Exercise

[Elsi]

I'm certainly not claiming to be giving medical advice! Just sharing my own observations and what has worked for me. And my observation is...when I eat the number of calories my doctor or my dieting app tells me I am "allowed" to eat, or that I used to eat when I was younger, I gain weight. And many women my age or older have told me the same. Metabolism slows as we age, for most of us. My mother is not frail or in poor health, and has not lost her appetite - she watches what she eats because she gains weight when she does not. And not a little healthy "padding" but weight that she finds undesirable for health and mobility reasons. I would not say she has an eating disorder. I would say she is careful, because she has found that is what works for her.

And yes, I absolutely agree that it's better to accept a few extra pounds than end up with an eating disorder! And yes, a lot of research shows that a little extra as we age is not a bad thing. I am not presuming to tell anyone what weight they should aspire to or saying that losing weight should be everyone's goal - that should be between them and their doctor. Absolutely.

What I am saying is I believe that calories counting apps and charts may not be appropriately calibrated for older women. Women are under-researched, older women particularly so. Men are the default for most medical studies, because researchers don't have to worry about reproductive issues and hormone fluctuations you have with women that muddy things up.

And when I rely on those apps and doctors recommendations and they don't work for me, I get discouraged. Because I am doing everything "right" and still not getting results - the same frustration Copa expresses above. So I share this certainly not as a medical recommendation, but as my lived experience. For others who may also be discouraged because they are doing it all "by the book" and not seeing results. Sometimes, for some of us, the book is wrong. We have to do our own self-experimentation to know what works and how we feel best.

And I am NOT advocating dropping below 1000 calories - just saying that the 1200-1300 my calories app tells me I'm allowed (even more when I exercise!) is wildly off base for my actual metabolism. I have to stick closer to that net 1,000. Even when I'm exercising. And 1,000 calories isn't really all that much food - which is why I try to make it count, nutritionally.

 

[BusynMember]

Elsi tjats why its best to in my opinion check with the doctor, not charts on the imternet.

I actually dont coumt calories. If 800 calories is ok for you that doesnt mesn anyone else should go so far under what is recommended.

Each individual person needs to find out what is healthy for them by their doctor. It certainly isnt healthy for the heart or mobility to be twenty pounds overweight. But not eating the right foods and amounts cant help eitjer. Or my big personsl monster.....smoking.

Mang elderly people dont exercise anymore. Many need help slowly beginning.

All factors should be checked with a doctor first in my opinion. That is the best way to learn what is safe for them. That is all I am saying.

 

[Elsi]

Elsi tjats why its best to in my opinion check with the doctor,

My doctor uses those same kinds of charts. Most do. They aren't doing fancy metabolic studies to see what I need individually. They are relying on those general recommendations - which I do not believe have been properly researched and calibrated for older women. If I follow my doctor's dietary recommendations to the letter, I gain weight - this is what I am saying. Which is why I advocate also experimenting to find what works for you. Not INSTEAD of a doctor. But in addition to. Because we are all individuals. And sometimes the general, middle-of-the-road recommendations don't work for us. I rely on what my body is telling me as much as I rely on my doctor.

I never said I was eating only 800 calories, or that anyone else should. I said I need to stick to net 1,000, and we all need to find the balance that works for us individually.

 

[Copabanana]

why its best to in my opinion check with the doctor, not charts on the imternet.

The medical professionals don't necessarily know sometimes, and if they do they are constrained by worries about liability. Or their preference is for the "party line" which they believe is should be aligned to patients' interests...

I go to a nutritionist who is also a Physician's Assistant, for all intents and purposes, functioning as a physician. I like her very much and I trust her. I have gone to her 3 or 4 years.

To lose weight she gave me a diet with about 1700 calories. Which I tried for months. Without results. I did not gain, but I did not lose either. Despite that she did not adjust the food plan down. While she did not say so aggressively the presumption was non-compliance on my part. These medical professionals often have it in their head what is "correct," which in her case is the standard diet for diabetics, (I am not diabetic), and that is what "should" work. And if it does not work there is operator error or (self?) deception on the part of the individual.

