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[pasajes4]

I have not been on here for several years. My journey began when my son was a pre-teen. He is now 26. He is mentally ill and abuses drugs. Our relationship is non existent. I fully accept that I more than likely contributed to his difficulties even though that was never my intention ( hindsight stinks). This is where the current situation begins.

Several years ago around the age 20, I made my son leave my home due to his refusal to even attempt to be a decent human. I would then take him back in out of guilt it because showed a glimmer of change. It never lasted long. The final straw for me was when he threw bricks through my bedroom window and came within an inch from my granddaughter being hit by flying glass and the bricks themselves.

Fast forward. I was involved in a horrific accident that left me permanently physically disabled. I met a wonderful man and we married a year ago and moved out in the country. I also changed my phone number so he could not contact me.

A week ago he contacted his sister asking her to get him some food because he did not have any. He is working for a temp service. When she got to the apartment, she found that he is living with a woman and her six kids in absolute filth and squalor. None of the kids are enrolled in school. They have no electricity or water and are about to be evicted. My daughter felt compelled to help because of the children. I would up contributing 450 dollars for food and clothing.

The end result of all of this is that I feel myself being sucked back into " rescue" mode. I also feel like a monster for not wanting any contact with him. My daughter is the mother of my grand that almost got injured by my son. If they could forgive him and want to help him, because he seems to be trying. Why can't I? I don't know what to do. We did find out there is a child protective case because of their living condition.

Your thoughts and perspective would be much appreciated.

 

[ksm]

I understand what a difficult situation you are in. Can you see a therapist, and maybe a few appointments with your daughter to set some boundaries you both can live with?

If the living conditions are that horrific, maybe it is best if the children are removed and the parents work a case plan. It seems like if there are 6 kids and 2 adults, they should be getting food stamps and wic. I hope those children get to a safe clean place... ksm

 

[JC RoseWoods]

We appear to have logged on here at the same time and I’ma believer in Jesus more than coincidence. We haven’t achieved complete emeritus status, as we still have one cold remaining at home, but hopefully that won’t result in your rejecting what I can share.

Fixed and firm boundaries are an absolute requirement when dealing with BH disorders that have a higher risk of antisocial or borderline PD traits. The research supports it, which is great on paper, but tends to suck overall in practice. Further worsening the issue is it’s often difficult, if not impossible, to find the line between helping your son (out of love I imagine) who is in need and enabling.

Scripture says to forgive. It’s said in a manner that seems ridiculous to many, but the message in this is also a parable of a principle. Not to hold anger, hatred, hurt, etcetera, in your heart. I’m not saying or implying that is what you’re doing by the way. You can forgive without a concurrent requirement of selective amnesia. It is pretty well-substantiated that the most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This is far from being absolute and completely disregards the concept of the potential for personal growth with those accurately and appropriately diagnosed with a DSM-5 Behavioral Health (BH) disorder. A good way to summarize all of the research and medical jargon would be the following; has your son changed? Unfortunately, most-likely not, but it’s not impossible and I’m a firm believer in hope regardless of the risk of pain stemming from being let down.

If you’re a believer and follower of Jesus, obviously the first recommendation is seeking Him in peaceful and earnest prayer. If you aren’t, that’s cool too because we’d be happy to do so on your behalf (already have ).

Either way, the next step would be to ask yourself the following questions and answer them through a combined approach involving your heart AND your brain working together (Intelligent Love).

How much are you willing to risk in order to give him a chance to demonstrate any personal growth?

What strategies can be implemented to mitigate the risks?

Considering that your daughter appears to be your designated control group for your own morale compass, what are the similarities and differences between you and your daughter regarding boundaries?

In what ways are your daughter’s relationship and history with your son different than your own?

In what ways, if any, is the current situation regarding CPS consistent with your son’s history of maladaptive behavior? I’m sure that you can also find some supportive evidence of his potential growth, or absence of, with an online search as well.

