Hurts so much

Ithurtz

New Member
Haven't been on for a while, except for reading over and over the threads about our adult children. Since November my son has been in short detoxes 3 times, and 1 short jail stint for fighting with his mother over a bottle of vodka. I have spoken to him a few times, listening to him while he slurs words being drunk. Each time he came out of detoxes, he phoned all pumped up that he knows what he has to do, but within days he's drinking again. He laments about being a loser ( compared to his siblings and cousins), that he's worthless, that it's everyone else's fault, etc.

His mother is also a drinker and he living with her does nothing to help. I cannot take him in and she is going to move, leaving him without a place, so he will be homeless. His car broke down in last October and he hasn't looked for a job since. My insides are grinding apart, awaiting to see how this will play out. He has never been homeless and I don't believe he can function.

I am using the 'one day at a time' and 'Let go and Let God' hourly. This is just so stressful and am so glad there is such a forum to vent, and to know that I am not alone in this situation.

A
 

Crayola14

Member
I wonder what is compelling him to go back to drinking and smoking pot after he stops using it for a few days. When he’s in detox or the psychiatric hospital, he leaves with a clear head, knowing what he needs to do, etc. There must be a stressor that makes him start drinking and smoking pot again. If he can figure out what causes the relapse, whether it’s depression, loneliness, fear of failure, etc., his therapist can help him learn how to work through those stressors or unpleasant emotions. I hope he continues therapy. He’s against medication, but he really needs naltrexone. I’m sure the therapist mentioned that.
 

Ithurtz

New Member
Thanks for answering. Let’s me vent more. He has actually quit smoking M last fall and basically gulping down straight vodka.

It is a lot of depression and lamenting his upbringing, blaming parents a lot. He cannot let go of the past no matter what therapists, psychiatrists, parents and family tell him. He gets admitted using suicide ideation. He is given medicines and therapy, gets out and says I know what I need to do. Then after a few days of inability for find a job that pays $50K and WFH, he gets disgusted and starts drinking again.

He sees his siblings and cousins all successful. They all have completed college with careers in mind. While he was in college, he smoke M constantly, arrested twice on campus for it, and dropped out after 3rd year having 43 credits. Three years one should have 90 credits. So the $60k I paid for his college was for what.

Then he returned home to live with his mother and figured out that delivery and Uber jobs don’t require drug screening. And he could set and work when he wanted. Continued with M and alcohol over the years interspersed with 2 inpatient rehabs and a DUI. He did have a couple stretches of 2 years without a problem, got his own rental, and worked at delivery. I at two different times got him jobs, one which he quit in one day and the other required a drug screen which he wouldn’t take.

So now he just got out of detox and I’m waiting to hear from him. His car is broke down so he can’t get around and his mothers on the verge of kicking him out and/or moving, so soon he will not have a place. It the past 13 years besides the $60k for college, I’ve gone through another $20k between cars, car repairs, lawyers, and miscellaneous things.

I’m in my 70s and this Is dragging me down again. I don’t want to spend any more of my retirement on his recovery if he cannot shake the past and instead follow the regiments he has been advised.

I want to help him and said show me some signs that you want to move forward.

A
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
she is going to move, leaving him without a place, so he will be homeless.
Won't this be better, that he has to find another place if she drinks? Your son is not homeless yet. There are places he can live, if he takes, action. He very well may step up.

My son has been homeless many years. He uses marijuana. I've tried everything, including buying a house for him. Not one thing that I do has helped. Only our adult children can help themselves.
It the past 13 years besides the $60k for college, I’ve gone through another $20k between cars, car repairs, lawyers, and miscellaneous things.
Stop throwing money at him. Please. It does not help anything, from my experience.
show me some signs that you want to move forward.
I am sorry but I would want to see actual progress, not signs. He doesn't need more money or expensive treatment. There are AA and NA. When people want to stop using, 12-step groups are good.

We parents are in recovery, too. It is very difficult to accept that our children are on their own paths when they're self-destructive or living without dignity or purpose. But acceptance is the only thing that works. The rest is fantasy.

The thing is our children must experience the consequences of their choices to decide to make different ones. Many of us suffered as children due to parental choices or parental inadequacy. Your child needs to get to the point of accepting that he is the one who is making himself suffer. And that he can change that.

It is okay for you to be okay. I think this is the work we have to do. To be able to accept that our adult children are separate people who are responsible for themselves. It is not only our children who need to wake up and smell the coffee. We do too. We have the capacity to live well, even when they don't. And living well means without constant worry, fear, angst, and guilt.

