difficult child has now sold (ebay) all the gifts he received from us last year...

[susiestar]

Signorina, are you seeing a therapist and going to alanon? I am a lot less worried about what he will do with these gifts than I am about how wrapped up you are in him. I know how easy it is to let your life get all wrapped up in what a difficult child is doing, and to worry that if you do this or that you will lose him forever. This is a very natural thing for a mom to do, and it is just as unhealthy as it is natural.

Addiction does not just pop up out of nowhere. It just doesn't. It lurks in the family tree perpetuating behaviors that make alcoholism a whole lot easier to exist. While only the addict/alcoholic is responsible for their problems, it isn't just the addict who is ill. You are incredibly tied up in his addiction and behaviors and a codependent life is not a good one. Not only is it very emotionally unhealthy for you and difficult child, it is even worse for your other children.

I am sure you can't really see how you can behave/think differntly with-o risking having your son fall completely into his addiction, with-o making him much worse. It is HARD to be where you are. But you NEED to get help from a therapist and from alanon or some other type of support group that is in real life.

Christmas is a really hard time for families - all the ideas of "perfect" Christmases and what we should and should not do can make it hard to not be stressed past the breaking point and a therapist can really help.

Maybe one of your gifts to your family could be to get a therapist of your own and see her/him very regularly to explore codependence? If you won't go for you, go for difficult child. Alcoholics/addicts who have parents/family who go to alanon and/or therapy have a 30% higher chance of getting and staying sober. If you are at this tipping point, 30% s a heck of a big nudge, isn't it?

I vote with Janet and Kathy on this one. I do think a used or refurb laptop would be fine, but a cheap deal from BestBuy is too. And the tablet would be fine if it was used. but thsi s Gma's gift to him and is between difficult child and Gma - stay out of it. Focus on the joy of giving. Let him be the one to worry about the joys of having and not having.

 

[Star*]

Sig,

You know..you asked "WHY is he deliberately making a mess out of his life?" and the thought that popped into MY head was.....Maybe he's not TRYING to make a mess out of it. Maybe with the coping skills and age of mind that he IS.......he's doing the best that he can WITHOUT parental help.

To us? It seems ABSURD to sell all of your belongings. To my son? It's as if 'Oh there is a flower I'll pick it and sell it for a meal at Burger King." WHY ARE YOU SO UPSET WITH ME it was just a flower - sheesh there are tons of flowers - everywhere. (substitute flower for any personal belongings) and to HIM? HE IS surviving.

I say this because I had a conversation with my son not so long ago about surviving and HOW he was managing to do it. He doesn't do drugs, or sell them - is repulsed by the whole notion of them. I would say that he didn't drink but he's 21 and I'm not a complete naive soul. He also has a warrant current for missed probation (thanks to the wonderful advice he got from Daddy Disney who said - YOU ONLY HAVE THREE MONTHS left on your probation? Heck - blow that off and come here with me - alterior motive - I need your SS# for foodstamps to get more money for dope -hows that for manipulative) so I know he's not stealing things and does NOT want to end up back in jail. So he became a horse=trader of sorts. He would buy low, fix something - sell for a profit, take that money - buy something else - etc...etc... Not better than a job - but it kept him alive for three years....and more importantly to HIM?? ON.HIS.OWN.

Did he sell things we gave him? You bet. Did I send anymore gifts or packages? NOOooooooooope. Not even Christmas - because I just needed to cut out the middle man and KNEW if I got him X - then X would be on Craigslist tomorrow being sold to buy a something that would make him MORE money to keep him afloat - and he was PROUD of himself. He didn't look at it like he had HURT us.....he looked at it like - WE gave you those things - THey were HIS to do with as he pleased....he had to survive.....and he found a way - BE PROUD OF ME.

