How to recover ourselves after difficult child-induced trauma?
- Thread starter scent of cedar
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scent of cedar
New Member
Oh, you're right! I hadn't thought about it that way.
Make mine...whipped cream.
:O)
Barbara
Make mine...whipped cream.
:O)
Barbara
Barbara, by the way, the Martin Sheen character does actually kill the Marlon Brando character in Apocalypse Now, his final words are something like, 'horrors, the horrors'.
The thing that I have realized is that for the first time in 19 years, I am actually going to get to do something for me!!!!! That to me is just amazing. I am actually going to join a gym next month when my husband gets his raise so I am so going to have fun. We are also going to be able to move into a nicer house and have better furniture and things that we like and love and to be honest I actually love the idea. I also love the idea of being able to take small trips with my youngest daughter and not to worry about meltdowns with her.
Dixies_fire
Member
Sounds like what I've been doing for hubs, it's exhausting handling ALL of another adult's problems who can handle them on their own but won't. It was also somewhat embarrassing to me.
nerfherder
Active Member
Sounds like what I've been doing for hubs, it's exhausting handling ALL of another adult's problems who can handle them on their own but won't. It was also somewhat embarrassing to me.
There's a very good reason why working my fundament off for very little lucre is preferable to staying a suburban housewife.
Having a child like Kiddo really sucks, but it beats having to care for an emotionally crippled Aspie on top of it all.
(In a way he reminds me of "Mr. 35" - marginally better able to handle himself, but sheesh. The time I came home and found him on the couch white and shaking in a full blown panic attack because someone called to complain about one of our cats... Maybe I should start a "stupid and dangerous things dysfunctional people in your lives have done" thread.)
scent of cedar
New Member
Nerfie, you are so funny! :O)
N
Nomad
Guest
I've missed too much this last year, so I don't know the entire story. Apologies ahead of time if I stick my foot in my mouth. I know that it is HARD as anything humanely possible to not be hypervigilant. It is counterintuitive. I am fortunate that my husband does much of the necessary stuff. We are not hypervigilant anymore. And one of the biggest (and best) things for me personally is that I'm no longer truly personally invested. It is rare for me to get emotional or overly worried about difficult child anymore. It isn't completely gone gone, but I have pushed much of it out into outer space somewhere. I have done what they suggest in AA...and given it over to a higher power. We kind of watch out for things that might be dangerous for difficult child or medically crucial. We help her in those instances. I don't understand why difficult child is a difficult child. I don't understand why there are difficult children in this world. It has upset me spiritually to such a great extent I feel like if I ever could fully express it, a building would fall down. It is too big and too inexplicable for me to cope with. So, I have given it to my Higher Power and have gotten comfort this way. I know that I gave 110% and it took a lot out of me. I know that I have value and that I need to care for myself and other family members. I give what I can give to difficult child when it seems appropriate and will not be damaging to myself. I do not care one bit what others think of me or difficult child. I do not go out of my way to complain about difficult child, but do not worry about it either. It is what it is. I do comment on her positive side to others...but others are not blind and they are well aware of her faults. It is what it is. Life moves on. I know that we are not suppose to discuss religious things here and this is not really religious. It is just that I had to do the "AA" thing and give it up to my HP. I even read AA literature, even though I don't drink! Ha! It makes sense to me. This is just too big. Along with what I said above, many times I have to physically take extra care of myself and rest, read a good book, call a friend, etc. I have a hx of lupus and currently have Sjogren's Syndrome...and stress is never good for one's health. Good thoughts/good wishes and strength to you Barbara (((hugs))). Please take good care of yourself and consider my words.
scent of cedar
New Member
This imagery has me, today. There is something here about shame. About the things we teach ourselves about who and how we are in the world because
our children are in trouble. About the things we allow ourselves to believe we deserve. Health? Peace? Truly enjoying the beauty of a sunset or the feel of sand between our toes?
husband and I were on vacation one time. There was a caricaturist on the beach. Even in that caricature, I look sad, look bewildered.
Something about the eyes.
Photographs, same thing.
But here is the thing. difficult child challenges did not do that, to me. I am GREAT in a challenge. Like that little battery-run bunny in those commercials.
Seriously.
I must be picking around the edges of unraveling standing for myself, after all these years of guilt and shame and desperation and disbelief.
And of defending.
Years of defending the image of my children, of their futures, from the nasty, sneering pity, from the silent, unstated questions about how all this really happened, about what was wrong, about what must have really been going on, under that so-perfect façade of their childhoods, that my children were damaged.