I continued to go to her but I relied upon my own devices to come up with something that would work for me.

My mother is not frail or in poor health, and has not lost her appetite - she watches what she eats because she gains weight

My experience is the same as Elsi's. My grandmother and mother were like Elsi's mom. Both were small women. Each of them arrived at very rigid eating regimens. Their motivation was health and well-being. They knew exactly what went in their mouths at specific times of the day. While there was room for pleasure and some variability, in the main they ate the same thing EVERY day to maintain their weight, and that was VERY little.

My grandmother did not eat breakfast. Her lunch was ALWAYS a piece of toast with jam, a piece of cheddar cheese, a boiled egg, and coffee with hot milk. She liked these foods. She might or might not have an apple as a mid afternoon snack. Her dinner was a huge salad, maybe 3 quarts, a very tiny piece of meat, and that was it. She might have a small serving of ice cream or a small piece of dark chocolate. And that was how she ate. As I look at this, this seems like 800 to 900 calories.

My mother had cereal and milk and a small banana for breakfast, a slice of wheat bread with peanut butter for lunch, and before dinner, a beer or glass of wine, and then cooked vegetables, sometimes a small baked potato, a small piece of fish or chicken, and a small salad. If she wanted at night she'd have a couple of pepperridge farms cookies. This also seems to me to be around 900 calories.

I think these women intuitively each hit on a formula where they felt good, had a sense of control, and got pleasure from food by occasional indulgence. Neither of them used internet or were guided by anything other than their own bodies and minds.

As I think about it SWOT. Both women did what you did. Gave themselves healthy foods that appealed to them.

In my own case I kept trying the diet the nutritionist gave me. Even with 5 to 10 hours of exercise a week, it did not work for me. What worked for me was intermittent fasting, and low carb. Period. And then even with that I hit a wall.

 

[Copabanana]

I never said I was eating only 800 calories, or that anyone else should. I said I need to stick to net 1,000

I think that it is wise to keep in mind that eating can become disordered, by a compulsive hyper=focus upon weight loss or maintenance.

At the same time, some people require less than 1000 calories to maintain their weight and health. I believe my mother, grandmother and I are these people. But I think I have a tendency to go too far. Which I recognize. I can be extreme. But I am aware of the dangers, and I check myself.

At this time, I am going out to eat more. I will occasionally bake. But I am very afraid of giving myself foods that I truly love. At home, I have adopted a pattern of eating foods I don't necessarily like. Food has become fuel. And I am denying myself food I love. I think this is bad. But it is not an eating disorder.

My goal now is to increase my daily exercise so that I am able to begin to eat foods I like. I do not know how I can regain a sense of moderation. I have no confidence in myself at all that I will be able to limit what I eat, if I love the food. Which is sad.

 

[Elsi]

My grandmother did not eat breakfast. Her lunch was ALWAYS a piece of toast with jam, a piece of cheddar cheese, a boiled egg, and coffee with hot milk. She liked these foods. She might or might not have an apple as a mid afternoon snack. Her dinner was a huge salad, maybe 3 quarts, a very tiny piece of meat, and that was it. She might have a small serving of ice cream or a small piece of dark chocolate. And that was how she ate. As I look at this, this seems like 800 to 900 calories.

This sounds very much like my mother. She is 5'0" and about 115 pounds.

My grandmother, on the other hand, I swear lived mainly on chocolate chip ice cream for her last five years. Probably still around 800-900 calories total for the day, but she would eat nothing but little bowls of ice cream for lunch and dinner if I didn't come over and make sure she ate something else with it! That's what she wanted, and she lived to 98 years old with her ice cream.

