Countdown to Job Corps...Will he make it?

[Lil]

Oh @tishthedish...thank you! LOL That actually did make me laugh.

 

[Lil]

Sick of the worry and sick of the excuses and sick of the anger and sick of being sick of HIM. Really, I'm sick of him. I'm sick of his whiney- voice and his defeatist attitude and his constant drama. I'm sick of his depression and his laziness and his weak-minded, weak-willed crap. I'm sick of the thought of my son. What kind of a mother feels that way? I want him to just go away. I want a life WITHOUT HIM. With him nowhere in the equation.

I spent 7 1/2 hours at the office today and have to go again tomorrow. I will probably stay late every day this week that I can in order to be ahead before I have to be off for two weeks. Right now my life sucks but I'm doing what I have to do. THAT'S the example we set his whole life. THAT'S what he can't fathom...being responsible.

In a way I don't blame him. Being responsible sucks. At least I wouldn't blame him if I wasn't so sick of him.

I'm turning my phone off the rest of the night. I'm taking my husband and we're going to eat fattening food (since watching everything that goes in my mouth has resulted in me gaining 3 lbs this week anyway dammit) and drink hard cider and if I could have a cigarette I would right now, but Jabber will probably stop me from doing that.

I'd really, REALLY like to run away...Italy. I love Italy. I want to go to Italy.

 

[AppleCori]

Lil,

He is probably trying to sabotage this opportunity to 'force' you to 'realize' that he can't make it on his own and that you 'must' therefore let him return to the nest and the life he used to have.

It is heartbreaking to watch.

But not surprising.

I hope for your sake that the judge will let him go to Job Corps anyway. The separation may be just what he needs.

 

[Lil]

Some food for the first time since 9am and a drink, and I'm calmer. I'm 100% sure the judge will allow it if he has done some here. 50% sure he will even if he hasn't. Of course, if he goes is up to him.

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[SeekingStrength]

Hugs Lil,

I was/am hoping the Job Corps stint would be just what your son needed and it would/will work out wonderfully.

We do not find this forum because our kids are messing up here and there. We find this wonderful oasis because our kids are making the wrong choices over and over and over and we are desperate.

My 34yo son would most probably have made the same choices your son is making today. It makes me really feel for you. Heck, my son was incarcerated and would not do any community job chores (such as pick up trash along the road) to shorten his time. Double-heck, my son would show up for work thirty minutes late (and would consequently be fired) because he wanted to sit on the sofa, leisurely eat a bowl of cereal and watch tv.

He was alternately lazy, depressed, angry. Spending $$ on counseling never did a bit of good because difficult child would never level with the therapist. Yet, husband and I kept trying and trying. We knew it was our responsibility when he was your son's age- and, sadly, for many years afterwards.

If husband and I had realized then what we know now....

I have so many embarrassing stories. Embarrassing now. At the time, husband and I thought we were helping difficult child, being great parents, standing by our firstborn, who was acting like a total jerk.

Experience is the best teacher - at least, for us parents.

So glad you and Jabber had a nice night.

Three lbs is nothing, by the way. My scales say that all the time.

SS

 

[Jabberwockey]

He is probably trying to sabotage this opportunity to 'force' you to 'realize' that he can't make it on his own and that you 'must' therefore let him return to the nest and the life he used to have.

Simply put...aint gonna happen. Period.

 

[Lil]

Between the metric ton of burger and a couple very large hard ciders and just generally relaxing...I am much better. I could make one of those snicker's commercials. I'm really not myself when I'm hungry. 4:15 p.m., when I hadn't eaten since 9:30, was probably NOT the time for him to start his crapola.

I don't know what to even think about all this. He'll do what he's going to do. He'll go or not. I understand him being worried. I understand him being afraid. But he's right. He really has no good choice other than Job Corps and if you only have one choice you may as well make the best of it.

