He is not well.

[SuZir]

Things are still very difficult.

I have written quite a few long updates of the situation during last two weeks, then removed anything too identifiable and what has been left has made no sense so deleted rest of it too.

So without going much to things he has or hasn't done or how things have developed, there are some real concerns I can talk somewhat openly here.

Good development is that he is not currently running around without any control, but actually seems to be sleeping during night-time, getting up at morning and being where he should be during a day. His mood is still very bad though what I have heard and he does run his mouth at times.

He is still not talking to us and while that is not big concern right now someone tried to talk some sense to him about that and that revealed some very concerning things.

Ache had first claimed that we turned on him and he can't understand why we hate him. When challenged if he really believes we have ceased loving him and want to harm him, he had caved and admitted that he didn't. But he had tested waters with ideas that can not be described but delusional to explain our behaviour towards him in. Really crazy and out there stuff, that can not be considered just bit eccentric. However, he was able to detect how the person he was talking with took those ideas and backed off quickly and just decided, that we are old, misguided and do not know anything about anything.

I'm very worried about those delusions and his apparent difficulty recognizing them as not realistic thoughts. For him to test them out like that he actually needed to be unsure if those thoughts are realistic or not.

He hasn't had troubles with reality checking before, not like this, not lasting for longer time. This was not any heat in the moment thing, nor something he said while panicking or stuck. The person who talked with him says he seemed rather relaxed during most part of their conversation and certainly wasn't under influence or anything.

 

[Copabanana]

Really crazy and out there stuff, that can not be considered just bit eccentric. However, he was able to detect how the person he was talking with took those ideas and backed off quickly

Suzir, I know how hard this is.

I worry about the reality testing of my son, who takes very seriously bizarre conspiracy theories that even involve aliens mating with reptiles, a super secret society, "the illuminati", and culminating in a catastrophe (My only consolation is that he played with similar action figures as a child. Perhaps it is a hangover from that.)

I think that it is encouraging that he did test his thinking with somebody else. And I think it is very encouraging that he was able to respond to and temper his words to correspond with the reaction of the listener.

My son will not. He is adamant he is correct. He will not tolerate dissent.

Suzir, is your son on medication? Is he in treatment? Does he have a diagnosis? Or if you do not want to put this on the internet, I understand.

As I am understanding you your son seems calm and relaxed. While he may say extreme things, when pushed, he admits that he understands reality. He is doing what he has to do. He is functioning, it seems. Sleeping, getting where he has to go. All of these are good things.

Do you think he is angry or resentful about something in particular?

Would there be any secondary gain for having bizarre ideas?

Is he under the influence of anybody, or peer group or internet group?

Suzir, I do know how hard this is. I am living it too.

COPA

 

[SuZir]

Suzir, is your son on medication? Is he in treatment? Does he have a diagnosis?

His main diagnosis is PTSD, but he has also others; dissociative disorder, moderate/severe depression and he had bout of conversion disorder. Traits of other disorders have also been speculated such as Borderline (BPD), Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), anxiety disorders etc. He also isn't quite neurotypical and has sensory issues, has always been very hyperactive and impulsive and has had issues with executive functions. He is on Lexapro and Buspar regularily and takes Atarax or very small dose Seroquel prn for anxiety and sleep. Or that was how it was till few weeks back, I do not know if there has been medication changes due current situation, because he is not talking to us and people who are keeping us updated may not have info about that type of things if Ache is not telling them.

Ache had crisis requiring hospitalisation last fall and after that we did find him a psychiatrist to manage medication close to where we live because Ache's lifestyle is more or less nomadic and close to us was the best bet for longer term provider. However it is more than likely Ache's employer has forced him to some local psychiatrist, but we do not know for sure. He continued his prolonged exposure therapy again late last spring after two year break and with a therapist close to his current city. However I do not know if he still attends. He has also been seeing same sport psychologist a long time and he has been great help especially skill wise, but he has been out of country some time now and Ache has stopped taking his calls or answering his messages at least in any meaningful way. Sport psychologist will be back home late this week and plans to try to get Ache's city early next week to meet him face to face to discuss things.

Do you think he is angry or resentful about something in particular?

Would there be any secondary gain for having bizarre ideas?

Is he under the influence of anybody, or peer group or internet group?