Although the logic was a bit skewed? I saw the message loud and clear and it all stacked up to - I DID IT ON MY OWN. BE PROUD OF ME FOR SURVIVING. -

Once I had that notion in my head? I allowed him all the freedom he could muster and stopped sending him anything that "helped" him be PROUD on my back. That way I didn't get angry about my gift giving and his SURVIVAL thoughts.....and he could be free 100% to feel like he HAD made it on his own.

As for the laptop and ipad thing? Oh there is no way in hades I'd pony up for those things....at best I'd be handing him a used computer and tell him - Wheel and deal there Magoo and find yourself a better laptop - this is as good as I could go - things are tight this year. Check Pawn Shops. Cause that's where he's going to go.

Just my opinion. - oh any by the way - Dude even traded clothes and SHOES.........so even that stopped. Not even gift cards....he traded those. It was like you couldn't give him ANYTHING he'd keep. So why bother.

 

[Signorina]

Signorina, are you seeing a therapist and going to alanon? I am a lot less worried about what he will do with these gifts than I am about how wrapped up you are in him. I know how easy it is to let your life get all wrapped up in what a difficult child is doing, and to worry that if you do this or that you will lose him forever. This is a very natural thing for a mom to do, and it is just as unhealthy as it is natural. ... You are incredibly tied up in his addiction and behaviors and a codependent life is not a good one.

While I appreciate your concern and I am genuinely touched by the sentiment behind it, I have to disagree; I love my son and yes - he is often in my thoughts. But my life is not about him. This is the "Difficult Adult Child" board so I post about my "Difficult Adult Child" 99% of the time. I don't post about my wonderful 2 younger boys, my PITA job, my husband, my volunteer work, my lousy tennis game, the great book I just finished, my ridiculous craft project that is turning out hideously, my love of cooking, my penchant for Hersey's kisses with- Almonds, the wonderful vacation I took last week... please be assured I have a full life. I don't post about it because it's irrelevant to the subject at the top of the page. I come here to check in, to touch base with the wonderful women who were my lifeline that awful first week, and because it reminds me not to enable. And when I read posts by Nancy, and TL and PG (in particular), it drives home the fact that my difficult child has begun a journey down a really dark path. That reminder fortifies my belief that H and I cannot pretend he is OK and we were right to draw a line in the sand!

Is my son an addict? I don't know, but I do know that using pot is costing him a lot more than it is benefiting him and that's enough for me. There is so much I don't know because it all happened so abruptly. I found out my son was using pot (prolifically) at 2pm on Monday August 29. Until that date, I thought that everything was mostly OK. Yes we had some hiccups but nothing that was atypical to any young man's first summer home after college. At 7pm on 8/29, we expressed our concern about his drug use combined with his 2.2 GPA; we asked him to stay home and regroup, and when he balked, we told him we could not financially support his return to school knowing he planned to use drugs. At 7:20 pm he moved out AGAINST OUR WISHES and went back to school. He LEFT and lives nearly 5 hours away! Can you imagine that unfolding in the course of 5 hours? ABRUPT doesn't begin to explain it. Since that day, I have had little contact with him, I didn't hear from him for over a month. I have no idea how he is supporting himself. I've seen him for a few hours on 3 occasions. Our relationship is undergoing a slow thaw and he seems to be reaching out a bit. He is about to come home for an extended stay and I am concerned. I want to reach out to the easy child inside my difficult child and that's the dilemma I post about. (And the dilemma for which I sought therapy)

MM-you posted that I seem to feel guilty that I am not paying difficult child's tuition. I had to chew on that for a while. I feel HORRIBLE but I don't feel guilty. Because it never dawned on us that difficult child would leave & go back to school, there were times early on that I wondered if we should've paid his tuition and rent and kept quiet. I felt like we threw him from the frying pan into the fire and was worried (and still am a bit) that he would do something desperate to earn the immediate $6000 he had been counting upon. I got over that wish by remembering the only thing worse than difficult child being back at school and partying too much WITHOUT our money/approval is for him to be back at school and partying too much WITH our money/(tacit) approval.

