BusynMember
Well-Known Member
TiredMama, that is great. 4 and 5 were the ones I found the extra best. Thanks for posting this.
Feeling Torn, No Win Situation
- Thread starter Laker16
- Start date
Triedntrue
Well-Known Member
Glad it is of use. I liked 4 best
I hope I didn't discourage anyone by what I said about NAMI. It has been a place where we felt understood and safe. RecoveringEnabler you are right, we need to take from groups like NAMI what helps and feels right and leave the rest. I was just feeling filled with self doubt and guilt after talking to the woman who leads the group. I need to remind myself that her experiences and life are different than mine even if we do both have a mentally ill son.
Somewhereoutthere, we have never been officially told by a doctor what our son's condition is because he was in his early 20s when he was first hospitalized. We have gotten bits of information from various medical staff, and I think it may have been our son himself who mentioned bipolar. He does periodically get terribly depressed and can't seem to function on a day to day basis. Other times he is very "up" and talks about how he believes it is his calling to be like Jesus and wander the earth teaching people truths that will help them find happiness. He will do odd tai-chi type movements while you are trying to talk to him and his responses often don't make sense. He believes that these times when he is up that he is having spiritually transformative experiences, not that he has any kind of illness which might require treatment. He sent me info on this group that believes that our medical system has wrongly identified what they experience as an illness (ACISTE). I told him that I am no expert and it may be spiritual, but that it was causing him a lot of difficulties with his relationships with friends and with just being able to care for himself. He responds "the universe will take care of me, just like with Jesus who didn't worry about a job or house". When he has no place to stay he says that we are his parents and have to help him. We try to explain that this is our home, but he gets angry and yells "fine, you and dad keep your little house and I'll have the rest of the world!". I just feel like I can't communicate with him, like our brains function and reason so differently that we can't seem to understand one another. I am often troubled lately at how he tries to manipulate us through guilt and as horrible as it sounds, it feels like he says and does what he thinks will get him what he wants instead of being honest with us.
I think you are right about the medication. He has said that he doesn't like how it makes him feel. We encourage him to work with the doctors to adjust it, but I don't think he has ever tried. He just gets out of the hospital, takes the medications he feels like taking for a few days, then stops completely.
This weekend we are going to try to help him find some sort of housing in the town where he is. I have no idea how we will find something that he can afford once we stop helping (we have set a limit of time and $) or if he is even able to get a job. I'm trying not to let the worry overwhelm me, but it is a moment to moment struggle.
Do you all every just want to run away from your life because it feels unbearable?
Somewhereoutthere, we have never been officially told by a doctor what our son's condition is because he was in his early 20s when he was first hospitalized. We have gotten bits of information from various medical staff, and I think it may have been our son himself who mentioned bipolar. He does periodically get terribly depressed and can't seem to function on a day to day basis. Other times he is very "up" and talks about how he believes it is his calling to be like Jesus and wander the earth teaching people truths that will help them find happiness. He will do odd tai-chi type movements while you are trying to talk to him and his responses often don't make sense. He believes that these times when he is up that he is having spiritually transformative experiences, not that he has any kind of illness which might require treatment. He sent me info on this group that believes that our medical system has wrongly identified what they experience as an illness (ACISTE). I told him that I am no expert and it may be spiritual, but that it was causing him a lot of difficulties with his relationships with friends and with just being able to care for himself. He responds "the universe will take care of me, just like with Jesus who didn't worry about a job or house". When he has no place to stay he says that we are his parents and have to help him. We try to explain that this is our home, but he gets angry and yells "fine, you and dad keep your little house and I'll have the rest of the world!". I just feel like I can't communicate with him, like our brains function and reason so differently that we can't seem to understand one another. I am often troubled lately at how he tries to manipulate us through guilt and as horrible as it sounds, it feels like he says and does what he thinks will get him what he wants instead of being honest with us.
