Its been awhile

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Aloha all,
I haven’t posted in a long time, been focused this summer on helping my Hoku through a severe birth trauma that had her hospitalized and immobile for a few months after delivering her beautiful baby. Thankfully baby is just fine and Hoku is on the mend.
Tornado ended up back in jail (again) for violating probation (again) for a case from 2018 that has dragged on due to her non compliance ( I am assuming, because I don’t go to court.)
Prison.
Sometimes I feel as if I have been imprisoned by my two waywards addiction and subsequent decline to living on the streets in the same off and on manner.
I can go for spans where I have fleeting thoughts, but say a quick prayer to calm my mind, and it works. Honestly, it is easier when I have no contact, then BOOM- incarceration affords my daughter the ability (time mainly and forced sobriety) to try to contact me, that’s when my brain goes into hyper mode and I reel those tapes and the endless “what ifs”.
I have kept to my resolve to not fund her phone calls this time. I need space, time to heal, time to rethink my relationship or lack thereof with my adult daughter. In the past prison stints, I have picked up the phone, paid into her account. Some conversations were okay, others more or less laced with manipulation and expectations of money put in her account for phone privileges, etc. sigh. She asks to come home, that she “knows she will get better here.” I know that is a pipe dream (pardon the pun). But it still hurts a mothers heart to have to say no.
Oh Gawd, is it a full moon or something?
Can I get a break from all of this? How am I to keep my sanity? Is it too late already?
Then come the letters.
Letter to her daughter, who I have been blessed with raising, just 14 now. Her mothers words intertwined with revelations of finding Jesus,(again) sugared with professions of love and spiced with a dry addicts manipulation “I just need to come home.”
My granddaughter, long a victim and student of trauma based lifestyle, street smart, yet vulnerable at the same time, does not fall
for it. I don’t pry, these last three years have taught me that she will talk about it when she is ready, but her sadness shows through songs she plays and the need for more personal space. She does not want to live that way ever again, and I have promised her and myself that her mother will not live here.
Letter to me- I read it and I don’t even know how to read it, if you know what I mean? So I go over it several times, then go through days of trying to figure out how to respond. Do I want to even respond? Deep down inside I’m feeling that anything I write will be used against me in “her court of law.”
Why am I so damn obsessed? I feel like I’ve developed so many different voices in my head, the sensible one, sees through the manipulation, the heart wrenched mother voice “How will she recover if no one stands by her?” The angry voice “How could she get high up until delivery and jeopardize her unborn?”
I come here to remind myself of where I have been, the roller coaster and yo-yo-ing. I am trying to rise up the version of strong me, but find myself choking on the “resurrected through contact” marionette version dancing frantically about held hostage through pulled heart strings
and the master puppetry of addicted love ones. My mind screaming “DETACH, DETACH!”
I need a James Cagney to slap my face and shake me by the shoulders and shout “Get a hold of yourself!”
For now, I will allow myself to feel the sorrow of having two meth addicted adult daughters. I am not a stone pillar, I am human. I admit it, I am terribly weak, I feel this big empty chasm within. A black hole.
I am quoting Copa from her reply to Helpless because her wisdom has always helped.

“There is the possibility that this will be his lifestyle for the foreseeable future. The same is true for my son. Why are we along for the ride? Remember that children's book, I think it was called. Oh, The Places We'll Go.”

I have the book and never imagined this. This is true for my daughter as well, this may well be her lifestyle.



As mothers, we are programmed to worry. This worry has a basis in the mistaken belief we can do something to alter circumstances. We cannot.
I try not to worry, it does nothing but cause stress, but it is essentially my first name. I swallow worry down like a large pill that scrapes the sides of my throat and leaves a sensation like it is still there. Worry, stuck in my throat. Evolving into imagined scenarios of what may or may not be. I wish I could be a stoic like my Dad. What is, is, and all of that. I try, but it does not come easily. You are right Copa, circumstances will not be altered, we have absolutely no control over another adults choices.
I know you are not contemplating actively engaging with your son. However, I am beginning to think that even thinking of them creates toxicity. What a :censored2:in mess.
This hit me. Even thinking of them creates toxicity. That is where I am at. In a stinking toxic sludge pool. I have to get out.

