Last night he said "no contact." He called this morning.

[Tanya M]

Where do I buy this? I just looked up recipes, my goodness.

We have a local ice cream shop that make all homemade ice cream and this one is my new favorite

However you feel does not take away your responsibility to say or do the right thing.There is nothing more to say than that. Goodbye. I hope it works out for you.

I did not say one more thing. Not I love you. I did not touch him or hug him or kiss him. He left. Silent.

Actually, I felt disgusted. I felt complete. I now feel sad. Empty.

I think you did great Copa. I know how hard that must have been for you. You are emotionally drained so it's no wonder you feel sad and empty.

Now you need to re-charge your batteries. Take time for COPA.

I will think about how to get out of the assault and battery of the phone calls.

You may want to try just texting. My son has not had a phone for several years now and we communicate via FB private messages. I find it so much easier. It gives me time to really think about what I'm going to say to him.
I miss hearing his voice, but what I'm missing is the voice of someone from a long time ago, I do not miss hearing him in the depressed, dragging tone or the hatefulness in his voice. Yup, I like communicating via typed messages.

You will find a way that works for you. You've come a long way in a short time Copa, you really are doing great.

 

[Seeking Peace]

Sorry copa

You offered to help, it's not what he wanted from you. He wanted the ticket for the train and for you to just take care of it. I'm glad you didn't.

If it's important, he'll figure it out on his own. Not yours to fix for him.

 

[Seeking Peace]

Copa,

I'm still learning about the site! Just responded to a post by you hours ago which is now outdated....

I think space is important. Furthermore, your son has an opportunity to make something good out of this. Hope he does. But if he doesn't, it's his own choice. You cannot do it. I think if he stays there awhile, it will get easier for you to breath and relax.

You're not alone! Keep posting!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I am still stuck on why son exploded when Copa suggested she would no longer be involved with his treatment. Is it because Copa is freeing herself and he does not want to lose this leverage over her?

So...is son coldly and brutally aware of his manipulation of Copa through his illness?

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

is son coldly and brutally aware of his manipulation of Copa through his illness?

On some level, I believe he is consciously manipulating me. Why else say that he could go get his blood work done at the University Hospital when he arrived in the Big City on the train. After he had resisted doing so over and over again. When I wanted it.

He thinks I am so stupid as to believe him? That I will do his bidding because he says the magic words? Not any more. It offends.

Or it could be, too, that he felt it to be a rejection. That I no longer wanted to be in the center of it all. Look at the lost power. What is that thing called? A rope that is pulled on each side by people. And then one side lets go? I let go. He is left with the feelings. And the responsibility.

His rage at me, in part, has to come from his sense that I am not complying as he wants me too. As well as his increasing desperation about himself and his own life.

If I think of my self...and how to protect and care for me...I am more than a Mother...I am a good soul.

How does a loving mother protect her self in this kind of situation...where her son uses his own life as a manipulative tool?

I am very sad this morning. I wake up very sad every morning.

Thank you Cedar, for caring.

 

[Lil]

I am very sad this morning. I wake up very sad every morning.

Me too.

Hang in there Copa....it will get better. I have faith that it will get better.

 

[Copabanana]

My son just called.

SON: Hi.

ME: Hi (No how are you, no what's up. Just hi.)

SON: Well, I worked Tuesday and Wednesday. Today is the only day I have to go to the hospital and get my blood work done. Craig, the roommate took the key, so I have to wait for him to get home (the excuse reveals itself.) I will go today because I will not have another chance for awhile because of work.

ME: Oh.

Son: I will call you tonight and let you know.

 

[Tanya M]

I'm glad he called you. I think you did well in not asking him any questions. The simpler the better.

 

[pasajes4]

Perfect

 

[Childofmine]

Copa, I just read the whole thread from start to finish. You are doing great. Truly.

I rated your last post "Winner" because he called, and you said only two words: Hi and Oh. ding.ding.ding.ding...can you hear me declaring you a winner? This is truly where I believe we have to get, before they have a true chance.

Your son sounds very functional to me, in what you say that he says. He sounds like he can do it if he chooses to.

That gives me a lot of hope for him.

He's in another city and he's making all kinds of plans. That's what we want, right? For them to DO IT ON THEIR OWN.

Copa, about the ticket, it's not so much the ticket, it's how the whole situation affects YOU. It's whether buying the ticket is something you really want to do---for whatever reason---or if it's just one more thing to resent and feel duped about.

Reading along, this is getting more and more to be about you and not about him. That is huge. It's the 51%/49% thing. You're 51% and he's 49%.

There will be things you decide to do...and then things you decide not to do...and really, it doesn't matter.

Now, here is what I had to do---I had to go no contact. Completely. For a while. Here is how I told him about what I wanted to do. He was homeless. He was driving me nuts. Texting, calling, FB messaging...they are amazing when they want something. They WILL FIND A WAY. Don't you ever worry for a single minute about that. (I used to worry a lot about that). Hundreds of texts a day...like this...?????????....or .................

He just wanted to engage me. It was insanity.

So...I said this: I will talk with you on the phone once a week on Saturdays between 10 and 11 a.m. If you call or text or FB message me at any other time, I will not respond.

Son: But, I don't even have a phone and I have no idea if I will be able to get to a phone during that time or even borrow one or even find a computer...or...or....

Me: I'm sure you'll figure it out.

And I stuck to that for nearly a month.

That is what it had to come to, for me and for him.

My son was the kind that...take a 1/4 inch...he will take 100 miles. If you even hinted at weakness...he went in for the kill.