I think you are right about the medication. He has said that he doesn't like how it makes him feel. We encourage him to work with the doctors to adjust it, but I don't think he has ever tried. He just gets out of the hospital, takes the medications he feels like taking for a few days, then stops completely.
This weekend we are going to try to help him find some sort of housing in the town where he is. I have no idea how we will find something that he can afford once we stop helping (we have set a limit of time and $) or if he is even able to get a job. I'm trying not to let the worry overwhelm me, but it is a moment to moment struggle.
Do you all every just want to run away from your life because it feels unbearable?
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Laker you actually helped me very much. I always wondered how my family of origin could think they were normal. Maybe my insight scared them because my dad, my mother, my uncle, and my sister all had mental health issues that we're pretty severe, but they refused to get help or they didn't know they needed it. I am grateful I knew....for me, things turned around. I can't speak for them....we were separated forfdecades, minus sister. But they were not normal yet they thought they were. I am sure my sister still believes she was the "normal" one and it is not true at all.
Thank you for explaining (you and RE) that the mentally unhealthy may truly not know it. It makes my childhood and family life with DNA relatives make more sense. I think this was the biggest problem. They thought they were normal. They were clueless about their own personality disorders and other mental illnesses. So blame the one who figured out that she and the entire unit was sick. Makes sense.
Thank you for explaining (you and RE) that the mentally unhealthy may truly not know it. It makes my childhood and family life with DNA relatives make more sense. I think this was the biggest problem. They thought they were normal. They were clueless about their own personality disorders and other mental illnesses. So blame the one who figured out that she and the entire unit was sick. Makes sense.
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Hi Recoveringenabler,
Please forgive me, I just want to be sure I understand what you wrote. Do you belive it is possible for a mentally ill person who won't/can't accept that they have an illness to be independent and make some sort of a life? Do the people in your family get treatment despite not believing they are ill, or are they surviving on their own despite not getting help? I guess in my mind the only way I think our son can have a life where he has stability (shelter,food,etc.) is by managing his condition with medical help. If he doesn't get help, in my mind I could only see a future of homelessness, being unhealthy, unsafe, and alone. I'm sure that imagined future drives my desperation and is defintely the FOG you mentioned.
I'm sorry to hear that your daughter wouldn't take advantage of the government help you tried to get her. I hope that is not the case with our son. We will find out this weekend.
It is hard to have a wonderful relationship with your spouse and yet have the peace and joy ripped out of your life together by this illness. We have to do whatever we can to get them back.
Thanks again for your replies and encouragement.
Please forgive me, I just want to be sure I understand what you wrote. Do you belive it is possible for a mentally ill person who won't/can't accept that they have an illness to be independent and make some sort of a life? Do the people in your family get treatment despite not believing they are ill, or are they surviving on their own despite not getting help? I guess in my mind the only way I think our son can have a life where he has stability (shelter,food,etc.) is by managing his condition with medical help. If he doesn't get help, in my mind I could only see a future of homelessness, being unhealthy, unsafe, and alone. I'm sure that imagined future drives my desperation and is defintely the FOG you mentioned.
I'm sorry to hear that your daughter wouldn't take advantage of the government help you tried to get her. I hope that is not the case with our son. We will find out this weekend.
It is hard to have a wonderful relationship with your spouse and yet have the peace and joy ripped out of your life together by this illness. We have to do whatever we can to get them back.
Thanks again for your replies and encouragement.
Hi Laker,
Yes, I do. My response is based on my own family members, my observations over years and what I've often read on this forum. I believe it's possible, however, you know your son and what he is capable of, I don't. And, the "some sort of life" may not be something you can tolerate. For instance, my brother lived on the streets in L.A. for a number of years before my other brother and I managed to get him in a room where he's been for 2 decades. He told me that he was part of a community of homeless.
I think we often step in to help because we cannot tolerate the kind of lives our adult kids choose.
We can only do what our hearts can bear.
