For those watching the Casey A. trial.....

1905

Well-Known Member
But there was chlorofom in the trunk, with the hair of a dead person,she was put in trashbags, with duct tape and a heart sticker, left there to rot until the car smelled so bad she had to borrow the shovel from the neighbor and abandon the whole car. George would have totally rather have charged with child negligence than murder 1, so he wouldn't have hid her, and if so..he'd have hidden the body better than that trunk.

Cindy lied before when the cops wanted someone's hairbrush and she purposely gave the wrong one, do you remember that? It was so long ago. I heard all this on Nancy Grace, they also had a body language expert talk about Cindy's testimony. The normal person has 60-80% eye contact. Cindy stared down people questioning her, and was way over that amount---a huge red flag from the body language person. Any sympathy that anyone had for her is gone.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
When I look back on todaynow I don't see any testimony today changed anything but it sure felt like it while watching it. I do think it just confused everyone and may be the testimony they need to keep her from being convicted of first degree murder. All they need is reasonable doubt and this family sure did try to provide that.

Nancy
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
all we now have left to believe is the flimsy evidence of the prosecution and Im not so sure I believe it all anymore. I am beginning to believe it was a giant cover up by the entire Anthony family to make the police run off in circles and then bury the baby in the woods and attempt to make it look like a kidnapping. I think the big problem came in when the towing company called them too early. casey left the car in the wrong place.
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
I suspect the real challenge for the jury will be to judge the case purely on the basis of the evidence. Their overwhelming desire will, presumably, be to find Casey guilty - like everyone else. Even if they are not being exposed to all the media hype about the case, they will have heard enough of it before the trial started to form their own views. I feel the desire to convict her may override their objectivity.
But I have never served on a jury. Does a juror have to justify his/her decisions with reasons based on the evidence?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Malika I hope that doesn't happen. Great care is taken to choose jurors who have not heard anything about the crime and/or have not formed any opinions about it and they take an oath to listen to all of the testimony and be fair and open in their deliberations. My husband has said he has found almost all jurors take this very seriously and do follow the law/judges orders. Although it doesn't always turn out the way he hoped they take their responsibility seriously and do decide on the evidence.

I'm not as worried as you are Janet. I have faith in this jury (I know I know, I also had faith in OJ's). After describing everything that happened to husband last night he said he doesn't find anything that changes anything and in fact feels there is evidence to support perjury charges against cindy. Let's just wait to see what today and next week brings. I think the rebuttal and closing arguments will help put it into perspective.

Nancy
 

klmno

Active Member
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to think all this emotional testimony from the family could back-fire. It shows how much they love Casey and how dysfunctional the family is. If they love her that much and go to lengths of lying for her to try to keep her from a harsher sentence, but they aren't taking the blame for her or actually coming up with any evidence that someone else did this, then maybe the jury sees this and concludes that Casey MUST be guilty. The family obviously loves her enough that IF there had been a cover-up, they would be coming up with some way to justify the cover-up now so they could get Casey off. They aren't doing that, although I'm not so sure George won't before this is all over.

I'm only speculating of course, because after OJ...who knows what a jury will decide....I'm just thinking there is another way to add all this up but we'll see what happens by the end of the trial. I wouldn't be shocked now if some bombshell didn't come out during sentencing at this point, either.
 
H

HaoZi

Guest
One of the issues in the OJ trial was how the evidence was handled (chain of custody issues, processing errors, preserving errors, etc) and evidence that contradicted itself. Here you have physical evidence on one side that the defense really hasn't been able to touch, vs emotional and obvious desperate family saying otherwise but providing nothing other words.
So we recap the facts:
Caylee was not reported missing by her mother, but by her grandmother, as heard on the 911 call.
Caylee's body, with duct tape, was found buried in the woods in a bag.
Casey likely couldn't tell the truth to save her own life - and here that might be exactly the case.
During the time that Caylee was missing, Casey was happily living life in the fast lane. She had removed herself from immediate family that would have noticed quickly that Caylee was missing.

