Help! Is this normal for a private Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?

[Copabanana]

I think you need to take this one day at a time.

Who cares what they think of you? You're right. They are wrong. Don't get into a pissing contest with them.

Meanwhile they have zero money of yours.

And meanwhile you have no other option I am aware of.

Keep your eye on the ball. No power struggle is necessary.

I agree he needs to be able to come home. But.He does not have to come home to live with you, if I understand correctly. He can live in a Casita monitored by others (and you) in an extended family type situation. He knows this.

He's bargaining, pressuring, manipulating, playing chess. He's an idiot. Don't buy in.

Just play your own long game. Don't get distracted by theirs. Either clinic. Or L.

How are the tests going?

 

[Baggy Bags]

Swot, they do have activities like art and swimming. They say they keep them busy all day long. I hope his experience there is like what you describe yours was. But I'm keeping a close eye.

Copa, yes, he could be bargaining. This is something that I have to keep reminding myself of. I'm such a sucker. As soon as he has one nice word to say, my heart starts to melt.

 

[RN0441]

Just caught up on your post. What is going on now with your son? It must be SO hard to be SO far away and just doing all this via the phone.

Could he be bipolar? Separately, I know drug use can cause all of the symptoms you mentioned and it sounds like he's done some pretty hard core drugs.

My son was not even remotely himself when he used. I have been getting to know the real person since he returned to live with us in November. It's mind boggling at the very least!

 

[Baggy Bags]

I think he might be borderline and bipolar, like my mother, even though the psychiatrists here were convinced he's headed for ASPD.
They also thought my mom was malignant NPD. I don't know anymore. I've read about them all. They could all apply to some degree.

But I didn't know he was using cocaine or doing the other stuff as much as he was.
So, maybe it was just all extreme addict behavior. They say all addicts are NPD at least temporarily when they're using.

 

[Copabanana]

Baggy. I am not sure if the diagnosis is the important thing right now. I do not think you or anybody can know. I think that due to his age, and due to his opposition, and due to the drugs, his diagnostic picture will take time to settle. I think you are running yourself ragged, trying to nail down a diagnosis.

I think the important thing is that he be in a safe place, and that he be contained, so he can work his way through this with support. I believe you have done everything right to help him through this. And you continue to do so.

Is there any news about the neurological tests?

As far as the diagnosis, is your evolution related to what this new facility is saying? What are they saying?

 

[Baggy Bags]

They aren't saying anything yet. I gave them a few days, but I'll contact tomorrow to see when tests are happening. I don't think any have been done yet.

It is good that he is contained. Now I just need to get my adrenal system on board with this. My body still seems to interpret everything as a crisis alarm.

 

[Copabanana]

My body still seems to interpret everything as a crisis alarm.

Maybe I am the last person to learn about this, but there is a form of Yoga-type work called TRE, Tension Release, where the body is trained to release tension and trauma that it holds, by inducing shaking.

I am intrigued by it, because this is the mechanism that dogs and some other animals use (think trembling Chihuahuas, with the same aim, to let go of traumatic responses to predators.

They must have this where you live. I read that learning the movement sequence can occur in just 3 sessions, and that you can do it a home. I did not get myself to the classes, but I am thinking of paying for a couple of privates.

Why not look for it, where you live? Did you ever look around to see if anybody in your area does Somatic Experiencing Therapy? I am having a powerful response to it. It operates with some of the same principles.

I can't wait to hear what, if anything, the tests show. And I will be so interested when they begin to speak to diagnosis, despite the fact that I won't give it much credence. Like SWOT, I think too little is knowable, at least for the next year or so. I have to say that unlike nearly everybody else, I have a good feeling about this place. (I hope.)

 

[Baggy Bags]

I will definitely ask on our community board if there are any TRE yoga teachers in town. That does sound interesting, and I remember reading that about dogs, but never heard of TRE. Somatic Experience Therapy I have looked for, it's a matter of waiting, so many therapists come through, eventually someone will come. And the Rolfing helped, but the effects didn't last as completely as I was hoping.

Copa, I've had you in my ear about L saying what he said to get the cabin. It would have never occurred to me, but you are so right. If he wasn't thinking of coming back, he would have said that he can't live in this town, but he just said that can't live with "me". Anyway, you're a genius.