No, no one receives treatment. They've managed to survive and in my sister's case, thrive.
I understand your response. You may be correct, he may end up homeless, unhealthy, unsafe and alone. However, he may not. Can you live with the uncertainty? Pema Chodron's books and videos helped me to deal with that uncertainty. Books like When things fall apart, The places that scare you and Comfortable with uncertainty gave me a different perspective. For me, it helped to look into my own fears about controlling the future. Eckhart Tolle's books, The power of now and the New Earth were important resources as well.
You know your son better than anyone. If you can remove your own fears and let go of how you've responded in the past so that you can hold on to a new perspective, look closely at how your son responds to determine how much of what he does is a manipulation or a survival strategy that presumes someone else will handle what he needs to handle. Over time I began seeing that in my daughter, once my own FOG began to lift, I could see the difference in what she really could not do and what she was simply choosing not to do because she had developed strategies to get someone else to save her.
Your son may indeed be struggling with schizoaffective disorder which often has religious components to it along with delusions.... my therapist told me it is often either misdiagnosed or part of a diagnosis of bi-polar. Mental illness is very complex and difficult to diagnose. Our adult kids won't get the help they need with a diagnosis or medication compliance.....and then we are left to handle what they won't.
You are doing everything possible to help your son. Once you get the Government help going and the possible housing along with your boundary of limits on time and money......what else can you do?
Support has been the key for me. Otherwise I would live in fear and continue trying to control what I can't control. Along with all you're doing for your son, make sure you are doing for yourself as well. Shift the focus from your son to yourselves......I know that's tough when our kids are struggling, however, that simple shift of perspective will elicit in you more calm, more emotional stability and more clarity. It's very easy to remain in the hamster wheel stuck in fear...
Hang in there Laker, you're doing a good job in gaining clarity and resolve as you move thru this. One foot in front of the other.....one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time....
Yes, I do. My response is based on my own family members, my observations over years and what I've often read on this forum. I believe it's possible, however, you know your son and what he is capable of, I don't. And, the "some sort of life" may not be something you can tolerate. For instance, my brother lived on the streets in L.A. for a number of years before my other brother and I managed to get him in a room where he's been for 2 decades. He told me that he was part of a community of homeless.
I think we often step in to help because we cannot tolerate the kind of lives our adult kids choose.
We can only do what our hearts can bear.
No, no one receives treatment. They've managed to survive and in my sister's case, thrive.
I understand your response. You may be correct, he may end up homeless, unhealthy, unsafe and alone. However, he may not. Can you live with the uncertainty? Pema Chodron's books and videos helped me to deal with that uncertainty. Books like When things fall apart, The places that scare you and Comfortable with uncertainty gave me a different perspective. For me, it helped to look into my own fears about controlling the future. Eckhart Tolle's books, The power of now and the New Earth were important resources as well.
You know your son better than anyone. If you can remove your own fears and let go of how you've responded in the past so that you can hold on to a new perspective, look closely at how your son responds to determine how much of what he does is a manipulation or a survival strategy that presumes someone else will handle what he needs to handle. Over time I began seeing that in my daughter, once my own FOG began to lift, I could see the difference in what she really could not do and what she was simply choosing not to do because she had developed strategies to get someone else to save her.
Your son may indeed be struggling with schizoaffective disorder which often has religious components to it along with delusions.... my therapist told me it is often either misdiagnosed or part of a diagnosis of bi-polar. Mental illness is very complex and difficult to diagnose. Our adult kids won't get the help they need with a diagnosis or medication compliance.....and then we are left to handle what they won't.
You are doing everything possible to help your son. Once you get the Government help going and the possible housing along with your boundary of limits on time and money......what else can you do?
Support has been the key for me. Otherwise I would live in fear and continue trying to control what I can't control. Along with all you're doing for your son, make sure you are doing for yourself as well. Shift the focus from your son to yourselves......I know that's tough when our kids are struggling, however, that simple shift of perspective will elicit in you more calm, more emotional stability and more clarity. It's very easy to remain in the hamster wheel stuck in fear...