To lose weight she gave me a diet with about 1700 calories. Which I tried for months. Without results. I did not gain, but I did not lose either. Despite that she did not adjust the food plan down. While she did not say so aggressively the presumption was non-compliance on my part. These medical professionals often have it in their head what is "correct," which in her case is the standard diet for diabetics, (I am not diabetic), and that is what "should" work. And if it does not work there is operator error or (self?) deception on the part of the individual.

This is pretty much my exact experience with my doctor. I kept logs, followed the recommendations, and it didn't work. And instead of considering that perhaps my metabolism works differently, the assumption was that I was lying.

I work out about90 minutes a day 5 days a week - 60 minutes cardio, 30 minutes alternating strength or yoga (though I'm just now getting serious about the strength - I was just doing yoga). I don't get a lot of other incidental exercise working from home, except housecleaning in the evening and yard work in the summer. But I push myself HARD in the mornings. 5-6 miles on the elliptical, or cross train with elliptical and stationary bike. Based on this, my doctor thinks I should be consuming a minimum of 1600-1700 calories a day. If I do, I put on 1-2 pounds a week.

When I was marathon training I actually put ON ten pounds between muscle mass gains and eating more to keep up my strength for running.

My metabolism is apparently geared towards running marathons on very little food. Or surviving starvation conditions.

But I am very afraid of giving myself foods that I truly love. At home, I have adopted a pattern of eating foods I don't necessarily like. Food has become fuel. And I am denying myself food I love. I think this is bad.

I don't think this is sustainable, long term. Food is pleasure. And we have to give ourselves that. I have to be careful with my treats, because I can easily go overboard - a square of chocolate becomes a couple whole bars. Unlike my mother, who is very disciplined, I can't stop at just a little when there is more left! Do not leave me alone with a bowl of cookie dough or a pan of brownies! So I don't keep sugary stuff in the house on a regular basis. But I allow myself the occasional treat out, and ease up on holidays, and don't feel guilty about it. I let myself enjoy it when I do have it.

And on a day to day basis, I DO eat foods that I like - I've just found healthy stuff I like. I love fish, especially salmon. I eat a lot of it. I like my veggies roasted with a little olive oil, so I do that - I don't force myself to choke down only steamed, unseasoned veggies or salad greens with no dressing. I use the olive oils and balsamic vinegars I love and lots of spices and flavors. And the healthier I eat, the more my pallet has shifted to prefer eating this way anyway. I really crave my smoothy with greens and berries in the morning. I love veggies and hummus for lunch. I make delicious homemade soups and sauces. Eating healthy doesn't have to mean suffering!

 

[BusynMember]

Okay. I think I get the difference. I know nobody nor do I want to myself plan life around when I eat, what I eat, how much I eat, or food. As long as I am healthy I just eat what I like, staying away from fast food, sugar or anything obviously bad for me...i don't like fried food and fatty food anyway. I have gastric reflux and dont need that stuff coming up in my tjroat when I try to sleep. Eeeeerew. I will not eat fast food. Ick. When I worked at Applebees the kids who once worked at fast food places told me too much information.

I had my own issues with weight although I was a naturally skinny kid who got teased for being too skinny. No exaggeration. Teased.

Then I had a mother who often said "A little chubby, arent you?" This is when I leaped to a hefty 110 lbs (sarcasm). She even scolded me once when I was 103! I alway felt like she was monitoring her girl's weight, even though she ignored us in most matters. I am lucky not to have the family curse, an eating disorder that was real and dangerous. But until I got away from her that was a mantra of hers. I wanted to get it out of my head. I did.
.
So I dont normally diet for low weight. Normal weight yes .Skinny, no. Emaciated I recognize as sick. I am at 5'0 tall now in a S/M. And of course all of you must know that woman's sizes are now much bigger than they once were. A 5 used to be a 12 for example (I do not know if that is completely accurate). I do know for a fact that sizes have been altered for vanity. When I was a kid I wore a Size 5. It was the smallest size for teens/women. There was no size 0.