This is a good question. He is angry and resentful towards me, hubby and Joy for something in particular and from his point of view I guess it is a very good reason. But he has seemed very angry and resentful also with others with whom he does not have a good reason, like his sport psychologist or many of his friends. He has made comments how his friends have proven to be two-faced and false, how people do not see the truth etc.

By behaving like this he is making himself enormous professional and personal harm and he still maintains he wants to reach his dreams and do well in his profession. His behaviour is senseless and shows total lack of self preservation. His peer group tends to encourage rather homogeneous behaviour at least in public and he is not heeding that right now. Not even publicly that well.

Instead of his real friends and peers he seems to have attached himself to some public figures he admires. He has expressed that these figures understand him better, understand the truth, are the real deal and so on instead of people he actually knows. If he would be 13 or 14 year old girl, this type of idolising would be rather typical, but for someone his age, and when it is new thing, it is very worrisome. He isn't just listening their music or something like that but he watches every video and reads everything he can find from them and even their entourage, comments their public social media like they would be his friends and seems to take their public image as 'real.'

Also in other ways he comes off as very young or someone with very limited cognitive ability right now. It is bit better at some days, but very visible at others. And this is not typical for him, not at all.

 

[SuZir]

I think I need to add that with Ache dissociative symptoms have been often quite dramatic. Things tend to change to him dramatically when he is having dissociative episode. Very elaborate hallucinations and thoughts and ideas he has hard time getting rid of. But he has always, aside some short panic attack type periods, been rather well aware that what he sees, hears or feels is not true. At worst he has needed to check a lot, either by touching or asking people he trust, but it has always been more 'I know this is my mind playing tricks, because what I see /hear/feel/think is not plausible, but it really feels/seems/sounds very lifelike. Can you again assure me again, that it is not true?' Of course not those words, but the intent.

Before he was able to have very matter of fact attitude to these things most of the time. He in fact took it most of the time quite similar way than his synaesthesia (he has also a lot of that, it runs strongly in my family and also me and Joy are synaestesthesic if less so than Ache) and just accepted that he sometimes sees and feels differently than people typically do. Now it seems to be somehow different and he seems to believe it more and seems less aware that most people would not share his experience of things and that factual evidence does not support his feelings.

 

[Copabanana]

Suzir, I read your posts. I will try to get back here later to comment further. I know how worried you are. It is such a helpless feeling, I think.

Because he has so much to lose. So much on the line.

Except the thing is, I think, the most and only important thing is him. His maturation. His clarity. He becoming who he needs to be. His most essentially well-being, internally and in the world.

This is just me. But the career has to be thought of as secondary right now. His welfare is what is paramount, even if it is hard to separate the career with his best welfare. He will be OK. I believe that.

COPA

 

[SuZir]

This is just me. But the career has to be thought of as secondary right now. His welfare is what is paramount, even if it is hard to separate the career with his best welfare. He will be OK. I believe that.

The pressing issue is that for him his career is not secondary. I have a distinct impression that only reason he is currently not at sick leave is, that his bosses are too afraid he would be found dead the morning after he understands his career may be over. Me and hubby very much share that fear.

There has been veiled and not so veiled threats and talk about suicide, but he doesn't admit suicidal intents to authorities in the way that would make involuntary placement possible. (And as you probably guess it is this topic that has caused him to feel we have betrayed him and want to harm him, while we feel we did only possible thing given the circumstances.)

 

[Copabanana]

that his bosses are too afraid he would be found dead the morning after he understands his career

Oh, Suzir. So hard.

Do you think he is this fragile? He does not sound so, too me. He sounds headstrong...but fragile, not so much.

 

[AppleCori]

Suzir--

This is so heartbreaking.

I feel so bad for your boy, these elements of his thoughts that he cant control, how fearful it all is.

He reminds me of my X, talented, hard-working, yet troubled by the uninvited thoughts in his mind.

I remember the constant worry.

So sorry you--and he--have to deal with this.

 

[Copabanana]

Suzir, you and Ache have been with me all day.

At the end of day, Suzir, you have to take care of yourself. I do not know if it is helpful or hurtful to continue to speculate what could be going on. He has professionals around him that are attending to him. It is you who we care about here. That you take care of yourself and the rest of your family. Ache must find a way to work this through, to work this out.

But you are so intellectual, conceptual, I feel you will not rest until you feel you understand. Even though you may not find a way to do so. And if this is so, you will have to find a way to let it go. I have.