Hang in there Laker, you're doing a good job in gaining clarity and resolve as you move thru this. One foot in front of the other.....one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time....
SWOT, my family not knowing how sick they were was a major source of struggle/pain for me. I was the odd man out, able to see the behavior as strange and often cruel, but I was accustomed to it and I was a child, no one was buying my views! It took a lot of therapy for me to see that their behaviors had nothing to do with me....however, their behaviors shaped my environment and who I became, so picking it all apart, took me awhile. When both parents exhibit bizarre behavior along with most of your siblings, it's difficult for a child to be OK with their own "typical" reality, It was crazy making for me and made me doubt my own truth. Crawling out of that was extremely challenging.
You and I are truly fortunate that for whatever reason, eventually we were able to distinguish the real truth and seek help and heal.
You've done a stellar job SWOT and I know how challenging it was.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
RE, I can't thank you enough. Although I have long quit trying to analyze it, you filled in the blanks perfectly. The fact is my entire family unit, minus my brother, were all not just mean but bizarre. Some were were obviously strange like both of my parents. My grandfather was nice but odd. My grandmother loved me to death but had severe anxiety. My uncle had anxiety, an eating disorder which was obvious just looking at him and had traits of narcicism. My sister had depression, an eating disorder, attachment issues and totally overreacted off the wall with quirks like calling the cops on me all the time because of simple emails, even after I move out of state. Dare I say borderline traits? I think Mother was borderline. She certainly lived in a world of black and white and emotional dysregulation.
Re, the difference between you and I was that I had mental health issues as well and, unlike the rest of my mentally ill family, I knew and wanted to get better but could clearly see that my family members were also not right. Most were quite sick. My getting help and bringing this up to the family about our dysfunction especially angered my mother who did not have a clue that she was mentally ill. Nobody else did either. So as the only one who told he whole truth in therapy and got help, I was the bad guy. Nobody else would admit or knew he/she was sick. My sister is 57 and she still doesn't know. She thinks she is healthy although she is addicTed to a very abusive man and she abuses him right back and lies to another nice man who likes her. The nice man does not know about the one she is addicted to. But she thinks this is healthy and she is normal.
Anosognosia. What a powerful word. And my mother!!!! OMG! Is it possible that the sick can have anosognosia about each other too? It's not just our Dynamics that were odd. The members were so odd. My sister can wear a normal mask. It is fake. She keeps her real self to herself. She is not all bad but she is sick. She hides it and I bet nobody but me knows how many times she called the cops on me for "harassment" for sending her an unwanted email. She couldn't just delete it. What a drama queen and control freak. Sick.
I feel like I escaped to have a good life. I will never know but I doubt my sister will ever have my wonderful life. She is too sick to do what is best for her and she may use this nice man and marry him for security because she can not be alone. But if she does she will cheat with the abusive man. She will never get rid of him. These two sick people need each other but he will never marry her.
Anosignosia. That's it for my family of origin! Thanks for filling in the blank. I feel even more peaceful now
Re, the difference between you and I was that I had mental health issues as well and, unlike the rest of my mentally ill family, I knew and wanted to get better but could clearly see that my family members were also not right. Most were quite sick. My getting help and bringing this up to the family about our dysfunction especially angered my mother who did not have a clue that she was mentally ill. Nobody else did either. So as the only one who told he whole truth in therapy and got help, I was the bad guy. Nobody else would admit or knew he/she was sick. My sister is 57 and she still doesn't know. She thinks she is healthy although she is addicTed to a very abusive man and she abuses him right back and lies to another nice man who likes her. The nice man does not know about the one she is addicted to. But she thinks this is healthy and she is normal.
