Feeling gulity


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We have a security system that calls the cops if anyone tries to break in. You need a password to get in or the monitoring call center calls your cops right away.. I thought it would really be expensive but its not. its called Simplisafe abd costs $25 a month for them to monitor it (and you dont have to take the monitor and can do it yourself, but the monitor will call the cops if anyone is there). Cost us about $200 up front but I feel very safe and just being able to see your house on it tje makesphone is easy to miss an intruder. We also have that. And we have motion lights all over the house. Lights up like sunshine if anyone passes a sensor even at midnight. Detours would be dope robbers.

Depends on how hard you want to keep people out. Our town has almost no murders but lots of drug use and as we all know drug addicts, even high school kids, break in to homes that are vulnerable. So we decided to play it safe.

But anything beats nothing and DO call the cops if anyone breaks in your house, even a loved one! No one has the right ti break into your house. It is especially horrific and a betrayal if it is one's beloved child.

I am so sorry for your angst.
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I think that your own words answers your questions as to what would happen " tell him I don't know and he gets all pissy with me." That is what will happen each time he doesnt like your answer. Do you really want to live like that walking on eggshells we used to say. As far as an allowance every week how do you think in your heart it will be spent? You have to do what you can live with but make sure it takes you and your husband's quality of life as well as his.

Snow White

Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom
Overcome - I can sure relate to how you are feeling about relinquishing your child to 'the streets'. My husband had a really hard time with that concept. In fact, only recently he again talked about paying for a place for our daughter so that we didn't have to have her in the house. No one WANTS to see their child on the street but it is THEIR actions that have put them there. My husband and I are often paralyzed - fear that something "bad" will happen to her on the streets and fear that she will destroy the house (and us) when she is in our house.

I would not let him come home. Period. If you do, where will it end? Like with us, his squatting and police twice a week?
We had some peace of mind when she was on another continent but now that she is back in the same country it is a game changer. We have ramped up our security system. After her recent visit, where she proved she is still violent and manipulative, hubby and I made a pact that she would not be allowed back in our house.

But anything beats nothing and DO call the cops if anyone breaks in your house, even a loved one! No one has the right ti break into your house. It is especially horrific and a betrayal if it is one's beloved child.
Your house should be your safe haven. SWOT is right. Call the police if anyone causes damage or breaks into your house.

I know that if I give my daughter money, that it will go directly to whatever campaign she is running at the time - financing her travels, drugs/alcohol or just not having to use her own money. Likewise, if she is given anything of value (electronics, etc.), she will either sell it or trash it when she goes into a rage.

Try to stay strong. Keep posting when you feel you are heading into the FOG.



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He is mentally ill and therefore his brain does not work the same as many people. Should I let him have the consequences of his actions if he has an illness? Is a mental illness so different than someone with Parkinson's or diabetes? Can he really control his thoughts? Sometimes I feel that I am turning my back on my sick child. I do not think that he should be able to do things against the law with no consequences hence the prison time. But I have a very hard time not giving him money when he loses a job, and has no place to live and nothing to eat. I am now retired and have some money but am not sure how long we (husband-father) will live so am worried about running out. Is saying he made his choices now he has to live with them a way out for my husband and I? I am definitely in a FOG-thoughts
Overcome Mom. When I read your posts I am reminded how much we have in common with our sons. My son I adopted too. He was drug exposed. He had ADHD as a child and was special education. He is mentally ill, and self-diagnosed as bipolar which I doubt. He has used marijuana heavily but says now he is cutting back. I don't know if your son does.

The update I want to write on this thread is this: I posted on this thread in August of last year, right after I threw my son out of a property I own, and when he was squatting in the yard, (or came to my house) I called the police repeatedly to eject him.

My viewpoint back in August was very black and white. As I read my posts, I was harsh. For maybe 6 weeks, I felt strong and firm, that I needed my son AWAY. Soon after he left my home he went homeless to an area a couple hours from us, a large metro. For 8 months he slept in his friend's pickup truck.

Then I became disconsolate. I could not bear to be out of touch with him. I could not sleep. I was in agony. Anxious and sad.

I write this because I want you to know that I commented on your thread in another kind of fog, kind of like sleep-walking.

All of the questions you ask about competency, and our expectations and their need for extra support, etc. are valid and difficult. They are not so easily addressed by kicking them out. I was at my wits end. I had been traumatized. I shut down. This is hardly a reasonable or responsible way to approach parenthood, but I could do no better at that time. I am stronger now.

So. I am finally to my point. There are services for mentally ill young people. For example, your son is still young enough for Job Corps, the federally funded jobs program that is free, provides housing, board, support, and has excellent trainings. He can apply for Vocational Rehabilitation benefits, and get free trainings through them. There are all kinds of sheltered workshops kinds of situations that our sons can do. Mentally ill people go to college.