I am not desperate for his approval. If I were, I could easily obtain it at great personal cost. That's my stumbling block. I struggle between my mommy heart and the part of me that wants to shake some sense into him.

Now this is way too long and if you have gotten this far, I thank you. Somehow I must have gotten off on the wrong foot here and for that I apologize. I represented myself as wishy washy or singularly fixated when I am not. I am very concerned for my son. I won't hide or apologize for that; I wouldn't want to be any other way and it's important for me to be a part of his life. But I post here as an OUTLET because it's safe (and because writing is my outlet) and this is the ONLY place I go to when I stew. So, yes when I am here - I AM often stewing, but when I am not here, I am not stewing. I hope this makes sense.

And Star* - just caught your post and I agree. The gift we bought him is a last time thing if it disappears.

 

[Nancy]

Sig you are nothing at all resembling wishy washy. I don't think I could have done what you did on that awful Aug 29. It took my far too many years to identify what was going on and have the courage to kick her out. When you first came Occupational Therapist (OT) the board and told that story I was so impressed by your strength and clarity. You taught me a lot that day and continue to do so. What you just said was so honest and I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts and feelings.

There are times when I am hesitant to say something too because it's easy to assume I am enabling or haven't detached enough or am too involved in her recovery and so I keep quiet. I have met two wonderful families through difficult child's recovery and I must say are very involved in their difficult child's recovery and both difficult child's are doing wonderfully, much better than mine. In fact I am going to an AA meeting tonight that the one mom goes to with her son. He just had his one year sobriety. She and her husband have supported their son through inpatient, outpatient, sober house and now his living arrangements on his own with sober roommates. She cooked food for the sober house every week. She went to AA meetings with him, she helps other young people find help, she is there to talk to and listen. The director of the sober house never told her she was too involved in her son's recovery or more involved than he was. She has her life, she does not live for her son, but she and her entire family celebrate their son's sobriety and are not ashamed to say it.

I grapple with the same feelings about paying for difficult child's school. She wants to go back part time and study veterinary tech. I wish we could say sure we'll help but I can't and without our help she can't go. But we've done that twice before and I don't see the kind of changes I need to see to help. But I still feel awful about it. I feel awful that I have not gotten anything for difficult child for Christmas that she will really be excited about. I know what I want to do but I am trying to process it in my mind. I think I am nearly there but it takes a while.

You are not fixated on your son. I am not fixated on my daughter. We both have a difficult child with drug/alcohol issues and you are right, this is our outlet, and I am so grateful for it. If you were too involved in your son or was riddled with guilt, you could not have done what you did when you realized there was a problem that needed to be addressed.

Nancy

 

[Star*]

Soooooooo you went on vacation huh?

Did you bring ME back something pretty? (snort)

I'm still waiting for Hersheys to invent a kiss that is sugar free. Dratted Hershey candy for being the best tasting kisses in the world. Okay next to a donkey nuzzle....(thinks a moment) ANNNNNd my dogs - omg my dogs always have a great healing power in their kisses, and DF - he has pretty sweet kisses too. Other than that? I have had Hersheys sugar free, carmel filled, miniatures and mm mmmmmmm they make you want to slap your momma. Or was that the Dove Dark chocolate truffles? Either way my Northern Mother said if I slap her I won't have teeth in my mouth to eat anything so it wouldn't matter, but you get my Southern jist.

And as far as the presents go? I really agree with what you're saying. Sometimes - and I have had a really difficult task in explaining this to people in the past that know Dudes past - but sometimes? You just have to do what you want to do because it makes YOU feel good, normal, right, happy. I can literally see your son sitting in your living room with his brothers opening up their new gifts and you dolling out a used pawn shop computer and saying "We love you - Merry Christmas!" Yeah - (sigh) Doesn't make much good for your heart does it to think about that scene? Mine either - so when that time of year for gift giving comes around I usually just go, get, wrap and do without much adoo about it. I'm an adult and I'll give what I like to whom I please. And if the whom goes off and pawns it or sells it? Well then I guess I have a good enough batch of friends to come here and say nothing other than "I'm sorry" and not "I told you so."

