I totally agree!
How to even talk on the phone with my son....
- Thread starter Copabanana
- Start date
nlj
Well-Known Member
It is often impossible to talk with my son. He becomes angry about so many things - environmental, political, social, economic, etc.
I follow this mantra:
Think twice before saying nothing.
Sometimes I can change the subject to something 'safe' and am able to speak for a while about mundane things. Most often this is not possible and I know it is best to end the conversation until another day.
I completely agree with SWOT that different points of view and different beliefs do not mean mental illness. Many religious beliefs, when considered objectively, are no more bonkers than your son's beliefs.
My own son has views about society that, when considered objectively, are true. The world is very full of destruction, evil and corruption. The problem is my son's way of expressing his views and refusal to listen to any other points of view. His method of expressing his views is inappropriate, because it is extreme, it is aggressive, it is like being lectured, not having a 'conversation'. I won't be drawn into such a one-sided situation, so I say nothing.
When I was a little girl I used to be very frightened of 'street preachers'. They would appear, with their pamphlets, ranting about Hell and sin and being 'saved by the lord'. I used to hide behind my mother and shake with fear. Was this their intention? I'm sure it wasn't. But their approach was completely wrong. It was negative and aggressive and arrogant and forceful. My son reminds me of these crazy street preachers sometimes. He tries to tell me about things, and I might be interested if he was calm and measured and logical, but his approach is completely wrong. So I do not engage with him. I follow my mantra.
I follow this mantra:
Think twice before saying nothing.
Sometimes I can change the subject to something 'safe' and am able to speak for a while about mundane things. Most often this is not possible and I know it is best to end the conversation until another day.
I completely agree with SWOT that different points of view and different beliefs do not mean mental illness. Many religious beliefs, when considered objectively, are no more bonkers than your son's beliefs.
My own son has views about society that, when considered objectively, are true. The world is very full of destruction, evil and corruption. The problem is my son's way of expressing his views and refusal to listen to any other points of view. His method of expressing his views is inappropriate, because it is extreme, it is aggressive, it is like being lectured, not having a 'conversation'. I won't be drawn into such a one-sided situation, so I say nothing.
When I was a little girl I used to be very frightened of 'street preachers'. They would appear, with their pamphlets, ranting about Hell and sin and being 'saved by the lord'. I used to hide behind my mother and shake with fear. Was this their intention? I'm sure it wasn't. But their approach was completely wrong. It was negative and aggressive and arrogant and forceful. My son reminds me of these crazy street preachers sometimes. He tries to tell me about things, and I might be interested if he was calm and measured and logical, but his approach is completely wrong. So I do not engage with him. I follow my mantra.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Lucy, that's what I meant, but you said it better. When it comes to kooky (in our opinion) yet deeply ingrained beliefs by another person...be it political, religious, or conspiracy theories...why even discuss it. The two of you are not going to change your minds and it is upsetting for us as parents to deal with some of our Difficult Child's beliefs. That's why I think the best responses are to either say, "Well, then let's agree to disagree" and move on to a neutral topic or, if they are persistent in trying to talk you into their "crazy," just say, "Oh! I forgot! Marge is here for lunch. Got to go." And then go.
I think it is best not to comment on your own opinion of what you feel is crazy and I can't see it as a mental illness. People who read enough stuff (and the internet encourages this) about how our government is destroying us and will show up at our doorstep any moment to put us in Concentration CAmps (yes, I've heard this conspiracy theory on my politics channel) are going to stick to listening to only people who agree with them and that ingrains this and fuelds this paranoia. We can not change their destructive or crazy sounding mindset anymore than they can make us believe it. And they have many others who agree with their paranoid thinking so they are validated. We can't stop that. What we can do is redirect the conversation or end it. And we can do it without telling them they are nuts or ending on an angry note.
It's the calmest way, and also the healthiest for us, to refuse to talk about politics, the world, whatever with a person who can not hold a rational conversation. "I have to go" is my normal way of dealing with people who try to get me to believe in some political or religious stuff that I am really not wanting to hear.