Has your son been consistently engaged in any BH treatment? Treatment started after any allegations should be filtered through any prior pattern of manipulative behaviors. Think of the “honeymoon” phase of abusers then do your best to understand that you’ve likely experienced emotional abuse by your son, which makes him a historical abuser despite how ugly that may feel to acknowledge.

Are you and your spouse unified regarding this issue? This is important given the potential risks involved.

There are myriad other questions that we could come up with, but the end result is the same; application of Intelligent Love through critical thinking.

Ok, I’m sorry for this overly-long reply. Good luck and God Bless!

C

 

[pasajes4]

Thank you for your response. Your suggestions resonate with me. I realize that I am dealing with PTSD due to this recent development, and I am stepping back so that I do not make any rash and emotional decisions.

 

[pasajes4]

I understand what a difficult situation you are in. Can you see a therapist, and maybe a few appointments with your daughter to set some boundaries you both can live with?

If the living conditions are that horrific, maybe it is best if the children are removed and the parents work a case plan. It seems like if there are 6 kids and 2 adults, they should be getting food stamps and wic. I hope those children get to a safe clean place... ksm

Thank you for your response. The children are not my son's. I do hope they are removed for their safety. Something is very off in this scenario. There are so many programs and resources for women and children in their city. I feel that there is a unsavory reason why she is not trying to get help and is willing to live in squalor.

 

[ksm]

Thank you for your response. The children are not my son's. I do hope they are removed for their safety. Something is very off in this scenario. There are so many programs and resources for women and children in their city. I feel that there is a unsavory reason why she is not trying to get help and is willing to live in squalor.

Agreed... there is help out there, but they may be too impaired to make calls and complete forms....

 

[pasajes4]

My daughter offered to assist them in contacting various agencies and in getting the children's birth certificates and shot records. The response was that child protective services was already involved and that they just wanted food and money. Something is just not adding up.

 

[BusynMember1]

Sounds like your son is now using your daughter for money instead of you. I hope she gets out of his mess. I hope this doesn't upset you. I meant it kindly.

Is your son a drug addict? Tbh it sounds as if they both may be. If he has had addiction problems, he is the only one who can help himself. My daughter has drug problems and is mentally ill but she won't get help. I don't send anything anymore. She gets government services. Your son can get them too. He just needs to apply. Bet he could even qualify for Disability. My daughter gets it now.
I am so sorry for his situation but he has to solve it. I hope you continue to enjoy your husband and wherever you now live. Sounds as if you richly deserve happiness.

Hugs and blessings.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi pasajes. It's been many years. I have thought about you and hoped you were well. I am sorry for the horrific accident, and so happy you have found happiness. I will put in my two cents.

they just wanted food and money.

With 6 children, this mother is receiving cash and food stamps for herself and the 6 children. I am uncertain how much that would be but I am guessing at least $2000, but that is just a guess. That may even be her motivation to keep having children, because each child generates additional cash. There are programs to assist mothers like this to become educated and receive job training. Something is going on so as to either prevent this mother from functioning or she is unmotivated to do so, or both.

This cannot be solved by more cash. It sounds to me that the children are at risk in this family, or worse, they're cash cows and little more. Shoring up this situation can only contribute to the children's greater suffering.

While it's a good thing that your son is working for the temp agency, shoring up this dysfunctional situation seems to me to be a "finger in a dyke" situation.

None of this computes, in terms of looking at it logically. The mother has cash coming in. Your son is bringing in cash. Where's the cash? Food stamps alone would be enough to feed the group. Are they selling the food stamps?

My instincts would say "stay away" to not get involved with this unit of people. If your son calls you directly that is another matter.

Finally, I think you are worth protecting. I think your tranquility and relationship are worth protecting. I think it was a healthy thing to draw the line when your son became violent and it came so close to real peril. I think it was the best possible thing you could do, when you had the accident, to circle the wagons.

I am glad you came back to us.

Love, Copa

 

[JC RoseWoods]

Thank you for your response. Your suggestions resonate with me. I realize that I am dealing with PTSD due to this recent development, and I am stepping back so that I do not make any rash and emotional decisions.