 

[mentalcase]

Baggy Bags - I was considering sending my son to his dad in south America and putting him in a residential treatment center. Although $3000 a month is nothing here, in latin America that's probably a pretty posh place. I think there can be some very good places over there. I would keep an open mind and give it a chance personally. Of course, getting the info you want from them is important so that you feel comfortable...but I'd rather my son be somewhere like that than in the streets...plus, I'm sure having an ex pats kid is another little bit of protection. (I'm assuming you are an expat).

If you are really worried, you could always go there yourself and check out the place. Or have someone you trust check it out - just for some reassurance. Full disclosure -I know absolutely nothing about inpatient treatment, mind you...I don't know what is normal or not but I lived in Latin America half my life and I've found some excellent doctors and medical treatment. Just something to mull over....

I would not take him back into my home until he had been in recovery a while and I feel myself and my other kids would be safe. I have to look out for what's in the best interest of all of my household. That's your call, but think about it.

 

[Copabanana]

Although $3000 a month is nothing here, in latin America that's probably a pretty posh place.

Seriously here. I was looking up old people's homes in Buenos Aires because I worry that when I am very, very old I will not have anybody to help me (especially if my son stays the same.) I am Spanish-speaking too. I would consider it in a heart-beat. For me.

 

[RN0441]

My son's very first residential treatment - he was 15 and smoking weed only - was $25k per month. It was posh. They had a one million dollar koi pond on the property. It was a great place but he was too young to change. He got much much worse as time went on.

Our insurance covered most of it but we did pay too! But we were desperate to fix. We were very naive back then.

 

[Baggy Bags]

25k monthly!!! Woah.
This place has a pool, but it doesn't look super posh. But yeah, no one here (or in Mexico) has insurance for this kind of thing, so it's all out of pocket. And that means that it's all children of relatively well-off people (by local standards).

Bio-dad is paying for this one, since he never paid child support, he's under my threat of suing him for 15 years back pay, or dealing with this now.
I even helped him out by telling him about a friend of mine who was willing to help out financially. Between the two of them, they can pay for the 3-months program.
It's not costing me a penny. I even insisted he put $1000 in my bank account in the case I need to travel there.

Saturdays are the days I can call, so I can talk to my son tomorrow. Well, we don't really talk. I ask him if he's okay, he said "yes" the first two times and then "more or less" the third time. There was just the one time that he went into confession mode and told me about all the drugs he'd used. Besides that, calls have been under 30 seconds. They say he's not participating and just wanting to stay in his room.

I'm feeling so stupid. My son lied to me soooo much more than I even begin to understand. I was so hypnotized by his Mama's Boy act. But then I read some of your stories, and I guess I should be grateful that he didn't unleash his craziness on ME until the last year before he left (I can't imagine living through that for years and years). Then I went from being his ally to being his enemy. Just like they say about NPDs, as soon as I saw through the mask, all of his "love" for me turned into demonic rage.

Now that he has confessed to using coke. Get this. DMT and crack smell very similarly when being burned. I once smelled what I thought was DMT, followed the smell, and found my son nervously tossing something in the yard. Months later, when the pressure was on, he said it had been DMT in a joint, but I think my son was smoking crack IN MY HOUSE at 14!!! *for those of you about to google DMT, it's a hallucinogen that takes the user on a 10-minute trip. It's described as the drug that will bring you the closest to death and show you parallel dimensions. It's not a pleasant or fun trip. It can be very spiritual or very scary.

He had all the information. I've been educating him about drugs since he could hold a conversation. I warned him so many times of the consequences, especially on the developing brain. I could believe he'd take hallucinogens (because of the info he had), but never ever ever would MY child smoke CRACK! He knew better. I believed this so completely.

And now I have to throw hard drugs into the mix of possible answers to all of this. Crack makes people crazy. If he was smoking crack, the CD diagnosis means nothing. The NPD behavior means nothing. All addicts are narcissists while they're using.

What I can't wrap my head around is that he was still doing well at homeschooling - retaining information, completing assignments... I DON'T GET IT. All of it just boggles my mind constantly. Nothing makes sense, but there's this sensation that the answer is standing right in front of me and I can't see it because I don't want to.

 

[BusynMember]

Baggy, my daughter is sweet and kind, even empathic, but not during her drug years. We thought it was only pot for a long time. After she quit, she seemed to have a need to confess all and if course as a loving parent I listedne, even though it was so hard to hear. Brutal
Scary.