Lucy, where we used to live we had very nice neighbors next door but they were also EXTREMELY passionate about their religion, so much so that they felt the need to talk us into going to services with them. We quickly learned to beeline for cover when they came outside with their pamphlets and smiles. Nobody in my opinion has a right to try to get us to think like they think. But I also don't think we have a right to invalidate them by saying we think they are crazy. Best to just avoid the confrontation.
"Less is more." I believe this more and more each day.
I think it is best not to comment on your own opinion of what you feel is crazy and I can't see it as a mental illness. People who read enough stuff (and the internet encourages this) about how our government is destroying us and will show up at our doorstep any moment to put us in Concentration CAmps (yes, I've heard this conspiracy theory on my politics channel) are going to stick to listening to only people who agree with them and that ingrains this and fuelds this paranoia. We can not change their destructive or crazy sounding mindset anymore than they can make us believe it. And they have many others who agree with their paranoid thinking so they are validated. We can't stop that. What we can do is redirect the conversation or end it. And we can do it without telling them they are nuts or ending on an angry note.
It's the calmest way, and also the healthiest for us, to refuse to talk about politics, the world, whatever with a person who can not hold a rational conversation. "I have to go" is my normal way of dealing with people who try to get me to believe in some political or religious stuff that I am really not wanting to hear.
Lucy, where we used to live we had very nice neighbors next door but they were also EXTREMELY passionate about their religion, so much so that they felt the need to talk us into going to services with them. We quickly learned to beeline for cover when they came outside with their pamphlets and smiles. Nobody in my opinion has a right to try to get us to think like they think. But I also don't think we have a right to invalidate them by saying we think they are crazy. Best to just avoid the confrontation.
"Less is more." I believe this more and more each day.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
Copa?
From the bottom of my heart, I do love you. I believe in you. I know who you are from the nature of your posts and I know, I know Copa, that you will come through this stable and strong and kind. There are so many things we don't know, but what we do know is that we are strong enough, or we would not have survived our childhoods.
Not in one piece, we wouldn't.
Well, maybe we survived as mosaics.
In any event, here we are.
I will post the mosaic poem for you Copa.
***
Now is time to reclaim ourselves; maybe, Copa, because our children need us to do that. Well, alright, then. What are our weapons, what will we choose as we go along, how will we know we are on the right path?
We have our integrity, we have our beautiful, creative brains, and we have time.
There is nothing we need that we do not already have.
There is nothing we need to do, and there is nothing we can do; believe it or not, things are unfolding as they should. Our job is to to remain present.
That's it.
Just that one, little thing.
I am afraid, too. That is alright. It is a very right thing to acknowledge fear. But it doesn't change anything, to be afraid. Lean into it, Copa. Look and lean right into the fear of it, from simple to complex to overwhelming. We suffer. That is just a fact. Learn it, Copa. Learn what it is, and let it be what it is.
You have your guidelines, for how to interpret it. Integrity: Don't believe in lies, and try not to tell them. Reality is a slippery thing to pin down. That is a very true thing.
Like trying to make sense of a kaliedescope.
So, we get to choose the parameters, and make of it what we will.
Which, once we have the integrity part and kind of let up on ourselves because who knows how to do this not me and not you and not anyone in authority either, it doesn't seem like. (Remember, Lord of the Flies? Very true.) So, we will just do the best we can, then.
And that will be enough, and more than enough.
Which is fortunate, because that is all there is.
Well, that and the sunrise and the hummingbirds and all the overwhelming beauty there is, everywhere we look, everywhere we see the joy, underlying all things.
***
Ours is an ugly story.
Simple truth. No judgment in it.
There is purpose, though we cannot see it.
You know already, perhaps, that in Russia, it was believed those who were mentally ill had been touched by God. They wandered the streets then, too. But they were considered holy. Rasputin was such a one. That is why the Czarina believed in him.
And he was able to cure her little boy, though the doctors could not.
Go figure.
No one ~ no one ~ can say for sure what is happening to our kids. Is it drugs? Mental illness? Revelation? I don't know. I don't know anything at all, anymore. I love not having to be the one who knows stuff. Religions are built on just the kinds of things our children see and say when they are "not right in the head".
I don't know what to do with that, either.
But I do know that whatever comes next, I want to love my children, my husband, myself. My animals, my home.
Stuff like that.