I told you so's are so over rated because you never get the chance to stand up and say it back to the naysayers when the kid actually keeps the gifts you give him. Then it just makes you look like a nut. Dancing around in your living room, pointing at your kid, playing with the gift.....in July and saying SEE I told you he'd keep it..I told you he wouldn't get rid of it.....I told you I told you....neener nenner boo boo.. I mean seriously you start that and you're liable to get a real vacation at the State Bed and Breakfast - Know what I mean?? (although there is something to be said for 3 hots and a cot, craft class and a personal therapist, plus medications)

Whatever reason a kid does what he does? Heaven only knows - really. I stopped trying to put the word LOCIGAL anywhere NEAR Dudes name a long time ago and I'm a lot happier.

Let me know what you got me....lol you know - from vacation. I ask everyone......just soze you know.

Hugs & Love
Star

 

[Signorina]

Thanks for the reply and the reassurance Nancy - it means so much to me.

Star* - I didn't bring back anything except a Christmas ornament as a souvenir (plus a rash from the sun, definitely NOT pretty). Can you believe we didn't shop at all? We went to a wedding in Charleston for the weekend and then to H's sales conference in FL for 4 days. The weather was awesome and H worked while I sat on the beach and read for hours on end. Perfect! Even better, my mom stayed with the pcs and stocked my freezer full of home made food and straightened out my kitchen drawers. AND did the laundry. BLISS! H and I haven't been away alone together for an entire week since 2004. It was nice to discover we still had things to talk about after all these years. Thanks for your insight into gift giving. I am just going to give it with a happy heart.

Now if I can only get rid of this rash...on my FACE

 

[toughlovin]

Sig - I agree with Nancy - you have been strong and clear much earlier on in this process than I was!!! And you bring up another really good point and that is this is the soft place to land with others who really understand our difficult child issues.... so this is where I come to talk about them. I don't really talk much about the rest of my life here... and I too have a full life and am mostly happy in spite of my difficult children shenanigans. I do obsess now and then and I do stew some of the time but it is not ALL the time by any means. So I get what you are saying.... on this board you look more focused on, more invovled in your difficult children problems than you actually are because that is what you come here for.

TL

 

[AnnieO]

You know... It is of course your decision. I guess I got lost trying to figure out why he would need both a laptop and and iPad? None of my business, of course.

in my opinion, yes, you love him, and you want to give him what he needs. on the other hand... You are concerned about him selling stuff.

It's easy to say "don't worry about it" - NOT easy to do. But you have done a lot of really difficult stuff, so... I think you can. If you want to.

But... Go ahead & give it to him... Just try not to obsess about him selling it...

 

[Signorina]

His grandmother has bought all 6 grandkids iPads. She didn't want to exclude him.
difficult child's current, failing laptop is 5-6 years old and running windows XP. He is a college student, majoring in chemistry (AFAIK, yes ironic) and needs a laptop that can keep up w the workload and run the programs required (MIS classes). I am trying to support his decision to stay in school (laptop) while not support his partying (cash). But I will just let it be and give it w a pure heart.

 

[toughlovin]

Just want to make sure you know for sure he is in college and actually taking classes....I keep wondering if he is lying about that too.... that is not a statement about your difficult child so much as one about mine!!!

TL

 

[CrazyinVA]

I stopped giving Oldest sentimental gifts a few years ago. It hurt too much to watch her lose them, leave them behind at various places she lived, or in some cases stolen or destroyed by roommates who got ticked off at her. It makes gift-choosing more difficult, to be sure.