I think back in the day, it was considered unladylike to eat a hearty meal. I am not sure. I just read it. Maybe women ate more in their homes too.

I wanted to lose weight for my daughters wedding and did. But I dieted to a healthy weight. I could not exist on an apple and boiled egg for a meal. Some people obviously can and do. And thats okay if they dont get sick.

I am extremely active. As I am typing this I am walking pretty fast back and forth (thus lots of edits are usually in order). I have never been one to just sit. I am always in motion.Maybe that is why I need to eat more. But I also willfully dont want to limit my foods or obsess about eating. So we are all different. I enjoy what I eat.

I thnk way too many women, not so much men, obsess over what they weigh. And it's partly society, movie stars, magazines. I have read that the rates of eating disorders have gone up tons in the young and that nursing homes have to monitor laxative abuse. Sad.

I think personally that women are being brainwashed to be skinny, beyond the point it is necessary or even attractive. Or healthy.Women worry about it far more than men. And I dont think its a good thing.

Jmo

 

[Copabanana]

This sounds very much like my mother. She is 5'0" and about 115 pounds.

That was my mother's size. By what you've written, Elsi, I was prompted to turn to the calculator to try to correlate my mother's size, to her mother's, to my own. We are different in height, but not so much in frame, although mine, I think, is a little smaller.

My mom was 5'. My grandmother, 4'8. I am 5'6.

But what I find remarkable is that I think that my weight (about 149) seems pretty much the same proportionally to theirs, in terms of pounds per inch.

Little by little I am coming to accept where I am. I am the weight (2 pounds more) I was 30 years ago. I have been unable to sustain a weight any less than this over time, without a lot of exercise.

This is a lot of data points, that lead me to believe that I should accept staying stable where I am. Someday my body might decide to drop more, but that is another thing entirely.

I am finding that the pilates is working to help tone and redistribute my mid-section and I am becoming more streamlined. I need to focus more on this than on the scale.

Thank you people.

 

[Copabanana]

I think we have consensus.

Sensible food choices based upon nutritional needs and necessary dietary restrictions (GERD, food allergies, etc.)

Consciousness: to achieve moderation and structure (some consistency in terms of meal times and foods eaten, i.e. vegetables, macros, or even specific foods.)

Eating some of what you love and finding that balance.

Exercise.

Self-acceptance.

And then once that is accomplished, letting go and go about enjoying life.

And the rest takes care of itself.

 

[Elsi]

Copa, I am 5'5", and your weight is my goal weight. I am currently 185. Most people don't believe me when I say that, because most of it is either in my legs as muscle or in my boobs. I'm hourglass shape and proportional. My waist/hip ratio is right where they say it should be - I don't carry much in my middle. But by the scale, I am obese. When I drop back into the 170s I am merely overweight. If I drop to 150, I will still be overweight according to the scale and BMI. Which I why I also think BMI is BS. The only time in my adult life I dropped below 130 was when I was pregnant and suffered severe hyperemesis. I lost 30 pounds in my first trimester and I think ended up at 122. I looked awful.

I frequently have nurses weigh me twice because they think their first weigh-in is wrong. I had one take me to another scale to verify.

If I get down below 160, I feel really good. I think I look pretty good. I was 170-175 when I was running half marathons regularly. My body just does not want to be skinny. I do want to lose 20-30 pounds, because it would be less stress on my joints and back. Which is why I'm watching calories right now. But I'm not going to obsess, and when my body starts fighting me I'll live with whatever my final weight ends up being. Skinny is not my goal here.

My focus is on health and mobility as I get older more than appearance. I really don't care much about what others think about my appearance. The people who love me love me no matter what the scale says.

SWOT I aspire to your level of daily activity. Maybe one day, if I'm ever able to retire. But for now...I'd better stay focused for a while.

 

[BusynMember]

Elsie, i am sure you are beautiful as you are. As a loving, kind, caring person your beauty rips through my computer.

I wish I .were taller! I cant reach anything lol!