Thank you to anyone who read through this crazy mess. Gulp. I will be okay. I think. Well, I have to be. That sure can’t be dependent upon whether or not my two sort their lives out, that’s for sure.

Sigh
Leaf
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Dear New Leaf
I have missed you. I am so very sorry it's hard (again.)
She asks to come home, that she “knows she will get better here.”
This line was a gut punch. Even for ME, reading it. If I breathe I am ANGRY. She is not a baby. Oh. Her babies she abandoned. And she wants to be YOUR baby? And what about YOU? To her, is your only role, function, and purpose in life to raise her babies, and her as a perpetual baby???!! NO!!!

This is on target, the point, the reason she CAN NEVER COME HOME because she does not, will not, and cannot (so far) SEE that she is her own responsibility. Wishing to be her mother's responsibility (and thereby assassinate whatever tranquility and boundaries her mother has managed against all odds to achieve), just shows me how selfish, self-centered, immature, and un-self-aware she is. We can forgive her because she is an addict. And the only way her addiction will be overcome is to create through work and struggle and immersion, a life of responsibility, self-awareness, and productivity. This is NOT achievable in her mother's lap. Oh. This just infuriates me. I seldom write ungrammatically but oh boy I am not even going to look at what I just wrote. Am I ranting? Sorry (not.)
Do I want to even respond? Deep down inside I’m feeling that anything I write will be used against me in “her court of law.”
Right! She does not see you. She does not want to see you. Please see above. All she wants is what she wants. To be an entitled baby. Of course, she feels sorry for herself. This is what needs to change.
“How will she recover if no one stands by her?”
Oh. Give me a break. How many lives does she have to break? Let her do one thing for herself. Let me see. A faith-based program for one year, with all the fixins. Say therapy, groups, recovery, volunteering, prayer, bible study, etc. Signing up for Voc Rehab and maybe a job perhaps?

If your daughter shoots up (rather than smoking)meth there is a low success rate, say 18 percent, of recovery But that is 18 out of 100. That is a lot! It's difficult but it is doable. Let her show her family that she has the want and the commitment to do something hard. But the thing is, her family has stood by her. You did for years and years until she rung you out and hung you up to dry. And how her father suffered. I am just enraged. Not to mention her siblings, AND HER CHILDREN. Oh GEEZ.

New Leaf. You do NOT deserve this from YOURSELF most of all. Please rally round the wagons. How much do you, and your well kids have to suffer, let alone your grandchildren? All of you have suffered way, way too much.

And finally, I am running out of steam but not before I say this: She was arrested. She is stuck in a jail. If HA is like CA she gets maybe a couple of hours a week in the yard. Maybe she can hoot and holler with the other women. Maybe she can read. But all she has time to do is guilt-trip you?

I say, stop it!! You are my girl!! You are not somebody to be played with. You've suffered enough. Please turn on some music. Find a good book. Post. Go outside in your garden. Know you are loved. What she does to you is NOT love. Let her man-up so that she is able to touch and find the potential for love in her that is still there. Letting ourselves be their punching bags is not love. Caring for and loving her child, is love. Love, Copa

PS I am ALWAYS glad when you come back.

PSS. So happy YOUR DAUGHTER and the new Baby are well. Congrats 🎊🍾

PSS. I will impersonate Cagney any time.
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Dearest Copa,
How I have missed you. Thank you so much for your kind and quick reply, I am strengthened by your words. I know part of my hitting this low point again has been just that utter feeling of loss. I’ve been going through old broken photo albums and rearranging years of pictures. This journey down memory lane coupled with the latest attempt by Tornado just overwhelmed me.