Suppositions:
In most cases where a child dies accidentally at the hands of family and the body is hidden, there is evidence of remorse. A proper (though hidden) burial, often with a shroud of some type. Generally the face, if covered, is covered with cloth (like the shroud), not duct tape. A story would have been come up with to explain the child's disappearance, like a distant relative or (if she hadn't already claimed he was dead) that Caylee's father had taken her.
Cindy's testimony flies in the face of her 911 call. If you were trying to help someone cover up an accidental death, and you'd had a month to think about it, I'm sure you'd come up with a better story and not sound as panicked (or sound too panicked).

Now, while cause can't be established, manner of death was ruled as homicide. To me, not one of the defense's expert witnesses (I'll use that term loosely right now) has been able to controvert that effectively enough to have manner changed to accidental. They've run around in circles trying to confuse things without actually saying much of anything. It's like watching a political debate, a whole lot of wind with minimal substance.

Do I trust the cadaver dogs? Yup. I know they're not infallible, but they're pretty good, and I have no reason in this case to suspect they're wrong. Trunk, playhouse, burial site (correct me if I'm wrong, I think those are the places). Body in trunk, moved to in or near the playhouse while she's digging the grave in the woods and cleaning the trunk. By this point decomp has set in and that leaked into the dirt there. Trunk, you're talking escaping gases and liquids that would be in nooks and crannies (has it been established that the trunk liner is the original one or a replacement?) that can't be seen or maybe even gotten to, but the smell is there to the dogs. Maybe the body was on a bag in the trunk (hence nothing on the carpet but enough gas trapped in small spaces for the dogs). I do wonder at what point the body was placed inside a bag.

So anyway, that's kind of an overview of my take. I'll take well established physical evidence over personal testimony, and in this case I certainly have more reason to trust the evidence.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
None of you responded to my earlier question and I really want to know. Didn't Cindy state on the stand that she had told the Orlando PD and the State's Attorney's office about the computer search near the beginning of her testimony? I wouldn't bet my life on it but then again I doubt I dreamed her statement up. IF she told them (evidently not in her deposition) then it would indicate to me that they withheld information. Even if they didn't believe her...if she said so before then she is repeating what she stated earlier not bombshelling.

The part of the testimony about finding the ladder attached, being alarmed, and sharing her concerns with her coworkers is not new. I have read it (and or heard it) since 2008. Therefore I don't see that as dropping a bomb either. (In Fl we have had coverage and conjecture for three years.)

Lee's behavior was odd. on the other hand all of us behave differently when we are in the presence of authority figures. Even with no personal emotions I got butterflies when I was deposed and sat if Court representing abused and neglected children. There is alot of stress on everyone involved in court actions. Also...on a weekly basis we have CD members who post saying "it's getting to me" "I can't stop crying" etc. due to the accumulation of stress from difficult child living. The Anthony family has been on an extreme rollercoaster ride for three years. Alot of us also have experienced grief and been surprised that we didn't cry until months or years later. I don't believe Lee was acting or pretend crying.

Once again, I personally do not believe Casey is innocent of all charges. on the other hand, the coverage is highly based on the presumption of guilt and I get a bit shocked that the commentators accept and support every witness of the S.A. and then presume to judge the validity of every expert and witness for the defense. Thank heavens the Juror's are not watching television because the case would have ended before the Defense had a turn. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
DDD, I'll fill you in on what I heard about Cindy's testimony but I'm sure I didn't catch all of it. She did say she had told that she searched for chlorophyll and that led to a search for chloroform and she had said that in her deposition early on. The cross brought out (if I have this correct) that Cindy had indeed told them that however, she had said she would not have searched 80-some times for it and that Cindy had spelled chloroform or chlorophyll (don't remember which) for the lady taking the deposition and Cindy said in both her testimony this week and in her previous statements specifically that she never typed in a search on how to make chloroform. Also, she never searched for neck breaking. She said that popped up on it's own related to a search about skateboarding accidents, or something like that.

Now, the computer expert testified that evidence showed searches for neck breaking and specifically "how to make chloroform" was typed in and a deliberate search made. Therefore many are concluding that this contradicts Cindy's statements so there had to be more to the searches than Cindy is testifying to.