I don't know what to do about or think about my family of origin, so I keep posting away, hoping I will fall in love with them somehow too, but so far, no go on that one. So, okay then, I will take a minute here and cherish what I do have. The sun, rising. The way the light comes up, and the tiny birds, and the broad wingspanned ones. There is a mated pair of hummingbirds at my feeder, this morning. They are tiny, and so perfect, Copa.
I need to see things like that.
That is where we can begin to love ourselves, and our places in the world, though we suffer. Only through joy, and that is right in front of us, always. There is a quote, Copa. Something about the joy underlying all things. That in our darkest hour, if we look just beneath, we will find the joy of creation itself, underlying all the smallest, most miraculous things.
Right there.
None of that matters when we are in the thick of it; when we are afraid.
But that doesn't mean it isn't there.
That is the light Albatross posts about, the light breaking in the song, "Halleluiah."
We are here on purpose, Copa. I don't exactly know why either. But I do know that we matter, that what we do matters, that we can change the quality of the light that will shine on long after we are gone.
That's all I know.
It isn't enough. I have no proof. I am trying to figure out my salvation, surrounded by my rotten, bingo-crazy relations, too.
:O)
So, we proceed on faith. Hearts in our throats, flying by the seats of our pants so fast! But we are moving, Copa. So, that is good, then.
You are doing so well, Copa.
I am sorry for the pain of it.
I am sorry for that, Copa. I don't know why it has to be that way.
Viktor Frankel, Ellie Hilesum, Charles Williams, Frank Herbert ~ these writers will help you recenter, I think Copa. They have been very good, for me.
Richard Rohr.
Maria Harris: The Dance of Women's Spirituality
Karen Armstrong. A Catholic nun who lost her faith, she writes about spirit and belief and breaking and growing and standing up, so strong.
We are all on a journey of one kind or another, Copa. If we weren't strong enough to do it, strong enough to complete the task, we would be walking a different, less strenuous path. But here is something I do know: Every one of us is carrying more than he can bear.
Everyone you meet, all those you will never meet.
Each of us, about his business, breaking and breaking and breaking, every single day.
You can do this; you are doing it. I read something once that at the touch of Time, we will understand. So, I didn't much care for that. But I was desperate and so, I hung on to that, for awhile. At the end of it, as near as I can figure it out anyway, you come into a new way of seeing, of cherishing. But I think that may be a choice based on our initial spiritual realities. Some people were mean to begin with, and just keep on getting meaner.
What to hay, right? How can they see the same things I do and willfully choose hate?
Mostly, I don't know so much about those kinds of things.
But here we are together, and that is better than alone.
Then you will be here with us for a very long time. And you will break, and you will grow into the broken places, and break again. Our daughter deserted her kids, went homeless, chose the streets and the men who live on them. She was beat and left for dead. (As was Maya Angelou. Did anyone know that? I will have to tell daughter that.) We thought she would be brain damaged and were preparing to take care of her for the rest of her life. But that is not what happened.
She was a math teacher with four children, Copa.
None of this was supposed to happen. But it did.
Nothing about any of this stuff happening to us and to our kids makes sense.
It just is what it is.
You are here with us, now. No one can know what is coming. Begin a tool box, Copa. A quote box to make you strong and to free you and to release the joy in you so you can claim it.
That is the way to do this thing.
I am sorry, Copa. I would tell you how to do it if I knew. I do know you will come through it. I do know you will be strong, and unafraid, when you do. Or rather, that fear will be a choice for you, not the overwhelming bottomlessness it is, now.
And that is the only thing I know.
I'm so sorry, Copa...but you won't survive it. You will come through it.
There is a book, Descent Into Hell, by Charles Williams. The heroine meets her own fear, and is completed. She is able to see, once she faces herself with love and power, that her life had been a pale imitation of what it was finally be. It's the most beautifully written book, Copa. Charles Williams was a compatriot of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien. They would sit around in cafes at the ends of the days and talk and think and figure things out and then, go write about them.
Sort of like we do, here.
Thank you, Copa. Telling my story, remembering the incredible places I have been, makes my story a sacred thing, to me.
Wow, right, Copa?
Life is amazing.
But those are all just words, just things I see. In my real life, I am hurt. I am afraid, too.