He was not going to deal with life on his own as long as he could get me to participate.

The lengths we have to go to...here on this site...are incredible.

Now, you are making so much progress. I hope you are starting to see some light. I see a lot of light for you Copa, and for him.

Hang in there. Keep on. You're getting there. Warm hugs for you today.

 

[Copabanana]

Hundreds of texts a day...like this...?????????....or .................

He just wanted to engage me. It was insanity.

He was not going to deal with life on his own as long as he could get me to participate.

COM, what lies behind it?

Is it fear of losing us or leaving us behind? Or is it fear of standing alone? Or what?

Did your son want your participation to make you responsible? Or to feel he was not?

Why do you think your son needed your participation...that you be constantly involved?

Thank you, COM

 

[Childofmine]

Or is it fear of standing alone?

Copa, one time when my son was growing up---before the high school years---he said this: Mom, I don't want to grow up.

He was dead serious.

I had never heard anything like that before. You know, most kids want to be grown up NOW. They want all of the privileges of adulthood (that they perceive are so great).

I think my son has always been afraid of responsibility. I think he has never thought he could count on himself. He has never felt good about himself. Like he was capable enough.

When he was a little boy, he hated new situations. He would cling to me for the longest times, weeks, into months, when he had to go to a new preschool or new class or a new sport for the first time, or whatever.

He hung back.

He had anxiety. He still bites his fingernails. He moves a lot when he is standing in the kitchen talking to you. He's walking back and forth. I think it's still anxiety.

He is doing it, though. Doing life. I think that is what he has to do---to see himself do it. He has to see himself actually do it.

Now, he is still not completely standing alone, Copa. He has a lot of emotional support from his dad and me. He has people he can go to---us---for things, just to talk or vent or ask for help.

Last week I gave him $20 because he was short for his cell phone bill.

Copa, a year ago I wouldn't give him $1. Not a penny of cash. For any reason whatsoever. I didn't trust him at all.

Today, my ex-husband (his dad) and I are helping him some. This is something I am doing very gingerly. I don't trust things yet. I don't want to harm him by my so-called help. He must do this. He must walk through the paces. He needs to not be sure of things. And know he has to work really hard, and then fall into bed, exhausted, only to get up and do it all again the next day. This is the stuff of adulthood.

Copa, I am taking him and our relationship one day at a time. I don't know how to do it any other way right now.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I don't want to harm him by my so-called help. He must do this. He must walk through the paces. He needs to not be sure of things.

Yes. This is the heart of enabling. Our help, betraying our belief that they are not capable. The kids need to learn just like we do too or who knows where we would be today that challenges are scary, that not-knowing is scary ~ but that they have what it takes.

That is the thing our enabling takes away from them.

Self respect.

Maybe that is why they become so angry with us. Because in their hearts, on some level, they know this. Whether we have made them afraid or not is not the issue. As their mothers, it is our task to give them back their capacities for self respect. That begins with refusing to be disrespected ourselves, and continues with our belief that they will find their ways in the world.

Which is a hard thing to do when we are coming from maternal mode.

That is why it is good to have the words written down, in the beginning. We can speak what we know to be the correct response, whether we really believe in them or not.

Like COM, I am seeing this change in my behavior have amazing effect. It was a very hard thing for me in the beginning. Now, I see the rightness in it.

Now, I can celebrate and feel very strong, when I say: "You can." I am so much more certain now that I can say to myself: "He can. She can." and, though I cannot imagine how they will do it, I really do believe that they can.

And they are.

Isn't that an amazing thing.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

That is the thing our enabling takes away from them.

Self respect.

Maybe that is why they become so angry with us.

Yes. I also think my feelings, my mushiness and spinelessness (what I am now calling my Dough Boy Mode) makes it more difficult for him to figure things out for himself.

The enabling sends a message: You are not competent. I do not trust you. I know better. You cannot do it without me. You need me to be in control. You cannot do it without me.

How could this not be invalidating, disrespecting and insulting?

Over and above this, the emotionality and the confusion that results from poor boundaries...from getting into their heads...from accepting their negative affect into our heads...or responsibility for same. We actively contribute to the problems we purportedly seek to solve. In some many ways.

It is disempowering to everybody involved.

As their mothers, it is our task to give them back their capacities for self respect.

I do not think we can be responsible to do this. We can act in such a way to support their doing so. Only that.

That begins with refusing to be disrespected ourselves, and continues with our belief that they will find their ways in the world.

Yes.

I really do believe that they can.

Me too.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I do not think we can be responsible to do this. We can act in such a way to support their doing so. Only that.

You are right, Copa. But if we have diminished their capacities to believe in themselves through leaping in to smooth the path at every opportunity, and if we can instead project confidence that they can handle whatever it is on their own and that we trust them to do so, then that would be a way, would be a thing we could do and an attitude to hold, to counter whatever message we have sent about who they are before we learned what enabling is and what it means, not only to our relationships with the kids, but in how the kids see themselves.

That is another facet of the rottenness of enabling. We turn ourselves into cynics, and our kids into people who believe that if only the story is terrible enough ~ if only we believe they have been victimized enough by circumstances beyond their control, there is a payday.

And I never once was able to see it that way until, one day, I did.

Well, it took a long time actually.

And it started with SWOT's thread on verbal abuse between parent and adult child. Just that one little post I could not forget and kept going back to changed everything for me.

And so far, so it seems, for the kids.

Cedar

 

[Tyrrell]

Copa, in my opinion: stay strong and do not buy him a ticket. That's my new philosophy. Accept me, respect me, and love me because I love you - not for what I can do for you or buy you.