He didn't show

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Copabanana, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    It is common because these days it is very rare for a baby to be given up for adoption. The birthmother usually have issues. Most available from U.S. are taken away because of drug abuse. We read many profiles.

    You have a better shot of a non drug addicted baby in overseas adoptions from Asia (Russia is known for its Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) babies). I know my daughter Princess from Korea is 100 per cent sharp, smart, on the ball and capable. Same with Jumper, but we met her birthmother and got close to her.... Birthfather used drugs and was in fact in jail and birtmom didnt want Jumper anywhere near him. So we knew Jumper would be not be drug or alcohol exposed just as we knew Sonic was drug exposed and wanted to adopt him anyway. Jumper by the way was a completely private adoption and I still love her dear birthmother and it was very helpful to get to know her the way we did. Like Jumper, she is brave and caring and I hope to hug her again one day.

    I dont trust the words of adoption social workers.

    I am sorry about your daughter, Nomad. I know this must have been so disappointing. Adopted kids have a 50 percent chance of having mental health issues. Many of the birthmoms have mental health issues too.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  2. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I agree, SWOT. I see this now. What is extra difficult is how many of us adopted due to health concerns. I have a friend with a lung condition that made her first pregnancy extraordinarily difficult. I have a different, yet very similar story. So, this friend’s daughter who was young was in several foster homes first. The social workers lied and said she was in two homes prior. The stress from working with this very difficult child caused her (my friend’s) health condition to flare. My friend almost died a few times. Then, her husband...a smart fella with a PhD...took off and divorced her. She was determined to care for the child. Gave it everything she had and more. Yet, her adopted daughter is highly, big Time problematic and ungrateful too. Pain and heartache to the extreme.

    I know of a few of these stories. It is maddening.

    (I know they are not all like this and all children are different/individuals)

    Thank goodness for this site.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  3. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Nomad, they dont teach us about attachment disorder, which is incredibly common with adopted kids and very resistant to treatment. This happens in a case such as your friend's daughter who had no one primary caregiver in her infancy. She had one caregiver after another and who knows if any even picked her up or cared for her?

    Yes attachment disorder can and does happen even very young. Infants need at least one stable person to care for them so the infant learns to bond. Yes, the ability to bond is learned. Or never learned. That is why orphanage kids do so badly as a rule and why many adopted kids are ruined before we get a chance with them!!

    My BFF and sister in true spirit adopted two unrelated babies at age six months of age both. One had been with one loving caregiver only. The other had been in tnree homes, screamed from Day One and never recovered.

    She could not settle down, hug (unless she wanted something) or not physically attack somebody and she was just a toddler. Nothing worked to stop her. Put her in a room and she would kick the door until there was a hole etc at age two.

    The whole family was on edge. She had six other extremely kind and well behaved kids, including two that were also adopted.

    Then my dear friend and sister was diagnosed with stage lV cancer. She was not at all well and getting chemo. This child never slept. She screamed all night. Although her husband helped tons and tons, he worked early mornings pretty far away so it was a mess.

    The child finally tried to choke her same age sibling. The screams woke the house. Now this child had not been formally adopted yet, like the other ones. A date had been set but with the cancer diagnosis and the choking attempt they decided not to adopt her.

    The last they heard she had been in four homes, burning out the families at age four. They all planned to adopt her but nobody did. Eventually cancer took my friend. This little girl haunted her to the end. She knew she couldnt handle her yet she never stopped feeling badly about not adopting her. She hadbeen very angry at DCFS for not helping them get her good help and not telling them about her temperment and drug exposure before they brought her home.

    The other two adopted girls are doing great and are also best friends, always doing stuff together, at least as of when when I had FB. They are both in college/working now and close to their four brothers too. My friend never lived to see this though. Sad.

    I digress...

    I think drugs, alcohol and attachment disorder are the three big problems with adopted kids. Of course not all have issues. But too many do.

    The system really needs to be changed. Its horrible for the kids and their very loving parents. They are not forthcoming in many cases.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  4. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Copa, I’ve been away a few days and am just catching up here. I’m so sorry he did this again. You know I’ve been through this gam with S and C many times (though at least it’s a 40 minute drive instead of a three hour train trip). I like your plan of having him confirm his arrival at the meeting place before you travel again - that seems fair given your two fruitless trips.

