Just feeling weak about the collateral damage

[New Leaf]

Hi Sam, I have been following along and am happy that your husband was able to communicate.

How wonderful that your H could see the toll on both of your sons, and on you, and to reach across the chasm like that.

It is wonderful. Men are much different from women. Hubs couldn't speak much about what was happening to our d cs, to all of us.

your voice here is exemplary and undaunting.

I totally agree. Thank you Sam.

Maybe the best we can hope for is that they'll follow the trail to less dangerous places. And know the source is always there.

My Rain has been distant for a long time. I do so hope she will find her potential, and know that we all love her.
I am glad things are better for you Sam.
Do take care.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

my son pinned m to the ground and gave him a black eye, maybe 3 or 4 years ago. my son actually broke my foot 11 years ago.

both times my son expressed he was defending himself from us. neither of us had touched him.

what is mystifying to me is that neither m nor i that i am aware of processed a crossing the line. in no way do i believe this is a good thing. both of us grew up in alcoholic families where there was abuse.

until this thread i had not reflected on this.

thank you.

 

[RN0441]

Sam:

My son and husband have had a few altercations in our home; thankfully it was many years ago.

However, I'm not proud to say that my husband was the aggressor. It happened because he was so frustrated and angry and son was high and had been high for some time.

I can't even let myself go to the way that I felt at the time. I felt like we were in an episode of Jerry Springer or Cops.

When you see your loving family torn apart by drug use it is such a helpless and hopeless feeling. There is no answer, no way out and nowhere to turn.

I cannot imagine anything worse than being in this situation.

I also can identify more with dysfunction than my husband because my mother was an alcoholic so I did see a lot as a child. My husband, on the other hand, had two loving parents that maybe drank one beer his entire childhood that he can remember!

Men handle all of this so much differently than us. I remember my son said to me when he was sober "mom, it's just so hard for me". I felt that to my very core. My husband thought it was just an excuse but I knew that he was being sincere at that moment.

If this isn't evil at work, then I just don't know what is!

 

[Sam3]

However, I'm not proud to say that my husband was the aggressor. It happened because he was so frustrated and angry and son was high and had been high for some time.

I can't even let myself go to the way that I felt at the time. I felt like we were in an episode of Jerry Springer or Cops.

When you see your loving family torn apart by drug use it is such a helpless and hopeless feeling. There is no answer, no way out and nowhere to turn.

You are right. And it’s hard to sleep at night when you follow them to low places, against your character, in a desperate attempt to get them to see the light.

We went there ourselves, after an extended downward spiral, toward the end before my son went to inpatient.

And it was like an involuntary act. In one minute, we were desperately trying to disabuse my son of his distorted reasoning and keep him from running away to another danger. In the next, I’m backed up against my son with outstretched arms saying “don’t, don’t, don’t” as my husband flexed on him. Saying “if you hit him, you know it will hurt you more than him.” My husband agreed and thanked me and backed down.

Within 5 minutes, my own hand came across and slapped my son’s face so hard it stung.

It wasn’t that he said or did something that offended me in new ways. It was my body screaming with the realization that I could not keep my son safe.

And I didn’t realize then that he wasn’t there to shock back into reality.

As we’ve learned better, we’ve done better. I know those are days we won’t go back to.

But they are important memories, I think. Maybe even for them.

Like that addict said about grandma Ksm trying to chase the losers away from her granddaughter with a baseball bat — “she must really love you, no one in my family would do that for me.”

At least I hope that might be the takeaway. Desperate times.

 

[Sam3]

Reposting here

He lost the baby step momentum and started pulling the walls down around himself again — sabotaged his last close friendship, his ex-GFs sobriety, and my efforts to keep him supported by professionals and housed.

Next step? He’s in detox or homeless again.

Of course the pot, booze, shattered coffee table and abusive tongue won’t be the reasons. It will be because I’m an f’in B, who kicked him out again.

 

[so ready to live]

Oh Sam. I hurt with your heart today.

started pulling the walls down around himself again

There's so much learning to be had in suffering consequences of our actions. As much as it hurts to watch, try to take a break from your mind. Do anything that helps you forget the mess of it all, even for a minute.

