Cutting ties...


Shooting from the Hip
Bill and I have been talking lately and he is DONE - seriously done - with his family and their behavior. As soon as the family farm is sold, he is cutting remaining ties - with all but one person. I strongly agree. This might be long. I need to vent.

mother in law and father in law are manipulative narcissists, and we've cut ties with them as much as possible. We don't talk, visit, or anything. mother in law is only in contact due to the family farm.

mother in law made a big deal out of formally adopting her stepson, who is in his forties, never married, childless. She did not marry his father until Bill and sister in law were out on their own, so stepbrother was not a big deal. He's easily manipulated... And then she made another HUGE deal of cutting Bill out of her will in favor of SS. Oh well... Don't really want anything of hers.

father in law has constantly made a deal out of how much of a failure Bill is, and how if Bill would just listen to HIM everything would be perfect. The few times Bill did... It was a DISASTER.

Bill's paternal cousins - are RABID feminists. Bill is not. Now, there is NOTHING wrong with feminism, but when I started getting nasty messages from one of the cousins' daughters at midnight, accusing me of all sorts of nasty things... Well, she couldn't message Bill, because he had her blocked. Basically he dared to disagree with them. So, no big loss. I recently unfriended the few that I still had on facebook, since they were locked down and couldn't see my posts anyway, and I'd unfollowed them.

sister in law - is Daddy's Girl - seriously. She lives in a house that she and father in law bought together. Don't ever dare to say anything bad about father in law or those paternal cousins! We have suspicions that she has been telling tales to Pat as well. What, we don't know... He's been living with her for nearly 2 years.

Niece - sister in law's oldest - ADORED Rose, and it was mutual. Sometime in the last year, niece unfriended me on facebook, and I only noticed when I went to tell her Happy Birthday and - well. I figured it was no big deal and messaged her, never heard back. Oh well. She was at nephew & his fiancee's baby shower a couple weeks ago. Niece shot me some dirty looks - I've no clue why, but whatever. Rose saw her and went FLYING ove... To be rudely rebuffed and pushed away. Niece looked at me and shook her head at me and flipped me off. Rose did not understand why her cousin didn't want to see her. Niece's two sons had clearly also been told not to speak to us. AWKWARD. I did not make a scene and managed to calm Rose down. Maybe I should have said something. But it was someone else's day, so... Anyway, I'm completely done with her, too. I don't know what her problem is, but her behavior stinks. This is only one example... So you don't get the whole picture... But it's typical. (According to her, Bill ruined a birthday for her because he refused to play nice with father in law... Never mind father in law's behavior.)

Nephew, on the other hand, was happy as he could be to hug Rose (he has always been her favorite cousin) and she sat on his lap part of the time they were opening gifts. (LOL this was funny, all the kids wanted a turn with him and his fiancee. So he rotated about 8 kids, 2 presents each...) FWIW, he is also pretty disgusted with most of the family, but keeps the peace by nodding and smiling a lot.

(Interestingly, niece and nephew's paternal grandmother - so no relation to us - was quite nice to me and Rose... Weird.)

I'm sure y'all remember all the garbage with Pat and Belle, so I won't go into that here.

So, basically, out of that whole mess of people, nephew and his fiancee are the only two I can stand - and same goes for Bill. He's gone so far as to suggest we change our last name and move away... OK, so we're already looking at moving, because the cold hurts, but I'm amused at the other. Though I seriously understand!

Some people might wonder if it is Bill that is the problem, but I really don't think so. My parents adore him. My friends adore him. He has friends that are completely unlike him in many ways. I just think the toxic environment poisoned them all, and if he hadn't joined the Marines... He'd be just like them.


Well-Known Member
Bill may be the family scapegoat. Read my calmer vent in the Water cooler. My story is similar only less people in my family thankfully. I was disinherited too. It hurt but did not make us destitute.. it was more hurtful emotionally but I knew it would happen. It still hurt but I am fine now.

That kind of drama, constant abuse and never knowing how people will treat you next are in my opinion not worth your time. It's not healthy. Rose doesn't need to see that the family interacts in such a hateful way.

I personally see nothing wrong with waving good bye for as long as you have to. It might be forever.

The one thing I am finding is that, although some in the pack may be very nice, it is hard to maintain contact with a few and not others. Somehow everyone seems connected and to me it is not a comfortable place to be. But you guys may be able to do it. We are all different.

Love and light.


Well-Known Member
With respect to my own life, why I have kept trying (or caring) so long with family who do not love me or treat me in any way consistent with love?