Instead of pot only she drank a lot, did cocaine, meth and tried hallucinigetics and even heroin twice. What saved her from strong addiction is that she was terrified of needles. Everything was snorted. Believe it or not, that matters! She quit without rehab. There was no internet back then. I knew no addicts but her. I never heard of a drug rehab.

She did go to a hospital and they said they believed she didnt take drugs. I so dislike tje mental health community at times. It is so inexact and full of gueswork. Question everything!

She wouldnt. have gone to a rehab anyway.

She also gave me advice after she quit (about 14 years now). Well, she quit at 20and is now 35. And thriving. And we are very close. Have hope!

But this never left my head. And she was very emphatic.

. "Never trust a drug user,/addict (I forget what word she said). They lie. All.The.Time."

A beaitiful environment does not mean.the facility is better. Ditto for paying more money.

A lot of that is the people running the program and the mindset of the perspn they are trying to.help. And sometimes kids are dragged into hospitals kicking and screaming and suddenly something resonates and they suddenly.surrender to.the program and get better.

No matter how close we were to our kids pre-drug they turn into liars and often thieves after. You dont get the truth about their activities.

Love and light! Bags, you are very strong. Never forget that. This is hard!

25k monthly!!! Woah.
This place has a pool, but it doesn't look super posh. But yeah, no one here (or in Mexico) has insurance for this kind of thing, so it's all out of pocket. And that means that it's all children of relatively well-off people (by local standards).

Bio-dad is paying for this one, since he never paid child support, he's under my threat of suing him for 15 years back pay, or dealing with this now.
I even helped him out by telling him about a friend of mine who was willing to help out financially. Between the two of them, they can pay for the 3-months program.
It's not costing me a penny. I even insisted he put $1000 in my bank account in the case I need to travel there.

Saturdays are the days I can call, so I can talk to my son tomorrow. Well, we don't really talk. I ask him if he's okay, he said "yes" the first two times and then "more or less" the third time. There was just the one time that he went into confession mode and told me about all the drugs he'd used. Besides that, calls have been under 30 seconds. They say he's not participating and just wanting to stay in his room.

I'm feeling so stupid. My son lied to me soooo much more than I even begin to understand. I was so hypnotized by his Mama's Boy act. But then I read some of your stories, and I guess I should be grateful that he didn't unleash his craziness on ME until the last year before he left (I can't imagine living through that for years and years). Then I went from being his ally to being his enemy. Just like they say about NPDs, as soon as I saw through the mask, all of his "love" for me turned into demonic rage.

Now that he has confessed to using coke. Get this. DMT and crack smell very similarly when being burned. I once smelled what I thought was DMT, followed the smell, and found my son nervously tossing something in the yard. Months later, when the pressure was on, he said it had been DMT in a joint, but I think my son was smoking crack IN MY HOUSE at 14!!! *for those of you about to google DMT, it's a hallucinogen that takes the user on a 10-minute trip. It's described as the drug that will bring you the closest to death and show you parallel dimensions. It's not a pleasant or fun trip. It can be very spiritual or very scary.

He had all the information. I've been educating him about drugs since he could hold a conversation. I warned him so many times of the consequences, especially on the developing brain. I could believe he'd take hallucinogens (because of the info he had), but never ever ever would MY child smoke CRACK! He knew better. I believed this so completely.

And now I have to throw hard drugs into the mix of possible answers to all of this. Crack makes people crazy. If he was smoking crack, the CD diagnosis means nothing. The NPD behavior means nothing. All addicts are narcissists while they're using.

What I can't wrap my head around is that he was still doing well at homeschooling - retaining information, completing assignments... I DON'T GET IT. All of it just boggles my mind constantly. Nothing makes sense, but there's this sensation that the answer is standing right in front of me and I can't see it because I don't want to.

 

[Copabanana]

I don't see your son's behavior as that nefarious or evil. He concealed. He compartmentalized. He lied. To serve a grater goal.

The reality of the drug use and his immaturity, renders his brain power virtually useless. He did nothing to act in the main against you. Until you opposed, thwarted, his aims. He also had to defeat and deny and kill iff his great love and need of and dependence on you.