Ache sounds like he shares some of what my son is like. With me my son is open with what he is thinking. I think. He tells me too much. It scares me. It scares him. He is scared.

How scared do you think Ache is? You seem scared, that seems clear to me. Is he? Is he clear, that that it is he who is afraid, and not just you, for him?

Do you really feel his bosses are aware of his suicidal ideation?

What in him, do you think, is the primary driver of this self-destructive behavior? Do you think it is psychosis or anxiety or trauma-based? What do you think is the primary driver?

Could it be something that he is choosing?

Is he exploring the limits of his situation? Does he feel constrained by his situation?

Is it something about authority? Or rebellion?

Does he lack self-control or do you feel he is in-control?

Do you think he truly understands the potential consequences to himself?

Could he be doing this deliberately to test others, to bring forth the consequences he most fears? Is it a test of courage of manhood? Is it risk-seeking?

Suzir, I hope you check in before you go to sleep. Tell us how you are doing, please. And what you are doing for yourself.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I too think that it would be best to delete much identifying information, SuZir.

We have been in similar situations. Times when we know things are slipping, but when the child's behaviors could still be construed as rational. Vilification of parents as you describe seems to be part of this. I think what happens is that the child understands his own changing status well enough to defend against it.

He is scared, too.

It is frightening to understand we are no longer able to validate reality as we know it must be. That is the best way I can think to describe how it feels for the person suffering. It isn't that they aren't aware that things are changing in how they interpret reality, it is that they are frightened because things are changing, and they do know it. They want so desperately for it not to be true.

I think they focus what they feel for themselves onto us.

If we are the one overreacting to every little thing, that means they are okay.

I have not been able to break through that feeling that I am...not really the enemy, but that I am the person it is necessary to fool or to trick into believing these changes are not happening; that I am the one who must be made to see that every choice is being made rationally and is healthy. It feels like being desperately loved by someone who is drowning and finds me repulsive at the same time.

I know it is frightening for the sufferer. As the illness progresses...it's like the child compartmentalizes. The most frightening aspects are presented in glowing terms for validation that the increasing abnormalities are normal.

That is the best way I can describe it.

Responding honestly is met with rage driven, so I believe, by fear. The child goes no contact. When contact is made again, the same desperate measures are in effect but with less complexity. There is not a feeling of love, but of angry determination that the inappropriate behaviors will be validated as rational.

I am sorry SuZir, but I don't know how to help. In stepping in to help, we are seen as the enemy and are resented. Something that feels close to disgust is paramount in every interaction. When we step away, the illness progresses anyway. Knowing what I know now...I still don't know what I would have done differently, or what is the best thing to do, now. Responsibility to something the suffering child cherishes can bring them back to a degree. Affection and honesty, acknowledging that the situation is frightening, that we believe they know how to care for themselves responsibly. Encouraging them to hold faith with themselves. Reminding them they have come through beautifully in the past ~ and having an example to back that up. Those choices of attitude seem at least to enable trust. Like in the eye of the hurricane, there is a quiet, true place the child can get to. Hope of that, belief that you hold a center they can get to, helps them, I think.

But a hurricane is a destructive thing. It does not help us to minimize what is happening. For us to know how to function through it when the child's responses are so rageful or deceitful or manipulative is difficult.

Knowing my intentions regarding my interactions with the child helped me remember steady state. Not to panic, not to give in to fear.

Not to enable.

To define my role to myself helps me to stay or reclaim or come back to that mental space where I can function as the eye of the hurricane. It helps me to understand it is fear driving the behaviors. I find empathy and compassion for all of us, there.

There are lies told and believed.

It becomes impossible to maintain trust.

We have to get to a place in our thinking where we can respond from our sane core for the sake of the person we love who cannot find his sane core, and is covering his terror with anger or manipulation or disgust.

And that's all I know. I wish I did know more about how to do this. I'm sorry SuZir. Maybe someone else will post in and we both can learn how to do better for us and for the kids. Acknowledging that this is a very hard thing helps me not to feel like I've failed. Keeping a firm grip on what this person means to me helps me. That is a very hard thing to do, too. I try to listen to myself as I speak with the child, to be sure I am saying what I think I am.

I say Anne Lamott's simple prayer: "Help." Help me be who my child needs. I say that one, alot.