Anosognosia. What a powerful word. And my mother!!!! OMG! Is it possible that the sick can have anosognosia about each other too? It's not just our Dynamics that were odd. The members were so odd. My sister can wear a normal mask. It is fake. She keeps her real self to herself. She is not all bad but she is sick. She hides it and I bet nobody but me knows how many times she called the cops on me for "harassment" for sending her an unwanted email. She couldn't just delete it. What a drama queen and control freak. Sick.
I feel like I escaped to have a good life. I will never know but I doubt my sister will ever have my wonderful life. She is too sick to do what is best for her and she may use this nice man and marry him for security because she can not be alone. But if she does she will cheat with the abusive man. She will never get rid of him. These two sick people need each other but he will never marry her.
Anosignosia. That's it for my family of origin! Thanks for filling in the blank. I feel even more peaceful now
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That's a terrible place for you to have been in in your family, I'm really sorry you had to endure that.....however, like me SWOT, we survived and thrived, regardless of all of it....I admire you and the path you've walked......that peace you feel is born out of acceptance I believe... you've traveled far to get where you are, I'm really glad you are enjoying it all now!
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
RE, you are one of my best teachers and so kind. I feel the empath in you as a HSP. I cant thank you enough for this real gift of finally understanding. I always wondered how my DNA could not know they were sick too.
I do think you and I are lucky that we were different, you because you were not mentally ill and could see and me because I was mentally ill and could see. We had hard times but in the end our understanding won...and both of us were able to love in spite of our hard times. I think my mom, my sis, my uncle and even my brother unable to find real love. My uncle married late in life, no kids, I wonder if he loved her or just needed her. He married after his mother passed and he was abnormally attached to her at 45.
Both Sis and Uncle were terrified to be alone yet neither were good at getting emotionally close to others. Maybe that is why my sister favors an abusive man who can't love her...she claims it is too hard to cut him off. My mom got involved with a cheater in her older years, but she was less needy of a partner.
What a mentally ill mess. And I had to struggle with a mood disorder too, but I will forever be glad that I knew.
Thank you again. I truly think I get it now. You are the best, RE. I bet you still love your family. I forgive mine all, especially now that I realize they all lacked insight into being sick. I even forgive my sister. I do not think she knows how demented it was to use the police for a call or email she could have just ignored. Or how loving an abuser is not normal. Or how cutting a sister off ten times but always coming back is sick. In her mind nodoubt she acted normal and I deserved it all. So I forgive her, but I can't risk ever speaking to her again because I need her to understand how wrong three decades of cop calling was or she will do it again and I am 64 and done with that. I will sadly need to take out a restraining order if she ever contacts me again. With Dad in spirit, there is no need for us to ever speak again.
Did I ever act mentally ill? Yes, under pressure. I AM mentally I'll. But I know when I was wrong. My sister does not. I can't deal with cops and abusive boyfriend again...I am Codependent and want her to leave him forever and she never will and I can't control it and I also don't need to listen to it and I am babbling to much and thanks again have a peaceful night. Time for a nice meditation to calm my soul. Good night.
I do think you and I are lucky that we were different, you because you were not mentally ill and could see and me because I was mentally ill and could see. We had hard times but in the end our understanding won...and both of us were able to love in spite of our hard times. I think my mom, my sis, my uncle and even my brother unable to find real love. My uncle married late in life, no kids, I wonder if he loved her or just needed her. He married after his mother passed and he was abnormally attached to her at 45.
Both Sis and Uncle were terrified to be alone yet neither were good at getting emotionally close to others. Maybe that is why my sister favors an abusive man who can't love her...she claims it is too hard to cut him off. My mom got involved with a cheater in her older years, but she was less needy of a partner.
What a mentally ill mess. And I had to struggle with a mood disorder too, but I will forever be glad that I knew.
