As I Sit Here - UPDATED FROM COURT
- Thread starter Janna
- Start date
witzend
Well-Known Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will never, ever do this to Dylan. If he becomes a raging, stealing, lying, out of control maniac, I will deal with it before I put him in this system. Never again.</div></div>
Ever? I know that you are a rational person, and that you are feeling like your life is spinning out of control. But generalized statements like that can be very self defeating. If this wasn't the right choice for you right now, it doesn't mean that you can't learn and grow from it and make it work better for you in the future should you ever need it.
My innermost niggling fear is that I will see my difficult child on the news as a serial rapist/robber/murderer. It probably won't happen, but some days it feels that way. I put him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) 3 years ago and it was a huge mistake. Not because we were wrong, it was because the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was wrong and I didn't have enough information to make it right. He was violent towards us, out of control, violent at school, a thief and a liar. It seems there was probably some drugs involved as well. I don't know where else I could have had him go, but he couldn't stay here. We did what we could with what we had and all things being equal, I'd do the same thing again. And if I knew M was a raging, stealing, lying, out of control maniac, I'd call the police in a heartbeat. My other choices (if he were still a minor) would be to kick him out on the street; let him violate our safety; or chain him to a radiator. Not gonna happen.
I know this is difficult right now, but you can't know what will happen in the future with difficult child. In all honesty, I don't remember why you placed him, but it must have been something that was too much for you to bear at the time. There's also no way for you to know where you'd all be at now if you hadn't placed him. You did the best you could with what you had.
I know that this feels miserable right now, but you're a strong woman, with a whole crowd standing behind you. Things are what they are and all anyone can do is make the best of it. Saying you will never do something that has proven to be difficult with one child because it turned out badly with another is setting the second child up to act out in any way they please, and setting yourself up to be in way over your head.
Ever? I know that you are a rational person, and that you are feeling like your life is spinning out of control. But generalized statements like that can be very self defeating. If this wasn't the right choice for you right now, it doesn't mean that you can't learn and grow from it and make it work better for you in the future should you ever need it.
My innermost niggling fear is that I will see my difficult child on the news as a serial rapist/robber/murderer. It probably won't happen, but some days it feels that way. I put him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) 3 years ago and it was a huge mistake. Not because we were wrong, it was because the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was wrong and I didn't have enough information to make it right. He was violent towards us, out of control, violent at school, a thief and a liar. It seems there was probably some drugs involved as well. I don't know where else I could have had him go, but he couldn't stay here. We did what we could with what we had and all things being equal, I'd do the same thing again. And if I knew M was a raging, stealing, lying, out of control maniac, I'd call the police in a heartbeat. My other choices (if he were still a minor) would be to kick him out on the street; let him violate our safety; or chain him to a radiator. Not gonna happen.
I know this is difficult right now, but you can't know what will happen in the future with difficult child. In all honesty, I don't remember why you placed him, but it must have been something that was too much for you to bear at the time. There's also no way for you to know where you'd all be at now if you hadn't placed him. You did the best you could with what you had.
I know that this feels miserable right now, but you're a strong woman, with a whole crowd standing behind you. Things are what they are and all anyone can do is make the best of it. Saying you will never do something that has proven to be difficult with one child because it turned out badly with another is setting the second child up to act out in any way they please, and setting yourself up to be in way over your head.
dreamer
New Member
sometimes we find out things are not what we thought they were, or maybe they are not working the way "theory" says they work.
We criticize our difficult children and are disappointed when they do not learn thru their experiences and make the same mistakes over again- doing the same things that already got them certain results. If we keep doing what we always do we will get what we always got?
Sometimes one place might be the wrong place, but sometimes an entire system is totally flawed and not working right. From what I have read here of Jannas situation, it was not one foster home that was wrong, or one court hearing or one thing, it was many things, many times, over and over again where it all never came together quite right. And it sure seems highly possible that instead of helping her child over time, in the long run, it caused MORE damage. IF that is the case, why would Janna want to ever try it again? Once burned, twice shy.