Then earlier this year, Youngest left 99% of her possessions behind in Florida when things with her boyfriend fell apart. Family heirlooms and keepsakes that will never been seen again. Her confirmation bible, an antique youth chair that was sat in by 4 generations of children in our family, a ring that belonged to my grandmother, a recipe book full of family recipes, her children's baby books and keepsakes, countless other things. I still can't think about it too much, or I cry. And I'm ticked off at myself for letting her have some of those things, being foolish enough to think she would keep them safe. Of course, she cries, too, and is devastated, but I saw it coming a mile away, which makes it all the more painful for me. So, I'm now hesitant to give her or my grandkids anything that could be considered a "keepsake" or have any sentimental value down the road. And that makes me incredibly sad. Now I'm just giving "stuff."

So, I know how painful it is to see gifts you chose for him so thoughtfully, listed on eBay. And I understand the dilemma you're in this year. I guess I'd be thinking whether my giving him a laptop was somehow going to contribute to his pot issues and possible addiction, if he's going to turn around and sell it. I'd be wondering if it's worth it, or if I'm just throwing money away. But I'm pretty jaded when it comes to that stuff, and you have to do what you can live with. All I can say is, trust your gut.

 

[Signorina]

TL- I *THINK* he is still taking classes. He states as much, his phone usage seems to back that up. (no use at all at certain times, regularly) We will verify it when he is home over break - our dental insurance and auto insurance will need proof to continue his coverage into 2012.

And we will have "the talk" about us paying his tuition for NEXT semester...and if he wants us to - we will need to see his grades FIRST.

It didn't seem worthwhile to have that "formal" discussion before his grades were available. Too many "ifs"...(if you do this, we will do that etc)

Yep, dreading it. I know we will be taking a big step in our relationship in the next two weeks - but I have NO IDEA if it is backwards or forwards. eep

 

[toughlovin]

I would definitely think twice about giving him the laptop until you know for sure he is enrolled and is taking classes.... because if he is not in school and also has an ipad then the lap top would be a real source of income....

Aghhh the things our difficult children make us worry about.

TL

 

[Nancy]

I agree with TL about the laptop. If he isn't enrolled he doesn't need the laptop, the iPad will get him connected to the internet. Of course he can always enroll and drop out but we can't predict and account for every possibility.

Nancy

 

[Signorina]

I really think he is enrolled. (Yep. I may be in for a fall. ) He likely has an accounting hold on his transcripts bc his tuition or deposits are past due. I think its likely that he may have dropped his Accounting 101 class-he was honest about struggling in it, so may not be at full time status. (I'm guilty of that-I dropped Accounting 2x in college. Kept crediting the debits & vice versa. Still have nightmares)

Maybe I am setting myself up for a fall, but I think if he had dropped out-he'd be in the area and working full time at his "summer job. " It pays well & he loves it-he's been working there since age 16.

While he may be enrolled-his grades are likely mediocre & hes orobably dropped at least 1 class-that I am not looking forward to knowing. Such a waste of blessings!

Did I mention that part of me is glad he sold his Xbox & games? They're toys as far as i am concerned. Even if it's not a sign that he is buckling down-it does mean he is feeling the pinch & getting money somewhat legitimately and had to give things up.

Time will tell... I can verify his enrollment for insurance purposes-but it will notify him that I've done so. I just need to wait (not my strong suit) and ket things unfold. He'll be home on Saturday. If his grades are good-he'll be crowing when he gets his finals results. If he's mum, we will raise the issue after Christmas. I am not going to let it cast a pall on the house before the holiday.

I am giving the laptop in good yet wary faith. I know he "needs" it so If he sells it, it will be the last good faith gift. 2nd time, shame on me.

I HATE THIS!! I too want my sweet, loving, hardworking "good boy " back.

 

[Nancy]

When we kicked difficult child out of the house last January she went to live with the boy down the street. She was enrolled in community college and we told her we would continue driving her to class every day because we had already paid the tuition and we didn't want it lost. That lasted a week and then she started telling us she had rides, which was a lie. She asked if she could come home and get her Xbox and I said no. I wasn't about to reward her for drinking and moving in with druggies by letting her sit in front of the tv and play Xbox every day. So I took it and hid it in the attic. She tried to get into the house one day but I had changed the garage door code. I was sure when she got hungry enough or need a drink bad enough she would sell it. I don't care what happens to it but I'll never give it back to her. Of course she ended up failing all her classes.