..you've both shown remarkable resilience, courage, strength and love in an impossibly difficult situation.

I so respect the effort you and your hubs have made. You've done all you could. Now's the time to rest and try to let this play out. That alone was always the hardest for us, the urgency equated to "what could we do?". It was /is an every minute thing to rest and refrain. Hold on, you've proved yourselves to be strong, going through what none of us should ever have to experience. We're here. Hugs.

 

[RN0441]

Stay strong.

You're doing all you can do.

Keep us posted.

 

[Albatross]

I’m so sorry, Sam. The addict is in control right now, and the addict is a mean little SOB. I hope your son chooses detox. Good for you for letting him see where his choices now will lead him.

 

[Littleboylost]

I responded on the other post. You are not alone dear Sam

 

[Sam3]

Thank you everyone, again, for being here. I wept at your understanding and kindness. Your words of support are like little fireflies in this really dark time.

This is uncharted space for me. I realize the addict is doing the talking, but he has also crossed a red line. Wasted or not, right and wrong still exist. He has called me the foulest things, three times in as many months, only during one of which he was clearly possessed by Xanax.

A week ago, I was a source of hope for him and now I have to go non-comm, to honor my integrity.

Cedar once described this process like trying to help someone who is drowning, but who also glares at you with hatred.

For me it’s like that, but he’s biting my wrists and I’m profusely bleeding as I’m trying to fish him out. At the same time, he’s hitting me upside the head with the stone tablet he has etched his Mom blame on.

For the first time, I have this “either him or me” feeling.

 

[Copabanana]

sam. i am so sorry. i tried to post earlier but was wiped out. i wish i'd persevered.

in the post that got erased i seemed to have something to say that i felt was useful. right now, nothing. but that never stopped me.

this is a process. we are being recreated by it. our egos smashed to bits. but we are not just our egos. we are our selves, our cores are there, too.

i am trying to look at devastating events and circumstances in another way. a way that can serve me.

how can i reframe this, so that i can learn? how can this disaster be my teacher? how can i draw close to myself, to hold myself and heal? what is beyond the agony?

we cannot save our sons. but they can save themselves. they can and they do.

these are crashing waves. yes. but each wave recedes.

i grew up across the street from the pacific. etched in me is the image of the glistening, wet sand left by the receding wave. to me, there is no more perfect image of peace.

every breath has an exhale too. you have within you this peace. sometimes that is our greatest resource. our only available resource. breath. a place to go in oneself.

i am getting less worked up lately. less hysterically agitating. less insistent on making things happen. needing to control the story.

i think i am gaining more faith in myself. my son. and life itself. you are too.

let him be. the him or you is a feeling. exhaling does not mean you lose him. just as exhaling does not mean you'll die. you are just creating space for more breath to enter. just that.

you are not alone.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Sam, I am so sorry for the hurt of it. You have tried and tried and tried.

Of course the pot, booze, shattered coffee table and abusive tongue won’t be the reasons. It will be because I’m an f’in B, who kicked him out again

Well, this is a place I have been to. Yup. Actually, probably still am at in the minds of my two. An f’in B. Broken items, holes in the walls, hello, Jerry Springer world. Doesn’t matter what we all have gone through, in their drugged minds, we are the problem, we don’t understand. Sigh. Keep praying for them to wake up, and I am stubbornly refusing to step backwards into active involvement as long as they are actively using. I can’t reach them, and they just walk all over my household. Okay steam roll over it. The giant sized one that presses smelly asphalt down. That’s what it all is, a smelly drug addicted road to h e double l and they will take down anyone nice enough to try to help. Asphalt. Ass fault. Everyone else’s fault but theirs. Sorry. On a roll with that one.
Flattened and stuck with tar and goo. Many, many times, that’s how I felt after another steam rolling episodic ending to another time trying.

This is uncharted space for me. I realize the addict is doing the talking, but he has also crossed a red line. Wasted or not, right and wrong still exist. He has called me the foulest things, three times in as many months, only during one of which he was clearly possessed by Xanax.