I am very afraid, too. Accepting that helps me not be afraid of how scared I am.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you Cedar. For your wisdom and care. You have spoken to my situation, too, and how it has felt to be the mother to my own son.

It feels like being desperately loved by someone who is drowning and finds me repulsive at the same time.

Yes.

There is not a feeling of love, but of angry determination that the inappropriate behaviors will be validated as rational.

Yes. My son is getting to the point where he can understand why we cannot communicate about the things he fears. But we can speak about his fear. He is seeing that I am unable to feel the intensity of his fear...because while I accept his fear as real...I do not see the things he is fearing as reasonable...and even if they were...I feel it is the human condition to not know what and will and when it will happen to us. And I understand to understand we we cannot control any of it, is a process.

I am seeing that he is in a process of getting to know that the anxiety came first...and maybe the fear...before the content, the thing he fears. I hope he will come to see that the ideas, the conspiracies are just vehicles to carry his anxieties, his feelings, possibly delusions...and it is these that make him more anxious and more fearful. Like a virtuous circle, I think it is called.

We are enough in dialog where he is able, I think, to begin to think about the psychological phenomena he experiences as well as the cataclysmic events that he is fearing. This has not begun, but the intensity of our talking is less loaded. We are less blocked by misunderstanding.

And he does not reject me as much and as quickly...as I have become neutral and calm...he finds me more tolerable and opens up more...and allows me to see more of his fear....rather than his dogma. But his fear scares me, too. The intensity of it, to me, feels intolerable after a few minutes.

In stepping in to help, we are seen as the enemy and are resented.

Yes. This is so. They want us to be with them in their fear. Not to do reality testing for them. Not to diagnose or seek remedy. They want us with them in their fear. To be with them. To not be alone with it. They want Mama to be with them. Like before. To tell them they are alright. Will be alright. We are together. It is OK. It will be OK. It is only fear...It will be alright. I think my son wants this and rejects it.

It is very, very hard for me. I can do it for a few minutes. I have to end the calls.

When we step away, the illness progresses anyway.

Yes and No. The illness is the illness. Sometimes they can find a way to answer it. Themselves.

Like in the eye of the hurricane, there is a quiet, true place the child can get to. Hope of that, belief that you hold a center they can get to, helps them, I think.

Yes. Even for the few minutes I can be with him in that center, seems to mean something. I cannot tolerate it for very long. I feel guilty and afraid to say this, to see this.

We have to get to a place in our thinking where we can respond from our sane core for the sake of the person we love who cannot find his sane core, and is covering his terror with anger or manipulation or disgust.

Yes. I think I got here. And he can be with me in this place. But I cannot minimize his fear. I cannot minimize his belief in what he fears. I can just state my own truth.

I think where I am with this is here: They want us to be with them because they are afraid. They do not want us to try to understand what is wrong in psychological terms. They do not want our opinions or our knowledge. They are not interested in our ideas about resolution or treatment. They just want us with them. When they feel we are there, they stop rejecting us, and disparaging us and hating us. We are no longer repulsive.

My son seeks me out, I think, as a safe place. Now. I feel bad that I can only be that for him for a few minutes. Because where he is scares me.

 

[SuZir]

I will likely ask this thread to be removed later, though ironically these dark, private issues are not that identifying. With proud traditions of groin injuries treated in incubators inside NICUs and back injuries treated on detoxes and alcohol rehabs and multiple layers of false, made up rumours between those two 'truths' there is only handful of people who would easily connect what I write to my son. And those people already know it all.

And I do need to voice these fears and not just roll my eyes and comment something about terrible twos when closer to 22, when asked about Ache.

I try not to think him too much. My work has turned from normal and bit boring to hectic and draining, so there Ache does not come to mind that often. And I also try to concentrate on doing relaxing things while denying any thought about Ache (or work), but of course I can't, nor want, not think him quite a lot.

It is very late here already and I have other hard work day in front of me. Thank you Copa and cedar for what you wrote, you both gave me something to think about. I will be back about that later.

 

[SuZir]

My life is currently very hectic due things not related to Ache, so it helps that I can't worry about him all the time. That is also a reason it took this long to get back to your messages.

Meanwhile Ache has calmed down a bit, there has been better days with him but also a new more confused and disorderly night. They have managed to quiet down anything leaking out on the public, but while that protects his reputation it of course help much other wise.

