Becoming involved again...

[Jabberwockey]

Yes it is. I can remember as a pre teen and teen just itching to become an "adult". Now, I scratch my balding head and wonder what the HELL I was thinking! I really can relate to Difficult Child's who fail to launch. Responsibility sucks! The thought of no responsibilities is very appealing. Problem is, without responsibilities we have no advancement. The fact of the matter is that no matter how much you want the perks of being an adult without the responsibilities, it just doesn't work. Those perks stem from, and are the benefits of accepting those responsibilities.

 

[Lil]

. As far as her searching for apartments, I know he is the one pushing for this area over where she's at. I think, for both of them, that particular area represents a nearness to their safety net.

Well there is also the fact that you can get a decent 1 bedroom apartment here for $350 to $400/mo. Where she is, more like $600. So almost half the price. Two people with a minimum wage income can find a reasonably nice place to live in this town and there are a lot of service-industry jobs.

 

[Jabberwockey]

So almost half the price.

True, but there are better long term job opportunities where she is. Hell, my dad could still probably get him on at GM. He would be starting out at damn near what I'm making now. And there was that factory that offered him the job right after he left my sisters that started out at $16 per hour. My pay after over 23 years figures up to just under $19.

It really would be easier to establish yourself in this area, save up for a few years, and then start trying for the jobs in that area and move there.

 

[sadandfrustrated]

Lil, you sound like you're getting defensive. Can I just suggest you pull a Scarlett O"Hara and think about his tomorrow?
No decisions have to be made today. Hugs, L

 

[Lil]

I don't feel defensive. I was just explaining what I think is going on here. Sorry it's coming across that way.

No, I made a promise to him and I'll keep it. I'll call some places and ask what amount of money they are looking at to move into them and what their requirements are. He wants her here by Thanksgiving. I have already told him that's unrealistic...but that's his business. I'm not going to do more than make calls and take some notes for him at this time.

 

[sadandfrustrated]

okay, sorry I misread you. It's hard to hear tone in the written word.

 

[pasajes4]

My son started working at his friends father's tech company in Dallas at 15.00 dollars an hour while in training. It is a job that is right up his alley. There are way better jobs there than here. I made about 30 dollars an hour after 35 years of teaching if you divided it up to include all the unpaid hours required to do the job.

 

[Lil]

We don't have very good paying jobs here for anyone unskilled - but the cost of living is quite low. So it's actually a better place for starting out.

 

[pasajes4]

How far are you from a major city?

 

[A dad]

My biggest concern with our son right now is the distinct possibility that his new found focus is ALL because of this girl. If she comes down here and they fail and she goes home, he will be devastated. I think that he is honestly trying to change, but he's trying to do it for her, not for himself. I can tell you from personal experience that this can be a recipe for disaster. I've wondered why he came here and left here there and I think the answer is that, in order for her to stay with him, he has to prove to her that he can maintain a job and residence. Lets be honest here, over the last few months he has turned her live upside down over and over again and I'm betting that the thought of it happening again scares the hell out of her. She needs stability and, in order for them to be together, he has to prove to her that he can provide it. Not fair of her but not unreasonable either, all things considered.

You know its somehow sad but you change a lot for the person you love. My family is known for being lets say irresponsible and immature and messy and lets say with a incredible low respect for women. For example my own father was to put it how I described above irresponsible, immature, messy but for some reason with a lot of success in the dating world if you call having a one night stand with a woman making her pregnant and then running out from the village. Or doing that again but this time forced to marry the women then leaving her and their 1 year old daughter by running away from the village again of course at least this time he stayed 1 year and he did all that while being a alcoholic with no stable job. Then after 10 years in his 30's he meet my mother that's right I have 2 older sisters that have children almost as old as me. Now this time love was in the mix and he stayed and raised us and was here for us until he died of a cruel disease.
Love changes people for the better and he seems to love that girl so that might the thing that will finally make him be a responsible adult.
And let me tell you something me and most of my sibling where quite similar to him while not at that extent we where immature people longer then we should have been and the person we eventually fell in love with made us change or ways and yes we changed not for ourselves but for others.
Now I raised 2 great children not perfect but well adjusted and did that with a wonderful wife and a great job well for me.
So why do I say this well because I believe now your son has the right motivation for him to change it was for me and for my departed father.