I am confused and not sure why people here are having such difficulty with any of us saying something like this? It is not quite the same as saying I never WILL do that- it is saying OK I have done this and for us it did not work, so now I am not doing that again. AND I do not see Janna telling anyone else not to try it.
We criticize our difficult children and are disappointed when they do not learn thru their experiences and make the same mistakes over again- doing the same things that already got them certain results. If we keep doing what we always do we will get what we always got?
Sometimes one place might be the wrong place, but sometimes an entire system is totally flawed and not working right. From what I have read here of Jannas situation, it was not one foster home that was wrong, or one court hearing or one thing, it was many things, many times, over and over again where it all never came together quite right. And it sure seems highly possible that instead of helping her child over time, in the long run, it caused MORE damage. IF that is the case, why would Janna want to ever try it again? Once burned, twice shy.
I am confused and not sure why people here are having such difficulty with any of us saying something like this? It is not quite the same as saying I never WILL do that- it is saying OK I have done this and for us it did not work, so now I am not doing that again. AND I do not see Janna telling anyone else not to try it.
witzend
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying we should never close and lock doors behind us. Life isn't made up of absolutes. I understand her pain. But limiting options because it didn't work for one of them isn't always the answer. Someone else may make that decision for her. Then where does "never" get her?
No doubt, she got sc**w*d. That doesn't mean that it always will be that way,especially if she learns and grows from this and accepts that bull sh** like this happens even when you aren't the one who asked for it. That Just because she won't ever do it doesn't mean someone else won't call the police or put her other child into the same system this one is in and she won't be right back in that judge's courtroom again.
Have a good cry, get mad as heck. (And I don't mean heck.) And do what you can to prepare yourself for the next round.
Life is messy. Learn and grow. It's how we get better at it.
No doubt, she got sc**w*d. That doesn't mean that it always will be that way,especially if she learns and grows from this and accepts that bull sh** like this happens even when you aren't the one who asked for it. That Just because she won't ever do it doesn't mean someone else won't call the police or put her other child into the same system this one is in and she won't be right back in that judge's courtroom again.
Have a good cry, get mad as heck. (And I don't mean heck.) And do what you can to prepare yourself for the next round.
Life is messy. Learn and grow. It's how we get better at it.
dreamer
New Member
Well, thats part of it. she sais SHE would not do this to Dylan, she did not say noone else would.
I agree we do not want to close and lock doors, but...... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I am in NO hurry to retrace any steps to any place where I got hurt. Someone might throw me in those places again, but I do not care if they remodel or anything- I will never go to those same places again. They hurt me WAY too much, hurt my kids WAY WAY too much. I was seeking help- not further hurt. When you open a door and see monsters and demons behind that door, I think it is wise and smart to slam that door shut, lock it and throw away the key. Now if another of my children wanders in thru a back door......via some other way.....thats a whole 'nother story.
We can grow and learn, sure, and I am sure she did. BUT that is little comfort or solace when your child remains in harms way. And it is little help when you grow but the system is still the same. It is one thing if there simply was not the help you are looking for but it is another thing when it ends up HURTING people.
I agree we do not want to close and lock doors, but...... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I am in NO hurry to retrace any steps to any place where I got hurt. Someone might throw me in those places again, but I do not care if they remodel or anything- I will never go to those same places again. They hurt me WAY too much, hurt my kids WAY WAY too much. I was seeking help- not further hurt. When you open a door and see monsters and demons behind that door, I think it is wise and smart to slam that door shut, lock it and throw away the key. Now if another of my children wanders in thru a back door......via some other way.....thats a whole 'nother story.