He is still not talking to us and is angry, but is starting to waiver.

Do you think he is this fragile? He does not sound so, too me. He sounds headstrong...but fragile, not so much.

He is all over the place and it really depends from his mood. There has been times, not many but some, I have seen him so desperate, broken and fragile that I can easily imagine him taking his own life. Luckily he has at those times also been so exhausted he has not have had strength to do it.

However even more worrying is his impulsivity. His half-arsed suicide attempt (the time he decided mid fly, he didn't want to die after all and got extremely lucky and made it) was mostly product of impulsiveness. Short very bad moment, opportunity and before he knew it, he was in the air. Resentment, impulsivity, passive-aggressiveness, those he has in bounds and together they could lead to tragedy.

Us and people around him being very worried about this is to be expected. Suicides are way more common in our culture than yours and Ache has many of the typical characteristics for young men who end up killing themselves. Of course most of the young men like that do not, but considering that here everyone has a friend of family member or at least school or workmate or neighbour who has committed suicide, we tend to be rather sensitive to certain red flags.

How scared do you think Ache is? You seem scared, that seems clear to me. Is he? Is he clear, that that it is he who is afraid, and not just you, for him?

Do you really feel his bosses are aware of his suicidal ideation?

What in him, do you think, is the primary driver of this self-destructive behavior? Do you think it is psychosis or anxiety or trauma-based? What do you think is the primary driver?

Ache will vehemently deny it, but he is scared to death. He tries to explain to himself he has never been better, never been happier, never been more positive and above all the mundane worries of other people, but he is absolutely frightened. i can see that from his eyes, people with him see it from his body language and has mentioned it to us. He is dead scared.

His suicidal ideation is not much of the secret. Ache currently denies it afterwards, but when disorientated he was open about it to quite a few people and half of those called us and other half called his bosses/their medical staff.

The most disorientated couple of days I was sure this was manic psychosis. He was SO out of it, babbling (in social media) nonsense and stream of consciousness, all over the place mood wise. From top of the world to that suicidal ideation and paranoia. However even during that he was able to convince authorities that he was not psychotic and needing treatment for his own benefit nor danger to himself or others, so he could get some control over himself even when his writings looked anything but. He was also able to gain quite a lot of control before their next practise. These worst couple days were spiced with some substance abuse but in reality stuff he admits taking (and his tox screens have been clean during all this time, they have taken quite a few) simply shouldn't cause that type of incoherence and certainly not for that long. In fact also last pout of incoherent behaviour was fuelled with substances, but it was two beers according to people who were with him all evening. Ache is a big guy with ability to burn alcohol quickly. Two beers do not take him even close to legal driving limit and are out of his system in three hours or less. He was very incoherent also this time for several hours.

Mania certainly is a possibility. I have it in my family and Ache has a type of personality I have often associated with bipolar. However he seems to do okay at times, be even almost normal and then there are these confused periods. To my understanding that is not typical to mania. And again, his dissociative symptoms have been rather extreme also in the past and they have been anxiety based. But I really do not know.

Is it something about authority? Or rebellion?

Does he lack self-control or do you feel he is in-control?

Do you think he truly understands the potential consequences to himself?

Could he be doing this deliberately to test others, to bring forth the consequences he most fears? Is it a test of courage of manhood? Is it risk-seeking?

Outwards it looks a lot like extreme teenage rebellion. As I said, he seems somehow very young and this is part of that. How he expresses himself could be from the mouth of the very angry 14-year-old. And he has put up every sign of rebellion he have been able to think of, or at least it looks like it.

But that kind of rebellion does not make sense and it is very difficult to understand what motivates it. If he doesn't want to do what he is doing (despite everything he has ever said), he can just up and leave anytime. No one would stop him. It has always been his own internal drive, not outside factors that have kept him going.

He claims to have total self-control and he claims to be very aware of consequences and making choices with his own free will. i don't believe in second. He is totally out of control at times and between those times rationalises how what he said or what happened was actually a deliberate choice.

Self-sabotaging is always a possibility with him. Not in concious level but subconsciously. But why now? And being this lost?

If we are the one overreacting to every little thing, that means they are okay.