 

[Lil]

For some reason I can't quote you Pasa - but it's kind of hard to explain about where we are.

Technically, we're a city - population of about 44,000. So, a very small city. We're in the middle of the state and the two really major cities are on either side of us, about an hour and a half away or more, each. There is a city half an hour away of more than 100,000 people, but it's a college town and it has probably got fewer jobs and definitely higher costs. I can't really say much more without giving away the exact city - it would be easy to tell from any other details.

Love changes people for the better and he seems to love that girl so that might the thing that will finally make him be a responsible adult.

I don't know if he "really loves" her...but I know he wants to be with her. He's one of those people who always wants to "have people" around. If he doesn't have friends to hang out with he's completely "woe is me". He wants a girlfriend and says she's the only one who doesn't think he's a loser. He also seems to want to "rescue" her a bit. He goes on about how she needs to get out of the place she lives, how she's doing things she shouldn't, drinking, etc., because she's so unhappy.

He apparently has told her she can't "escape her problems" by drinking. Wow. I informed him I couldn't help but hear his voice in my head about how "Pot is the only thing that makes him happy." Of course he advised me that alcohol is a depressant and pot isn't. Let's just say...she's done some things while, apparently, black-out drunk that would cause most guys to break up with her - but he's willing to forgive, worries about her being unsafe, and still wants her to come here. He's actually used the phrase, "She's young and she has to learn from her mistakes."

I just don't even know what to think about that.

 

[pasajes4]

My son needs to be around people. He will hang out with people he does not like rather than be "bored". It always ends badly. He will meet a girl and declare his undying love 2 days later. Sometimes he won't even know/remember their names.

the reason I asked about proximity of a larger city is that right now places are hiring seasonal good paying jobs that can translate to full time jobs.

 

[Lil]

He will hang out with people he does not like rather than be "bored". It always ends badly. He will meet a girl and declare his undying love 2 days later. Sometimes he won't even know/remember their names.

Sounds about right. Of course, he at least knows his girls names - first name at least. He complains constantly about his "friends" but you'd think his life is over if he has nothing to do. He's always kind of been alone - being an only child - so you'd think he'd have figured out how to entertain himself.

 

[A dad]

My son needs to be around people. He will hang out with people he does not like rather than be "bored". It always ends badly. He will meet a girl and declare his undying love 2 days later. Sometimes he won't even know/remember their names.

the reason I asked about proximity of a larger city is that right now places are hiring seasonal good paying jobs that can translate to full time jobs.

Can you believe that is spite of all their problems their so charismatic this is what I found surprising about most difficult children here.

 

[Tired Mom]

We don't have very good paying jobs here for anyone unskilled - but the cost of living is quite low. So it's actually a better place for starting out.

I grew up in the Midwest and now we are living on the East Coast. I often think my difficult child might have a better chance of making it in the Midwest versus here.

 

[InsaneCdn]

being an only child - so you'd think he'd have figured out how to entertain himself.

Ironically, it takes good social skills to be able to "entertain one's self".

 

[in a daze]

He will hang out with people he does not like rather than be "bored"

He will hang out with people he does not like rather than be "bored".

He complains constantly about his "friends" but you'd think his life is over if he has nothing to do. He's always kind of been alone - being an only child - so you'd think he'd have figured out how to entertain himself.

Ironically, it takes good social skills to be able to "entertain one's self".

My difficult guy constantly complains about how he cannot find ways to fill up his free time. Today he told me he dreads his days off because he has to find things to do. This has been a little bit better lately as he has been going to the gym and meetings more often.

I think that instead of pursuing a hobby, they take drugs instead. When they're not using, or when they finally get sober, they have no idea how to amuse themselves. It was or is much easier to drug yourself than to engage with life.

 

[Copabanana]

I am just coming up to speed on your thread, Lil.

My experience was that I tried to help my son when he came to my small city. Not one bit of it worked. Except the disaster catapulted me to this forum which has been a great thing.

I know I cannot help my son at all. I think it is because I envision a result that I want him to have...and it is just that--my own desired result. Not his. It instantly falls apart. I am crushed.

All of the things we want for them, safe living places, productive work, self-respect, good health, means nothing, I now know. They are pipe dreams until they want it and make it happen themselves.