 

[Elsi]

awww, thank you, SWOT!

 

[BusynMember]

I mean it. Your goodness is obvious. You are NOT that overweight either. Between you and Copa and some others I think I have met true earth angels.

 

[Nomad]

I was honored that my previous doctor told me the truth. Prednisone changes everything. Losing weight while on it is pure hexx. It is bordering on impossible. I was eating fairly normally and gained a lot of weight. This was using restraint. She estimated for my age, height and on prednisone...I was screwed. Bottom line. So...she told me sugar and flour were out. No exceptions. No cheats. Never. Life would not be even remotely normal while on prednisone. She was absolutely right. She told me 900 calories was the max I could eat and lose weight. And everything I ate had to be nutritious.

We moved. I would of liked to have heard what she felt I should eat when off prednisone. I guess only 1000 anyway. It’s just that prednisone is sooooo nasty, you need some kind of extra help. I think most doctors would stick with what’s on the books even if their patient gains every week. And when you are on the drug for a year or more...that spells disaster.

Interesting, the new doctor who is much younger than myself and MUCH taller who is getting new fangled equipment o determine what you need to consume to lose weight said her number was 1300 on the equipment and this surprised her.

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. I’d say she is 12-15 years younger than myself. And six inches taller. Hmmm.

So...not so far fetched to say I’m 1000 (Not on prednisone).

I totally think as we get older we need to consume less. I suppose if going below 1000, one should check with a doctor.

I recall a tall fruend my age was shocked that my doctor said for me 900 calorie (of only healthy foods) diet while on prednisone should work. She explained her own diet. Hmmm. She ate about 800-900 calories of good food a day and one or two glasses of wine. Or one glass of wine and a cookie. .

There are studies that show calorie restriction might contribute to longevity.

I know I tend to feel really healthy when I do eat 1000 calories of healthy food and greatly reduce sugar and flour. Also lose some weight. Sometimes it’s slow....but that’s life.

I guess this is sort of intuitive. It works and feels right.

I suppose we each have to do what works for us and double check with our doctors, especially if we wish to do something a little unusual. But, if you find a doctor that tells the honest to G-d truth...this is a blessing.

 

[BusynMember]

When I was pretty young I had to take Prednisone for a stomach disorder that happened after giving borth. I took it for a year. It made my face kind of chipmunk cheeky and my stomach bloated but I remember although I looked like I weighed more, I only weighed 108 lbs whoch was notna lo. .i ate normally. I looked heavier due to the bloating.

Nomad as soon as I was weaned off, the bloat went down and I started looking normal again in about two weeks. I didnt diet. The Prednosone bloat just kind of blew me up like a little balloon and went away when I.quit. People noticed and asked if I lost weight. Maybe four pounds but it looked like a lot more.

Although I have a clear memory of being a little irritated about the bloat (I.have a poor short term memory bit.always a great long term one) I.just knew I had to take it and bloat for a while. Didnt really talk about it.. I figured it would (bloat) go away when I finally got off of it.

Thats all it took. Going off of it. 108 was hardly more than my.normal weight.. i never adjusted my eating then. I was naturally thin. But obviously I looked thinner anyway after the Prednisone. In my case, my metabolism didnt change.

Maybe that will happen to you. Thats exactly what happemed to me except that that it made me very manicky and happy. It was one of tje happiest years of my youngish life at a time when I mostly got depressed. Prenisone definitely pushed me to a happy place like a magic happy pill. Does it affect your mood??

 

[Nomad]

You were lucky.
It seems to cause issues with water retention. And oddities with sugar.
I have had the “moon face.”
I always lose weight when getting off naturally. And yes, that bloat makes it look even worse.
But I gain weight absurdly easy while on prednisone and perhaps 3/4 of it sticks.
And it is particularly cruel because it increases appetite.
No doubt we are all different and much depends on dosage too.
When I’m on 2 mg it’s not nearly as much if an issue.5 mg is debatable. But even 10 mg it starts being problematic. 15 yes. 20 definitely.
When I get off of prednisone, I feel much more normal in terms of weight loss.

