For those watching the Casey A. trial.....

[DammitJanet]

Im liking them less and less...and I didnt like them at all before. Jose is a (bad word)!

Oh...several points.

The bug guy: Smelling the trunk two years later and it still smelled. Point for the prosecution.

Idiot bug guy. No way in hades that tobacco spit brings maggots or smells like a dead body. Im sorry. Tony chewed tobacco for almost the entire time we have been together. He stopped about 8 months ago or so. Trust me, we have had spit or cups or bottles with spit in them around the house for years. Never have we had maggots or anything that smelled like death. He has left packs of chewing tobacco in the car and they havent smelled like death. Its stupid. They dont bring flies. I know this. It would be like saying my ashtray draws flies. Nope. Actually, they tell you to chew tobacco and put it on a bee sting!

Oh I want to strangle stupid people!

 

[HaoZi]

I was reading what defense's bug guy said, and even not being an entomologist (just some basic knowledge of decomp) even I knew the defense was on shaky ground with him. I can't wait to see what happened on cross now!

I have to wonder if the jury is as tired of Baez's antics as we are.

Research indicates that juries make decisions based more firmly on their values, beliefs, and experiences than on the case facts...Essentially Scheck offered one simple finding from psychological research: People transform testimony into a story that makes sense to them. They build a narrative and absorb all subsequent information into it, so the key to winning a case is to tell a compelling story.
-Katherine Ramsland, The C.S.I. Effect

Now, let me think which attorney is currently doing the better job of that...

 

[klmno]

I agree- it proves to the public the 1) the defense is grasping at straws and 2) they aren't thourough- they got the phone records, ran a check, found out the current number belongs to a man with a previous felony kidnapping charge and automatically called him in as a bombshell witness. The guy did the right thing- and look at how George had already said he didn't know the guy and didn't remember talking to him and this guy is now saying he doesn't know George except from this case on tv but thew bigger point is that he didn't have that phone number back then. That would prove how desparate and far-reaching the defense is- except I bet they don't call him to testify now so the jury will not know this until after the trial.

 

[DammitJanet]

I think he wanted to tell a compelling story but the fact is he has to now at least attempt to prove that story. He cant just make up that story out of thin air. If he can, well, I swear, I am going to tell Cory to never ever plead guilty to another thing again in his life. He needs to go in on the "my parents abused me" defense.

 

[klmno]

You know DJ, I was thinking about it today- pedophiles get way too lenient sentences in my humble opinion BUT they do get found guilty even when/if they were abused themselves as kids. So I don't find the fact that (IF) Casey was abused, it gets her off. To me, it would bring additional charges- for George or Lee or whomever- but it wouldn't set Casey free from her part. However, I really don't believe that Caylee died by accident, whether Casey was ever abused or not.

And about this "surprise witenss" - first - the surprise appears to be on the defense! Second- it really hoovers that if this guy has been living a crime-free normal life since paying his debt to society, it really hoovers that he now has to be spread all over the media due to this. I wonder if he could sue the defense team after all this is over and he has proven he didn't even have that phone number. I realize that a felony conviction on an adult is probably public record but come on, to try to connect him to this case when he didn't even have that phone number (assuming that gets proven) so that appears to be bordering defamation of character to me. And think about it- this guy could have used this for a 15 mins of fame, but is really just trying to disassociate himself from the entire trial and stay out of it and clear his name. His attny sounded more like he was backing the prosecution! I can't see the defense putting him on now- it would turn out to be an embaressment for them.

The people in Fl are getting pretty whacky about this seeing this case in person- actually, I heard on the news that people were flying in from as far as Cali to attend the trial. I could never go that far!!

 

[DammitJanet]

I saw the brawl on In Session earlier today. Yeah...wow. They are coming in from all over the world actually to see this trial. Our legal system is quite unique you know so people do want to see it. While not perfect, better than most. I think the courthouse has finally come to their senses and figured out how to deal with the people wanting to watch the trial, they are issuing tickets.

 

[klmno]

They said on tv that one of the charges in aggravated child abuse (true???) and if she's found guilty of that, she could get 30 years. I hope if she's ever free again that she's past the age of child-bearing ability.

 

[Nancy]

I feel sorry for the ex con and I hope he sues. I wish the defense would call him to the stand but obviously they won't now. I would love the jury to know that they didn't even check when this guy got the phone number. Evidently this guy has been married to a teacher and living a lawful life since his release. Not to excuse what he did but if this is correct the kidnapping stemmed from a domestic dispute with his ex girlfriend and at the time he did not have the funds to hire an attorney and got a bad deal. There are many people charged with kidnapping, anytime you rob someone that charge is tacked on, anytime there is a domestic abuse charge that is tagged on. It doesn't mean someone kidnapped a child and murdered them. It means someone deprived someone of their liberty. I'm not excusing it but it isn't what the defense had us believe. Also the real Zanny lady is suing and I'm glad. Casey has dragged so many people down including her family.

I am surprised that the state did not object to the defense expert's science experiment with pigs. It wasn't relevant and should never have been admitted into evidence. I don't think this expert will be asked to testify in too many future trials. The state would never call him and no defense attorney would now either.

Nancy

 

[donna723]

I saw that brawl among the (potential) spectators - what idiots! I'm surprised that none of them were charged with assault! And the funny thing about it is, once they got in there, there were five of them kicked out for falling asleep in court!