Although this message wasn’t directly tied to my post, I assume it’s a reply to my message since it follows it. Although I have no idea whom Copa is, I think that it’s really great that a former supporter was able to link up with you despite your not being here for years. As a new “member,” this helps validate this site in my eyes. Words can’t quantify how alone we have felt as parents in this. The adage about misery living company isn’t what I would imagine any of of us are seeking. I wouldn’t wish our experiences with our children on anyone. Don’t get me wrong, we love our children in spite of themselves, but that doesn’t mean we should be oblivious to what they are.

As for the PTSD, that isn’t surprising. Emotional and psychological abuse tends to leave a lasting impression. Have you engaged in any of your own BH treatment? I highly recommend it as evidence-based psychotherapy (EBP) does much more than most realize. Yes, one can learn deep breathing and various other strategies and techniques, but there’s a underlying neurobiological benefit as well. Another huge concept that I’ll attempt to summarize as this; you can teach your brain a new way to think.

One thing I really pushed with those entrusted to my care was their accountability and ownership of their own mind. As long as you have mental competence and capacity, you are in charge of your brain and not the other way around. Typically I’d add some levity to this conversation, but that seems a bit more difficult for me to accomplish in these messages. Fortunately for me I can plagiarize from those that are better at that skill and create memes. I tried to add one to this message but failed miserably. I’ll work on that for the future

Wish you the best,

C

 

[pasajes4]

Thank you Cops. I have used the last several days to gather my wagons and reach out to my circle of support.
I was given a visual of my situation. Imagine a ruler on the floor marked 1-80 to represent your lifespan. Stand at your current age and see how much time has passed. How much of that time has been consumed in trying to fix your loved ones life. Then turn and look how much time you MAY have left. I am 69 and in a wheelchair permanently. I have a wonderful man in my life. We live out in the country on a peaceful little ranch. I deserve this. I NEED this. I considered bringing my son and company out here. I broke out in a sweat and got sick to my stomach. That squashed that idea.
I will have a conversation with my daughter about not involving me. If she wants to help, that's fine. I hope she can afford to do it. I believe she contacted me so that I would volunteer the money. I did. She has never come straight out to ask for money. She will just put it out there that money is tight so that I can never say that she asked.
We ALL deserve PEACE!

 

[Acacia]

Oh, pasajes. Take care of yourself. Your instincts are right. Your body breaking into a sweat is speaking to you. You can love your son, but you cannot save him, especially at the expense of you and your peaceful new life.

Every time I tried to rescue either of my difficult children, except for momentarily, it was throwing good money after bad, and the cost in emotional stress was even greater. Sending you positive energy.

 

[pasajes4]

Acacia, I agree. Allowing him back in my life would not do me or him any good. I do not know if I will ever be ready to have any kind of relationship with him. For the time being, I do not even want to know if my daughter has anything to do with him.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Pasa,
It’s been a long time for me as well, I have become a once in awhile poster- browser, trying to get my focus on living my life and raising my teen aged granddaughter. I’m so so sorry for your horrific accident, Lord knows you have been through the ringer dealing with your son through the years.
Yet, I am so happy that you found a good person to spend the rest of your life with in your country home!
It is a challenge to have our beloveds drift in and out of our lives with the drama that constantly unfolds with theirs. I find myself fending off this grief cloud that tries to attach itself to me, if I succumb to it I know where that leads- down that old rabbit hole.
I think Copa is spot on with her comments about welfare, cash issues and these six children being cash cows. It was the same for my grands. Sad to know that a mother would view her own children as such, but these are strange and dark scenarios we all know too well.
I am working continuously on boundaries, for my sanity, mental and emotional well being. I think in many of our situations that is imperative because it is so easy to get sucked in to the never ending drama our adult children get themselves into.
You have a life to live and protect. This is not selfish, it is self love and an example to our adult children on how we all need to care for our precious lives.
I am a bit more connected to Tornado- with the mindset that as long as she is in rehab and trying to quit meth and live a better life, I will be there in support (more emotional than monetary). This is oft times difficult as she is manipulative and prone to falling off the wagon and disappearing.
You have a different reality, with your own health, your sons issues and violent outbursts. I think you are right to step way back and live your life. If your daughter chooses to be involved that is her decision and not a reflection on how your own capacity of “forgiveness” factors in. We can forgive our adult children without engaging with them. It may sound callous, but I believe we have to do what is safe and sound for us.
When I start to falter in my resolve and that grief cloud hovers, I pray that God will help direct my two wayward daughters to their potential. Lord only knows hubs and I tried to “help” for so many years to no avail.
My Tornado in her rehab stints has repeatedly asked me if she could “come home”. It was and is hard to say no, not going to lie. I told her to stay the course, that it would be much better for her to go into sober living. I have written before that there is so much help for struggling adults. The most recent rehab set my daughter up with a job, drug classes, a place to live, the list goes on. This reinforced in my mind that we as parents of adult children are not the only resource to help them. That if they truly want assistance to live a better life it is out there.
Unfortunately, Tornado relapsed again, even with all that held out for her. I can only imagine what would have happened if I opened that old revolving door.
I think that my two don’t see me as a person, rather as an opportunity to manipulate and pull at my heart. It’s an awful reality. That’s not a healthy relationship for anybody, including them. I am glad Pasa that you are protecting your peace. Keep up that resolve.
Much love and (((hugs)))
New Leaf