Thank you again. I truly think I get it now. You are the best, RE. I bet you still love your family. I forgive mine all, especially now that I realize they all lacked insight into being sick. I even forgive my sister. I do not think she knows how demented it was to use the police for a call or email she could have just ignored. Or how loving an abuser is not normal. Or how cutting a sister off ten times but always coming back is sick. In her mind nodoubt she acted normal and I deserved it all. So I forgive her, but I can't risk ever speaking to her again because I need her to understand how wrong three decades of cop calling was or she will do it again and I am 64 and done with that. I will sadly need to take out a restraining order if she ever contacts me again. With Dad in spirit, there is no need for us to ever speak again.
Did I ever act mentally ill? Yes, under pressure. I AM mentally I'll. But I know when I was wrong. My sister does not. I can't deal with cops and abusive boyfriend again...I am Codependent and want her to leave him forever and she never will and I can't control it and I also don't need to listen to it and I am babbling to much and thanks again
have a peaceful night. Time for a nice meditation to calm my soul. Good night.
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Laker, the woman who leads your NAMI group sounds like she is a few bats short of a belfry. I know the woman who leads the NAMI Bipolar and Mood Disorder Support groups here in our country and she is amazing. Ah. May. Zing. I have known her for 3 decades, long before she even knew her daughter and son had mood disorders, and she would NEVER tell you that you need to figure out how to get power of attorney over your son's medical decisions. I cannot even fathom those words coming out of her mouth. I know her well on many levels. She just would not ever suggest that to anyone. It is such an intrusive thing to ever even imply. I know she hasn't even done that for her own children.
Your home is your safe space. YOUR SAFE SPACE. It is NOT your son's space. He is an adult and regardless of his other choices or his mental challenges or problems, it is NEVER his option to tell you what to do with your home. It was his home as a MINOR. Once he became an adult, it was his responsibility to create his own home. If he is so handicapped that he cannot support himself, he needs to apply for disability and get help from the government so that he can live on his own.
It is NEVER his RIGHT to just move back into your home. It isn't OK for him to make you uncomfortable or unsafe in your own home. He is old enough to get a J.O.B. and earn some m-o-n-e-y to support himself. If he cannot do that, he has options other than to sponge off of his parents. He can be homeless, he can live in shelters, he can apply for disability if he is disabled. He truly may be disabled. I honestly believe that. If so, he can apply for and get disability. It may require time and the help of a good lawyer, but it can be done. He may require supported housing. If he refuses this, that is his right.
Refusing help does NOT mean he can then demand that Mom and Dad allow him to take over the family home and make them miserable. Who is helped by that? If he moves home, he might be happy, but Mom and Dad are miserable. That isn't right. You worked for too long, and worked too hard, to let anyone move in and make you miserable.
Being mentally ill does not mean you abdicate personal responsibility. Listen to SWOT. She understands it. Part of what we did with my oldest was insist that first he be a good person. Not that he read or write or do math problems, but that he be a good person. The academic stuff was secondary. It was one big reason we homeschooled him at some points in his education. The teacher was fine, but the overall atmosphere was such that it was survival of the fittest. That was NOT the lesson we wanted him to learn. As someone with autism, it would be driven home very clearly that being mean got you what you wanted. We could not afford that lesson when he had 2 younger siblings. We could afford to homeschool him until we moved to a better school system, one more in line with our values and less "Watership Down".
Your home is your safe space. YOUR SAFE SPACE. It is NOT your son's space. He is an adult and regardless of his other choices or his mental challenges or problems, it is NEVER his option to tell you what to do with your home. It was his home as a MINOR. Once he became an adult, it was his responsibility to create his own home. If he is so handicapped that he cannot support himself, he needs to apply for disability and get help from the government so that he can live on his own.
It is NEVER his RIGHT to just move back into your home. It isn't OK for him to make you uncomfortable or unsafe in your own home. He is old enough to get a J.O.B. and earn some m-o-n-e-y to support himself. If he cannot do that, he has options other than to sponge off of his parents. He can be homeless, he can live in shelters, he can apply for disability if he is disabled. He truly may be disabled. I honestly believe that. If so, he can apply for and get disability. It may require time and the help of a good lawyer, but it can be done. He may require supported housing. If he refuses this, that is his right.