Nancy

 

[susiestar]

I am very sorry if I upset you. I honestly did not mean it that way. You have fit so well into the family here that I forgot you have only been here a few months! Most of us post about our non difficult child kids and the things they are doing, either in the watercooler or as part of a post in another forum. Having not heard much about your other children, it gave me a rather skewed view of your life. For reacting to that, I am very sorry. We can only know each other through the words typed on the board, so mistakes and misconceptions occur from time to time. They are NOT meant to be nasty or rude.

I really admire the way you handled your son's problems. There are a LOT of people who could not have acted as decisively or with the unity that you and husband did.

 

[DammitJanet]

Im one who is very leery of giving Cory "good" gifts because he tends to lose them. I just gave him the most expensive one I have ever given him. A brand new phone. He better not mess up. Of course I have insurance on it but I told both him and Mandy that I would beat them both all the way back to their house if they lost it or broke it...lol. These new smartphones are basically small computers!

 

[dashcat]

This thread has struck a chord with me fo several reasons. My difficult child hasn't (that I know of ) gone the ebay route, but she did sell her very nice bike on Craigslist to pay her dad for her car insurance early this summer. It made me so sad becasue riding bikes was something we enjoyed together ... it was new to me as I'd not ridden a bike for 20 years before my double knee replacement in 2009 and it was such a thrill to share it with her. She's a bit passive/aggressive and I couldn't help but take it personally. She wasn't working -or even looking for work at the time, a fact that only served to make me more confused and angry at her choices.

She had a locket her birthmom had given to the social service people at the time difficult child was removed from her custody. I gave it to her when she'd asked if Bmom left her anything (she was 13 when she asked and she wore it constantly from the time I gave it to her). When she went on her Kairos retreat in high school, family members were asked to send a letter. I sent one with the necklace her dad had given me as a wedding gift. It was a heart surrounded by tiny diamonds, just beautiful. I wrote her a letter in which I said the necklace representated the love we still have for, despite the divorce. The heart has two distinct sides, I wrote, but they meet at the top and bottom and form a neverending circle.

She put my necklace on the same chain as the Bmom's necklace and wore them together. When the chain broke, she gave it to me and asked me if I could get her a new chain. This was right around when her difficult child-ness was becoming very apparent. She was leaving for college and I just put it away and she never asked about it.

Last Christmas I had the small heart attached to the locket (with assurances from the jeweler that they could be separated if that was her wish), bought a nice gold chain and gave it to her. She was thrilled for about a day and then I never saw her wear it again. When she moved out of her dad's, he found it on the floor under a pile of dirty clothes and gave it back to me.

I'll give it to her some day, but I am in a serious quandry as to what to get her for Christmas....

I have a tie tack and some cuff links from my dad, and thought (and changed my mind) of doing a necklace out of one of them. She pretty much doesn't wear any jewelery now, and clearly does not value what she had.

She has put on about 80 pounds. Every time I see her, she is in either her dad's shirts or her boyfriend's sweats and sweat shirts. Clothes seem out of the question. I don't even know what size she wears.

She doesn't wear makeup or perfume, and actually she seems to have given up showering.

I bought her a book in a series I know she enjoyed, but I am totatlly stumped on what/if I should get anything else.

She used to be the easiest kid in the world to buy for: loved all sorts of music (now only weird, obscure stuff ... I don't even know where her iPod is), loved clothes, jewerly, all sorts of books....

I know how you feel, Sig. I know what it's like to want to go back and -even just for one magic Christmas morning - have things make sense and have a predictable outcome.

Dash

 

[Nancy]

Wow some of these stories are really heartbeaking. What is clear is that our difficult child's do not value the same things we do and they are just stuff to be sold for whatever it is they need or want at the moment.

Nancy