I get all ugly and eat too much or drink too much and etc. That's okay. It's a practice, Copa. We set our sights on how we intend to do this. And we break and break and break.
Cedar
From the bottom of my heart, I do love you. I believe in you. I know who you are from the nature of your posts and I know, I know Copa, that you will come through this stable and strong and kind. There are so many things we don't know, but what we do know is that we are strong enough, or we would not have survived our childhoods.
Not in one piece, we wouldn't.
Well, maybe we survived as mosaics.
In any event, here we are.
I will post the mosaic poem for you Copa.
***
Now is time to reclaim ourselves; maybe, Copa, because our children need us to do that. Well, alright, then. What are our weapons, what will we choose as we go along, how will we know we are on the right path?
We have our integrity, we have our beautiful, creative brains, and we have time.
There is nothing we need that we do not already have.
There is nothing we need to do, and there is nothing we can do; believe it or not, things are unfolding as they should. Our job is to to remain present.
That's it.
Just that one, little thing.
I am afraid, too. That is alright. It is a very right thing to acknowledge fear. But it doesn't change anything, to be afraid. Lean into it, Copa. Look and lean right into the fear of it, from simple to complex to overwhelming. We suffer. That is just a fact. Learn it, Copa. Learn what it is, and let it be what it is.
You have your guidelines, for how to interpret it. Integrity: Don't believe in lies, and try not to tell them. Reality is a slippery thing to pin down. That is a very true thing.
Like trying to make sense of a kaliedescope.
So, we get to choose the parameters, and make of it what we will.
Which, once we have the integrity part and kind of let up on ourselves because who knows how to do this not me and not you and not anyone in authority either, it doesn't seem like. (Remember, Lord of the Flies? Very true.) So, we will just do the best we can, then.
And that will be enough, and more than enough.
Which is fortunate, because that is all there is.
Well, that and the sunrise and the hummingbirds and all the overwhelming beauty there is, everywhere we look, everywhere we see the joy, underlying all things.
***
Ours is an ugly story.
Simple truth. No judgment in it.
There is purpose, though we cannot see it.
You know already, perhaps, that in Russia, it was believed those who were mentally ill had been touched by God. They wandered the streets then, too. But they were considered holy. Rasputin was such a one. That is why the Czarina believed in him.
And he was able to cure her little boy, though the doctors could not.
Go figure.
No one ~ no one ~ can say for sure what is happening to our kids. Is it drugs? Mental illness? Revelation? I don't know. I don't know anything at all, anymore. I love not having to be the one who knows stuff. Religions are built on just the kinds of things our children see and say when they are "not right in the head".
I don't know what to do with that, either.
But I do know that whatever comes next, I want to love my children, my husband, myself. My animals, my home.
Stuff like that.
I don't know what to do about or think about my family of origin, so I keep posting away, hoping I will fall in love with them somehow too, but so far, no go on that one. So, okay then, I will take a minute here and cherish what I do have. The sun, rising. The way the light comes up, and the tiny birds, and the broad wingspanned ones. There is a mated pair of hummingbirds at my feeder, this morning. They are tiny, and so perfect, Copa.
I need to see things like that.
That is where we can begin to love ourselves, and our places in the world, though we suffer. Only through joy, and that is right in front of us, always. There is a quote, Copa. Something about the joy underlying all things. That in our darkest hour, if we look just beneath, we will find the joy of creation itself, underlying all the smallest, most miraculous things.
Right there.
None of that matters when we are in the thick of it; when we are afraid.
But that doesn't mean it isn't there.
That is the light Albatross posts about, the light breaking in the song, "Halleluiah."
We are here on purpose, Copa. I don't exactly know why either. But I do know that we matter, that what we do matters, that we can change the quality of the light that will shine on long after we are gone.
That's all I know.
It isn't enough. I have no proof. I am trying to figure out my salvation, surrounded by my rotten, bingo-crazy relations, too.
:O)
So, we proceed on faith. Hearts in our throats, flying by the seats of our pants so fast! But we are moving, Copa. So, that is good, then.
You are doing so well, Copa.
I am sorry for the pain of it.
I am sorry for that, Copa. I don't know why it has to be that way.
Viktor Frankel, Ellie Hilesum, Charles Williams, Frank Herbert ~ these writers will help you recenter, I think Copa. They have been very good, for me.
