but I couldn't find it. After exhaustive sleuthing, I don't think it's a job he'll want. I found one place on-line talking about the company I think it is and it is very fly-by-night and sells vacuums door to door and we won't let him have the car for that - also they have a rep for not paying. BUT - since I'm not 100% sure and if they have him doing office work instead of sales, it might be okay - I told him he could use the car for the interview (it's in another town, but they have an office here.)

Yes, I know I should not have spent my time looking for this place. He comes by some of his obsessive nature honestly.

So I told him last night - "Do NOT do this again. Do NOT call me when you are all upset. Deal with it. I can't function after one of these calls and I won't lose my job over you. P.s. Look at your knuckles - THAT is why I keep suggesting therapy. Emotionally healthy people do not handle things like this. We have six free visits through work and good health insurance. If you ever want to change, let me know."

But I am resolved to NOT take these calls anymore. I can't turn off my phone - but I can let it go to voice mail.

 

[dstc_99]

But I am resolved to NOT take these calls anymore. I can't turn off my phone - but I can let it go to voice mail.

I am now doing the same thing. I simply forward difficult child's texts to husband and let him handle them. I don't have a stressful or busy job and I could handle it but I don't want to. I simply dont want to.

 

[Childofmine]

Lil, I'm sorry. I know, I know. I used to get these calls too. difficult child couldn't seem to handle any issue, any problem that occurred. It was unbelievable.

I remember the day I was sitting in an Al-Anon meeting, and in the silence, suddenly, it occurred to me that I didn't have to answer the phone when he called.

Out of the blue, this idea surfaced.

I had always thought that a good mother always answers the phone when one of her children---even adult children---calls. It wasn't even on my radar screen NOT to answer.

I am sure if somebody else had suggested that, I would have instantly rejected the thought.

Lil, today, you learned a new tool you can use. It's called voice mail.

I would suggest telling him this: I will take no more phone calls from you between the hours of 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. If you call, I will let the call go to voice mail. I will be glad to talk with you between the hours of 5 p.m. and 9 p.m., if we can have an adult conversation...or whatever you want to say....

One boundary at a time.

 

[Lil]

Well heck, sometimes it really does seem he can't catch a break. He left an hour early, drove 1/2 hour to the interview, got there a little early --- and there was NO ONE THERE! He called twice, waited 20 minutes for a call back, then said he was coming home.

It's liable to be a sad, somewhat trying night at my house. Prayers are welcome. He doesn't take frustration and disappointment well.

 

[tishthedish]

Hi Lil. I've been reading along for the past couple of weeks. I haven't posted on myself lately because I don't have what's happening in my life straight in my own mind enough to post. But something you said so resonated with me.

So I told him last night - "Do NOT do this again. Do NOT call me when you are all upset. Deal with it. I can't function after one of these calls and I won't lose my job over you.

I had a job I loved several years ago. The people were sometimes difficult, but the job itself was a dream job. It was 3 miles from my house, it offered benefits, pension and I pretty much had carte blanche over my job duties. I never worked so hard, but it was rewarding. One morning I had several phone calls in rapid succession from my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) difficult child 2 much like you are describing. He was falling apart at college (we later found out due to drugs). On that same day it turned into a difficult time at work due to a key employee walking out unexpectedly in the middle of a huge project. I was the only one with a similar skill set so the huge project fell in my lap where difficult child 1 and difficult child 2 resided. As it turns out the pressures of both job and supermom were too much and after I finished the project I ended up giving notice and quitting the job. If my personal life wasn't aflame, I would have been able to handle the situation at work without breaking a sweat, but instead I fell apart. I still get a tug in my gut when I drive by my former employer. I know how good I had it in spite of the demands. My son went on to many more years of mayhem and it hasn't stopped yet. That was six years ago.

Try not to fall prey to the back and forth of your sons moods and actions. I understand only too well that when they are kids, as moms, we feel it is part of our job to be more involved but once their obligation to obey/listen to us is outgrown and the law says we have no rights over their actions we need to stop. It's not easy, but it's not impossible.

Using the analogy of a county fair, think of it as getting off the roller coaster and instead getting on the bumper cars. After that, step down to the ferris wheel. Continue on to the merry-go-round. Exit through the petting zoo. Right now I go between the ferris wheel and merry-go-round. I hope never again to visit the roller coaster, but I know that in order to avoid it I have to not stand in line to buy a ticket and keep moving away from it's flashing lights and loud music. Sometimes, when I look back I can see that it LOOKS like it's slowing down, and the music is softer but I know that once I climb on back on the brakes come off, the volume shoots up and I am locked in place. Here I go again. ARGHHHHHHH! Let me off!

One more thing we have in common. Why is it that we feel so strongly about keeping our word to our difficult child's? I have been lied to repeatedly. BUT, I still keep my word to him because I am honorable as if it will finally rub off on him. The rules apply to me but not him. Not fair. If things get too bad we shouldn't feel honor bound to live up to our word. It's so hard to stand by our word when we are hanging on for dear life on the roller coaster. I'm going to be giving this some serious thought to this because I "kept my word" about covering the copay on my difficult child 2's medications until he was off our insurance at 26. His b-day is in the fall. Yet...the money I'm saving him, what is he spending it on? Probably oil for the roller coaster wheels.

 

[Lil]

Tish, I've been at my job 20 years as of July 1. It's not exciting or glamorous, I'm in civil service, but I feel I help people, it's got it's moments where it's rewarding, and best of all, it's stable and the pay isn't great for a lawyer, but it's pretty good for civil service. I've got great benefits, retirement I don't even have to pay into, and lots of vacation and sick leave.