Refusing help does NOT mean he can then demand that Mom and Dad allow him to take over the family home and make them miserable. Who is helped by that? If he moves home, he might be happy, but Mom and Dad are miserable. That isn't right. You worked for too long, and worked too hard, to let anyone move in and make you miserable.
Being mentally ill does not mean you abdicate personal responsibility. Listen to SWOT. She understands it. Part of what we did with my oldest was insist that first he be a good person. Not that he read or write or do math problems, but that he be a good person. The academic stuff was secondary. It was one big reason we homeschooled him at some points in his education. The teacher was fine, but the overall atmosphere was such that it was survival of the fittest. That was NOT the lesson we wanted him to learn. As someone with autism, it would be driven home very clearly that being mean got you what you wanted. We could not afford that lesson when he had 2 younger siblings. We could afford to homeschool him until we moved to a better school system, one more in line with our values and less "Watership Down".
Recoveringenabler,
Thank you for clarifying for me. I think what you said about not being able to tolerate the consequences of son's choices is indeed a big part of what drives me to feel we need to take him back home and care for him, even though it has never worked when we've done it in the past.
You mentioned that I know him best, and the boy I knew was smart and capable. However I don't feel like he is that person anymore and I don't really know him at this point. That probably contributes to the uncertainty.
Thank you for continuing to remind me that we need to try to care for ourselves. I know it is true, but it is easy to forget when things are chaotic.
Thank you for clarifying for me. I think what you said about not being able to tolerate the consequences of son's choices is indeed a big part of what drives me to feel we need to take him back home and care for him, even though it has never worked when we've done it in the past.
You mentioned that I know him best, and the boy I knew was smart and capable. However I don't feel like he is that person anymore and I don't really know him at this point. That probably contributes to the uncertainty.
Thank you for continuing to remind me that we need to try to care for ourselves. I know it is true, but it is easy to forget when things are chaotic.
Hi Susiestar,
Thank you so much for your encouraging words. Apparently it is common amongst our NAMI group for parents to to get guardianship of their adult children to control their medication/medical decisions and their finances. I don't want that control over his life, but they were saying that even if I get SSI for him that he won't be capable of managing his money and will need us to be in charge of it.
I agree, being a good person is important. We tried to instill that in both our kids. I don't think our son is bad, but he seems at time not to see how he affects us....I just don't know.
I do appreciate your message of support, thank you.
Thank you so much for your encouraging words. Apparently it is common amongst our NAMI group for parents to to get guardianship of their adult children to control their medication/medical decisions and their finances. I don't want that control over his life, but they were saying that even if I get SSI for him that he won't be capable of managing his money and will need us to be in charge of it.
I agree, being a good person is important. We tried to instill that in both our kids. I don't think our son is bad, but he seems at time not to see how he affects us....I just don't know.
I do appreciate your message of support, thank you.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Don't feel bad. Guardianship is legal a d hard to get if the adult doesn't have a doctor's note that endorses it and the adult is against it. You can't get SSI either. He has to do it.
Most guardianship is for cognitively different adults. My son has autism and I had guardianship for years. Then he didn't want me to be his guardian anymore and we went to court and his case manager said he didn't need a guardian so the judge agreed. I did not really fight it because he tries hard and I never did tell him what to do. Even if you are a guardian, you can't make them do what you want if they don't want to. And you need a clear cut diagnosis that says the adult is incapable of taking care of himself. Not that he won't. That he can't. It's not easy to get it. It could be that the kids of those who have guardianship are not capable of caring for themselves....you don't know their stories.