Sometimes the Serenity Prayer is the only thing that gets us through. You're not alone.
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Ithurtz,
I was having a stoic moment this morning. My dad was a big believer in “It is what it is” and I admittedly vacillate between the emotional rollercoaster of having two adult daughters on the streets and the hard reality that their choices are completely out of my control.
I know I need to process the emotions and let it out, otherwise it just festers inside. It is a sad thing when our adult children just can’t get their act together.
And it is just that- their act. No matter what script I could fantasize about them, they will do what they want. They will write their own script.
So I have to process, then I have to step back from the emotional part of it and think with my head and not my heart.
That’s not easy, but it is imperative for me to be able to live my life.
There is a contemporary Hawaiian song that plays in my head “Brothers’ got a problem and it’s deep as a wishing well, and no one else can help him but himself…..”
Deep breath.
Step away from the emotion.
Reality.
I can list many instances where late hubs and I tried to “help” our two. The reality was, they did not want help to change, to stop the craziness, to rewrite the script and clean up their act.
They wanted a free ride, so they could continue as is, on our dime, our time, our heartache.
We were unwitting actors in their play.
Boy did they play us. They knew just how to tug at our heartstrings and we bounced around like marionettes. The bouncing continued even after I put my foot down and said no more. I was still emotionally tied to their choices, their consequences, their what ifs. Still
am at times.
Insert macabre circus music.
My monkeys, not my circus.
How the heck do we get off the crazy not so merry go round?
How many years spent, how many tears shed, do we realize that sacrificing ourselves will not change our adult children’s choices?
How do we help someone who will not help themselves?
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Addition to above reply, which I was trying to edit, but took too long………

How many years spent, how many tears shed, do we realize that sacrificing ourselves will not change our adult children’s choices?
Sorry, I’m writing about stepping back from emotions and being pretty dramatic at the same time.
But truly….bodes the question…..
How do we help someone who will not help themselves?
The last encounter with my daughter- she went through rehab- made it to sober living- all the while spouting off 12 step- isms and Bible verses. I broke my rule and allowed her to stay a few days at my home. Only to find out she had hooked up with a guy at rehab (against the rules) they both ditched their court ordered programs and ran off together. She threw away her sobriety, her kids, her family, for a guy she barely knew. A month later- he’s back in jail, and she is on the run.
I have left sad on the floor and I’m just mad now.
But that’s emotion talking.
I’m going to be 65. How many more years do I need to stress over my two? I have no control over what they do with their lives.
I’m not writing them off. I’m writing myself out of their play. I don’t like the genre, can’t change the script, can’t trust what they tell me, the list goes on.
Do you remember the old daytime soap operas? There is one that stands out in my mind as I’m writing this.
“One Life to Live.”
That’s all we have.
My husband passed after bouts of illness during the rise of my twos addiction and downhill consequences.
You would think that seeing their dad ill and hospitalized off and on for three years would have been a wake up call. It wasn’t. You would think that his passing would have moved them to do better. It didn’t.
This month it’s been eight years.
One life to live is all we have.
I’m going to keep working my hardest to live my life as best as I can.
I hope you do too, and everyone else following along.
(((Hugs)))
New Leaf
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Oh boy, I have to apologize for hijacking your thread. I’m spouting about removing the emotions from the reality of our kids choices and trying to be stoic, then go into a rant and post a sad song in lyrics and melody.
I guess it just goes to show the complexity of the journey we are on and how our own life challenges intertwine with facing this harsh reality of our adult children’s choices.
My apologies, Ithurtz annd everyone. April is a tough month for me.
 

ANewLife4Me

Active Member
We parents are in recovery, too. It is very difficult to accept that our children are on their own paths when they're self-destructive or living without dignity or purpose. But acceptance is the only thing that works. The rest is fantasy.
Oh isn’t this the truth! 😔 I liken it to 2 steps forward, 3 back. When on my better days, full of strength and I got this attitude but then, next day or week/month, always that crash.

Hello Ithurtz, I hope the wonderful advice from all will help you in the days ahead. Be strong and as Copa mentioned…you need to see real progress that he wants to change. Not just a few days and promises that this will be it if you could only give me????? We are enablers and it takes a lot to admit that but once we do we need to take steps and stop doing it. It’s going to hurt, he may say the very worst things to you and try to manipulate your sensitive heart. Direct him to AA or NA instead of handing out those $$$$

I encourage you to read the experiences also of parents like Copa who bought their children homes, bought them cars as you have, spent their whole life savings on these children who hold their hands out for even more still. Anything WE do will not help as it’s up to them to want that change. 🤗
 

MandaC

New Member
Thank you all for the comments, support, and advice. I am so on edge for another surprise phone or text from him about some crisis. I told him I will not respond to any between 4 pm and 9 am as an initial boundary.