Not jeopardizing this job for anyone...especially a 19 year old in a tantrum.

It's so easy to feel like you need to fix things. When he was in daycare - I would get to work and the phone would ring and I'd have to go back because they couldn't handle his tantrum. Then there was school and doing things associated with that. And he's been so needy. There have been tantrums, and tears, and skinned knees and hurt feelings and I've always been the one to fix things.

I just really, truly, can't do it anymore. I'm so tired. I go to bed exhausted and can't sleep and wake up tired. I'm not young anymore. I'm 50 years old and I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol and borderline diabetes. I need to take care of myself! I need to get enough rest and lose weight and ... and I never find time and when I have time I'm too tired.

I truly wonder sometimes if he's going to make me have a stroke...and if he'd care. Think of all the insurance money if my husband and I died together.

That's a horrible thought. He hasn't deserved that. But it's not the worst one I've had. He's just been so difficult for so long. And I KNOW there are worse kids and kids with worst problems. Some of you have had them. I feel bad that I am even complaining here. It could be so much worse.

And on that note, think I'll try to go to bed.

 

[Childofmine]

I'm so tired.

I would amend that to say: I'm so sick and tired. That's why you're here on this board, Lil. You are looking for a different way.

You've done and done and done and done, and still the raw gaping hole of need that is our difficult children is never filled up.

Nobody---nobody in this world---can fill the need of another human being. THEY have to fill their own needs. They have to live their own lives. We can't live their lives for them.

The only way to give them space and time and a chance to do that, is for us to create that space and time and distance.

It's way past time, way way way, past time, for us to focus on ourselves. That doesn't mean cut them off at the knees.

It's detachment with love. And the space and time and distance helps us do that.

Lil, start creating more space between the two of you. Do it in little ways at first, and then in bigger ways. Do it slowly so it works for YOU.

You will start to feel so much better. I guarantee it. Warm hugs and good sleep.

 

[Echolette]

Why is it that we feel so strongly about keeping our word to our difficult child's? I have been lied to repeatedly. BUT, I still keep my word to him because I am honorable as if it will finally rub off on him. The rules apply to me but not him.

Tish, you are so right about this. We talked about this on another thread. I think the essence int he end was...of course you can change your stand. The phrasing was "I've thought more about this and in light of (recent events, your behavior, what you said yestarday, what you did yestarday, how you behaved, your recent choices, WHATEVER applies) I've reconsidered and will not be doing X (giving you money, paying your car insurance, letting you stay...whatever).

I like the option of alerting them that after due consideration we find ourselves in a different place.

I too am guilty of thinking that silent modelling will teach people..that is why I do the dishes alone every night after making dinner for my boys alone every night....I have the CRAZY IDEA THAT THEY WILL LOOK up and say...gee, that ain't right.

They won't do that.

And they are even easy child's!

So silent modelling doesn't really work well, and it doesn't work at all with difficult child's. I don't think just plan going back on your promises feels good to us but the "in light of recent events" approach bridges that gap.

Echo

 

[Childofmine]

Why is it that we feel so strongly about keeping our word to our difficult child's? I have been lied to repeatedly. BUT, I still keep my word to him because I am honorable as if it will finally rub off on him. The rules apply to me but not him. Not fair. If things get too bad we shouldn't feel honor bound to live up to our word. It's so hard to stand by our word when we are hanging on for dear life on the roller coaster.

I used to have a really, really hard time with this. I would get all engaged and involved in trying to figure out his life and what I was going to do/not do, and say/not say, and it was all too much. I would find myself saying things I didn't want to do at all, in the heat of the moment, and then I didn't know how to get out of the situation. I felt weak. I felt like I didn't know what I was doing, and I was confused all the time, and I didn't like what I was doing or saying----and especially what he was doing or saying---about 90 percent of the time. The whole thing was a mess.

Then, over time I came to see an important truth: I can change my mind at any time. And really, I don't have to rationalize why to anybody. All I have to do, I believe, out of courtesy, is to tell the person that I've changed my mind and I won't be doing ___________.

Another saying that is relevant in Al-Anon: No is a complete sentence.*** Now, I still have a hard time just saying No to anybody, but I used to spend 10 minutes explaining why I was saying no, in my own Southern way, in an attempt to soften it.

I just wanted everybody to like me and be happy. That was an overriding concern. But today, I am less and less concerned with that, and more and more concerned with maintaining my own good health, mental, physical, spiritual, emotional.

If they start carrying on about it---which also always happened---and it was really hard at first to stand up to the barrage, and I would start to rethink and get confused and feel bad again---but over time, I learned that I could kindly say, The answer is no, and I don't want to talk about this anymore.

I am learning not to be mean about it. Another saying: Mean what you say, but don't be mean about what you say. ***

***Brought to you by the great folks at Al-Anon...

The phrasing was "I've thought more about this and in light of (recent events, your behavior, what you said yestarday, what you did yestarday, how you behaved, your recent choices, WHATEVER applies) I've reconsidered and will not be doing X (giving you money, paying your car insurance, letting you stay...whatever).
I like the option of alerting them that after due consideration we find ourselves in a different place.

I like this Echo. I think we can always provide some context if we wish---or not---and just be simple and short and firm and kind with it all.

We can leave them sputtering and cursing and yelling about it, too. We can be calm while they are not.

This comes over time, and is not easily achieved or won. I find it helps me so much to write it down, take it with me, and whip it out at the right time, when the conversation begins.