She is not a baby. Oh. Her babies she abandoned. And she wants to be YOUR baby? And what about YOU? To her, is your only role, function, and purpose in life to raise her babies, and her as a perpetual baby???!! NO!!!
This is on point. She is an adult. I have to keep my wits and think with my head, not my heart. She would keep me in this role forever if she could, and I cannot and will not do that. It is crippling for both of us.


This is on target, the point, the reason she CAN NEVER COME HOME because she does not, will not, and cannot (so far) SEE that she is her own responsibility.
I was amazed at the help there was available for her at the faith based rehab she attended when she had the baby. She was focused on coming home then as well, but I told her to stay the course and avail herself of the help offered. This is a pattern from those revolving door years that I cannot ever repeat.
We can forgive her because she is an addict. And the only way her addiction will be overcome is to create through work and struggle and immersion, a life of responsibility, self-awareness, and productivity. This is NOT achievable in her mother's lap.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Right! She does not see you. She does not want to see you. Please see above. All she wants is what she wants. To be an entitled baby. Of course, she feels sorry for herself. This is what needs to change.
I have felt for a long time that she does not see me as a person, a mother, but an opportunity for grifting.
Let her do one thing for herself. Let me see. A faith-based program for one year, with all the fixins. Say therapy, groups, recovery, volunteering, prayer, bible study, etc. Signing up for Voc Rehab and maybe a job perhaps?
My granddaughter says the same. “Tutu, Mom needs to do this on her own.” The thing is, she wouldn’t be on her own, there are many resources for her if she chooses.
If your daughter shoots up (rather than smoking)meth there is a low success rate, say 18 percent, of recovery But that is 18 out of 100. That is a lot! It's difficult but it is doable. Let her show her family that she has the want and the commitment to do something hard
I’m not sure how she uses meth. It has such a hold on both of my daughters. It is going on ten years that they have used it as far as I know.
Please rally round the wagons. How much do you, and your well kids have to suffer, let alone your grandchildren? All of you have suffered way, way too much.
Thank you Copa, it is true that we have all suffered way too much. I am exhausted.
She is stuck in a jail. If HA is like CA she gets maybe a couple of hours a week in the yard. Maybe she can hoot and holler with the other women. Maybe she can read. But all she has time to do is guilt-trip you?
I am hoping that she will stick with her Bible reading and plan to go to rehab when she is released, but that is up to her. The hard part for me is changing this pattern of being her go to when she is in jail. I can see her guilt tripping and manipulation, name it, but it still seeps through my heart. I am trying to toughen up, but even after all these years it is difficult.
What she does to you is NOT love. Let her man-up so that she is able to touch and find the potential for love in her that is still there. Letting ourselves be their punching bags is not love. Caring for and loving her child, is love.
It is not love. This is true. I have to wake up to the reality that there can be no decent relationship with my daughter until she understands the devastation her addiction has caused our family. She apologized in her letter for being an “inconvenience”. Geez.
I have to stop reading stuff about family
“supporting an addict through recovery.” Her attempts at rehab so far have been forced through the court. I don’t know if she was sincere about getting clean. I am not giving up hope that one day she will see her potential.
But, I have to be more cautious and protective of
my heart. I have to keep my guard up and know that I am back in the fog of it. That my daughter is not capable of loving as long as she is in the grips of meth and street life. That my love can’t save her, and would be the death of me.
PS I am ALWAYS glad when you come back.
You are so kind Copa. I am so thankful for your insight and friendship. You and others on this site have been such a God send through all these years. 2015 is when I first posted, hubs passed in 2016. My grands came to live with me in 2019. Our family has been through so much. My survival through all of this has been the ability to come here and be with folks who understand the pain of having addicted loved ones. Though I have been absent, I have thought of you often.
Much love and hugs and thank you with all of my heart
Leaf
 