He has a chance to totally start over. He can reinvent himself. He can get his certification, job placement assistance, and money for an apartment deposit. He can start a whole new life in a whole new town. He can make new friends...maybe some that aren't total losers that only like him when he's doing stuff for them. He can even get basic mental health counseling if he wants.

How is this a bad thing?

But it's up to him.

 

[InsaneCdn]

How is this a bad thing?

I'm NOT saying it's a bad thing. But...

From HIS perspective? Scarier than all get out. What if he fails and is that far away from you? What if he gets beaten up in a strange city? what if... there's a thousand things that can go wrong. And his life history is... things go wrong. So why would he think this is going to be different? His brain is going to be running overtime to try to "pull him back from all that RISK!!!"

So, I do kind of get why he would sabotage the opportunity. NOT in his own best interests, but may not have the maturity to see that.

 

[DoneDad]

He seems like he's doing all he can to sabotage the Job Corps opportunity. You should probably plan for what your going to do when he doesn't go. Sounds like his plan is to make himself seem so pathetic that you'll have to take him back in.

Looks like it will hit the fan soon - he can't go to Job Corps because (insert bs) and he has no place to live and is hungry. He's choosing all this because he's counting on you giving in if he just completely fails. He wants you to rescue him.

As hard as it is, you have to step back, stop fixing and rescuing, and let him experience the consequences of his actions.

He turns his phone off when he doesn't want to hear from you. Turn yours off. Block his number. You've done everything you could and then some and he's not making any effort at all. You need to detach. Figure out some short responses to what he'll say and stick to them.

HIM: Mom, i didn't do my community service and I might get locked up

LIL: That sounds tough. Hope you figure it out. Oh, got another call, gotta go.

HIM: Mom, my friends kicked me out and I don't have a place to stay.

LIL: Gee, that sounds like a problem. Let me know how you work it out. OK, Jabber and I are going to dinner now. Talk to you next Saturday!

 

[pasajes4]

AND NONE OF THIS IS MY FAULT!

Rinse and Repeat

 

[Lil]

What if he fails and is that far away from you?

Then they put him on a plane or a bus home. That's it. No different than he is now except he won't have a job to go to...and he might be able to get his job back if he gives them as much notice as possible.

hat if he gets beaten up in a strange city?

People he hangs around with, I'm surprised he hasn't in the town he's grown up in.

You know, I KNOW it's scary. I know it's a different city with no one he knows. But he went to college, in a different town (small town, but different) with no one he knew. He doesn't even have to leave campus. He's 20 years old, not 10. Why can he not see this as an adventure?

Worse case scenario, he hates it. He gets sent home for free. He's still homeless. Best case, he gets a good job and a new life.

And his life history is... things go wrong.

Things go wrong because he's an idiot. You don't just sit around doing nothing and expect life to treat you right. You can't not work and still have money. You can't hang around with irresponsible criminals and druggies and have them be responsible when you need them.

Why the heck can he not see this?

Sounds like his plan is to make himself seem so pathetic that you'll have to take him back in.

Well that's not going to happen.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Why the heck can he not see this?

Depends on why he is the way he is.

I know I'm a bit of a contrarian on this site sometimes - I've seen the other side (me, my bro, my kids...) Why has he gotten to this point in life, and you don't know what makes him tick? It's an interesting question. Why can't he see "this"? How many reasons do you want? There will be that many.

Here's my theory... he isn't a neurotypical kid. He doesn't think like you think, doesn't feel like you feel, doesn't see or hear what you see or hear... but DOES see, hear, think and feel. Just differently. He's out of step with the world around him - and has been all of his life. He can kind of sort of hold it together sometimes - he managed to get some sort of education. But the people he attracts are exactly the kind of people who take advantage of someone "out of step". He isn't attracted to, nor attracted by, neurotypical people.