I believe we owe ourselves love and care. And if this means protecting ourselves from hurt by removing ourselves completely, so be it.

My SO's brother changed his name completely. His son omits his paternal name in favor of the maternal. (In Mexico they use typically two names. The maternal. And paternal.)

If the shoe fits, put it in. We are remiss to not act on the reality of our lives. I think.
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Shooting from the Hip
Bill may be the family scapegoat.
THIS. This is what it is! They ALL, always demanded he do for them, but if he asked a favor, they were always busy. If he said NO to them, he was an *******. (Asterisks mine, put in what you wish.) And being separated from this toxic environment is a great thing.

The one thing I am finding is that, although some in the pack may be very nice, it is hard to maintain contact with a few and not others. Somehow everyone seems connected and to me it is not a comfortable place to be. But you guys may be able to do it. We are all different.
I kind of doubt we will be able to. Nephew is a flake, even if he's the best of a bad lot. I think the connection is going to fade over time.

My SO's brother changed his name completely. His son omits his paternal name in favor of the maternal. (In Mexico the use typically two names. The maternal. And paternal.)
I remember this from my time in El Paso... Bill has considered looking at my maiden name as a new one. It's Greek. The only thing is... If we change our last name... What do we do about Rose? Can we change hers, too? Or not? Hmm. Not really a huge deal, just musing.


Well-Known Member
Hi. I have frequently thought of taking my maternal grandparent's name. And I am old! As far as Rose, who of us ever chooses their name as a child? Actually I read that the famous textile designer Kaffe Fassett, when he was like 8, changed his name from Frank. And now he is world famous.

I think Bill gets to do what he wants.

This is exciting.
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Well-Known Member
And who cares what "some people think about Bill?"

Actually. I worry whether if it is all my fault. But maybe that is what happens to scapegoats.


Well-Known Member
Scapegoats can never do anything right and if they try to explain their point of view or if they try to explain something that is wrongfully being tossed around about you to the other family vultures, nobody listens. Scapegoats can't win discussions with the windbags so why try? I tried too long and never once did it work even a little. Nobody cares what the scapegoat feels, thinks, or cares about or if the scapegoat is hurt by them. It's too bad for the there is no point at all in trying to talk about anything to your dysfunctional FOO if you are the scapegoat. I wish I had walked away. Not one of them, except my grandma and my father ever cared if I shed a tear. A one sided love can not work.

Nobody else. Nobody. Nada.

If I were a man I would have picked my own last name and legally changed it. I tell businesses, like credit card companies, that my mother's maiden name is the last name of my first husband. I never use that loathed maiden name my mother had. It reminds me of her and my Uncle who called me "the brat" when I was very young. Yes, my mother let him call me that.

I threw out my family photo albums. That was symbalic. I have many pictures of my father with MY family and kept a few of my grandma with me as a little girl. The rest were burned with the trash long ago.

I feel no sadness over this. They are not my family. I do think things change in the spirit world, after we pass on snd i totally believe in the spirit world, but nothing can change here. I need to focus on my loved ones and true family. Bill can do the same.

Copa, I so hope the hurt is over for you...I am well aware you suffered too. We are many. Since my dad passed I have been thinking about my FOO again, but now it is that I can finally be free of them and talk about them here, the only place I do, without worrying that my sister will upset my father, who knew nothing about the internet, by telling him that I am spilling family secrets. And showing him pages that he doesnt understand. Never ever have I given identities away and nobody here knows who I am discussing. I do not talk about FOO to people who know her as she does about me (not that I care what her friends think).

I am free.

Love and light.
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Shooting from the Hip
As far as Rose, who of us ever chooses their name as a child?
Actually, what I was thinking was legalities... But if we so choose, it will come.

Interestingly, I had no intention of ever changing my last name again. However, when I found out how much it bothered Bill that the older kids' bio mom didn't (she hyphenated)... I decided it was not worth it. I didn't care, then. Still don't, now - I am me, no matter what I am called.

SWOT, and Copa - I have been thinknig of you both. FOO's can be... A royal PAIN. I wish it were otherwise.


Long road but the path ahead holds hope.
After the recent death of my father and mother, I have cut ties with all of the toxic people in my family. I only have a close relationship with one sister.
It is a huge weight of stress removed from my life.
Do what makes you happy this life is far too short b


Well-Known Member
I had a distant relationship with my sister who no longer wants me even to send her an email on her birthday. As an attorney she sent me a cease and desist notice! My relationship with my mother was distant for many years but in her final 25 years we recouped.