Deni D

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
Aloha New Leaf ~ just sending love to you. Praying for Rain, Tornado, and all of your family to find peace. If we only had the influence our loving hearts so want...
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Aloha Deni,
Thank you so much for sending love and prayers. I agree, if we only had the influence we long for. But, I fear that longing is used to draw us in. I have some work to do, that’s for sure. Hope all is well with you and yours.
(((Hugs)))
Leaf
 

JMom

Well-Known Member
Good morning New Leaf,

I am so happy to see you posting. It sounds like you are really struggling with redefining boundaries since your daughter is in jail and sober-ish. I refrain from using the word sober, as we really don't know if they are using it in jail. What I do recognize, as do you, is that she still knows how to manipulate you with a promise of sobriety. You already have good, strong boundaries that do NOT need to be redefined. Her behavior has changed, but that doesn't mean your boundaries have to shift. You can do this, as you have before. On a positive note, you have protected her child. It seems that her kiddo has learned coping skills. I can see that it is hard to watch her withdraw, but it is for the best. Her daughter will need that tough exterior to handle her mom in the future (when she is grown.)

I think you are doing just fine. Don't beat yourself up. You already know what you need to do and there lies the struggle. I agree with Copa, do something for yourself and grand to relax. Self-care and detaching is almost always the answer.

hugs,
JMOM
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Aloha JMOM,
Thank you so much for your kindness.
It sounds like you are really struggling with redefining boundaries since your daughter is in jail and sober-ish. I refrain from using the word sober, as we really don't know if they are using it in jail.
This is true, we really don’t know if they are sober. My struggle has been with my decision to not engage with my daughter while she is in jail. This is a new boundary for me, as in the past, I did put money into her account and would receive daily phone calls from her. I realized that this communication was wearing me down emotionally and mentally. It was hard and is hard to stick to this because I feel guilty about it, I was browsing on rehab websites and they all talk about support from family being tantamount to recovery. There is a voice screaming in the back of my mind that the family and our well being also needs to be considered, what the years of addiction have done to our own psyche. When Tornado was in rehab last, her counselor set up weekly sessions, which I attended three. I stopped because it was not healthy for me. Looking back, I see that my daughter had not taken responsibility for the choices she made and how it affected all of us. There was no remorse, no making amends. She expected us (her three children as well) to just pick up and act as if nothing had happened. This was completely unfair and detrimental to all of us. Hard lesson learned. When she fell off the wagon, got kicked out of rehab and lost custody of her baby, we suffered all over again.
What I do recognize, as do you, is that she still knows how to manipulate you with a promise of sobriety.
Yes she does. Dangled in front of me like the proverbial carrot. I am not responsible for whether or not she chooses to get clean, I have to remind myself of that. Whether I choose to engage with her is my decision based on my own health and strength. I cannot take care of myself, or my granddaughter if I am a wreck!
You already have good, strong boundaries that do NOT need to be redefined. Her behavior has changed, but that doesn't mean your boundaries have to shift. You can do this, as you have before.
Thank you JMom. I get sucked to the edge of the rabbit hole with my own hopes that my daughter will wake up. I put too much on what I will or will not do, and how that may affect her. I need to stop putting that on me. She needs to understand that she has crossed too many lines with her family and she has a long way to go before we can trust her, or ourselves to have a healthy relationship.
On a positive note, you have protected her child. It seems that her kiddo has learned coping skills. I can see that it is hard to watch her withdraw, but it is for the best. Her daughter will need that tough exterior to handle her mom in the future (when she is grown.)
She and her brothers have been through so much with both parents addicted and abandonment. I am glad that she has firm boundaries and keeps her guard up.
Don't beat yourself up. You already know what you need to do and there lies the struggle. I agree with Copa, do something for yourself and grand to relax. Self-care and detaching is almost always the answer.
I will be taking some deep breaths and praying a lot for all of us to heal and stay strong. It is a daily exercise, with two addicted daughters soul snatched by meth. I’m not giving up hope that there may be an awakening one day, but do have to remind myself that they are not capable of right mindedness while under meths influence. Even if they do attempt sobriety it will take some time to regain their core being. I’m sure it did not help my state of mind going through old photos and rearranging them into new albums. That walk into the past, reviewing the good old days stirred that longing for sanity up to the surface. I have to get back to being thankful for the good times we had, and placing responsibility for whether or not my two seek sobriety where it belongs- on them. Nothing I do or say will sway their choices. They have to see that they are living degraded lives all for the emptiness of chasing this dragon. They have to see that we cannot and will not follow them towards destruction. We cannot live our lives continuously grieving their choices. It is no way to live. I am literally pulling up my bootstraps and going into my mountain jungle to hack away the weeds to prepare for planting. The physical work and sweat will help me sort out my emotions and calm me. Most times I am my own worst enemy, going down that foggy road of feeling heartless for choosing no contact. But, I do it to preserve my own sanity. Maybe one day my daughter will understand. That’s on her. We have to put on the “oxygen mask” however we need to, to live our own lives to the fullest, no matter what our adult children’s choices are.
Thank you so much JMom for writing. It is so helpful, lifesaving really, to know there are folks out there who know how this feels. I hope your son is on a good path. If not, stay strong!
Much aloha,
New Leaf
 