 

[HaoZi]

I am surprised that the state did not object to the defense expert's science experiment with pigs.

It's standard practice to use pigs, they're very close to human in terms of physiology - that's why insulin from them was compatible. Their muscle structure, joint structure, rate of decomp, etc. is very close to ours.

 

[Marcie Mac]

If nothing else, this trial is making me think - After seeing that photo of the dead pig and the black goo, had to research that myself because I thought leaking was possible before got to goo stage, and sure enough http://www.ehow.com/info_8564317_10-visible-signs-decay.html - no one brought up that black goo stuff happened 10 to 20 days after death so that baby was dumped way before that stage.

I dont think that witness today was at all credible - only thing he was spouting off about was stuff he saw in a photograph - and it was interesting that someone on TV said the defense hired him the same day that news hit that Caylee's body was found, which means they KNEW she was dead. And here we are three years later, gawd only knows how much money has been spent Why would you need this guy TODAY ranbling on about bugs and pigs in a trunk, after knowing about flooding, hurricanes, etc going thru that area and for that length of time - you gotta just know NO bugs are going to be relivant, let alone ANY bugs from this site they found her in -IF they found any bugs that were applicable to the situation.

Marcie

 

[HaoZi]

Actually there is a reason on the bugs - certain bugs come to body at certain points after death. Blowflies are the first, sometimes within minutes. If you can establish the bugs, working backwards through their generations and species, and accounting for conditions, you can put together a good timeline of how much time has elapsed since death. Burial in a bag obviously changes things, but can, if found, give an estimate of how much time she was aboveground postmortem.

 

[Nancy]

Hmmm well I'm sorry but using a pig decomposing for 10 days in Nebraska in the fall that is not wrapped in anything does not at all compare to a child wrapped in two blankets and two plastic bags and a laudry bag in Florida heat in June. I understand you have some knowledge of law HaoZi but so do I so I'm not sure why you insist on taking the opposite side of everything I say.

That study should not have been allowed in evidence. And by the way Florida does have to give discovery to the state.

Nancy

 

[HaoZi]

I didn't say his actual experiment was relevant, just that to some degree it's standard practice to use pigs for such experiments and why, which is the reason it was allowed. Fingerprints and DNA weren't found, but those experts were there as well, because it's standard stuff these days.

ETA: I bet the prosecution took one good look at bug boy's files and cheered because they knew they could destroy him on cross easily. Ergo they would have no objections to this guy being used as defense's expert.

 

[Nancy]

"ETA: I bet the prosecution took one good look at bug boy's files and cheered because they knew they could destroy him on cross easily. Ergo they would have no objections to this guy being used as defense's expert."

I didn't imply they should have objected to him being a defense expert.

Nancy

 

[HaoZi]

You didn't, I was just trying to emphasize why the prosecution wouldn't have objected to any of it, because they could have on the lack of relevancy to the case at hand in regards to the particular experiment. The judge wouldn't kick it out because it's proven scientific method. Letting him show that he has no idea how to properly do a good simulated and controlled experiment colors his entire testimony for the defense (and from what I'm hearing the judge is pretty pro-prosecution). I also have to wonder if he was the best the defense could get or if it's one more mark towards "incompetent defense" on appeal.

 

[DammitJanet]

From all the side bars and action out of the jury's view, I dont think the prosecution was any too thrilled with the bug guy. The judge may have allowed the buy guy in but I think it was over an objection and then some of the things he was allowed to testify to were limited...as if we could actually tell that! There were many many tiffs between the lawyers today. I havent seen so many directs, crosses, re-directs, re-crosses, re-re-directs, re-re-crosses, and so on and so on. God help Casey if she gets on there!

Have you all noticed how smart we have all become since all the CSI shows and all the Forensic shows have become staples on TV? The bug guy said something on the stand in passing about how he wished he could have had a maggot to dissect and get the dna out of...and I almost busted out laughing. That is just so Grissom. Back when they were collecting all the bone fragments and all that evidence, I wanted the team from BONES. They would get everything together, label it, find all evidence with hairs and fibers and fingerprints. Nothing would be missed. You know the Jeffersonian can manage to get fingerprints and DNA from duct tape from 20 years ago that has been in the wilderness for that long...lmao.

 

[Marcie Mac]

If I remember correctly, the defense's expert said they found human DNA in one of the maggots - don't remember if they could identify it as being Caylee's - I just googled maggots and human DNA and it can be done, and from dead ones to boot

Shoot now I have to go back and find that guys testamony.

Marcie

 

[Marcie Mac]

Haozi - I understand the meaning of the bugs - but the guy today was rambling on about them and all he actually saw was photographs and someone elses testamony.

And if there was food in the bag like Pizza, Balogna (there was none), I would wonder where in the heck the ants were - Seems strange no one mentoned ants with food in a garbage bags - I would have figured the ants would be all over that stuff like white on rice

 

[1905]

The jury knows what we all saw, bug guy is an idiot. And what was with all that laughing? I can't believe the defense would pay for that, especially when he threw Biaz under the bus about something. When he said he just felt like doing the trunk experiment for no reason, he just felt like it, or something like that- a lie- I knew the jury wouldn't take him seriously. It was a joke, and the pigs in a blanket reference made it a bigger joke for the jury.

I was addicted to this yesterday, I better stay away or my day will be wasted.