After reading so many of the threads, I am beginning to think he has the Marijuana Psychosis syndrome. He says he needs it to stay calm. But he has become so delusional, continuing to say how he is working on secret missions, going through special training, protecting embassy people. Just crazy nonsense. I have read that ceasing the Marijuana use then let’s the psychosis diminishes and the delusions go away. Does anyone on these forums has experience with this? I would love to hear about their experiences.

I need to explicitly let him know all my boundaries but getting through to him in his mental state, he doesn’t seem to listen or even care what I say. He calls me a useless parent.

A.
Hi there. Sorry you are going through all this. It is hell on earth. I too am trying to detach my 23 year old son at the moment AGAIN and it is the hardest most depressing thing ever. You might be better than me at navigating this sight and be able to find my past posts and replys to give you an idea of my back story. But with regards to the weed induced pychosis... my son smoked weed heavily for around 4 years . He didnt show any signs of psychosis whilst smoking it although there were obvious signs of paranoia and anxiety. I dont know how many times , whilst stoned he demanded i call an ambulance for him because he was convinced he was having a heart attack but it would turn out to be anxiety, heart racing etc. But with him, when he did eventually listen to me and agree to stop smoking it, it was 3/4 days after he stopped that the psychosis began. I managed to have him sectioned under the mental health act here in Scotland and although they did abdolutely nothing for him , partly perhaps because he was uncompliant to treatment , he did recieve a diagnosis of drug induced psychosis. That was mabey around 2 years ago. He remains uncompliant to treatment , infact refuses treatment altogether. I know for a fact that he hasnt smoked weed since but he is most definately still has psychosis. His latest strange behaviour is buying himself a pendulum and wants to hypnotise everyone, including me, turning up at friends doors, friends he has not seen for years and asking to hypnotise them. So, in his case, the psychosis hasnt gone away. He definately needs anti psychotic medication. But i also know that with some people, the psychosis does gradually go away when they stop smoking it. My son though has substituted the weed with alcohol which definately doesnt help.
 

Ithurtz

New Member
Contributors, thank all of you for responding and re-assuring that I am trying to handle this with detachment. Since I have joined last fall, I find solace in reading and re-reading these postings. It does help. Copa and New Leaf have been so spot-on with the emotions we go through and what should be our responses. New Leaf, you did not hijack this, worry not. Not that I don't sympathize for your situation, but I love your writings and read them so thoroughly. Copa drives the bullet points home of what we parents need to do.

But we do second guess ourselves over and over.

He has really not taken any action on anything for the past 4 months. When I had the session with my therapist last week, she indicated that some addicted people regress into behavior similar to a toddler, that they want to be cared for and taken care off. She says he seems to acting like that. I think that is what destresses me the most, that he will not do anything about his situation.

He left me a text yesterday that he has not had a drink in 7 days. Awaiting any more updates.

A
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
He left me a text yesterday that he has not had a drink in 7 days. Awaiting any more updates.
OK. This is good, to a point. No drinking is good. But what is your son looking to you for?

This is the thing: the updates you need are from you, not him. He needs to come to live for himself, his own well-being. Not how it affects you. This is the cord that has to be broken. Love is not contingent (or should not be) on actions. Love is not instrumental. Love is not tit for tat. Love is not bartered. Love is not you do this for me, because I did this.

I want to underscore this: One of the things we do is live based on how our children are doing. WRONG. We need to locate our well-being in ourselves.
 

Ithurtz

New Member
As usual Copa, you hit the nail on the head. I love my son, and seeing him degrade tears into me. I still think he feels he's been deal a bad deal in life and somehow wants me to pay for that. I'll write more later, must head out to part-time job.

A
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I still think he feels he's been deal a bad deal in life and somehow wants me to pay for that.
One of the things that adults need to do is to play the hand they were dealt. It is too late for any of us to get a new deal. We can't turn in our cards and insist on another try. We can't intimidate our fellow players to trade their cards for ours. This is what comes with maturity. The acceptance of reality and of responsibility.

The problem comes when we as parents buy-in--by feeling guilty. This is very common in divorce. Parents feel guilty for the effects on their children. Wrong.