I have not been able to break through that feeling that I am...not really the enemy, but that I am the person it is necessary to fool or to trick into believing these changes are not happening; that I am the one who must be made to see that every choice is being made rationally and is healthy. It feels like being desperately loved by someone who is drowning and finds me repulsive at the same time.

I know it is frightening for the sufferer. As the illness progresses...it's like the child compartmentalizes. The most frightening aspects are presented in glowing terms for validation that the increasing abnormalities are normal.

I'm really afraid this could be big part of what is going on with Ache.

even if, just now, it seems he is doing bit better again. He is sharper, more cognitively there, more focused to 'normal things.' Paying attentions to how his friends are doing, what is happening around him. His last social media etc. doesn't look so young any more, they say he is actually doing well in practises and so on. But this could be just the lull between the storms.

 

[pasajes4]

He sounds like he is very ill and extremely likely to around the bend. This is just my two cents, I think that the highly competitive nature of the sport is doing him in. I think that he believes that if he performs well that he is well. From what you have posted, he has been going downhill rather rapidly.

 

[Copabanana]

His half-arsed suicide attempt (the time he decided mid fly, he didn't want to die after all and got extremely lucky and made it) was mostly product of impulsiveness.

My son has been through this. When he was 18 he was in a jobs program and came home to visit. Within minutes the conflict started. I took a xanex I became so anxious. He grabbed the bottle and put a handful down his throat. He had to go to the hospital to get his stomach pumped. I was so pissed. Not afraid. Pissed.

I think that he believes that if he performs well that he is well.

This makes sense. But I do not have the same sense of peril.

I do agree that the sport is a double edged sword. It may motivate and drive him, and there are substantial rewards. Fame.

But the risks are so great. The competition, the high-pressure, the overarching importance of a few minutes of performance, which in itself means nothing at all, but defines everything. The fact that there are so few opportunities, employers. The celebrity aspect. Doing everything in a fishbowl. How hard. And this performance means everything. And means so little when all is said and done.

I think our sons have had a hard row to hoe. Intense. Labile. Immature. Brilliant. Gifted. Dramatic. Temperamental. Learning how to manage it all...while performing in the real world in a setting that is highly challenging.

I think your son is trying to handle it. He is trying to do it. I do not think he is falling behind. I think he is trying to assimilate hard things. To emancipate and mature with a very difficult set of challenges. That is what I think. Not everybody is a plain vanilla person. Ache is complex as well as vulnerable.

I cannot speak to the cultural differences in tendency to suicide or substances. There is always something.

I know a lot about a lot...like maturation, like psychological challenges, like what goes wrong and how it does. Like what to do when it does. With my own adult child I have been baffled. Totally running behind and trying to catch up. I am seeing that he is doing it. And instead of madly trying to diagnose what is going wrong, I am able to sit back and to affirm to myself how much better it now is. I am way less freaked out. My son is almost 27. Yours is what? I forget but young. Like 21? Not yet 22?

I am still praying that my son will survive long enough to mature. That he will outlive his stupidity.

 

[SuZir]

I think that he believes that if he performs well that he is well.

This is somewhat true. Though during his more self-aware times he has been able to see the difference and has explained that at certain time period he was happy but sport was giving him hard time or that other time period he was depressed and very anxious but still playing well. But my best guess that any self awareness is out of the window currently.

I was so pissed. Not afraid. Pissed.

I was afraid, very afraid. Especially as soon as I realised it really was more a suicide attempt and less the reckless accident he tried to claim it was first. Of course it makes a difference that mine was very lucky to survive. He fell to open stream from the bridge when it was -20 F outside. Just getting out of the water was far from certain even though he is very athletic but while quick stream was keeping it open the edges were of course frozen. Getting off without icepicks was already really lucky. And it was very early morning or late night and he had 10 or 15 minutes after he got to dry land to find shelter or help before hypothermia would had made him so disorientated he wouldn't had been able to act rational. And it wasn't a busy place. He again got extremely lucky that there was this dog walker who called help and helped him stay focused and not to freeze out before the ambulance was there.

It got way too close.

I do agree that the sport is a double edged sword. It may motivate and drive him,

While situation right now is not good, it is impossible to say where we would be without sports. It is high stress occupation, that is certain. But it has also provided him supports he could not have gotten from anywhere else. And motivation to try to work it out.