Richard Rohr.
Maria Harris: The Dance of Women's Spirituality
Karen Armstrong. A Catholic nun who lost her faith, she writes about spirit and belief and breaking and growing and standing up, so strong.
We are all on a journey of one kind or another, Copa. If we weren't strong enough to do it, strong enough to complete the task, we would be walking a different, less strenuous path. But here is something I do know: Every one of us is carrying more than he can bear.
Everyone you meet, all those you will never meet.
Each of us, about his business, breaking and breaking and breaking, every single day.
You can do this; you are doing it. I read something once that at the touch of Time, we will understand. So, I didn't much care for that. But I was desperate and so, I hung on to that, for awhile. At the end of it, as near as I can figure it out anyway, you come into a new way of seeing, of cherishing. But I think that may be a choice based on our initial spiritual realities. Some people were mean to begin with, and just keep on getting meaner.
What to hay, right? How can they see the same things I do and willfully choose hate?
Mostly, I don't know so much about those kinds of things.
But here we are together, and that is better than alone.
Then you will be here with us for a very long time. And you will break, and you will grow into the broken places, and break again. Our daughter deserted her kids, went homeless, chose the streets and the men who live on them. She was beat and left for dead. (As was Maya Angelou. Did anyone know that? I will have to tell daughter that.) We thought she would be brain damaged and were preparing to take care of her for the rest of her life. But that is not what happened.
She was a math teacher with four children, Copa.
None of this was supposed to happen. But it did.
Nothing about any of this stuff happening to us and to our kids makes sense.
It just is what it is.
You are here with us, now. No one can know what is coming. Begin a tool box, Copa. A quote box to make you strong and to free you and to release the joy in you so you can claim it.
That is the way to do this thing.
I am sorry, Copa. I would tell you how to do it if I knew. I do know you will come through it. I do know you will be strong, and unafraid, when you do. Or rather, that fear will be a choice for you, not the overwhelming bottomlessness it is, now.
And that is the only thing I know.
I'm so sorry, Copa...but you won't survive it. You will come through it.
There is a book, Descent Into Hell, by Charles Williams. The heroine meets her own fear, and is completed. She is able to see, once she faces herself with love and power, that her life had been a pale imitation of what it was finally be. It's the most beautifully written book, Copa. Charles Williams was a compatriot of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien. They would sit around in cafes at the ends of the days and talk and think and figure things out and then, go write about them.
Sort of like we do, here.
Thank you, Copa. Telling my story, remembering the incredible places I have been, makes my story a sacred thing, to me.
Wow, right, Copa?
Life is amazing.
But those are all just words, just things I see. In my real life, I am hurt. I am afraid, too.
I get all ugly and eat too much or drink too much and etc. That's okay. It's a practice, Copa. We set our sights on how we intend to do this. And we break and break and break.
Cedar
hopeandjoy66
Member
Copa, my husband uses the word mania in regards to his bipolar son. I like to keep in mind that bipolar mania can be brought on by natural imbalances in the brain through stress or trauma. This is when they need to go and get their medicine tweeked to return to a more balanced level. To me this is completely different than a mania that is brought on by drug abuse. I don't like to putting them into the same category. I think a drug induced mania is much more intense, ie.. violent, anger and way more delusional and is intentional, in my humble opinion.
What is it that our bipolar Difficult Child's, they have researched the medication that a doctor has prescribed and will tell you that it is poison, but for some reason taking meth is okay in there mind.(Google meth and it is absolutely all poisonous chemicals that go into the making of this stuff.) I guess this thinking is drug addiction talking.
Anyhow, you are doing great Copa. We are hear to listen and support you.
What is it that our bipolar Difficult Child's, they have researched the medication that a doctor has prescribed and will tell you that it is poison, but for some reason taking meth is okay in there mind.(Google meth and it is absolutely all poisonous chemicals that go into the making of this stuff.) I guess this thinking is drug addiction talking.
Anyhow, you are doing great Copa. We are hear to listen and support you.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
I love this.
So true.
I hate those commercials. I love the way you've described my nervous breakdown, Tish!
:O)
Ha, Tish!
True.
Well, looks like I am quoting your whole post, Tish.
I love it.