M, my SO, says I need to help my son at some point. I made the mistake the other day and said, I will help you. His answer? What will you do?

Quickly I recouped and said, when you decide upon and specific goal to improve your situation and put it into practice, I will assist as I am able and see fit.

I live in a small city that is bigger than yours, in the same set up with 2 larger cities on either side each an hour or so away, with a very large metro area almost 3 hours away.

It is there where my son is now. It is so much better for me.

He hates it here. Hates it. And still he has been angling to come back. I start to hyperventilate at the thought.

My son is 6 or 7 years older than is yours. He still has a huge desire to be dependent and to subordinate responsibility. Not control. But responsibility to anybody who will take it.

I agree with every other person who has opined. I would stay out of it completely. Some groceries occasionally. A bike. That is it.

Anything more is fostering dependence and reinforcing it. That is what I think.

Any hope I have that my son will attain this or get this or have that, only sets me up for distress and creates conflict between us. He has to want it, to work for it, and to work to keep it. As long as the want is in me, he lacks all of the motivation to sustain whatever it is.

It creates a power dynamic that gets ugly really quick.

If we have an opportunity to make our lives incredibly better by a move, I would hate it if we denied ourselves, from the desire to watch over or be close to or to assist our adult children. Not now, when they are still trying to consolidate who they are and will be.

With respect to the girl, I would stay far, far away from that. But that is me.
.
I have to accept that my son will live as he wishes. Gradually, I am doing so. Even with his health.

COPA

 

[BusynMember]

i really think he needs to keep his job, prove he will take care of his basic needs aside from you and walk the walk before he gets help. he has had tons of help qnd blown it all. he has to prove he has changed in my opinion or it will just be another repeat performance.
in my opinion girlfriend is her own responsibility. i wouldnt help her under any circumstance. she ibarely knows your son. providing him with hot sex on my dime would not happen. son should be mature enough to understand or he is not changed yet.
jmo. fool me once....i know its hard but this is a rerun of before with no indication of his having matured. good luck im with you regardless of your decision. try to think with your head. the heart holds no logic and then we get burned.

 

[Lil]

Thank you all. As always, this board gives me a lot to think about.

I know I'm going to continue to give him rides home...until he moves closer that is. On Friday, I'm giving him a ride in - at FIVE a.m.! His manager put him opening Thurs, Fri. and Sat., and will give him a ride on Thursday and Saturday, but the manager doesn't open Friday. I told him this is the ONLY time I will do this and he has to tell the manager he can't open unless the manager will give him a ride because he has no way in. Everyone he lives with is still at work at 5. The bike trail he'd have to take to get across the bridge to town (it's illegal to ride on the bridge itself) is not lit and would be a nightmare to find and cross in the dark. So this ONE time, I will do this. I hate mornings.

I've made my phone calls and gotten his information. He must now get the people to let him live there. There are 3 good options. Up to him to make a good impression and, hopefully, get them to overlook his unpaid electric bill (the girlfriend will put the power in her name).

Will I go get the girl?

Probably.

I know, I know, I probably shouldn't. But for the first time I'm seeing a concrete plan. First, he gets a job. Second, the girl gets here and she can stay with him for up to a week where he is. Third, apartment of their own. (2 and 3 are kind of interchangeable, it's just that she can't sign a lease until she gets here.) Fourth, she gets job too (not difficult around here really). They'll have two incomes and the ability to pay for a cheap place, pay bills, buy necessities, do things right.

They have the ability. Whether they do it is on them. But he has actually thought things through in a rather straightforward manner. While I'd like to see him save a couple paychecks - he's correct that between the two of them, they can swing the payment of deposits, etc., with his first and what she's got. Once he's in this town, the rides to work become no problem...there's a lot of hills, but nowhere in this town you can't get by bike and if you work between 7 and 5:30 there are (poorly run) city busses. Food is cheap at Aldi's and Save-A-Lot. Worse case scenario, there are food banks and Salvation Army if they're having problems and he knows where they are. He's not talking about buying new phones or video games - he's talking about food and bills. I'd like to see him actually try. Would I rather he did it alone for a few months? Yes. But maybe having someone depend on HIM instead of the other way around is what he needs...

Much to think on.