There is no life without thorns, without pain. This we all know. It's just real, real hard when it's us and our kids. My son is mentally ill. I mean, seriously mentally ill. He is paranoid and delusional. My son had every single bad break an infant could have gotten before I adopted him. Maybe I could have been a better mother. Surely I could have been. But I did the very best I could. The very best that I knew. But I had limitations. My situation, our situation, presented limitations. So did yours. Guilt doesn't help. Responsibility helps.

Our responsibility now is far different then it was when they were little. Our responsibility now is to get out of the way.. And let them with their own resources to do the work of maturing and healing. Of taking responsibility to play our their lives, their cards, in the best way that they can. What i am saying here, is to try your hardest to not succumb to your son's extortion or blackmail. Why? Because it hurts him if you do.

Your son got a good deal. He got you as a father. You love him. You care deeply. Do you know how few dads ever came to this forum since I've been here? In 9 years i can count them on one hand.
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Ithurtz,
Thank you for your kindness.
When I had the session with my therapist last week, she indicated that some addicted people regress into behavior similar to a toddler, that they want to be cared for and taken care off. She says he seems to acting like that. I think that is what destresses me the most, that he will not do anything about his situation.
“Behavior similar to a toddler.” They want their cake and eat it too. But they are not toddlers, they are adults. We wont be around forever to pick up the crumbs.
My two are the same, they won’t do anything about their situations. They don’t want to. I can’t for the life of me imagine living as they do, but that’s me, not them. For whatever reason, they have chosen living on the streets, in parks, under bridges, over conventional living. I don’t like it, but have no control over what they choose. While fretting and worrying over them, they settled into a vagabond lifestyle without a care. I hope that your son chooses differently, but if he doesn’t, that is his choice. No amount of stress on your part will change that.
I still think he feels he's been dealt a bad deal in life and somehow wants me to pay for that.
There was a point on this journey where my two would say outright “I am this way because of you.” I realized after some time that what mattered was if I believed that, if I fed into that rhetoric with my own reaction and response, they doubled down on trying to guilt trip me. They were trying to pass the consequences of their choices over to me. It’s far easier to blame others, than to take an honest look in the mirror. In a moment of clarity during rehab, Tornado said “Mom, what Rain and I have gone through is not your fault.” Huh.
Our responsibility now is far different then it was when they were little. Our responsibility now is to get out of the way.. And let them with their own resources to do the work of maturing and healing. Of taking responsibility to play out their lives, their cards, in the best way that they can. What I am saying here, is to try your hardest to not succumb to your son's extortion or blackmail. Why? Because it hurts him if you do.
Tornado has repeatedly said to me through the years “All I need to do is come home.” I have had to tell her the truth, that she did not do better at home, that there are far more appropriate resources available that can help her get on her feet. That used to hurt to say no, until I found this to be true, she has way more help through various agencies. She has shuffled in and out of rehabs and programs, that if she completed, would have housed her in sober living, provided classes, vocational training, etc. I have not put one cent into those resources. She is an adult and is able to apply for financial aid to access treatment, if she chooses to. I have fallen prey to her calls from rehab a few times “I need clothes, candy, etc.” because I felt at the time, if she is in rehab trying to get sober, I would help a bit. That turned out to be a ploy. She had most of that available to her.
This has reaffirmed my conviction that I am not her “safety net.” I have told her that my “help” has not helped her. It’s true. If I am too involved, she stagnates. She slowly becomes more dependent, manipulative, and the cycle continues. She doesn’t claim ownership of her responsibility and accountability for her poor choices. It does not help her take her focus off of relying on me to solve her problems. She is capable of stepping up. But, if I am in rescue mode, her motivation to be self sufficient goes out the window.
The tricky part is how to engage, or not, with our adult wayward children. We love them. How do we strengthen ourselves as to not fall victim to their toddler like whims? With that, I must say that I was a bit perturbed at the analogy your therapist use of “toddler behavior”. While true, I think it struck a chord with me because part of my over involvement was just that, I wasn’t seeing them as adults. They were my kids, and I was willing to do whatever it took to try to pull them up out of the rabbit hole. It has taken years of chaos and drama for me to get that imagery out of my head and heart. Years to let go and understand that my wayward adult kids will choose as they do. I’m still here on CD writing to share what I am learning with others, and to guard my heart, but also to remind myself of the work I must do, to keep my sanity and live the best possible life I can, no matter what my two choose. Rain is going to be 45, Tornado 36.
The remedy for me, is to understand that I cannot put my life on hold waiting for my two to fix their problems. Interestingly, my 16 year old granddaughter has been modeling that for quite some time. Both of her parents have been grossly negligent of their responsibilities due to active addiction. Despite all she has been through, she has resolved to live her life, excel in school and set goals for herself. I don’t think she realizes how much her strength and resilience has helped me.
Keep working on building yourself up, Ithurtz. Take one day, one step at a time. We can’t change our adult kids, but we can change ourselves.
(((Hugs)))
New Leaf
 