"But the time for support and editorializing is over."
Yes.
And that is respect.
Yes! I love this.
Beautifully expressed, Tish.
Yep. I love the part about sitting outside your bedroom door going on and on. That is just how it feels to be us.
I wonder why they do these things? They all seem to be doing it. It is exhausting.
And at the end of all that listening, I don't feel like I have accomplished a darn thing. That's the problem. How to do this.
Or how not to, without feeling terrible about ourselves.
There was some loss of touch with reality for daughter during this. Very scary to her. She knew it wasn't really real, but it seemed real.
Very scary for me, too.
Somehow, she was able to hang on through that.
I found a TED talk by a woman who came back from severe dissociative illness. She did it by accepting that the things she saw and heard, no matter how scary, were parts of herself. She went on to take a Master's and is working on her doctorate, now.
medications were not working for her. She went homeless, was hopelessly psychotic, according to her own report.
Wow.
True.
Kaliedescope, right?
On the fridge it goes.
I love this.
Cedar
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Busy crying. Be back with you later.
You're doing a good job Copa. It's a tough journey.
A turning point for me was realizing I did not have to respond. I thought I did. I was reading a number of books by Pema Chodron at the time, in particular, Living with uncertainty, where she talks about "refraining." I began doing that with my daughter. Whereas before, I was sort of spring-loaded to have a response, helping, offering guidance, jumping in in some manner........isn't that what a mother is supposed to do?
It was uncomfortable to not respond. That empty space in between being confronted with a problem or an inquiry or a strange statement......was weird.... I so wanted to jump in there. But, it made sense to me to practice this. Without my responses, my daughter had nothing to fight against, that neutrality in the air was different for her as well as me. The script had changed. In the empty space between us, we were both freed up to respond in a different way. And, it was a practice, I did not master this right away. It took time to break the patterning.
I believe when we back out of the dialogue, when we are refraining, the energy changes......the silence allows something different to evolve.......new thinking has an opportunity to grow.......
Hang in there. We've all been where you are now.......we're here for you. You're not alone.
A turning point for me was realizing I did not have to respond. I thought I did. I was reading a number of books by Pema Chodron at the time, in particular, Living with uncertainty, where she talks about "refraining." I began doing that with my daughter. Whereas before, I was sort of spring-loaded to have a response, helping, offering guidance, jumping in in some manner........isn't that what a mother is supposed to do?
It was uncomfortable to not respond. That empty space in between being confronted with a problem or an inquiry or a strange statement......was weird.... I so wanted to jump in there. But, it made sense to me to practice this. Without my responses, my daughter had nothing to fight against, that neutrality in the air was different for her as well as me. The script had changed. In the empty space between us, we were both freed up to respond in a different way. And, it was a practice, I did not master this right away. It took time to break the patterning.
I believe when we back out of the dialogue, when we are refraining, the energy changes......the silence allows something different to evolve.......new thinking has an opportunity to grow.......
Hang in there. We've all been where you are now.......we're here for you. You're not alone.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much RecoveringEnabler. Hold me in your heart strongly, please. My son just called and he is kicked out from where he has been staying. I told him: OK. You can come here to talk. Only to talk. Not to stay. To plan your next step. Which is yours to make.
I will hold you close Copa. I know the place where you are.
My daughter has been thrown out of more places than I have actually lived in my entire life. Each time was a trauma for me. Each time I practiced refraining. Each time, as the fear for her strangled my heart........(and sometimes I couldn't help myself, I couldn't stop my mothering.......my holding on........) I would, like you are doing, take one step back.......and then another........and another........for quite some time.........until I was finally over here.........and she was over there.............and we were not enmeshed anymore............
It's a process Copa........we can only do what we can do..........you hold on.......I'll hold on with you.........hold on to YOU. Let him hold on to him.
My daughter has been thrown out of more places than I have actually lived in my entire life. Each time was a trauma for me. Each time I practiced refraining. Each time, as the fear for her strangled my heart........(and sometimes I couldn't help myself, I couldn't stop my mothering.......my holding on........) I would, like you are doing, take one step back.......and then another........and another........for quite some time.........until I was finally over here.........and she was over there.............and we were not enmeshed anymore............