But here's the thing. Those are actually MY questions. I must be projecting. (No. Other parents DO assume I am responsible. Just as they assume they are responsible for the performances of their so-wonderful children.)
And of course, I AM responsible.
When we brought difficult child to that first dual-diagnostic facility, all those years ago when this first started, this is what my mother said when I told her. The words "Mom, difficult child is in blah, blah, blah." were met, quick as a wink, with: (Insert sneer.) "Well, I guess you weren't such a good mother after all, were you."
And it wasn't a question.
Could that be the source of the conflict, here? The source of the drive to put things right?
Whatever.
I should have been able to walk right through that one.
But I still hear those words, that tone of voice, so clearly, today.
(She said, thanking God that this site is anonymous and wondering whether she could ever be traced by her first name.)
:O)
Something is going on, here. I think I might be circling around the idea of letting go of making reparations for what has happened through ~ well, through wearing a hair shirt.
I never really got that imagery before, Recovering.
There can be all different kinds of hair shirts. I don't imagine any of them, however we fashion them for ourselves, is actually a solution.
It's more a way of proving we are sorry, of proving we did not intend this to happen.
But it makes us weak; leaves us vulnerable, encourages us to believe in our guilt, in our, however unintended, complicity.
Lately, I have begun to think that the best thing I can do for my children (and for myself) is to be healthy, and strong.
To make right and healthy choices, so that is their role model, their memory of their mother's truth, their understanding of who I was, of who I am.
Small steps.
Barbara
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Barbara, this is expressed so beautifully.
I have direct, tangible evidence of my influence in my little Tyrantina. I watch her as she tidies up the toys, straightens papers on desks, packs a bag full of "her things" to take down to "her office" at the beginning of the day (tea set instead of laptop, but still, they're her essential tools), checks her hair and shoes in the mirror before going out to the park...countless things, small and large. I realize that every last little thing I do affects her -- how she views herself, how she conducts herself. And it's my role to make sure that she learns to be a strong, healthy person by observing and copying my strength and health. I must be strong and healthy, to teach her to be.
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
That's exactly it. For so long I sort of let things happen. I pushed back a bit, but I gave in way too easily. And, yes,
there is a lot of PTSD even now. But... When I first felt real fear for Inky... She was (and is) so small and helpless... I knew I had to fortify the spine I'd let soften. Because I could not allow her to be hurt - and that meant teaching her that love doesn't mean letting people walk all over you.
Jett seemed a little flummoxed to begin with, because he hadn't seen that side of me. husband is delighted. And... They are both straightening their own spines, coming out from under their protective shells. Because now it is OKAY.
Still, I have moments. This morning I got up and the front door, back door, basement door were all unlocked. With Onyxx's burglar-boyfriend knowing where we live... This makes me NERVOUS. I am still finding little things that are mere annoyances but push me past that instantaneously - because they're leftover from before (like the stuff stuck inside the unwashed blender Wednesday - I think it might have been crackers, cheese and something else; or the necklace I found behind a switch plate in Onyxx's old room). Jett wants me to hold on to his cash and softball tokens so they won't get stolen... I have dreams that she is back. I love her. But I will NOT be a victim. I will NOT teach Inky to be a victim.
" The words "Mom, difficult child is in blah, blah, blah." were met, quick as a wink, with: (Insert sneer.) "Well, I guess you weren't such a good mother after all, were you."
That line really struck me Barbara. That is a shaming remark. You didn't do anything wrong. However, if your mother made that comment then, it's possible she shamed you before and the interesting and ugly thing about shame is that it hits you right where you live, it destroys your own self concept from I made a mistake to I AM the mistake. If that was the case for you, it would be a natural next step to try very hard to have that perfect life to cover up the shame.............and lo and behold, your children aren't perfect, yikes, that would snag that shame right out from the dark recesses and jam it right back in your face.............who wouldn't do just about anything to fix it, make it right, make that shame go away..........
I've been talking about this lately with my own therapist who used that word "shame" to describe an incident I had with someone........and as soon as I realized that was it, it all made sense. People who do that are not consciously doing it, likely it was done to them too...........so the cycle perpetuates itself, as they do if things aren't healed. Any way you slice it though, it feels REALLY bad and hurts a lot. Just a thought I had when reading your post, if it doesn't apply, disregard it............
That line really struck me Barbara. That is a shaming remark. You didn't do anything wrong. However, if your mother made that comment then, it's possible she shamed you before and the interesting and ugly thing about shame is that it hits you right where you live, it destroys your own self concept from I made a mistake to I AM the mistake. If that was the case for you, it would be a natural next step to try very hard to have that perfect life to cover up the shame.............and lo and behold, your children aren't perfect, yikes, that would snag that shame right out from the dark recesses and jam it right back in your face.............who wouldn't do just about anything to fix it, make it right, make that shame go away..........