IF that is the case - then Job Corp is going to fail epically. The transition will be too huge. And somehow he knows that going in. HIS alarm bells are going off. No, they don't go off when yours do - so, he gets himself into all sorts of trouble. Trouble that he "should" see coming... IF he were neurotypical. He's never figured out how to navigate the neurotypical world. Some differently wired folks somehow figure it out - others need help.

The trouble is: there is VERY LITTLE help of any sort for these undiagnosed conundrum kids. They "should", "could", "need to"... bla bla bla except... they CANNOT. Not "will not" but CANNOT. They haven't been given the skills to handle any of this.

Which means there is no easy answer, and maybe no answer at all. But the first question is: WHY is he the way he is?

 

[wakeupcall]

I could take this entire dramatic tale and insert my DCs name, only ex (who Difficult Child lives with) is doing all you are doing. Difficult Child is so entitled, thinks none of his trouble is his fault, thinks his father will always bail him out....oh yea, and he does. He graduated HS one year ago. Since then he has trashed the new truck I bought him, been arrested four times, won't do community service, doesn't show up at probation meeting, has had three jobs that each lasted about three weeks. The truck was a bribe to finish high school and he did, so I was true to my word. Since then, I've been ALL DONE! I did NOT raise him to behave like a druggie, a slug, a....! He has totally disgusted me and embarrassed me. Me, his mother who loves him more than life itself. Each day I pray he will grow up. His father just took the truck and traded it in on a Jeep. Difficult Child is thrilled and smiling like a clown. Grrrr. What on this earth is his father thinking??

Be strong Lil and Jabber....

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I'm sick of his whiney- voice and his defeatist attitude and his constant drama. I'm sick of his depression and his laziness and his weak-minded, weak-willed crap. I'm sick of the thought of my son. What kind of a mother feels that way? I want him to just go away. I want a life WITHOUT HIM. With him nowhere in the equation.

A mother who is raising a strong, ethical man kind of son.

Pirate skirt time, Lil.

There is strength in thinking like you are thinking now. It doesn't mean you don't love him. It means you do.

In a way I don't blame him. Being responsible sucks. At least I wouldn't blame him if I wasn't so sick of him.

He is developing integrity.

The lessons will get harder. For him, not you. You are doing what you can to teach your child how to live a life.

We do not find this forum because our kids are messing up here and there. We find this wonderful oasis because our kids are making the wrong choices over and over and over and we are desperate.

Yes.

he can't go to Job Corps because (insert bs)

Yep.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

From HIS perspective? Scarier than all get out. What if he fails and is that far away from you? What if he gets beaten up in a strange city? what if... there's a thousand things that can go wrong. And his life history is... things go wrong. So why would he think this is going to be different? His brain is going to be running overtime to try to "pull him back from all that RISK!!!"

IC, I feel this is age inappropriate thinking. Men and women his age fight in the military. They go away to college (heck, most can't WAIT to be independent). And they are all a little scared of the unknown, but they want to try it. Most twenty year olds don't want mom to be right there in their lives all the time.

He's not afraid to drive and every time he does, it is possible he will get into an accident. Every time you go outside, you could get shot by a crazed killer. But we can't live that way.

Lil, I think your son unfortunately has the mindset of a boy. "Mom will fix it." What a victory for both of you if he can let go and just do it. He's not training for the battlefield or even going to college, which can require very hard work. He is going to help launch his life.
I know you are frustrated. If he gives up this chance, your job of mother is over and he can make his own decisions about what to do. You'll have no choice. Maybe giving Jabber the texts when he tries to contact you may calm you down. He knows what go say and is less prone to the bs. The more you are there for him when he goes in "little boy" mode, the more he will depend on you to wipe his nose, so to speak. Start to detach by having his father read and answer his texts, even if they come on your phone. Choose peace. Sounds like he is driving you crazy.

 

[Lil]

Depends on why he is the way he is.

I know I'm a bit of a contrarian on this site sometimes - I've seen the other side (me, my bro, my kids...) Why has he gotten to this point in life, and you don't know what makes him tick? It's an interesting question. Why can't he see "this"? How many reasons do you want? There will be that many.