I am still guilt ridden about all of my familial relationships that were not in the storybook mode. Which is to say, all of them. Because I was the common denominator in all of them, I hold myself responsible.

I wish I had tried harder and done more.


Well-Known Member did make it right with your mother, who let you. You can not always make it right no matter WHAT you do. Take it from me. I took it on the chin hard and tried as hard as I could with both my Mother and my sister. All the hard work led to being kissed off from the grave by my mom ( who never considered my kids her grands and didn't meet the younger too) and repeated cut offs and police calls on my me by my sister.Remember, I did not break the law. Then she would decide when SHE missed me enough to contact ME again and I loved her so I allowed it. I loved her that much. Not until she said something that suddenly made me see how little my feelings and that of my family meant to her did I finally end the cycle. I am.64. Slow learner much? Remember, we spoke of all these things the first time we did our FOO threads! It is NOT you. You could have done nothing, other than agreed to anything your sister did or said, to shakily make it work. Wouldn't that have included trying to harm your mother when she was so.sick? Not everyone wins the FOO lottery. Even my sister knows how awful we were treated in childhood. Beyond that she chose to listen only to my mother....about me, about my father. I was at fault always as was my father. I saw more than her as the oldest. My mother was plenty at fault too. She was a huge agitator and had help from my grandmother. There is only one side if you won't hear the other and then realize that there are two sides to every story. Hey, my sister has her own reality of me and her (shug).

To me beyond thecops and cut offs, she would not let me talk about my pain with our mother. But she had listened to my mother. And I spent hours and years listening to HER pain about her abusive boyfriend. It was not recipricated. Perhaps she would say "she was my MOTHER so I didn't want to hear it." Well, I was her sister and she listened to crap about me. And she drew her own conclusions. Yet she wouldn't go away. Should I have kept allowing the cut offs, cops and lack of listening to me?

Copa, please don't feel guilty. I don't. You know you tried and needed to protect your mother from your sister when.she was ill and Sis was sniffing around for money and power. You DID do your best.

Our best isn't always enough with certain people in FOO. Every single person here knows how deeply you can love....the love you have for M and your son crackles off the pages.

Please remember that it takes two to make a relationship work. I am at fault somewhat in my relationships, but I didn't used cut offs and cops when I was angry. In the end, I can't risk that anymore. You can't risk your sisters wrath either. She did you a favor. Although it is a terrifying thought to have a disturbed sister who is also an attorney!!! Copa, how that must have hurt!

Much love and light.
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Well-Known Member
Thank you swot for your kind, wise and loving post. Will write more later.

I want to right now make these couple comments. Am seeing a new therapist with a far different m.o. it is about energy and movement, not words. But she said this about my mom.

Nothing you ever did or could have done
would have been enough to her..

She was referring to her care. But really it was with everything.

What this meant to me is that I would have always been the fall guy to myself. Blaming myself that I did not do enough. Or did not do it well enough. Or was not enough. Like a version of the scapegoat but internalized. As long as I keep accepting this it will be self fulfiing. It as if I am a function, a verb, not a person. Like a shock absorber on a car.

Which as you describe your sister was (is) the same for you. There is no other thing to be done except to stop and say no. I am no longer a shock absorber. I am a human being.

Because there is no way to negotiate the role of a thing, a shock absorber.

New. Used. Broken . Repaired. As long as we negotiate from "shock absorber" we are less than human. And they will not accept us as fully human. With voice. Feelings. Integrity. Personhood.

I think that is why our relationships with our sisters can never ever work. To be in relationship is to be a thing to them. To this, you said no more.

Thank you swot.
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Well-Known Member
Darn. I wish I had thought of taking my mother’s maiden name much earlier in my life.
Now I have my husband’s last name. He is wonderful and I’m fine with that.
I parted ways with my father as an adult.
It was difficult at first.But, there is no doubt it was for the best. He was physically and verbally abusive to me. Not an ounce of remorse. Big time narcissist as well.
When he became elderly, I started calling him yearly to see if he needed anything.
When he was on his death bed , I did help out in the final days.
Like a forlorn child, I hoped for an apology.
None was to be had and he died.
It shook me up for awhile....he was more messed up than I even thought.
I did not mourn him as much as my horrible childhood with this messed up man. I did not have siblings. Probably for the best. I was a goody two shoes straight A student and he thought of me as a burden. Good grief!