It's a process Copa........we can only do what we can do..........you hold on.......I'll hold on with you.........hold on to YOU. Let him hold on to him.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Hope and Joy, I thank you for this true post. Bipolar mania and drug induced mania are different and having drug induced mania does not mean you have bipolar disorder, which is greatly misunderstood.
My daughter was diagnosed with "bipolar" when she took drugs too and she had moodswings like crazy. Well, eleven years alter and no drugs and her "bipolar" magically disappeared.
It is not the same thing at all. You can definitely trigger bipolar symptoms by using specific drugs, espeically speed, meth or heroin, but that's the drug, not real bipolar.
And even if one IS mentally ill, like I am, you have to take care of yourself to stay well. It is not an excuse. It is an adult's responsibility not to even smoke pot or drink while on psychiatric medication. Duh, that wipes out the effects the curative drugs can have when you mess it with other substances. And you have to take your medications without making a fuss over it, just as you'd take them if you had epilepsy or cancer. And only the person can keep going to therapy and learn ways to cope and help himself. The onus is still on the adult child. No excuses in my book.
The only mental illness that could be considered one where the person needs family help to get better is schizophrenia, a thought disorder that causes one to see and hear things that are not there and that even lower a person's cognitive functioning. These are the only people who are truly "out of their minds." I don't think I have ever read any adult child here who was schizophrenic. None of our kids are.
Unwilling to do squat to help themselves regardless of their problem is how Dr. SWOT diagnoses them. And we are sick too if we keep enabling dangerous or bad behavior in anybody we love. We have to stop it or BOTH of us will be sick, but it won't be called bipolar. Codependence is more like it for us.
Stay strong Copa. You can get through this. I'm sending all my positive energy to you. While we are all not there with you physically know that you have a small army surrounding you, we are here for you. Draw on the strength that you hold deep within yourself.
Stay in the moment, remember to focus on breathing, slow deep breaths.
Let us know how things go.
((HUGS))
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
We are losing control here. M told my son: "You use the marijuana like a drug. Your mother thinks you are getting better. I told her you're not. You are more arrogant, act more the despot, try to control and dominate us and insult us, when that fails."
"Do as you want" he said. "That, is your right to do. If you don't want to recognize that the consequences you receive in this life come from you, your attitude and your choices, so be it. But what about your mother? Every time you treat her as you do, she goes backward, she slips further back from where she was, way further. If this continues I will go to Social Security and have them withdraw your money. You are not using it to help yourself, but to hurt yourself and those around you."
( I guess M didn't get the Detachment Parenting Memo.)
I have not yet gotten to the chapter of Detachment Parenting that covers this topic, this situation I find myself in. Not knowing what to do, I left the room and went to bed.
I will now read a book. A mystery. At least here what has been broken comes together in the end.
What has changed? I have a sort of calm. My heart is filled with love, not fear.
P.S Less than an hour later we are giggling together, bonded, huddled in the bedroom. It seems that the landlady who dropped my son off...has been outside in front of the house these past two hours...gathering pieces of M's beloved cacti.
P.S.S. M is not amused. He is offended and angry. This woman has torn off pieces of 20 plants; she has violated if not destroyed them.
"Why could she not have asked me," M laments. "This is not the time to cut them. I wash my hands before I touch each one, so as to protect it."
Under cover of waiting for my son, a lie, she lurked in our yard and assaulted our plants, so that she could steal parts of them. I guess the moral of the story is you can't protect what you love.
.
"Do as you want" he said. "That, is your right to do. If you don't want to recognize that the consequences you receive in this life come from you, your attitude and your choices, so be it. But what about your mother? Every time you treat her as you do, she goes backward, she slips further back from where she was, way further. If this continues I will go to Social Security and have them withdraw your money. You are not using it to help yourself, but to hurt yourself and those around you."
( I guess M didn't get the Detachment Parenting Memo.)
I have not yet gotten to the chapter of Detachment Parenting that covers this topic, this situation I find myself in. Not knowing what to do, I left the room and went to bed.
I will now read a book. A mystery. At least here what has been broken comes together in the end.
What has changed? I have a sort of calm. My heart is filled with love, not fear.
P.S Less than an hour later we are giggling together, bonded, huddled in the bedroom. It seems that the landlady who dropped my son off...has been outside in front of the house these past two hours...gathering pieces of M's beloved cacti.