Blighty

Member
This part stood out for me

I realized that this communication was wearing me down emotionally and mentally. It was hard and is hard to stick to this because I feel guilty about it, I was browsing on rehab websites and they all talk about support from family being tantamount to recovery. There is a voice screaming in the back of my mind that the family and our well being also needs to be considered, what the years of addiction have done to our own psyche.

There seem to be 2 broad conflicting messages out there which are confusing for parents :-
12 step: detaching with love
vs
"Craft" approach: stay connected.

On a personal note it really bugs me that part of craft teaching involves taking a reductionist pot shot at 12 step. I also sense craft make parents feel OK about enabling.

One approach does not suit all circumstances.

With intrenched addiction, I believe we have to look after ourselves first. I am learning that this often a hard won attitude and not lightly taken.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Hi Blighty,
Mahalo for your reply.
There seem to be 2 broad conflicting messages out there which are confusing for parents :-
12 step: detaching with love
vs
"Craft" approach: stay connected.
It is confusing. In the event that my daughter does sincerely wish to change her lifestyle, I would like to be there for her. The hard part is that relapse is always a possibility. Reconnecting becomes somewhat of a gamble. Especially since both of my daughters have been using for so long. It would take some pretty big steps on their end, for me to let my guard down. I can’t imagine being connected while my two are using. That didn’t work when hubs was alive. He would wash my eldest’s clothes, make her something to eat, then she would disappear back to the streets. It was heart-wrenching.I would never know what to expect coming home from work. I came home one day to find her and “friends” hanging out in my back yard. 😖 That was scary. It feels dangerous to be “connected” to loved ones who are off the rails with meth. That’s just my opinion and experience. My hubs cousin, in her 80’s tried to help her grandson. He wound up with meth psychosis and threatened to kill her. I don’t know what the “Craft” people would say to that. I found that the therapist who was counseling Tornado on one rehab stint was focused on connecting family to her without regard for what that meant for us. No bueno.
With intrenched addiction, I believe we have to look after ourselves first. I am learning that this often a hard won attitude and not lightly taken.
Yes, we matter. The old “put the oxygen mask on first” example. Self preservation. If the repercussions of my way-ward daughters choices take such a toll on my mental and physical well being, then I have to do something to protect myself. You are so right that it is a hard won attitude. I do love them so. But, I will not follow them down this path they have been on for so long. If and when they decide they have had enough, and show that by action, I will reconsider. In the meantime, I will leave them in Gods care, and pray for them to see their potential one day.
Thank you for your kindness,
Leaf
 
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