I think it's smart not to fight your son over it...you probably would lose and he would be even angrier. My son wanted me to be his guardian when I was. He has no guardian now but has a payee. That is easier to get. I know a lot of mentally ill people glad to have payees. I don't know how to go about getting one. My son is fine with a payee and just did the guardian/payee from high school. So it was easy. One court trip and done. He had records from birth. That's important too.
Most guardianship is for cognitively different adults. My son has autism and I had guardianship for years. Then he didn't want me to be his guardian anymore and we went to court and his case manager said he didn't need a guardian so the judge agreed. I did not really fight it because he tries hard and I never did tell him what to do. Even if you are a guardian, you can't make them do what you want if they don't want to. And you need a clear cut diagnosis that says the adult is incapable of taking care of himself. Not that he won't. That he can't. It's not easy to get it. It could be that the kids of those who have guardianship are not capable of caring for themselves....you don't know their stories.
I think it's smart not to fight your son over it...you probably would lose and he would be even angrier. My son wanted me to be his guardian when I was. He has no guardian now but has a payee. That is easier to get. I know a lot of mentally ill people glad to have payees. I don't know how to go about getting one. My son is fine with a payee and just did the guardian/payee from high school. So it was easy. One court trip and done. He had records from birth. That's important too.
Thanks for sharing your experience and the info on guardianship vs having a payee. Our son has lived on his own at points in the past and I don't see why he would require a guardian if he continues the treatment they started him on in the hospital. If he decides to stop treatment then you are probably right that we couldn't force compliance. Knowing him as I do, I seriously doubt that he'd want us to have that level of control over his life (real or perceived) anyway. One woman in our NAMI group did say that her son wanted her to have guardianship, so it definitely depends on each person's own situation.
As far as SSI, I started the process and he signed the paper to release info to them. I'll do what parts of the process I can just for myself as it feels like it gives me something constructive I can do. Once the ball is in his court I can tell myself I did what I could to help & then be able to hopefully let it go.
As far as SSI, I started the process and he signed the paper to release info to them. I'll do what parts of the process I can just for myself as it feels like it gives me something constructive I can do. Once the ball is in his court I can tell myself I did what I could to help & then be able to hopefully let it go.
MBTREEVES99
New Member
This sounds like my brother who is 34, and is currently just now out of jail. Several psychotic episodes and a few depressive. Diagnoses bipolar. But has terrible episodes of mania. My mother has passed on and dad is remarried and not helping, due to burn out in the past 13 years with this. Thanks for your story. I am just emotionally exhausted and dont have any answers. He is staying in a motel (i paid for) to get through end of year. After that, i just dont know. He wont take medications, states thats why he "goes off" due to medications. Ha. Just soul weary and tired.
elizabrary
Well-Known Member
Part of being a parent is getting our children to be as independent as they are able to be. There are many resources available for adults with mental illness that can help your son. The hospital should be putting aftercare resources in place for him. Whether he takes advantage of it is another question. I'm guessing that if he takes his medications he can live a relatively normal life- work, friendships, etc. The catch-22 with these situations is that people frequently decide they don't need their medications anymore and the cycle starts all over again. As an adult it is up to your son to decide to stay medicated. That being said, if he can start to live an independent life you may be able to build a new relationship with him where you are more of a support system than a caretaker. I think as he becomes confident with living on his own your role can change and you can have a less contentious relationship with him. You will enjoy spending time together occasionally, going out for a meal or having friendly phone chats, and he will know you are there if he has a crisis. I also think with a little distance and time on his own he will be more receptive to you calling and mentioning (not every time you talk, but once in awhile) you hope he's still medication compliant. I know this is a difficult situation. Sending peace to you.
Triedntrue
Well-Known Member
I am confused these replies were made to posts from Feb.
MBTREEVEES99 & elizabrary, you've responded to an old thread from Feb. 2018......if you'd like more feedback, you might try starting your own thread, you'll receive more support that way.
Glad you're here with us.
Glad you're here with us.