We can grow and learn, sure, and I am sure she did. BUT that is little comfort or solace when your child remains in harms way. And it is little help when you grow but the system is still the same. It is one thing if there simply was not the help you are looking for but it is another thing when it ends up HURTING people.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I worked as a foster parent. I know this isn't the way all foster parents see it, but for me it was an eye opening look at how flawed the system is. Kids were taken away that never should have gone. Kids were reunified after their parent tried to murder them (I swear on a stack of Bibles, and then the social workers expressed shock when she broke his leg and the poor kid finally got away from her for good). Judges are not created equal. When we had our eleven year old sexual abuser, the judge was kind, understanding and respectful of me and hub. But it was the luck of the draw. Another judge may have said, "Why did it take you so long to figure it out?" It's a question I ask myself every day and it could have really been the end of our family if the judge had blamed us for something we already felt so guilty about that I ended up on a psychiatric ward for a week. I never advise anyone to give their kids to the system. They promise a lot and lie a lot, and I had talked to bio. parents who were stunned that they had lost most of any say-so of their kids. After three years of it, we quit foster care and, after adopting eleven year old, we decided never to bring an older child into our house again. I would never put my child into foster care, but I know the system, most don't. And that doesn't mean it's wrong for somebody else to do it. But, really, you have to remember that is no big litmus test to being a foster parent. We take six weeks of classes that you can't really apply to the situation, and that's all. There are many foster parents like Janna's foster mom who feels righteous and like SHE can do what nobody else can, and that the parent is in the wrong. Think carefully before giving your kid to somebody else. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Janna had no idea it would turn out like this. If a child is doing poorly with people who love and want to help him, how can strangers do a better job? As for Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, if a kid is violent, you have no choice, but, in my opinion, I don't think Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s really address the problems. Still, it's a viable option when a child is too dangerous too live at home. Too bad we don't have better options. Just a little rant here :smile:
Janna
New Member
Thanks for defending me, Dreamer. LOL! I appreciate it, and feel relieved someone understands where I am coming from.
I am going to "justify" my statement here once, then would prefer this whole discussion be dropped.
I PLACED difficult child 2 because he was running away from home, stealing, getting in trouble at school and being physically/verbally abusive to my other children.
I placed him into an all boys school/Residential Treatment Center (RTC) type setting that was to be until 12th grade (he was 11 when he went in), and they wound up discharging him when he was 13 into a theraputic foster home. The theraputic foster mother said he wasn't ready to come home, but because the foster care agency was pushing her, she had to keep quiet. They sent him home, within 2 weeks he had kicked out Dylan's two front teeth and slammed easy child in the head with a die cast metal truck. He was then sent out again. He's never been back.
That's it in a nutshell with him.
When I said I will NEVER PUT DYLAN INTO THIS SYSTEM, I meant it. I don't know which part of that is not understood. I am a person that says what I mean and means what I say.
What I mean is, I already know how this system in MY COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA works and I will NOT go through it again. This does NOT mean that the adjoining county is the same way. This does not mean Linda's "system" or kris's "system" or dreamer's "system" is the same as mine. MY SYSTEM and what MY SON is going through SUCKS. I WILL NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT put Dylan into it, already knowing how it is.
None of you have had to be here in my shoes. So, you will never fully understand what I have gone through.
I do not see why this is such an issue. Yes, the system works incredibly for some. I am here to say, it screwed me.
So, keep your eyes open if your child is in it. I'm not saying THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN THE WHOLE UNITED STATES is tainted. However, the system my son is in, is.
Janna
I am going to "justify" my statement here once, then would prefer this whole discussion be dropped.
I PLACED difficult child 2 because he was running away from home, stealing, getting in trouble at school and being physically/verbally abusive to my other children.
I placed him into an all boys school/Residential Treatment Center (RTC) type setting that was to be until 12th grade (he was 11 when he went in), and they wound up discharging him when he was 13 into a theraputic foster home. The theraputic foster mother said he wasn't ready to come home, but because the foster care agency was pushing her, she had to keep quiet. They sent him home, within 2 weeks he had kicked out Dylan's two front teeth and slammed easy child in the head with a die cast metal truck. He was then sent out again. He's never been back.
That's it in a nutshell with him.
When I said I will NEVER PUT DYLAN INTO THIS SYSTEM, I meant it. I don't know which part of that is not understood. I am a person that says what I mean and means what I say.
