I'm still struggling- need votes!

[rejectedmom]

Karen if you remember my story with my difficult child#2 I have definately been in your shoes. I feel that bringing him home might help if only in proving to you that you tried everything and none of it worked. That way when/if he messes up again you can put him back out with no more "what-ifs"

 

[klmno]

That's extremely helpful, especially seeing that your son has a VERY similar hx with the system to my difficult child. And I did notice a few mos ago that my biggest internal pull was between what I thought was in difficult child's best interest/my love for him, and the system's koi and I had a hard time figuring that out because I know it's not supposed to be that way. Unfortunately, many see that as me being anti-system but it didn't start out this way. It's just that my efforts to work with them cost me everything in my life and didn't help difficult child at all- if anything, it served to enable him. So, MM, if you have any specific pointers about the system and me maintinaing sanity while they are in my life, I'd appreciate hearing them!

In some ways, it seems like difficult child's life would be easier and simpler in a group home. But there are other things to consider, too. And as far as the gang issue- he does have reason to be concerned. There was some sort of fight or riot between gangs in Department of Juvenile Justice this past summer and somehow difficult child got himself in the middle although it appears he's not in a gang or affiliated with any- it got ssome gang turned against him- oh, they say he stole a paper with their codes on it. And some members from this gang will be at the same GH so difficult child he is afraid what will happen if he's in the GH and they can get ahold of him without guards being around or out on the street. The issue is that paper he got or they think he got and that the fight over the summer costs them all, including difficult child, a couple of mos in isolation.

RM- that's the other side of the coin. What if I did try a different approach- instead of 'siding' so much with the system, I worked on difficult child/my relationship more while still not allowing illegal activity or aggression, among a few other things. See this is where his input and willingness would help a lot but I can't believe what he says because he had me so snowed last time. I don't know, maybe he meant to try last time and just lost it too quickly. It sure would help to know why he lost it last time. And yeah, if others were in the home or if difficult child's tendency wasn't to use a knife to rob me it sure would be a lot simpler.

Now I'm hearing a siren and remembering what it's like when difficult child is out and I hear a siren in the area. *sigh* PTSD or realistic fear or both? I'm thinking both.

 

[DDD]

With full respect for your brainstorming, how will/would you be able to maintain structure in your home? After two formative years in a highly controlled environment wouldn't you expect him "to buck" after the initial honeymoon period? Honestly I did not anticipate any ongoing problems when difficult child came home from his six month stay (with the exception of possible continuing substance abuse). Not! I soon was back to hyper vigilance. Fortunately I was not working for someone else because many, many, many nights I was not able to go to sleep because quietly difficult child would take off with friends who would come by after bedtime. With one exception in his teens he never verbally was disrespectful but he wanted to be with friends and not doing homework, watching tv and going to bed...our expectations for week nights.
Having a loving supportive home does not eliminate GFGness and their compulsion to do what they want to do, when they want to do it. In the case of your difficult child's interaction with the gang member..it seems to indicate that his impulses reign even when he has valid reason to fear repercussions. It's something to think about. DDD

 

[klmno]

I was looking over the votes (really opinions, I get that) and re-reading posts. I won't go into all the specifics to clarify some things because there are several of them- like difficult child saying something at one point then saying something different now, etc., but where I am right now is the fear of the repercussions of what PO might end up ordering is a fear the majority of the time. The fear of what difficult child might do is a fear some of the time. I'm not sure what means except that I don't see how I can give csu a blanket commitment to bring difficult child home no matter what they end up ordering, unless I just lie to get him home then buck whatever I think will instigate more problems with us at home or whatever interferes with my job.

I love my son so much and miss him- the good times- so much. But more than anything, I want to give him the best chance I can to get his life turned around. But I know that csu paid providers are in way over their head to try to deal with our family issues from a MH aspect- there is no way one of their providers can bring any good to our home trying to deal with them and my biggest fear is the explosions that will occur in my home if they try to force this- which means difficult child commits another offense against me.

 

[DammitJanet]

I can understand that. I wish you lived elsewhere that didnt put you in this position. Somewhere that had better options.

 

[DDD]

I can understand that too. It's a heck of a postion to be in and I am sorry. One aspect that I don't recall you addressing is contact. Hypothetically if difficult child goes to the GH for a year until he is 18 has anyone stipulated how much time you might spend with him? Would you be able to bring him over to your place on a visitation for a few hours if you felt safe? Would he subsequently be allowed to spend the night? Go to joint counseling with you?