I believe that lowering our expectations too much is wrong too. Developmentally disabled people work. People with chronic illness work. They obey laws. They keep their houses clean and they are well-dressed. They live within the law.

As far as giving money when he loses his job. If he cannot hold a job he can apply for SSI. I know they do not accept people the first try, usually, but they sometimes do. I think I read on one of your posts that you admire your son because he keeps getting jobs. Is there a way that when he is working that he could learn to set aside part of his earnings for a rainy day fund?

I don't know if your son has a driver's license. Nor do I know where he lives and what is his living arrangement when he is out of jail. Nor, am I clear about his relationship situation with his wife. All of these factors affect what would be his options for housing, and their cost, so I can't comment. But I do know that when money is gone, it is gone. And when we're old, it's hard to recoup.

In my town there are sober living houses. I don't know if they have them for couples or not. But for people without money, through the rescue mission, room and board in sober living homes are free. The only requirement is to do volunteer work. I loved the people I met at the sober living home when my son was there. There are a number of programs in my town, that house, train and counsel vulnerable adults. You do not have to impoverish yourself. I do not have to put up with my son's abuse and hostility. There are options.

Your son (like mine) is cycling. He is repeating the same mistakes every single time, because he keeps doing the same thing. Most of us are like this. We stop doing this sometimes, because we have consequences. Eventually, we learn(most of us) to not do what hurts us.

The young men on this forum who have turned their lives around, have done so, most of them, because they have chosen to participate in faith-based programs where their environments are completely turned around. This is not the only way to change, but it sure seems to work. I go to a 12 step program. The members are encouraged to attend 90 meetings in the first 90 days. I have seen significant change, (and I have experienced it, too) by this commitment. Your son could do this. I go to meetings, and I do not have a substance problem. I go because I want to change myself and my life. There is no reason that our sons could not do this too.

In close, I have to make clear that my son is back to my town and back living in the other house I own. Except we won't give him a key. It is day by day. At the end of the day, I have to stay in the game. There may be a chance, that my son is on the cusp of turning things around some. But I am afraid to go out on a limb to say. I'll let you know.

All of the best.
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Copa, Thanks so much for rereading this thread. I too went back and reread what I wrote and what the other replies were. I didn't take what you had said before as harsh just realized you have to do what you can do at the time. It seems so much has happened since I first wrote the original post but also how much things have said the same. My son is divorced from his wife, which I helped finance. I really thought she was such a bad influence on him PLUS didn't like her having legal ties to him and by extension us. He has lost at least 5- 6 more jobs and got put in jail once . He is out but has a court date in a far away state for a drug possession. Like I said- still the same although this is the first drug charge.
I have been getting better at not asking questions as once I know details I worry and obsess. So I just stopped asking. He is currently homeless and suppose to start another job soon. I don't know where he is living and didn't ask. I do send him a little money once in a while .
Thanks for all your suggestions. I did read about job corps but from what I read I don't think they would take him with his criminal record. I would love for him to apply for SSI but he won't do it at this point. I can't even get him to go to the dentist for a cleaning before he turns 26 and he has no insurance. Plus every time he gets a job he says he is going to keep it. Won't admit he has a problem. He did admit he was using after his drug bust but again swears he is not using now. Therefore would not consent to a sober living. When he got busted I asked him if he would like to go to rehab but he declined. Now says the reason he has lost all the jobs is because of sleep apnea ?? I just have this feeling he is going to end up in jail/prison again soon. He is just not ready to receive help and I can't do anything about it.
Eventually, we learn(most of us) to not do what hurts us.
This is what I pray for him but it has been 12 years and not a lot of improvement. I also pray for this for myself . I do think I have gotten better about not picking up the phone, not asking question and jumping in all the time to recuse him. I still do it but I have gotten more selective. It is funny but I do better when I am angry with him. It gives me the courage to say no and not care about how he will react.
I am do hope that things continue to improve with your son. I think that we have to look at the over all picture as they are bound to back slide we can just hope that it is not all the way back down and there is some forward projection.


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the reason he has lost all the jobs is because of sleep apnea ??
This is hilarious. I mean. Where do they get this stuff? I'm smiling here.
I just have this feeling he is going to end up in jail/prison again soon
I worked in prison and to me, this would be a kind of blessing, that is, if he's using drugs. This sometimes is the only time people get clean. In my State he could learn a trade. He could get his GED if he has not graduated. He could go to college. He could get mental health care. He could go to NA and AA. He could go to church. The thing is--he knows he could go back to prison...and he keeps doing whatever he's doing. He knows.

We cannot determine if my son is just blowing smoke, trying to give the illusion that he's trying, or it's just that he is disorganized and deludes himself. We get so confused because he confuses everything. It's disorientating. We keep throwing him out, because he breaks inviolable rules. And then we let him back. My heart is broken when he leaves. And he doesn't want to leave, really. He hates M's rules (no marijuana on the property), that he do something for himself, not trash the place..., is the thing.