    I do hope you have a chance to see him and talk in person before making any final decisions on bringing him home. I agree with others that you should do what is right for you here, and if that means bringing him back with no expectations I get that. But if it were me I would need to think carefully, especially if you are concerned about heavier drug use. Are you sure you can accept him there if he has made no changes in his behavior? Or if his behavior has worsened? What happens if it doesn’t work out - will that put you right back where you were when you threw him out the first time? I’m not saying don’t do it - just think it through, and be sure you are clear yourself on what your own hopes, expectations, boundaries and deal breakers are.

    Sending you big hugs. I’m glad you connected by phone at least.
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I brought my son to a child neurologist when he was 5 and the doctor noted that he had one marker of fetal alcohol syndrome, an inner eye fold.

    I don't doubt one minute his birth mother drank if she wanted too.

    I believed we could overcome everything, which was a form of denial. I did the very best I could.

    What I regret is perhaps if I had been more realistic I would have put in place a support system for my son like SWOT did for Sonic, in the first place. But unrealistically I expected him to have a normal launching.

    I do not necessarily expect my son to want to come home. But I feel better putting it on the table. I had a talk today with M who says I need to change a whole lot before I will be ready to deal with my son back home.

    I think the major issue I have is boundaries and problem solving, instead of staying present and strong, I kind of dissolve in a puddle of overwhelm and emotion. I think I really kind of go into a traumatized state.

    But I am between the devil and the deep blue sea, here. I have no good option here.

    M mentioned today he needed to go to the consulate in order to arrange his papers for Mexico. He has not spoken about going back, and says it is not his plan, but he wants to be ready if he has to. His mother is quite old and he fears the end is near.

    This is overwhelming to me. That I am alone, without the support and care of M and then with my son in the situation he is in, feels to me to be impossibly sad for me. But what can I do?
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think these are all of the things that worry M. And I think all of these things lurk beneath the surface for me. And throw me over the edge. I try to deny them, because my son's current situation so frightens me, but you're right Elsi.

    I worry too that with my son home, living with M that the conflict between them would boil over and affect me. In the past it was unbearable to me when M would come home and complain about J. It was unfair of me to have the expectation that M deal with everything without complaint. Just as it would be so, again.

    It is just that I can't bear the current situation. I can't bear that my son is living in a truck. I can't bear that he does not have structure and security. I can't bear that he get worse.
  7. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    I understand. I really do. Having him in such an unstable living situation is unbearable for you. Not knowing if he is ok is unbearable to you. Having him back at the other house feels like it restores some control over the situation. And perhaps it would. Perhaps for you and for J it would be better than what you are going through now.

    I can only think through this as it would go down with my two wayward ones. I can’t have them here, even knowing they are on the streets, because I can already see how it would end. With me throwing them back out. Probably police involvement. A legal mess with tenants rights and eviction proceedings. And a broken relationship.

    I could not do what you are contemplating - allowing them to live on my property with no expectations. I have the same worries you do, that perhaps I am expecting things of them that they just aren’t capable of. Especially S. (Still missing...). But I still cannot bring them into my world. I agonize over it. I feel guilty. But I can’t invite them back in. I could not bear to be a witness to the way they are living. We can have a relationship only from a distance, because getting too close and seeing to much is too painful.

    But J is not C or S, and you are not me. Your answer may be different.

    I just want to make sure you are making a decision with clear eyes and a clear heart, and not from a place of fear.
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Copa....we are here for you.

    There is really no evidence your son is doing worse. He is doing the same dance he has done for years.

    I think you need to try again...in your heart.

    Dont ask him about drugs. You dont need to know everything. Jmo. Even my well behaved, sweet, law abiding kids dont tell me everything. That is normal. Did we tell our mothers everything?
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  9. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    Copa, What will make YOU feel better?
    To me it sounds like you walk a tightrope between M and J when J is there. To me I think that is completely and totally unfair to you. M really has no say, he is not your husband or J's dad. I don't think you should have to justify your feelings or you wanting J to come home to M.
    Maybe I read it wrong and M doesn't judge or complain about J.
    Now..my next question...
    If j comes home, can you let control go? If you can, great. If you are going to constantly stress and tell him what to do, forget it.
    You will be stressed constantly.
    Sorry, but the more he has done (or not done lately) the more I think he is in total control and just wants to manipulate you.
    How much are they not capable of job and commitment wise and how much is just laziness?
    J not showing up. How much is laziness, sleeping another 10 minutes, 100x and then, "Oh well it's too late, she'll get over it".
    He didn't return texts but THEN answers his friends phone?