Been there too, with young son witnessing the whole thing. Add in my three grands, wide eyed and clinging to each other. Drug crazed mother running circles outside my locked house screaming at the top of her lungs for God and everyone else to hear that I am just a f-ing haole (racial slur) B. Like 20 times. At 7:00 am.
This, after I had taken my grands in for yet another summer.
Sigh.
Well.
We try. We love them, so we try.
No one can say you haven’t tried.

A week ago, I was a source of hope for him and now I have to go non-comm, to honor my integrity.

It is for his integrity as well, Sam, that you not allow your son to treat you this way. Your home. It is for him as well. We have to be able to look ourselves in the mirror, but in the end all, so do they.

At the same time, he’s hitting me upside the head with the stone tablet he has etched his Mom blame on.

I believe it reaches a point where their abuse of us equals their drug crazed self abuse. Like toddlers throwing tantrums and continuing, even though they have gotten what they wanted.
There is no rhyme or reason to it.
Addiction is a hateful, demonic beast, devouring everything and everyone in its path.

For the first time, I have this “either him or me” feeling.

Been here too, dear. It’s exhausting. I am so sorry.
It isn’t that I have given up on my two. I have given in to thinking that I am the one to help them. I don’t have the capacity, funds, and I am just bloody over being used.
I just know they view me in their drug hazed minds as an opportunity, someone to hoodwink, manipulate and gaslight. I am as dangerous for them, as they are for me.
Yup, it’s hard this way also, knowing my two are out there doing whatever.
But, after so many years, I have come to realize that they will do what they do, no matter what.
I kept throwing the life line out. Instead of pulling them aboard the sobriety ship, they yanked us all into the addicts darky deep.
Do I love them?
Gulp.
With all of my heart.
It is truly either them or me.
I don’t hardly recognize them.
It is so not what I thought of long ago reading “The places you’ll go.”
It does not mean your son will be on this path as long as my two have.
He may have more of a chance, knowing that you will not put up with his shenanigans any more.

let him be. the him or you is a feeling. exhaling does not mean you lose him. just as exhaling does not mean you'll die. you are just creating space for more breath to enter. just that.

Don’t write the end of the story.
It is another Wednesday.
I am talking to myself too.
Exhale, inhale, breathe.
It has been a long hard road Sam.
Be kind to yourself.
I am so sorry.
You are not alone.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Albatross]

I'm so sorry, Sam. Your post is so painful and so raw.

Wasted or not, right and wrong still exist.

A week ago, I was a source of hope for him and now I have to go non-comm, to honor my integrity.

For the first time, I have this “either him or me” feeling.

Yes, of course. He has gone too far, WAY too far. I think Leafy captured it perfectly. It is HIS integrity too, as well as your own. What he is doing is unacceptable.

The addict is behind the wheel, but he is still the one who handed over the keys.

Until then, whoever/whatever he has decided to let drive...well, that's just not anyone worthy of your taking one more second of abuse. I think you are absolutely correct in saying NO MORE, and continuing to say NO MORE until he SHOWS you he has made some changes.

 

[RN0441]

So this conversation makes me think of Long Island Medium which I am behind on but did watch an episode last night.

Many times the episodes are about loved ones that are lost to addiction. Of course last night was one of those episodes and it really cuts me to the core.

I have been very angry at my son for all the pain he has caused me and his dad, our family and most of all HIMSELF.

It's just a reminder of the enormity and seriousness of what we are dealing with. At times I don't know where to place my anger or how to deal with the anger. It's at the addiction but it's also directed at him and I feel this is wrong but what to do with it?

It's not like we'd be mad at our son or daughter if they had cancer or some other disease. I want to work it out in my head logically but there is no logic to any of it.

Sam3 I'm sorry for your pain but we are all pulling for you and your son.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I'm so sorry Sam.
Sending sincere wishes for peace and solace for you.....and many warm hugs.

 

[Sam3]

let him be. the him or you is a feeling. exhaling does not mean you lose him. just as exhaling does not mean you'll die. you are just creating space for more breath to enter. just that.