 

[LoveTempered]

Hi Pasa-

I am new here but I have been working on firm boundaries for a long time. Another post up top suggested an anon program. Just wanted to add that the concepts from an anon program we've learned and practice imperfectly every day have saved my husband and me.

I have learned to accept that addiction /codependence /narcissism... can be like diseases that harm those around the sick person just like second-hand smoke can cause cancer. I now understand why it is hard to really detach because life with a sick person changes us and our brains. It confuses our experience of healthy ways to care for the people we love until we can end up serving their disease and not them. I am still learning how to detach with a love that is not wasted on the hungry illness that has enveloped our son. I hope and pray that you can fiercely protect the peace you have created for yourself.

I am learning to accept that only person who can help our son is our son and it has to be HIS desire to change and willingness to do the hard work to recover. Funny thing, the people who can support addicts in their recovery are not us but other addicts who have been where they have been. I am learning that we parents and family can actually make it harder for them. We do more for our kids by focusing on ourselves and practicing healthy relationships as we go. I like to think it gives them a model to shoot for instead of feeling selfish

I am so sorry for all that you have endured. You describe a life now that you richly deserve. It even gives me a dose of vicarious peace to imagine you in the country enjoying life with the man you love! It's so hard to do what everyone is suggesting but YOU ARE WORTH IT!

Take care,
LT

 

[Nomad]

I too am so sorry to hear that you had a horrific accident.
But how lovely you met a wonderful man and have married and found love and peace.
Especially since my husband has turned a certain age…and is still working yet …this combined with me not being far behind him and having health problems…hmmm. My eyes have opened wide. We are not robots. There are limits. Thank goodness we live in a country that does provide disability and so forth. Your son can make use of that and should. The woman with six kids…I agree with the others…very likely using and abusing the system and has big time problems. Sad.
If your daughter wants to gently guide him to government programs by giving him phone numbers…etc. Ok.
But, I would think both of you seriously should consider disengaging at 100 mph and take good care of yourselves. Blessings.

 

[pasajes4]

New Leaf, Nomad, and Love Tempered,
Thank you for your kind words. I have shored myself up and have gotten over the guilt/grief train.
The wonderful warrior parents on this site have gotten me through some of the worst days of my life.
We all deserve peace in our lives. It is my prayer that we can all find it and maintain it.

 

[pasajes4]

Dear Nomad, I have been following your journey in dealing with your daughter. You are absolutely doing the right thing by stopping the bank of mom and dad. You must make yourself and your husband a priority. We all need to do that. Nevermind what what others will say or how they might judge you. Their opinions are none of our concern. They don't live our truth or pay our bills.
Take care of YOU!!