    I hope you can come up with a plan that you can live with and won't stress YOU out.
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  10. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I dont believe he is in total control or is trying to manipulate her. Not at all. I think he is very confused and maybe limited in pretty obvious ways by his prenatal drug exposure plus two TBIs. These are big deals. They affect functioning.

    I think of all the mothers here, Copa, most of all, needs her son near her. She loves him in a very deep, bonding, connected way and is actually a wreck when he is gone. In her case, she is more of a emotional mess when he is gone. I do think there has to be a surrender of trying to control him. But she can not detach from him and need not. It is her choice.

    They would not be living in the same house. She owns separate property. M may or may not be a problem but he means well. J and M are not mean or malicious people.

    This is something I think Copa needs to try. Other mothers not so much. Copa, yes.

    Big hugs to all!
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  11. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    I agree with you that I think Copa needs to try. For her own peace of mind. To know where he is and that he is safe and hopefully taking care of his health.
    I really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he just can't get it together. But I don't know.
    I don't think that M is trying to cause strife. I am afraid that maybe Cope FEELS that she needs both of them to be ok with each other and M to be ok with J being there. Maybe M really doesn't have a problem with it.
    I know I always try to be the buffer/peach keeper. I think a lot of the time everything would be fine if I just relaxed and quit trying to buffer things..
    Ben hasn't seen my hubby/his dad since August and he is fine with it. they are both in denial about the happenings that caused all of this. There is accountability on both sides--and mine too for doing too much buffering for the last 3 years. ben's offenses are above and beyond the most. But dad has started asking about him. I have started saying, I don't know, call him if you want to talk to him. I am not being a go between anymore.

    Copa, Huggs from across the miles. I am rooting for you, m and j.
    I hope and pray you can find a way to make everything work and maintain some peace.
  12. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I wrote a book. Thank you very much everybody.

    I had written this at the end, and moved it to the top, because it is the most hopeful position I can come up with:

    The trauma therapist I see thinks J should come home. She did not say so directly, but I could see she believes that. She thinks I should let M handle the situation and keep out of it. She thinks that J needs my support and she thinks that I can handle the situation. She thinks I'm changing and I am capable of way more than I think. All of this I agree with. This would be a hopeful way to think. It would be operating with the assumption that all three of us can and will do better.

    Now I will go into the weeds:
    You've got it right. M judges and complains to me. (M is direct, blunt, actually.) This is his personality. *Is this anything like your husband's personality with Ben, Tired?

    I can change by learning to let it go or to stand up to him (possibly). I have way more control here than I take. I give in and withdraw. That's part of the reason I don't want to live with him. It is my house, but I let him boss me around and have control. I defer. He is WAY better now that we are not living together.
    I don't drink but I think I'm going to start going to AA to learn how to let go of things and to stick up for myself. I cannot stand conflict. And, unfortunately, I do not like to face reality.

    These are all personality limitations that are in me, that I can change. Maybe. (I mean, as I write this, I am thinking how realistic is it that I submit to a lobotomy in order to cope with my life?)
    Yes and no. I am concerned that M be OK with this. If there is ongoing conflict, he will move out, which is fine. There is no real reason he has to be in the apartment. Except even though there is potential for conflict, I TRUST M. Not only do I trust him as a person, I trust him with J, despite the propensity for conflict. He loves J. And he wants the best for him.

    The obvious problem with that is that M's ideas about the best for J, have not worked out. M REALLY takes control and gets bossy. M can be a hard-ass, and I am concerned that M will not let go of the idea that J must change. M has a brother who was destroyed by drugs, and M cannot be neutral about the subject.

    The thing is J KNOWS M. We've already been through this several times before. Not one of us has succeeded at this. Actually, M was always the one to cede first. He was always the softest, with my son. He was the one my son went to when I would go crazy and M was always the one that behind my back would give in to my son. (I know I sound nice, and I am nice but I don't seem to cope well with interpersonal stressors, except at work. You see, I am reactive. I get hysterical. But not aggressive.) M just gives orders. He criticizes, and commands. And then it blows over and he has a lot more give in his personality. And then he is softer than I am. Because once I have lost it, I've lost it. (I'm feeling very hopeless right now.)