You are gifted with words, Copa. You are right. If I let go, neither he nor I will go under. He'll keep floundering until he doesn't and I'll stand up again.

running circles outside my locked house screaming at the top of her lungs for God and everyone else to hear that I am just a f-ing haole (racial slur)

What??? Sistah, if he called me "f-ing hapa," he'd be pau !!
(Had saimin and malasadas two weeks ago! Thought about your family)

It is for his integrity as well, Sam, that you not allow your son to treat you this way. Your home. It is for him as well. We have to be able to look ourselves in the mirror, but in the end all, so do they.

Thank you. I see it that way too. It's bad for him if I tolerate that behavior.

It's not like we'd be mad at our son or daughter if they had cancer or some other disease. I want to work it out in my head logically but there is no logic to any of it.

This is the hard part. It is a disease. But it's a disease with a voice, and no known end date. And the cure depends on the sufferer "deciding" and working their recovery. Cancer patients cannot decide their disease away.

Sam3 I'm sorry for your pain but we are all pulling for you and your son.

This means so much to me. And I am doing the same for all of your families.

and many warm hugs.

thank you.

 

[Littleboylost]

Like toddlers throwing tantrums and continuing, even though they have gotten what they wanted.
There is no rhyme or reason to it.
Addiction is a hateful, demonic beast, devouring everything and everyone in its path.

His is the pet that is so so so serial to me. I don’t think I will ever adjust or comprehend this crazed behaviour ever! It is like a demonic possession. I like Gabor Mates explanation that this is a Bio psycho Social disease. Indeed it is. They are genetically predisposed to the addiction, they are truly otherworld “upside down”!our of their minds and clearly socially out of order. This is indeed very different from any other disease baffles rh mind.

Don’t write the end of the story.
It is another Wednesday.
I am talking to myself too.

And this goes hand in hand with my comment above. How they can just flip a switch and become so normal after such crazed and maddening behaviour will never ceaser to baffle me. Deer in head lights every single time.

 

[New Leaf]

How they can just flip a switch and become so normal after such crazed and maddening behaviour will never ceaser to baffle me.

I call it the terrible awfuls, it used to send me reeling into the darky deep.
Suspended in shock in the in between of breathing and not.
Turns out, my two have no memory of their outbursts of insanity, or they choose not to.
They would seem surprised at my recollection.
Like “Oh.....that.....”
Silence.
No apologies.

What??? Sistah, if he called me "f-ing hapa," he'd be pau !!
(Had saimin and malasadas two weeks ago! Thought about your family)

You know, it was so dramatic and awful at the time. Looking back, I am like "Helloooooooo, you are half of me, silly girl."
It is so chilly here, saimin sounds yummy right now!

After a few of those episodes I realized I was going to the pit of despair, and they were......partying.
Gaslighting?
Manipulation?
Drug induced psychosis?
Or, all of the above.
Who knows?
One thing I do know is that it all seems designed to keep us here.

Nope, not going there.

Our stories are all different, yet so similar.
We see them flailing in the whirlpool of it and jump in to save them, end up nearly drowning our selves.

Just another Wednesday, they are out doing what they do, and we are still shivering from the fallout.

And the cure depends on the sufferer "deciding" and working their recovery. Cancer patients cannot decide their disease away.

So very, very true.
Well, it may or may not be a long haul.The end of the story is not yet written. They can decide and work on recovery, or not.
We can, in the meantime, keep working on and rebuilding our strength, one day, one step at a time.
Pulling for you Sam.
Stay strong and keep your chin up.
You've got this.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[BusynMember]

Leafy, my son screws up his face when reminded of a bad thing he did and says, "oh, come on. That didn't happen."
Gaslighting.

 

[New Leaf]

Leafy, my son screws up his face when reminded of a bad thing he did and says, "oh, come on. That didn't happen."
Gaslighting.

Mine don't acknowledge a thing. What a world they live in.

Well, CD is a sort of chronicle of stuff we have endured.
A testimony of resilience and strength.
Gaslighting.
So not accepting that stuff.
Okay, accepting it, they do it, but not falling for it.
Off to work, Swot and everyone have a wonderful day!

Leafy