Ithurtz

New Member
So he’s back to drinking. His mother says she is not and she says she doesn’t know where he’s getting money to buy the vodka. I spoke with him briefly telling him he has to decide to change his life’s direction. He replied that life is too hard, job markets bad, and he began slurring his words, so I told I will not speak with him in that condition. So he hung up.

I must take this day by day and Let go and Let God. Still hurts me so that he cannot alter his course.

A
 

FallingIn

New Member
Hi lthurtz,
Where you are in your journey with your son sounds so familiar to where I am. I am trying to detach from my 26 yo son who is an uncontrolled alcoholic (vodka), goes to ER almost weekly due to intoxication and suicide ideation, and pulls at my heartstrings so strongly. He has no friends and no job, so he gets extremely drunk to numb his pain of depression and hangs out with other drunks downtown. I am enabling him by putting him up in airbnbs so he stays off the streets. I know this is not good as I really can't afford it (I am retired and my husband passed away 3 yrs ago), but I am having a really hard time letting go. The only reason I was able to ask him to leave my house was I now have cancer and going through chemo, I cannot have the chaos he brings around me 24/7. I gather strength reading everyone's posts, seeing that there are others out there who are walking similar paths as I am. I have been living with his chaos since he was about 15 when he dropped out of high school and started drinking heavily. He's been in rehab 3 times, been in trouble with the law - but never been to jail. I really need the advice and support I get here too. I know exactly what I need to do, but have so much trouble doing so. It helps to read about others who have been where we are.
One word of advice I was given a few years ago from Copa, after asking 'when will it ever end' was "It will end when you say it does". That has stuck with me. Just so hard as we really want to "save" our kids from their bad choices, but knowing we never can.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am enabling him by putting him up in airbnbs so he stays off the streets.
Hi Fallingin. What was your user name here before?

Look. There are two ways to look at your situation. Both involve at their heart kindness and compassion for yourself. i think chemo is one of the hardest things in life to go through. Paying for an Airbnb so that you don't have one more stress in your life as you undergo treatment, is a gift to yourself.

The other way to look at it is this: Paying for an Airbnb may not be enough. What I mean by that, is that maybe you can adopt another attitude towards yourself and your role, and your son's responsibility for himself. Maybe you can consider that your son not you is responsible. And you deserve kindness.

The question here is, why aren't you letting yourself live in peace?

Where I live there is a Rescue Mission that provides free room and board to people who can't afford it. They rent very nice and sometimes, new, houses where people live communally. The only string attached is abstinence. No drugs and alcohol. That your son chooses substances, over dignity and security, is his choice alone. It's his responsibility. Not yours.

Like all of us, you have no control over whether or not your son stops drinking.

This situation you are in is entirely about you and your needs. Not his. He's an adult. A responsible adult.

Why do you judge yourself? If you need to have your son off the streets while you are in this very difficult process, who could judge you? But clearly, you judge yourself. Quite harshly.

The Airbnb is not causing your son's drinking. Your son is responsible. You could house him in the Taj Mahal and his drinking would still be his responsibility. My son's argument was always, I need a place to stay in order to get treatment.

Look. Any way you spin it, or I spin it, or they spin it, they're still responsible.

I am glad you're back. Please try to be kind to yourself.
 
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Ithurtz

New Member
FallingIn, so sorry to hear about your son and how life has played out so far. You've been in as long as I have, about 13 years of stress, pain, chaos. Plus now you have it even more with the Cancer diagnosis. I cannot gripe how that must be impacting your mental and physical being.

Please stay on here, as I have found many contributors writings do help, with Copa and New Leaf at the top of my readings. The pain of how our children decide to live their lives is just so incomprehensible. As I carry on I see so many young people at work, at play, doing things, smiling, and I know my son is capable of all these, but is writing himself off. He just believes he's been dealt a bad deal with life and alcohol makes it go away. Everyday I say the Let go and Let God, but even then the pain still stabs me.

He is back out of detox and I don't know where he is or what he is doing.

A
 
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