continued issues with son

[Mamacat]

But how does one know if and when they do apologize that it's heartfelt and not just words to butter up the banker?

 

[RN0441]

But how does one know if and when they do apologize that it's heartfelt and not just words to butter up the banker?

From what others have said here , you just KNOW when it's real. You know when they've really changed. They stop the bad decisions.

That will be the happiest day of my life!

 

[Mamacat]

Okay I get it . you would definitely see a change in behavior and taking responsibility for her life. That will be a happy day, you're right!!!!

 

[BusynMember]

They mean it when they don't t ask for anything and start caring about others. If a monetary favor request happens right after, it was a manipulation.

 

[Copabanana]

it seems to me that he thinks that all he has to do is say he is sorry and things should just go back to him being back in our good standing

Like the rest of you, our situation is similar. My son of late has been using the phrase "a new leaf." Every. single. time. he does not follow through and wants a do over, to continue his same plan, he proclaims: " a new leaf." M responded: "the problem is that you are not a tree." Which I thought was pretty funny.

And my son continues with the same behavior with us and others that ruined other near lifelong friendships. What he laments is the rupture of the relationship (on his terms) and creates a lot of theater about his moral defects (feigned--this must be.) He does not see a need to change his specific behavior that caused his losses, and repeated rejections, let alone our frustration, mistrust or pain.

This is the hope, over which we have not a bit of control, as explains RE:

He may or may not get to a point where he can actually hear how much his actions harmed others......

I mentioned on another thread that I am speaking with a spiritual director. She is coaching me to try to envision a state of mind where I no longer fight someone, destiny, within myself...You see, like some crusader of long ago, sure in their rightness as they go towards the Holy Land--the very sense of mine that I crusade on the part of what is right, and true--has an aggressiveness about it, for which I pay a huge price. And others too. I am learning to see that to the same extent or more that my son imposes his rules on me, I do so to him-creating war within me and between us.

To the extent that I can learn to discern where I have control and where I do not, I can regain true power.

I think you should send the card. If you want to do it, DO it.

Cedar wrote something to me very wise, when I was so sad after my sister responded negatively to the birthday email I had sent her.

Cedar wrote (I paraphrase here): you sent the email from your own best intentions, with love and hope. She (sister) cannot determine what you do and do not do; what you think and how you feel. She cannot make you do or do not do anything. Your choice. Not hers. (My sister told me to not contact her again.)

Cedar's post, I thought, was very wise and anticipated to an extent what the spiritual counselor seeks to teach me. Where we have control, we can seize it and protect it and never, ever give it away.

But much of what we think we do control, is an illusion, a fantasy. Even within our own minds, over ourselves, and our own life and actions. We have limited control. But Cedar was right: We can intend to do something with heart and feeling and with hope. And with responsibility, and resolve. But we cannot control the result.

A letter to your son about how you feel and what have been the costs to you invites him to an adult relationship, with intimacy and responsibility, but cannot guarantee it.

This whole thing we are dealing with is so, so hard--and feels so, so sad to me. But there is beauty and hope in it--and opening too. This is the part that I am only now learning.

But how does one know if and when they do apologize that it's heartfelt and not just words to butter up the banker?

When I think about it, maybe what we are learning now, each of us, is how to be in relationships of integrity with ourselves.

Maybe we are learning surrender to that which we cannot control, could never control. Maybe detachment, after all, was always a spiritual state, rather than a physical one.

 

[Mamacat]

Thank you copabanana. So much wisdom there. Yes, I'd read that surrender is a spiritual experience. It's not something we can do with our heads or will into being. And it happens when the time is perfect for it to happen. And when it does, ah! What freedom! It doesn't mean there aren't times of sadness, anger and other emotions don't happen. It just means I don't have to do anything about it. I can just feel and know that all is well. Or at least that's how I see it.

 

[Maisy]

Great post Copa! I agree detachment is a state of mind rather than a physical one though both may exist. I find mental detachment to be the toughest to do with our difficult child. I have that deep bond as a parent but know that his behavior is unacceptable and hurting to both of us. Right now my son is still acting like a child and does not want any responsibility. Talks big like he does but does not act it. He has many bad habits and uses his depression and anxiety like a crutch. When January comes, he is going to have much less money because we are cutting back support. Not looking forward to the outcome.

 

[Mamacat]

Reminds me of something else I heard......consider someone's actions rather than their words.

 

[Weary Mother]

So, I got another email from him, says he isnt mad just does not like people who lie to him if they cant do something they should just say so. Well, how many times have i been lied to and blown off? To many to count. And he wants a visit on Thanksgiving. Well, aint that sweeeeet? Gee I can just drop it all and run right off to the prison with $20.00 for the commissary machine thief's. Ha, no. I plan to have a peaceful thanksgiving and do what I want. Then if I can make it on sunday I will go. I don't mean to sound cynical or mean, I do want him to succeed and I am hoping that this is the time it will happen and a light bulb will go off. But until I see that light shining, I guess i will go with caution. But I will go.

 

[BusynMember]

Words of disturbed and angry people are worth less than a penny.

Actions over many years (not just months) are all that signify true desire to do better. Not that months don't matter...just that, while peace is great and hope feels so terrific, change for life can not manifest over a few months. It leads to our disappointment. Devastation easy. How I wished my difficult son would decide to work hard to change when he was in his 20s and had been asked to leave because I was scared of him. And Princess was scared of him and he was seven years older than her.

He never changes. It feels more peaceful now that I accept that this is him. I know it sounds crazy, but it does actually feel better to know that he is this person and won't change. Acceptance. Peace. Understanding that this is in God's hands, if you believe in a higher power (and I strongly do and I feel this also helps me).

Of course...my son isn't in jail. But he will never be happy either as he is. And I'm sad about that, but I did all I could when I could. Now I accept that it is 100% on him, as it is on all of our adult children. How we handle it is individual and also 100% up to us! We can chose to suffer. Or not. Totally our decision.

 

[Copabanana]

Jodie. Let me get out my violin to acknowledge son's pity party. OK. Done.

He got him there. Let him stew in his juices. Let him enjoy his own company and learn what is integrity and commitment and gratitude. Leave you out of it. I would not allow myself to be touched by his negativity, blame, or toxicity. He has to drain his own swamp. Nobody else is responsible.

Until he can learn to treat you with the kindness, consideration, respect and love you deserve--you can love him from a distance. You set the terms here, not him.

Let him flounder and determine just where his power lies. But over you, no. Not at all. Not one bit. Over. Done with. Let the relationship begin again on your own terms. Let him find terms to exert over himself.