PS no mania for me. But when I’ve had pain I’ve appreciated the lack of pain. I’m not obese. I wear a smallish size. I suspect some folks on this medication sort of don’t try. That is not my case at all. I’m surprised that effort didn’t give me anything.

 

[Tired out]

I live by my mother's mantra (95% of the time) "Everything in moderation." Some weeks I am not moderate with exercise, sometimes I crave long, long, very long walks, runs. Sometimes chocolate too.
I don't think there is any one plan that works for everyone BUT I do think WW can be tweaked to work for anyone..
I don't think people can really compare what size they wear because even though height and weight may be the same, shape differs. Example- Elsi says she is big busted. She could be the same weight as me and I will wear a XS-S top and she will wear a lg.
I am 5'2, 126lbs (at the moment . I fluctuate between 125-132) I wear a sm, size 4 or 6 bottom depending on the cut, I have a tiny waist but bigger thighs. I wear a xs-s top depending on the sleeves and shoulders- I have bigger upper arms (lift weights- have for years, as I age they still have muscle but flab too)
That being said... 2 years ago at the same weight I wore a 6-8 on the bottom --then I started running (I have always been a walker), the bottom half changed size, tightened, trimmed, but I didn't loose weight.

 

[Elsi]

Prenisone definitely pushed me to a happy place like a magic happy bill. Does it affect your mood??

You are very lucky. Prednisone does not make me happy. It makes me ANGRY. And it makes me blow up. My emotions felt really out of control. To the point that I’d rather live with the pain.

Tired, you’re absolutely right on shape making a big difference. R and I are close to the same height and weight but look entirely different and wear different sizes. I had a similar experience when I was running. No weight loss but a lot of shape shifting.

 

[Copabanana]

At my height and weight, many if not most women are thin. They can wear size 4 or size 6. I find this incredible and highly annoying.

 

[BusynMember]

I understand the size difference/body shape. I have no boobs. In high school I wore no bra. Nobody noticed. I am very small on top but when I gain weight my butt and thighs get bigger....ugh. And the women in my family have kankels. Nothing like having kankels no matter how much you exercise or how little you weigh.

I never gained weight at all until I was put on Paroxatine for severe suicidal depressuon. The depression disappeared like magic. Lol but I did not disappear!i was starved. I went all the way up to 180 once and, remember, I am 5'0,a tad taller at the time maybe. I had never been more than about 105 before. I felt like Jabba the Hutt. My amazing husband never said a word but I really cared.

I was afraid of my depressuon. And starving on my antidepressant. I read and read about losing weight on Paxil and everything I read said you cant. And wont. Not one shred of encouragement. Just that people gained weight from being so hungry.

I was afraid I would get even bigger. Huge. I was already getting there.

But I have a couple strong traits that have always saved me. One is that I never ever give up on myself. EVER. No matter how bad things get I believe in me.

Another trait is I am so stubborn that once I make up my mind to do something, even if I am told i cant, I will do it. And this was a time.

I looked up diets and liked Atkuns at the time. I flew into it full force, never cheated (and I mean never) and even on.Paxil this diet killed my appetite Yay! I was in my early 40s and kicked up my exercise too. No Paxil would stop me. I went to tje gym. I ran. I walkef when I should have sat. I worked out six days a week. Every week.

I do not remember how low my weight got, but I lost well over 50 lbs and it took about six months because I started in the spring and was still exercising outside when I was relatively thin again. And I only exercise indoors once it gets cold.

I never again cared to or tried to get to 105 but I have gotten thin enough for people to call me "small." This is partly because I have a small frame and look thinner than some my weight. Prednosone did not affect my weight but Paxil did. Yet I would not give up a medication that wiped severe depression from my life. I still take it. I have never again had chronic depleting intractible depression. That is no life at all.

So thats my story, woth about .02