If visitation is included in the plan I think you might feel better with the placement. You would not have to worry about your work schedule/traveling. You would not have to stay on guard for typical teen things...or difficult child choices. You could see how he's able to adapt to school and support those goals. I imagine you could buy clothes etc. when you wanted to do so. It could be a case of looking at the glass as half full instead of half empty. on the other hand, I wish you didn't have this delima. DDD

 

[exhausted]

KLMNo,
I can so get the desire for your child to be home and yet the fear that past behaviors will rear their heads., I can tell you when the judge said to us this past Aug., "You don't like what the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) did, you take her, she's all yours. What do you people want? A magic bullet? I will be seeing her in my courtroom again."

We died, we had some possible placements and even some funding that JJS worker and I had worked on. She had been neglected and almost committed suicide (they left pills out in her reach) on their watch-how was he going to turn her loose with no support?

Of course she got home and it all started again. Her behaviors are not dangerous to us physically, but they were to herself-the running away to older people's, smoking pot, stealing. It is just now after 4 months that she is not running, pleasant, has a job. We were ready to send her away again. She said, "Thats all you do is to get rid of me when your mad." We had been told that this was manipulation. It wasn't. It was a girl who had spent most of her teen years in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). She had suffered traumas that caused her behaviors and she was struggling to handle those emotionally without her family. She knew we loved her...in her mind she though we just wanted her out and didn't really believe her about her abuses. The psychiatric told us no more programs, she said no more programs, and our religious leader said I'll support you but really? Another program?

I just don't think that any help you get from most public workers will be too good. They are over worked, young or green (no one else would take these jobs), and our kids have to want to change!

The motivation for difficult child here? She's working; she doesn't have to handle school anymore, who knows. We just stopped fighting her. She has not run off since a month ago. No stealing for almost 2 months and mostly pleasant. Not perfect and I sure don't trust her. She has her first paycheck and of course I'm worried about what she'll do with money. At some point it is on them.

You do what you have to do. You won't ever live with yourself if you don't. You can't guarantee the outcome. difficult child knows what will happen if he screws up. He also knows you love him and want him. Even if there is no working towards reunification in the program-you work it! You'll be able to see him (here there were no restrictions at group home) so much more and build a relationship. If he comes home with no court orders (I think you should push like crazy for those), you lay it out on paper and follow through. We did that, not sure it works but we have been firm. You may need to include that he attend domestic violence groups at YWCA. Ours knows that she is out on her bum, no questions asked, when 18, if we believe any problem behaviors are there. She must be working or going to school as well. This scares her.

 

[klmno]

This is the briefest way I know how to explain that question, DDD:

What I asked for and what PO said this GH was: short term placement, after 1 mo (assuming difficult child does well) there would be day visits with me then as he moved up, we'd move to more time at home because reunification would be the goal; family therapy

What reentry lady says and is consistent with fed funding requiremeents for long term placement: Required min stay, goal to get difficult child out on his own, after 30 days he gets a day pass to go with their group to an organized and supervised event (has nothing to do with family get together), parents are allowed to visit and have contact with kid after 30 days at the group home- no contact prior to then; anger management 'course', required family meetings (they have no licensed MH prof on staff); since the reentry lady is the asst director of the GH I believe she is the one giving the accurate description - I think PO was giving me lip service to get me to buy into it by telling me this was what I asked for

ETA: As I've said before, there are NO choices for me re difficult child's 'treatment' plan- the PO (and reentry lady) make all those decisions. And as a reminder, they formed this much of a plan before even looking thru his file).

My son has a hx of self-harming and self-sabatoging behavior, too, and that is most definitely still a fear- but that fear is more if he goes to GH because I don't think they'll even notice.

 

[Marcie Mac]

I wish I had some good tips to share on dealing with the system (between them and Danny, its probably why I have stomach ulcers now). Mostly it all depends on the PO of the moment. You can tell them what you want to see happen - and odds are that is NOT the senario they will go with. Because, after all, they ALL know better than the parents. You told them what you would like to see happen, you will have to find out whats actually going to happen, then proceed again with what you want to happen behind the scenes. I have had PO's say "the mother is too involved" to others who say" gawd, I wish we had more parents invested in their kids like you are" Its a no win situation. After a while my ultimate goal was to get my kid out of their clutches before he became one of the throw away kids and got used to being instatutionalized.

Marcie

 

[DDD]

If he makes poor choices at the GH what are the repercussions? Will he lose priveledges (sp??) or have his parole period extended or be kicked out? If he makes poor choices at your home what are the repercussions? Get new charges? Be sent to GH is they have an opening? or ?? Maybe that's another issue to explore. No matter where he goes after prison I think he is likely to have a difficult adjustment.

The thirty day period of no contact sounds logical if he is at the GH. They do that with substance abuse programs etc. so the clients get acclimated to the new environment, rules etc. Do you know if they rule out supplemental counseling by private professionals? DDD

 

[klmno]

thank you, MM. I can't say enough how good it is just to know someone else in this world understands.