I've been talking about this lately with my own therapist who used that word "shame" to describe an incident I had with someone........and as soon as I realized that was it, it all made sense. People who do that are not consciously doing it, likely it was done to them too...........so the cycle perpetuates itself, as they do if things aren't healed. Any way you slice it though, it feels REALLY bad and hurts a lot. Just a thought I had when reading your post, if it doesn't apply, disregard it............
scent of cedar
New Member
It applies, Recovering.
Thank you.
There are so many images of shame, or of shock and horror, in my recent postings. (Quasimodo, Apocalypse Now) Interestingly enough, we have returned to the area where my family (including my mother) live, for the summer. husband and I have been tearing each other apart over how to deal with my mother, and with my family, here. He says he is done. I feel a responsibility. Interacting with her, even now, has needle-sharp teeth.
And of course, we are very near the city where difficult child continues to be homeless.
I am going to have to stand up.
It's like swimming in a pit of vipers. My sister (who will be here in June) believes difficult child is demon-possessed, and is busy praying fences of protection around her. (And telling me that, if she removes them because I've chosen to help difficult child in a way she disapproves of, the safest place for me to be will be on my knees. This is the same sister who, years ago, prayed (with a group of people from her church) a thorny fence of badness, a focused wishing of bad things to happen to me, and to my family, to bring me "to the Lord".)
Which reminds me of a quote: "We must somehow work out our salvation in the midst of the nuclear arms race and surrounded by our Bingo-crazy relations."
Ross ~ On Strike Against God
Cheesh. Sometimes? It wonder whether difficult child isn't the sanest one of the bunch.
I remember blackgnat posting about feeling emotionally "thin" from coping with the day to day horror of what is happening with our difficult child children.
Hmmmm.....
I am going to explore this issue. I thought I had resolved all this through therapy.
This is what I am reading, today: http://www.strugglinghero.com/healing-toxic-shame-how-do-i-get-rid-of-it-part-one/
Recommended reading: Healing the Shame That Binds You ~ John Bradshaw
Also, reviewed Joel Osteen's "In a Time of Trouble."
I will post an address for him, later. I did that this morning and did not write that site address down.
Just in case any of the others of us are working through similar issues? I will report back on what I find helpful.
I am gong to put this information on Facebook for difficult child, too. I read this morning that some therapists believe toxic shame is the root cause of many emotional illnesses.
Oh, brother.
Barbara
Thank you.
There are so many images of shame, or of shock and horror, in my recent postings. (Quasimodo, Apocalypse Now) Interestingly enough, we have returned to the area where my family (including my mother) live, for the summer. husband and I have been tearing each other apart over how to deal with my mother, and with my family, here. He says he is done. I feel a responsibility. Interacting with her, even now, has needle-sharp teeth.
And of course, we are very near the city where difficult child continues to be homeless.
I am going to have to stand up.
It's like swimming in a pit of vipers. My sister (who will be here in June) believes difficult child is demon-possessed, and is busy praying fences of protection around her. (And telling me that, if she removes them because I've chosen to help difficult child in a way she disapproves of, the safest place for me to be will be on my knees. This is the same sister who, years ago, prayed (with a group of people from her church) a thorny fence of badness, a focused wishing of bad things to happen to me, and to my family, to bring me "to the Lord".)
Which reminds me of a quote: "We must somehow work out our salvation in the midst of the nuclear arms race and surrounded by our Bingo-crazy relations."
Ross ~ On Strike Against God
Cheesh. Sometimes? It wonder whether difficult child isn't the sanest one of the bunch.
I remember blackgnat posting about feeling emotionally "thin" from coping with the day to day horror of what is happening with our difficult child children.
Hmmmm.....
I am going to explore this issue. I thought I had resolved all this through therapy.
This is what I am reading, today: http://www.strugglinghero.com/healing-toxic-shame-how-do-i-get-rid-of-it-part-one/
Recommended reading: Healing the Shame That Binds You ~ John Bradshaw
Also, reviewed Joel Osteen's "In a Time of Trouble."
I will post an address for him, later. I did that this morning and did not write that site address down.
Just in case any of the others of us are working through similar issues? I will report back on what I find helpful.
I am gong to put this information on Facebook for difficult child, too. I read this morning that some therapists believe toxic shame is the root cause of many emotional illnesses.
Oh, brother.