And to be very callous: If this is it. If he is having onset of something that will disable him for life, it has provided him with a safety net he could not have gotten from anywhere else. He is under contract. If he is unable to play for medical reasons, he will be paid his full salary for the length of contract by insurance company and his team. That will give him amble time to regroup. If that doesn't work out and he continues to be disabled, all his future disability benefits will be based on his incomes during that time. And while he doesn't earn that type of money people are likely to think when they think pro athletes, his pay is similar to many established professionals. If it happens that has onset of illness that will disable him, that makes quite a difference to the situation where he would end up disabled while being a student or working in low income job.

Yours is what? I forget but young. Like 21? Not yet 22?

Around that, yes.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Suzir,

Am I understanding correctly? If a decision were to be made by his coaches that because of some medical condition beyond his control, like symptoms of a mental illness, he was not suitable to play for a prolonged period...they would be bound contractually to pay him his salary or a portion of it for the contract term? And subsequently if he were unable to work, his government benefits would be calculated based upon his current salary? So, not only would he not be destitute, he would have a financial basis of security to make a good life.

Perhaps I am wearing rose colored glasses. There have been people in my own life that have wanted to accept difficult things about my own son, who has already qualified for SSI for mental illness. SSI is a government benefit for permanently disabled people. It is a meager amount, but one can live.

Despite this, I believe now with my own son that as he his maturing he is making better and better choices, and will continue to. I do not believe that he will have to or want to define himself as either disabled or as mentally ill. While I understand that mental illness is not something chosen, I believe that there are a range of outcomes possible for mentally ill people, depending upon their choices. And with maturity and experience come better choices.

I see as I become more balanced and neutral about him and his situation, he is doing better and better. And I got out of the way, too. That is helping. You have done the same thing. Suzir, just because they do stupid and risky things, does not mean they do not learn. He chose to survive. That made all the difference. Yes, he could not of, but he did. He is learning.

 

[SuZir]

Am I understanding correctly? If a decision were to be made by his coaches that because of some medical condition beyond his control, like symptoms of a mental illness, he was not suitable to play for a prolonged period...they would be bound contractually to pay him his salary or a portion of it for the contract term? And subsequently if he were unable to work, his government benefits would be calculated based upon his current salary? So, not only would he not be destitute, he would have a financial basis of security to make a good life.

More or less, yes. Only way to end his contract prematurely would be that he and his team would make an agreement about it. That is usually done if player is not playing well enough. The employer pays certain part of remaining wages as compensation and player is free to find a new club. No one unable to play for longer time for medical reasons or with career ending injury would of course ever agree to that, not without being compensated fully (that happens mostly with foreign players, they can go home, club saves the housing costs and the player can start building their new life outside of sports.) Contract can be revoked without both sides agreeing only based on breach of contract. Player can revoke it, if he is not paid and club can revoke it, if player seriously breaks the contract (doesn't make themselves available for training and playing or behaves in way that gives the club permission to revoke - and that bar is quite high (doping, serious criminal activity, in-team violence, things like that.) And the clubs do not want reputation of treating their players badly, especially injured/medical leave players, because that would make it much more difficult for them to sign players they want. Every player does know that they can have career ending injury any time despite however good or professional or hard working they are.)

Disability benefits are considered occupational pensions around here and the amount is calculated like any occupational pension. Just with assumption that you would had worked till retirement age with similar salary you received before you became disabled. Though of course there is a minimum for those who do not have any work history. With that, one is just above the poverty line, but work earnings based disability benefits are bigger. And I did calculate what Ache's would be - while I desperately hope it will not come to that - and with that and assets he will inherit from us, he would be able to live a comfortable life.

But I so much hope it would not come to that. I'm seriously afrauid what would happen if he would be idle all days, especially now that he is in such a bad place. Now that he has to wake up at morning, attend practise, meet and talk with people and so on, he at least somehow stays in touch with reality. And someone also sees him everyday, talks with him everyday, would refer him, again, to doctor if there is turn to worse. In my mind so much better than ability for him to hide to his flat, eat take away and never come out.

 

[pasajes4]

I get the rather have them working than sitting around stewing in their illness. I hate down time. I am always more depressed and withdrawn when I am not working.

 

[Sam3]

SuZ.

I just returned to the forum and caught up on this thread. I hope this wonderful community can give you the fuel you need to stay with your son in the eye of the hurricane, as cedar so perfectly described it. Everyone need anchors.