As far as the presumption of innocence, I agree to a certain extent and there's no reason to believe that the jury members aren't doing this, this is why the judge sequesters them and as you know, it's not uncommon to sequester so they can't be exposed to media and public speculation. But if all people were going to believe 100% that a person is innocent, that would also require beleiving that no policeman should ever arrest anyone who they didn't catch in the act of committing a crime. Do we really think every person the police arrest is innocent until a jury or judge finds them guilty? No. But we can still hold the burden of proof on the "state" to show there is evidence to find a person guilty before convicting them and I do think this is happening. Being a citizen who's not on the jury and giving my opinions doesn't meant I, or anyone, still doesn't want a fair trial. An example for me personally- I believe OJ was guiltier than sin but I think the prosecution botched it and the jury, whether they felt he was guilty or not, did not believe the prosecution proved that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I think in that case, the prosecution's expert witnesses put doubt into their own case. I think this happened because that prosecution went too far out there trying to prove OJ would be found guilty instead of sticking to the evidence and reasonable presummptions that tied OJ to the crime.

These prosecutors (on Casey's case) seem to be sticking to the things that most reasonable people would find as linking Casey to the crime so I think they are doing a much better job. Take the things Dr. G said as an example. The defense on the other hand is throwing out theories that, in my humble opinion, seem to be a stretch of my imagination with only emotional family members saying "this is a possibility" to support it. That doesn't mean I think the prosecution has yet proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey is guilty of first degree murder. I do think if I was sitting on the jury, I would be thinking the prosecution has proven guilt of something more than just lying to police (no brainer on that one at this point) but would be listening intently from here on out to decide what exactly Casey is guilty of, which charge(s) IAW the testimony to come and the judge's final instructions and legal definitions. Still, people here are going to toss out what they tend to think right now as far as an opnion on whether or not they tend to think she is guilty of first degree.

I guess I've gotten off my point- I'm just trying to say that a jury can believe a person is probably guilty however, still hold a bar that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt before finding a person guilty in our judicial system. OJ's case proves that this can happen. Those not on the jury can sit here and say "yes I believe Casey is guilty" and that doesn't effect a sequestered jury or mean that we think they ought to throw out our judicial processes.

I feel certain jury members form a tentative opinion as they weigh each day's testimony but they aren't allowed to throw each of those thoughts out instead of waiting until the end of the trial to give their final opinion. Those of us not on the jury can and do and change our opinions as we hear more and see more.
 
Last edited:

Marcie Mac

Just Plain Ole Tired
She did say about the computer searches that she told them, but has not been cross examined yet. I don't think she has a problem in perjuring herself - as long as what she is throwing against the wall, true or not, manages to stick in the mind of the jury. Honestly the testamony about the dogs and bamboo, horsepucky. I hope the prosacution pulls those records and looks to see if the word bamboo comes up on a google search - bet not.

I think Baez and the family has had plenty of time to come up with a strategy come court time, and its becomming obvious its a doozy of one. Does he care about sanctions -I don't think so -obvious from the way he is behaving in court. He probably has a book deal (in conjunction with the family) -probably why Cindy is back there furiously scribbling notes.

As to the brother, he is in on the attorneys plan- I am going to look at that funeral service video.
 

klmno

Active Member
I think Baez is using timing as a strategy to the point that it's ridiculous. Whatever issue came up this morning, they could have brought up yesterday evening while all were there (except the jury) going over which witnesses would be allowed, then this morning Baez tried to get another on that he knew would be in question by the prosecution. Don't they seem to do this almost every Sat. after the judge has insisted trial will continue on Sat? I think Baez is trying to back the judge into a situation where he either will let Baez put his questionable witness on in order to stick to his guns about the trial continuing, or they're going to get Sat. off after all.

But one of the attnys or the judge has apparently crossed the line of threats to sanction, or contempt, or filing for a mistrial with a higher court or something this morning. I noticed Casey crying this morning, too. Surely if she's decided to "admit" 1/10th of the charges that wouldn't be enough for the prosecutors to agree to a plea deal, given her credibility issues???? The ONLY time I think Casey was genuinely crying was during Lee's testimony- that gives the jury something to campare to her previous tears, too. Just throwing random thoughts out...
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
My guess is that the Prosecution by not sharing the Crunk cell records could be in deep doo doo, too. Weird. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
It could be. When the tv still had the courtroom on air and the attnys were meeting with the judge in chambers, one commentator said someone in the courtroom said they thought they heard one of the attnys (I don't remember which one) raising their voice quite a bit in the chambers. Something happened- I tend to think it was more than the Krunk (sp) records, but I don't know- the thing is that unless there is real evidence that the prosecution tried to withold something, I can't see the judge delaying the trial this weekend. I'm only speculating that because the judge has let things go on when Baez did questionable things several times. Now, if the judge finally decided to deal with an issue with one of the attnys because it had gone too far, yes, that's a very real possibility, in my humble opinion.
 

klmno

Active Member
Who cries more over their grown bro crying because his feelings were hurt than they do over their child being dead or seeing the skull of their dead child??
 