Barbara
welcometowitsend
Member
Scent - Thank you for posting about toxic shame. I intend on reading through that website. I've bookmarked it for myself.
I spent most of my childhood being told that my mother wished I'd never been born, that she hated me until I was 3 years old (I cried a lot because I was lactose intolerant and no one knew so I had stomach issues). My siblings and I were divided into good and bad. When we were little my sister walked on water, I did not. Now she badmouths my sister every chance she gets and says I'm her favourite. Whatever. She probably badmouths me too.
As an adult I have been told repeatedly by my mother that I was parenting poorly. I didn't bake enough cookies or something. Your remark about your mother rang home because just recently my own mother said to me, "I would never to do my children what you are doing to yours!" (because we kicked him out of the house - nevermind that he is allowed to come home as soon as he decides he wants to follow some rules - he doesn't want to come home).
I have found myself fearful of my husband coming home to find the house not clean and realize this is leftover from my childhood fear of my mother coming home. My husband is a great guy and very understanding - I have no reason to fear him. It has gotten better over the years but it amazing how those things seep into our adult lives and we don't even realize it.
I spent most of my childhood being told that my mother wished I'd never been born, that she hated me until I was 3 years old (I cried a lot because I was lactose intolerant and no one knew so I had stomach issues). My siblings and I were divided into good and bad. When we were little my sister walked on water, I did not. Now she badmouths my sister every chance she gets and says I'm her favourite. Whatever. She probably badmouths me too.
As an adult I have been told repeatedly by my mother that I was parenting poorly. I didn't bake enough cookies or something. Your remark about your mother rang home because just recently my own mother said to me, "I would never to do my children what you are doing to yours!" (because we kicked him out of the house - nevermind that he is allowed to come home as soon as he decides he wants to follow some rules - he doesn't want to come home).
I have found myself fearful of my husband coming home to find the house not clean and realize this is leftover from my childhood fear of my mother coming home. My husband is a great guy and very understanding - I have no reason to fear him. It has gotten better over the years but it amazing how those things seep into our adult lives and we don't even realize it.
scent of cedar
New Member
You're welcome, WTWE. I will be really, really happy if anything I discovered makes a difference for someone else, too.
So, this is what I've learned:
Joel Osteen videos address and change old, shaming messages through positive affirmation.
I will post a site to free podcasts of his sermons.
An advance warning: Joel Osteen is a Christian televangelist. Not so long ago, my response to anyone recommending anything to do with a Christian televangelist would have been disgust, and some eye-rolling comment about fanaticism. Listening to one of these sermons however, is like listening to the best psychotherapist, the best life coach, you ever went to. The site I am including is free, of course.
http://castroller.com/podcasts/joelosteenvideo?page=2
The site on Healing Toxic Shame was excellent. It turns out to be the blog of a woman who used the Bradshaw book (Healing the Shame That Binds You) to work through her own issues with toxic shame. Very time-consuming to do it this way. A variety of excellent tools and techniques for envisioning, addressing, and replacing shaming imagery are included.
It took me two and a half days to review the site and all the linkages. What I am going to do is print it all out so that I have it ready for when I want to do shame work. I tried a number of the techniques. They are simple, and effective.
Another site, linked from the Healing the Shame site: Break the Cycle http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm
This site (also free) is one male therapist, leading the viewer through meditations on acknowledging and incorporating false, or guardian, selves.
Also very good, but also, very time consuming.
So, that is what I learned. Also, that there are definitely areas where I still have work to do, ferreting out and healing, the hurt parts.
All in all, a very good thing to have done.
Here is a really crummy thing I discovered during one of the exercises: I have the entire cast of the movie "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" rattling around in here.
Good news is that Katherine Hepburn appears frequently.
:O)
Barbara
So, this is what I've learned:
Joel Osteen videos address and change old, shaming messages through positive affirmation.
I will post a site to free podcasts of his sermons.
An advance warning: Joel Osteen is a Christian televangelist. Not so long ago, my response to anyone recommending anything to do with a Christian televangelist would have been disgust, and some eye-rolling comment about fanaticism. Listening to one of these sermons however, is like listening to the best psychotherapist, the best life coach, you ever went to. The site I am including is free, of course.
http://castroller.com/podcasts/joelosteenvideo?page=2
The site on Healing Toxic Shame was excellent. It turns out to be the blog of a woman who used the Bradshaw book (Healing the Shame That Binds You) to work through her own issues with toxic shame. Very time-consuming to do it this way. A variety of excellent tools and techniques for envisioning, addressing, and replacing shaming imagery are included.