    That said, I think that there is a reasonable chance that M will be more mellow now, because all of us have water under the bridge. I think he is beginning to see that J has real limitations, and I think it might be easier because I will not be there with them. M thinks he is protecting me. I am really a weak link here.

    Personally I think my son is NOT going to come back. The weather will soon be warmer where he is. What, really, would be the incentive for him to return? He KNOWS what we're like. Why would he expect anybody has changed?

    I do not know if the friend makes him PAY to stay in the truck, I hadn't thought about that (that would make me feel TERRIBLE), but my son does not much like to pay rent.

    What I think is that my son WANTS to be in communication with me, but I am not all that sure he wants to come back here. I think my son considers coming back when he feels he's without options. For example, when he wanted to come back last month, it was because he felt a burden to his friend. He would want to come back if his friend said he could not sleep in the truck anymore.

    And my son KNOWS M's personality. My son will KNOW what living with M will be. He will not want it. He loves M, but he knows that M will set a standard. M will expect him to be clean. And M will not be comfortable with J's smoking marijuana all day. My son will know that going in, and he will decide. I do not think my son will choose to butt heads with M. And I am not ready, yet, to say to M, leave. (I fear that without M my son will eat me for lunch.)

    M's brother in law wants to live there too and there is room for all three of them, in separate rooms. M's brother in law is much more easy going than M (he's a mature working man, with two daughters a little younger than my son, I would guess he's about 50) and I think he and J would be a pretty good match. Actually, with the three of them I could see it working. Possibly.

    To be honest I AM worried about dealing with J alone. I am concerned about the apartment, and his not destroying it. It is beautiful now. There are brand new floors, even. If he trashes the place, I will feel terrible. But the thing is any tenant that was not M or M's brother in law might likely trash the place. It is going to happen. I have to accept that. So. I have to be the one who changes, in any event.

    What I am accepting is that there is no scenario here where I have control. None.

    Thank you so very much, everybody. I am confusing myself. Again. Elsi and SWOT have completely opposite opinions and I agree with them BOTH. SWOT is right about how I suffer. Elsi is right about what triggers me. Oh Gee.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Absolutely. This is a bottom line. Thank you Elsi.
    I agree with this SWOT.
    I agree with this, for sure, about me. Maybe there are other mothers here that need their children like I need my son. But they don't complain as much.
    I agree with this, too.
    And I agree with this, too. This makes me anxious. Because I will not be able to control M, either. The image that is coming to mind is a gladiator fight. That is not good.
    I think there's truth to this. But I would not be living with them. I would have to let go of any sense of responsibility of the outcome. It would be between the two of them, should J come back. And I would not accept that M come carry tales back to me. They would have to deal with it. That would be the only way it could work.

    I had had the idea that M live in the front house, separate from J. And M said that was unnecessary, that he could live with J. Maybe I am blowing this up out of proportion. Maybe I need to let J and M work this out themselves. First, J will decide what he wants. And second, they will either work it out or not. And third, I will deal with whatever happens. Thank you very much.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    My son did work at a job as a nurse's aid for about 15 months. I had pushed him to get the training and he was hired by the program that trained him. He was the valedictorian of his class.

    But this was when his problems really started. It went well for a short while but he could not cope and he was anxious and depressed. He came to feel that his co-workers didn't like them. I really think that he has performance anxiety and cannot bear the pressure. I think this experience scarred him, and I think he does not want to get back into the ring.

    At the same time, you are correct. It is just all so much easier to not try at all.

    But the thing is I do think my son is mentally ill. I think that sometimes an aspect of mental illness is a lack of motivation, poor coping, and sensitivity to criticism. And my son gets confused and has trouble following directions, whether due to ADHD, early drug exposure, and maybe the brain injury.

    I am accepting that he is right to not put himself under pressure. He knows. I was wrong.

    But that does not mean he should not do something. But am I the person to decide that? We all agree. No. It did not work. And it was unkind. But now I know.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    • Copa I am up in the middle of the night. Happens sometimes. No anxiety. Just not tired.
    Copa you are not in any way mean nor could you ever be. Hysterical sometimes, maybe lol. I used to get that way when pressured. Is it a Jewish trait? My mom did it too! But you are not mean.