What I mean is, I already know how this system in MY COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA works and I will NOT go through it again. This does NOT mean that the adjoining county is the same way. This does not mean Linda's "system" or kris's "system" or dreamer's "system" is the same as mine. MY SYSTEM and what MY SON is going through SUCKS. I WILL NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT put Dylan into it, already knowing how it is.
None of you have had to be here in my shoes. So, you will never fully understand what I have gone through.
I do not see why this is such an issue. Yes, the system works incredibly for some. I am here to say, it screwed me.
So, keep your eyes open if your child is in it. I'm not saying THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN THE WHOLE UNITED STATES is tainted. However, the system my son is in, is.
Janna
dreamer
New Member
Ah Janna, while my heart is absolutely broken for you, I am not sure if I am exactly defending you per se.
You see, very often I feel judged here by MY choices I have made for me and my kids. This thread helped me a little, so I could explain a lil more about how I came to some of my decisions.
The sad truth is, I wish I could turn back the clock, and go back to the time when I thought there really was good solid decent help for my difficult child and my family. I wish I could turn back the clock and not take us on the path we were on, and see if it turned out differently.
Looking at my 2nd difficult child and watching how things look so far? SO far it is looking ok fine that I am NOT going the same path I did with my first difficult child.
I can live with both, I did what I thought best and right each time. Just so happenes what I thought was best and right each time turned out to be 2 very different ways. I HAVE learned and grown from my oldest child to my youngest. My heart has always been in the right place, and I have worked very hard doing what my heart has told me to do, coupled with my personal experiences and current knowledge out in the world available to me.
ANd like you, Janna, I will NEVER EVER put my 2nd difficult child into the system.
You see, very often I feel judged here by MY choices I have made for me and my kids. This thread helped me a little, so I could explain a lil more about how I came to some of my decisions.
The sad truth is, I wish I could turn back the clock, and go back to the time when I thought there really was good solid decent help for my difficult child and my family. I wish I could turn back the clock and not take us on the path we were on, and see if it turned out differently.
Looking at my 2nd difficult child and watching how things look so far? SO far it is looking ok fine that I am NOT going the same path I did with my first difficult child.
I can live with both, I did what I thought best and right each time. Just so happenes what I thought was best and right each time turned out to be 2 very different ways. I HAVE learned and grown from my oldest child to my youngest. My heart has always been in the right place, and I have worked very hard doing what my heart has told me to do, coupled with my personal experiences and current knowledge out in the world available to me.
ANd like you, Janna, I will NEVER EVER put my 2nd difficult child into the system.
Just keep swimming
New Member
Janna,
I am sorry you are hurting. I totally understand and can relate. I will never put Aly or Jayme through the system in our county if there is even an inkling of hope through some other treatment facility. The 5 weeks Aly was out of our home in a "Therapeutic foster home" were there worst weeks of my life. I am a foster mom, I could have done a better job than this family did for Aly. I know I haven't had near the experiences you have had, so I do not feel competent to make judgements of you or any of your decisions. Because, this is YOUR family and YOU are attempting to live your life with the hand God dealt you. You are an amazing person, I have always thought so. I just wish it could be easier for you. Darn it all to heck, lost my magic wand once again!!!
Many understanding hugs,
Vickie
I am sorry you are hurting. I totally understand and can relate. I will never put Aly or Jayme through the system in our county if there is even an inkling of hope through some other treatment facility. The 5 weeks Aly was out of our home in a "Therapeutic foster home" were there worst weeks of my life. I am a foster mom, I could have done a better job than this family did for Aly. I know I haven't had near the experiences you have had, so I do not feel competent to make judgements of you or any of your decisions. Because, this is YOUR family and YOU are attempting to live your life with the hand God dealt you. You are an amazing person, I have always thought so. I just wish it could be easier for you. Darn it all to heck, lost my magic wand once again!!!
Many understanding hugs,
Vickie