It took me two and a half days to review the site and all the linkages. What I am going to do is print it all out so that I have it ready for when I want to do shame work. I tried a number of the techniques. They are simple, and effective.
Another site, linked from the Healing the Shame site: Break the Cycle http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm
This site (also free) is one male therapist, leading the viewer through meditations on acknowledging and incorporating false, or guardian, selves.
Also very good, but also, very time consuming.
So, that is what I learned. Also, that there are definitely areas where I still have work to do, ferreting out and healing, the hurt parts.
All in all, a very good thing to have done.
Here is a really crummy thing I discovered during one of the exercises: I have the entire cast of the movie "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" rattling around in here.
Good news is that Katherine Hepburn appears frequently.
:O)
Barbara
welcometowitsend
Member
Oh! I saw Joel Osteen on tv a month or so ago while staying in a hotel. husband and I both thought he was dead on and loved the way he articulated his point.
*I'm going to enjoy that site! Thank you for that as well.
*I'm going to enjoy that site! Thank you for that as well.
fedup61664
New Member
I am new to this site. I posted a question about an hour ago. Can someone tell me how this works?
fedup, where did you post your question? You are presently in the Parent Emeritus forum where our kids are older or out of the house. How it works essentially, is that you presumably are in need of support about your child who is in some manner acting out in negative ways. You post in the forum which best fits your dilemma and issues and those who are members in that forum, will respond. You can post in any forum you like and in as many as you like. It simply helps to narrow it down because those parents will have experience with what you are dealing with. It would likely be best if you picked a forum which fit, wrote a post of your own, put a signature at the bottom of your post so we can remember you and your concerns and of course, keep posting because it really helps. The parents in the site where you posed the question will likely be answering you at some point. I hope you stay and get support, it helps so much. Welcome!
scent of cedar
New Member
The horrifying part is that we're still carrying the emotional import of what we were taught about ourselves. At the time this damage happened, we were innocent, and so new to the world that we had no alternative to internalizing the toxic worldviews of our damaged caretakers. At some level, even as adults, we still believe their interpretations of who and how we are. We still believe that their criticisms, their descriptions of our purposes and potentials, are valid. The truth is that our mothers (or fathers) were ill. It takes courage to find, and to face, to relive and to reinterpret, the realities of the defenseless children we were, then. What actually happened to us, time and again in that time, is that we came face to face with our own mortality. That is horrifying, even for us as adults. Back in that time, we had no words to describe and contain the fear of it; we had no power to change, or to escape, our situations. We all grow beyond those times and those truths. But when we find evidence that toxic material from those times is affecting the Now, we need to acknowledge and deal with the situation.
The wonder of it is that we can go back and reteach ourselves the truth about what happened.
There is no benefit in continuing to define ourselves through the shattered mirror of an abusive and/or mentally ill parent's coping strategies. Once we understand that those strategies were devised to protect the sanctity of the parent's self-protective fantasies of infallibility, of grandiosity and power-over, we can clearly see the nature of our own victimization and heal ourselves.
How cool is that?
Reliving those emotions, reliving the shame and powerlessness of those times, can be devastating. We need a trusted therapist, a sane witness, to take us there and back, safely.
Without a therapist? Positive affirmation is the way to go.
Wishing you well, WTWE.
Barbara
Here is something pretty:
A bird cried jubilation. In that moment, they lived long. All minor motions were stilled, and only the great ones were perceived. Beneath them the Earth turned, singing.
S. Tepper
The Revenants
And here is something valuable:
The pain body may seem to you like a dangerous monster that you cannot bear to look at, but I assure you that it is an insubstantial phantom that cannot prevail against the power of your presence.
Eckhardt Tolle
The Power of Now
Barbara
elizabrary
Well-Known Member
I have been very successful about detaching. It is one reason I am not on here much- I don't want to get sucked back into my difficult children vortex of destruction and prefer maintaining my focus on myself and my life. That being said, there is still pain, sadness, guilt that goes along with detaching, but over all I'm in a much better place. Recently I have been very good about responding neutrally when I talk to my daughter. She says crazy stuff and in the past I would have to give a lecture, which would start a useless argument. Now I just respond with, "Hope that works out for you" or some other neutral response and just keep going. Yes, I do cry when I get off the phone sometimes, but then I refocus on me. I DO NOT do things she should be doing for herself, and she has learned to stop asking for the most part. It's really hard to watch them self-destruct and do nothing, but it really is the best way for everyone involved. They won't learn until they're ready and trying to stop the inevitable drives us crazy in the process. Good luck.