    Regarding M, I think most men tend to cut more to the chase and be less about talk and more about action and also even nice men in my opinion have a harder time dealing with challenges in a kid. Adult or not. A kid the man loves. I think it often takes more time to accept this. My husband was not always as understanding and good with Sonic as he is now and he is as kind as it gets.

    My first husband was in total control of everything we did and it suffocated me. So I get not liking to be controlled although I doubt M is close to my ex's level. I felt powerless with him. I loved when he worked and was not home. Fortunately he was phobic about money so he worked two jobs and I worked part time. So I didnt have to see him much, which prolonged our sad marriage.

    If J comes home I agree to let the men work things out. J, being male, may actually like handling things with a man and a man's way more than with you. Tetosterone speaks!!

    I hope J agrees to come home. I know it would make your heart rest easier. I am getting tired now.

    Keep us posted! Love, hugs and a warm blueberry muffin with your favorite latte :).
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  16. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Active Member

    I have tried to catch up on this post but am not sure i caught it all. In my opinion you need to take some time and make some decisions about what you want and what you can deal with on your own before you present anything to M orJ. I don't think the upheavel in your mind is going to help anybody. When you are able to make a decision and abide by what that decision entails then present that to M and J and get their input. If they feel differently you have to accept that and they have to accept the consequenses of that as well. The up and down ,maybe this maybe that, is not going to benefit anyone. No one doubts that you are loving and want what is best for everyone but i think that you need to be able to make a decision and stick to it. Then allow them to make their decisions based on what you will accept. That being said I know that is not easy i am in a similar position my husband criticizes most of my decisions regaurding my son and if or when i should help. I know my son is mentally ill but as people here have reminded me he still has to take responsibility to get help for himself . They may not ever achieve what we consider to be normal but we can't control that. Ultimately we can't make all the decisions for them because if we do what happens when we are gone. If you want him home just make sure you are willing to deal with what that entails and that that they are willing if either you or they aren't don't do it.
  17. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Copa thinking of you this morning. I know you will make the right decision for you and for J. And you know you have my full support whatever that turns out to be. I hate to see the pain and conflict in your heart right now. Do what will bring you peace.
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  18. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    Copa, you are not mean or unkind. Do not beat yourself up. You were the person to decide it becasue it was your property he was crashing on and making others uncomfortable. You had to do something. What to do, how to handle it, hindsight is 20/20.
    I am hopeful you can work it our with him. Maybe throwing up your hands , have a special needs trust set up to take care of him the rest of his life is what works for you, maybe not (don't tell him if you do that , it will just enable him).
  19. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Copa I've tried to catch up but I'm at work and between hearings so I haven't much time. I can feel your stress and distress over this whole situation. I grabbed snippets that caught my attention and I'm just going to respond with my thoughts to those.

    I'd suggest CODA (Co-dependents anonymous) instead of AA.

    I'm not convinced this is a bad thing. Copa, try looking at it this way - he's pretty much made it through the winter. Mild as they are where you live, isn't that one of the big stressors? Him being out in the cold and homeless? He's shown he CAN survive on his own, for months now. He's not helpless.

    Why? Why would that make YOU feel bad, that your son had to pay something for a place to sleep? I don't care if it is a truck. It's a relatively secure, warm, dry place. He's not in the open. He's not on the ground. It's not HIS so he has to rent the space. What's wrong with that? I mean, as long as it's not hundreds of dollars, doesn't everyone have to pay for a place to sleep?

    Yeah...but you would have a security deposit and you could sue them for excess damages.

    You have no control over J. Or M. You DO have control over yourself. You just have to find it my friend. Easier said than done.

    Totally agree with SWOT. Sounds like J and M really have usually gotten along. Unlike Jabber and my son, where I really had to play peacemaker a lot of the time because our son was so antagonistic, J doesn't sound like the type of play the alpha male and go nose to nose with M. I think they'd sort it out one way or another.

    I wish I had more time to give your situation the thought it deserves Copa....:hugs:
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  20. Helpless29

    Helpless29 Member

    I’m so sorry. My heart breaks for you.I just saw this thread . I will be praying for you.