DDD, those sort of details will be put out after the placeement - I have no idea and can't see why that's important right now since I have no control over it. At one point, the PO and super (with snickers on their faces and a bit of attitude in their voices) said they might 'let' me take difficult child to family therapy if he goes to GH. The problem though is that doesn't cover my safety and doesn't give the intensive therapy that is needed. That would be a poor excuse for what is really needed. We were in therapy before. The problem was that when intense, serious, emoptional issues were confronted, difficult child would hold it in until he came home or we were alone and become explosive. I guess it takes the experience of living with DV before a person can truly understand the patterns and why these things have to be handled by profs with expertise or it only serves to instigate more. Making difficult child promise not to get mad, as one therapist did, just doesn't cut it. In home therapy won't cut it. Therefore, it won't get addressed while difficult child is a minor because the csu people only will consider sending him home and ordering these things- that we've already tried and only served for difficult child to get where he is. And they think this is funny because they are son convinced that it's just me trying to take over or something- maybe they think if it was really that bad, I wouldn't still be advocating for difficult child, I don't know and don't care anymore. If there's no effective communication between them and me, it isn't going to get anywhere anyway.

I am sure that if difficult child uses a knife to rob me or someone at the GH or anyone else, he will go back to incarceration, whether as a juvenile or adult. If he does something that's a slight parole violation, they give parole sanctions.

I'm more worried about this video conference later this week right now- I know, it changes daily. LOL! My gut tells me this is only happening so super can be confrontational and try to establish that they are in control, which of course, difficult child and I already know. I'm not planning on letting them pit me and my son against each other any more than I can help it, even if it means that I don't show up for this thing.

I did a little yard work (small yard) and am getting ready to run to the store for necessaties- and I hate the thought of fighting the crowd today- but have to get some stuff done and am trying not to dwell on the worry right now. I need to write difficult child this evening and hope he can call before this stupid conference.

 

[susiestar]

maybe they think if it was really that bad, I wouldn't still be advocating for difficult child

I think you hit this one on the nose. There were those who flat out didn't believe that Wiz EVER hurt me physically because I advocated for him so much and so emphatically. I had other parents ask me why I would ever advocate for help or special anything for a child who kept hurting me? I stopped trying to explain to them because it was clear that their Point of view was that "my child would NEVER and if he did then he would be GONE from my family the FIRST time he did it". Not only did I not believe those parents would do what they said, I also didn't care what they thought because they were not in control of my child.

I think the PO may honestly think that if difficult child "really" hurt you then you wouldn't care what happened to him. SOOOOOOOO Wrong a way to look at it, but some have that mindset.

I wonder if someone from the domestic violence center could help advocate for whatever is in difficult child's best intersts? It is CLEAR that PO just want to control you, at least it is clear to me, and maybe someone from a DV center might open up doorways or at least minds/hearts?

 

[klmno]

Of course all that could be verified if they bothered to READ the file, call old jurisdiction, check court records, or whichever other means they find convenient.

Short response- just got hom- dogs want treat. LOL!

 

[InsaneCdn]

My thoughts were along the lines of Susie et al...

In real life, its not unusual, but the "system" probably hasn't really stopped to look at it this way.

On one hand, you are the victim. In which case, if it were serious, you wouldn't want anything to do with difficult child.
On the other hand, you are the Mom. In which case, you will advocate for your child to the extent of your powers, because you are Mom.

To the "system" - how can you be both? If you're being Mom, then you really can't be the victim?

Its not right. Its not correct. Its not fair.
But I can see how they get to their point of view.

Maybe you need to flag that particular logic-split to the lawyer...? in case she hasn't thought of it that way yet?

 

[DammitJanet]

See I didnt have that issue. I was both the mother and the victim and I was allowed to both advocate for him on the defense side and the prosecution side and my son was an adult! I really shouldnt have had contact with his defense lawyer at all.

 

[klmno]

What I've seen around here is that if the kid isn't living with the parent or is above 18, it's an entirely different story. It's the custodial parent of a juvenile that gets thrown under the bus- I haven't seen them or heard them address any other person this way. If it's a grandparent raising a kid or even a non-custodial parent, it's a completely different story. If the kid is over 18, they go to adult csu so the parent is a non-issue, except in cases where the kiid is in juvenile csu already- like difficult child- they can legally hold them in juvie csu (and me) until he's 21, although they probably won't.

I wrote difficult child a long letter last night- hopefully he'll get it tomorrow. I'll be going to DMV later this morning. It's tempting to tell PO that I can't make the videoconference tomorrow because I had to spend the time off work getting a new driver's license today.

 

[DDD]

What does your attorney suggest you do or say at the conference? I would assume that attending is necessary to assure your sincerity is demonstrated. I'm sure you dread it, however. DDD