Here's my theory... he isn't a neurotypical kid. He doesn't think like you think, doesn't feel like you feel, doesn't see or hear what you see or hear... but DOES see, hear, think and feel. Just differently. He's out of step with the world around him - and has been all of his life. He can kind of sort of hold it together sometimes - he managed to get some sort of education. But the people he attracts are exactly the kind of people who take advantage of someone "out of step". He isn't attracted to, nor attracted by, neurotypical people.

IF that is the case - then Job Corp is going to fail epically. The transition will be too huge. And somehow he knows that going in. HIS alarm bells are going off. No, they don't go off when yours do - so, he gets himself into all sorts of trouble. Trouble that he "should" see coming... IF he were neurotypical. He's never figured out how to navigate the neurotypical world. Some differently wired folks somehow figure it out - others need help.

The trouble is: there is VERY LITTLE help of any sort for these undiagnosed conundrum kids. They "should", "could", "need to"... bla bla bla except... they CANNOT. Not "will not" but CANNOT. They haven't been given the skills to handle any of this.

Which means there is no easy answer, and maybe no answer at all. But the first question is: WHY is he the way he is?

Fact is, more and more every day I think this is what it is. I think he has something "not typical" going on. Aspergers? Maybe. He ticks most of the boxes.

But he can't come home. So what does that leave?

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, he can get tested by a neuropsychologist and find out if he is eligible for services.

ASpies are high functioning and can learn to make friends, even if it is hard for them. I've been in a group (I love groups) of parents with autistic spectrum kids and they mostly work. Very few drive. Many needed job coaches at work first. There are things only your son can do even if he has Aspergers. One is to get himself diagnosed. Another is to accept services.

My son, who is not as high functioing as an Aspie, has a job, friends, and he lives alone and does not get into trouble. Aspies have a choice on how they behave too. The first step is for him to get a comprehensive evaluation. A talk with a therapist or even a psychiatrist won't tell him much. He needs to find out his strengths and deficits and have the neuropsychologist send it to Disability.

Many Aspies work, have wives and kids and are highly motivated. Sonic is a very hard worker and always has been which is why he is doing as well as he is.

 

[Lil]

But he WON'T go. And even if he would, he is the sort of person who would simply blame everything on it. He wouldn't learn to function with it. It would become an excuse. "I can't hold.a job because I have aspergers.". "Someone needs to take care of me because somethings wrong with me.". That's his way if thinking. It's kind of no-win.

I know I sound as defeatist as he does, but I know how he'd react. I don't know how to get thru to him.

Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Lil]

By he won't go, I mean he won't even go to counseling. A full workup and diagnosis? No way. If he were cooperative, maybe. But he's not.

Which is why I don't know what to do.

He didn't even call our church property manager to apologize for standing him up after telling me he would. He's apparently rude too.

I think he's terrified to be truthful, but I have no ideas. If he doesn't go and can't come home, can't stay where he is, has no friends or family, can't go to the shelter, what dies he do?

Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[InsaneCdn]

IC, I feel this is age inappropriate thinking

Physical age inappropriate, yes.
Developmental age inappropriate? probably not.

My now-adult conundrum kid isn't in the same shoes as Lil and Jabber's boy. Not on drugs, actually holding down a job. But other than that? He's closer to 14 than adult in most of his thinking, and it would be totally inappropriate for us to expect him at this point to do otherwise. Our kid IS moving forward, just much slower than most people would expect.

My kid was to the "won't go" point at about age 14. Its been a long road. Then we ran a book that HE connected with... and HE wanted to pursue testing. The diagnosis made him LESS "lazy", not more. It was less of an excuse, not more. There was a real reason why he thought and felt as he does. We've since found out there are more dxes that apply to him - and each time we get another piece of the puzzle, he moves forward. He is getting help (now that we have adult services - child and youth services were a joke).