P.S.S. M is not amused. He is offended and angry. This woman has torn off pieces of 20 plants; she has violated if not destroyed them.
"Why could she not have asked me," M laments. "This is not the time to cut them. I wash my hands before I touch each one, so as to protect it."
Under cover of waiting for my son, a lie, she lurked in our yard and assaulted our plants, so that she could steal parts of them. I guess the moral of the story is you can't protect what you love.
.
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
RecoveringEnabler, I wanted to tell you. It worked, more or less. After he got thrown out of where he was living he came home for an hour or two. There was some drama, not much.
He left like a man. No begging. No insulting. No blaming. Just, he left.
He did not tell me what was next. I did not ask where he was going. I did not call to see if he was okay.
He left to take his next steps as an adult. On his own. Confident. His head high. No clinging to my skirts (OK, nightgown) nor me to him.
He looked bedraggled, rough around the edges/a little bit wild eyed. Certainly, as if he needed medication.
But more a man, than 2 weeks ago, and much more a man than 2 months ago.
Thank you.
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nlj
Well-Known Member
Are those M's cacti in your avatar?
What a horrible woman - seems like pointless, wanton destruction.
( Good job my son isn't close by, he'd be on his way there with a group of protesters!
)
pasajes4
Well-Known Member
Profound imagery
"The Plant Stalker" coming to a theatre near you..... (she sounds a bit nuts) I don't blame M, I would be angry too.
So true Copa, so true.
This is huge Copa, you did great!!
Copa, you did great!
I'm sorry about the Cacti. Profound imagery about not being able to protect what we love.
One step at a time, that's what we're all doing here, one moment, one step.....make today about you......be kind to yourself, nurture yourself, nourish your life.....
I'm sorry about the Cacti. Profound imagery about not being able to protect what we love.
One step at a time, that's what we're all doing here, one moment, one step.....make today about you......be kind to yourself, nurture yourself, nourish your life.....
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Two phone calls later, I adhere to my Detachment Parenting playbook, while suffering.
My son called this morning elated because the police will soon shut down the place where he had been staying; he said all of the people there will be thrown out. He had returned there for his things and had been refused entry by a man, a sex offender, that lives there *Great. He crowed in glee with the opportunity to avenge being "fxxxed in the axx." *Sorry.
That he can even imagine this degree of degradation and victimization appalls me; that he describes himself in these terms is appalling.
He mentioned that he had identified a new living situation, paying a couple $150 a month to crash on the couch with the need to leave at 6 am and return at 6 pm, "like a shelter, Mom."
I tried to stay noncommittal, saying, "do you think that is a fair price in that you will be gone all day? Think about if it will meet your needs."
Second phone call two hours later: "Mom, I need to come over and take a shower. I don't want to use the bathroom here because it is inside the couple's room."
Me: "Have you paid them already? You need to consider if this situation is meeting your needs. If you sleep there but need to use the bathroom and shower here, that sounds like you propose to live half time there and half time here. That is not an option."
Son: "If you just want to say no, say no!"
Me: " 'No'. Goodbye." And I hang up.
My son called this morning elated because the police will soon shut down the place where he had been staying; he said all of the people there will be thrown out. He had returned there for his things and had been refused entry by a man, a sex offender, that lives there *Great. He crowed in glee with the opportunity to avenge being "fxxxed in the axx." *Sorry.
That he can even imagine this degree of degradation and victimization appalls me; that he describes himself in these terms is appalling.
He mentioned that he had identified a new living situation, paying a couple $150 a month to crash on the couch with the need to leave at 6 am and return at 6 pm, "like a shelter, Mom."
I tried to stay noncommittal, saying, "do you think that is a fair price in that you will be gone all day? Think about if it will meet your needs."
Second phone call two hours later: "Mom, I need to come over and take a shower. I don't want to use the bathroom here because it is inside the couple's room."
Me: "Have you paid them already? You need to consider if this situation is meeting your needs. If you sleep there but need to use the bathroom and shower here, that sounds like you propose to live half time there and half time here. That is not an option."
Son: "If you just want to say no, say no!"
Me: " 'No'. Goodbye." And I hang up.
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