 

[Baggy Bags]

The mercury was premeditated evil. He also, the year prior to the violence, led us to believe that our house was haunted, remember? He even broke all our computers and blamed it on ghosts. He actually had us going there for a while, and was already using by then. Then it stopped (the "haunting"). We had a little break. And then he started the running away and being violent. Sometimes it's easier for me to believe that he's possessed, than to try finding a scientific answer.

 

[BusynMember]

The problem is that psychiatry uses almost no science, just theory. I have been in the psychiatric commutniy since age 23 and still go to therapy sometimes. They really are giving us theoretical answers. They cant even prove that behaviors known as mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Its a theory that will likely change as somebody actually finds the exact answer but that has not happened yet.

Doctors are not even sure why certain medications work sometimes to control certain behaviors. It is all guesswork, just like it was when I was 23. The DSM changes but still nothing can be scientifically proven or determined.

That is why difficult/odd/disturbing behavior is so frustrating. We really have no scientific way to pinpoint why it is or what will work. I would worry less about an unprovable label and more about changing the behavior. There are some really good behavioral therapies. They can really help if the patient wants the help!

I still am not sure why I get depressed without medications and why my medications work (and it took ten years of trying out medications before finding one that works). Nobody scientifically knows why some people gets depressed or why the medications I take work. I am just glad I got relief, but I have no scientific answers. Nobody does yet.

 

[Baggy Bags]

I wish the psychiatrists weren't so frickin arrogant. They act like they really know what they're talking about.
My PTSD comes partially from having to deal with them, knowing that they weren't right about everything, and then being treated like I'm crazy for questioning them.

My heart starts to race every time I have to talk to anyone from the psychiatric community.

 

[RN0441]

There is really nothing worse than a bad psychiatrist.

Ours got my son addicted to Benzos.

He knew he was abusing them but kept prescribing and I went along with it like an idiot. My husband was trying to stop it. I wouldn't listen.

Hindsight is 20/20 for me.

 

[BusynMember]

I understand.

I am not afraid but long ago I stopped believing they know anything for sure. If somebody wants to know if they have arthritis or diabetes or epilepsy there are very specific tests you can take to show the doctors. They can SEE the illnesses on x-rays or blood tests.

ll you think you have bipolar, antisocial personality disorder, or schizophrenia there is no way for a doctor to run scientific tests to prove what is going on; to confirm. They cant see anything; dont even know where to look.

Thats why in psychiatry the same person can get ten different opinions from ten different people. There are so many diagnostic mistakes. That is why I focused mostly on change I wanted to make. In therapy. And I was sick enough with depression to try medications, but it took forever for the right medication to be found for my type of depression, whatever kind it was. A form of mild bipolar? Maybe. I never really had full blown mania so who knows? They call everything bipolar but they cant prove it so you never know if its right....

It is all very much guesswork as far as a diagnosis but an exact answer isnt necessary to change your outlook or behavior or way of treating yourself and others. It just takes self awareness and motivation.

I suspect they will find physiological answers to all these behaviors one day...provable ones...but they are sadly a far way from that.

Hold onto hope. Your son is very young.

Take care of you!!

 

[Copabanana]

The mercury was premeditated evil

OK. I had forgotten about this. But wasn't this when he was psychotic?

led us to believe that our house was haunted, remember? He even broke all our computers and blamed it on ghosts.

I didn't know about this. How novel! I am not being cute here.

My heart starts to race every time I have to talk to anyone from the psychiatric community.

I will not take this personally....

Let me tell you where I stand with respect to evil. I stand in the same place here as I do with the residential treatment center.

And that place is called: What gives you the strongest and most defensible place to stand, the greater range of options and flexibility, as is possible given the circumstances right now.

In terms of the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), there is no other option that I know about. Therefore, your interests are served powerfully by having them in the picture.

With respect to evil, your interests are NOT served by going there. Evil is in a realm where there is no recourse that I have, at least. Maybe there are exorcisms or other religious interventions that are options for some parents, but in my own life, I would not avail myself of these options...and I do not believe most of the rest of us would go there. So. Personally, I do not think positing evil helps me, or helps most of us...because I cannot think of reasonable and realistic and available responses. To evil. And I want you to have answers, help, support, and flexibility...and most of all, reasonable answers and interventions.

Like SWOT describes herself, as a pragmatist, as a realist--I guess I land there too.