So. He gets kicked out (again). And I take pity and bring him to my house because it was raining. And guess what? He hides a big bag of marijuana under some stuff in the guest bedroom, and leaves it there. I mean. How stupid is that? He has not been back for it. I cannot figure him out.

I think he did talk to M (we live separately) about getting back into the house. We are committed to work with him if he keeps moving in the right direction. But use of and having marijuana in the property, M will not tolerate.

As I write this I know I either sound inconsistent or weak. And maybe I'm both. But I have learned that hard and fast rules don't work for us. I have to give us wiggle room. He gets the opportunity to blow it. But he gets the opportunity to fix it. That's what I learned from kicking him out 9 months ago. If I had been stronger (before I kicked him out) I would have let him pay the rent, that he did not want to pay. Instead I said: Leave. And made him leave.

But who knows? Maybe I needed to do that, and needed that separation to grow stronger. And maybe he did too.

It is very paradoxical but he gets self-esteem from surviving on the streets. I vacillate between feeling horrified and thinking about cowboys sleeping under the stars (I love westerns.)

I feel good now. Last night he reached out to hold my hand. For a moment it felt like my son is back.

Thank you for this thread. I have clarified I do not want to anymore do anything dramatic. None of us want this anymore. I think we're trying to change and learn, and to find something that works. My son really, really does not want to be homeless anymore. It's just that he does not (yet) want to give up anything to maintain a normal life.
Well how did I know-- he is locked up again. He got picked up on a warrant that was issued he said for not paying a no insurance ticket. The worse part is they said he brought a cigarette in the jail. That is contraband so they are charging him with a felony. He swears he didn't have it (they found it in the cell) . He said he had money to bail out so why would he do that? He called and we had it out. I am just so frustrated it is the same old thing over and over again. He is upset over the charge for the contraband but doesn't see that if he didn't drive without insurance that none of this would be happening. He asked if he could say he will be living with us so he can get probation here and not go to prison. I told him I will not lie for him. He then said I want him to go to prison and I could stop it but chose not to. We ended up in the shouting match and with him laying on the guilt that no one cares about him and I don't either. I hate to say it but really he doesn't have anyone just his father and I. He ended up hanging up on me. I know I should have just kept calm but I am so tried of it. I just lost it. I had been doing so good listening and not say much but this time I let it go.
This jail he is in ,is in another state that is very backward. Here is a quote from their site about the food they serve.
"With rare exception, the meals consist of oatmeal for breakfast, bologna for lunch, and beans and cornbread for dinner. Meals are supplemented with fresh produce grown by and tended to by inmates in a vegetable garden area located outside the facility." That should show those mentally ill prisoners. ( approx. 20 -25 % of people in jail have mental illness). They also say the have no TV or radio. I think he needs consequence but why do they have to treat them with such distain. Hope I can hold strong. I get so worried about him, he is so depressed. I know it is his own making but still makes me very sad. And the saga continues


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I am so very sorry. There is nothing to say really to take away the hurt, anger, fear and sadness. How could you not have blown up? All that feeling with nowhere to go.
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I dont know about the jail your son is in but where my son was they have programs through the commisary where you can order food to be sent to them. I am trying to remember the name and failing at the moment but it might not be the same company there. It was not listed on the prison website my son told me about it at the time. They had you pick the foods you wanted and they shipped them to the prisoners. They had some packaged meals.
It is so frustrating for us to constantly deal with and worry about their consequences. They do not reciprocate they do not worry about us or others in our families. I like you am trying to be less responsive to his needs and more responsive to mine and my husbands and other sons. It is hard i know but it helps if i try to plan things to make me unavailable or my money. Yesterday he wanted the mom delivery service but thanks the plans i had i was out of town and could honestly say i can't. He figured it out.Don't blame yourself for blowing up sometimes it is necessay not for them but for us . Put it in the past and move on. I hope you can take this time while he is housed and fed even if it is not great to concentrate on you and your needs.
I am sad to say I know the drill about the commissary. He has been locked up so many times in so many places. Some have a better system but this state wants it to be as punitive as possible. I just put some money on his books and looked at what he can choose from and there is literally only one healthy thing and that is mackerel in a package. No vegetables or fruits, the only other meat is sausage. The rest is high fat snack food and carbohydrates. Of course outrageously priced,12% to put the money on the books and a candy bar is $1.45. I was surprised that the jail bragged on their web site that they only occasionally give them vegetables and no fruit. Seems it should be illegal to deprive them of a balance diet. He can not have food sent in from any where so he will not be eating well even if he had the money.
I spoke with him again today and we were both civil. I know when he first gets locked up he goes through withdrawals. I know for sure from cigarettes and who knows what else. Thanks triedandture , for the reminder to do something for myself. I have been trying to do that and also not think of the future problems that will come from getting locked up.