Marcie Mac

Just Plain Ole Tired
I agree, but WHY did they all meet up with Casey in the jail cell, and she came out upset and crying?? Could it be that they are going to do a mis-trial and the whole thing will start over again?
 

klmno

Active Member
From what the commentators are saying about the law (I personally have no idea), if it's a mistrial because the prosecution deliberately witheld evidence, then it doesn't go back to trial and she walks. So while that might be in question and why the judge set them off this weekend, Casey wouldn't be crying. If, on the other hand, the defense team is getting off the case, that might start the whole thing over and given the previous speculation that Casey got too "close" or attracted to Jose, that possibly could make her cry, I don't know.

With most defendants in a case like this, I would speculate that perhaps Casey asked to speak to Jose first thing this morning and she has decided to tell something. Maybe Casey still did that but I don't know that it if she did, whatever the story is now, will be the truth either. I didn't hear if it was Casey or Jose who requested that they meet prior to trial this morning, only that Jose went to meet her and was waiting for them to bring her out. I did hear that George was carrying a Bible with him yesterday and had a handful of papers with him this morning. Also, that there were about 8 witnesses there ready to testify this morning. It's something major or else the judge would have let the testimony continue today and dealt with this matter later today or Monday before or after court, as he's been trying to do.

Out of these possibilities- mistrial being considered, one or both attnys being in big doo-doo, Casey coming up with yet another story, an issue with a witness, or George or Cindy (or possible connection to whatever Lee went and told Jose last week that he overheard from his parents), in my humble opinion, any are possible.

The trial is verging on being out of control just simply because there's constantly an issue between the attnys; Baez has done his share of pushing the law and judge's orders and I think I heard Ashton file for sanctions against Baez, and then there's a possibility the prosecution witheld evidence, and it's possible the judge just finally hit his limit about all the accusations from the attnys holding the trial up; it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Casey suddenly came up with another story so beleivable or not, it would have to be dealt with; George may have decided to take the heat to save Casey or Lee really might have told Baez he heard something that Baez considers a bombshell.

When the judge dismissed them this morning and said that both parties were in agreement, then he asked that for the record, I suppose, and one of the attnys said "we might as well"....does anyone know which attny said that? The prosecution or the defense? Whichever one it was, my guess is that they weren't the ones initiating this and that might give us a hint. Other questions I have that maybe someone here can answer: Who asked that the discussion take place in chambers to begin with? And, could this possibly have transpired this way if the issue is that the prosecution came in with evidence that Cindy (or Lee) perjured herself and he wants that brought out to the jury?
 
Last edited:

Nancy

Well-Known Member
I was watching and it was Mason that asked for the sidebar that resulted in the conference in judges chambers. I believe Mason knows that there has been perjured testimony and has an ethical problem. There is a rift between mason and baez. Mason cannot allow testimony to occur that he believes is false.

Commentators sd only defense and defendant went in chambers but when watching replay it looked like prosecutor did too. Anyone else see that.

I believe its a rift between attys or plea deal. Anything to do with witnesses would have been held in court not chambers.

Nancy
 

klmno

Active Member
Thanks, Nancy- that helps. Yes, it's my understanding that both attnys - or I should say, attnys from both sides, went into chambers with the judge. I also heard about friction between Mason and Baez and wondered why the commentators were bringing that up but your theory would explain that.

Any idea which attny the judge asked this morning, after coming out of chambers, if they were in agreement with recessing until Mon and he/she responded with "we might as well"?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Also if this had anything to do with witnesses they would have stayed in court and worked on it. This is something that has caused the trial to stop. Depositions were set for today after court. Would love to know if they are going forward.

Nancy
 
Top