Need help adult daughter wont talk to me.

[Lioness]

This is the thing Lioness. That you do not want to accept. A relationship involves two people. It cannot be with just one. The fact that is unbearable to you does not change this one bit.

You do not control your daughter. You cannot make her love you or to feel love for you.

Whether you want this bad situation. Whether you like this bad situation. Matters not at all to her.

She gets to decide for her. And you for yourself.

She will always control herself. She will always do as she wishes. It may be wrong. She may be wrong. She may love you underneath and become agonized when you die. Or not.

You must accept that it is as it is. Or you will suffer.

I am not saying that your suffering is not important. It is important to you. I surely wish you did not suffer. But your suffering will not change one thing in the reality of things with your daughter.

The reality is that your daughter does not choose to be in a loving relationship with you. That makes you sad. What on earth can you do to make her act loving? Is there one thing that you can think of?

Of course you do not have to accept the reality of things. You can continue to beg her...and allow yourself to be hurt and demeaned.

I wish this was not the situation for you. It is. There is nobody that can help you find a way to magically make her do as you want, to love you.

Either continue to suffer or accept it and go on. Those are the only choices that you have. I wish things were different. That you could make her into somebody she does not want to be. There is not.

I know you are right I really do. But why does she text me and tell me she loves me sometimes? How can I live in the same area as her without seeing my grand daughter? She said that she wouldn't stop me seeing her but in reality we have only seen the baby 3 times! Before we had her overnight every week! I know life goes on but how will I fill up the hole?!!

 

[Lioness]

Three times in the last 7-8 weeks but not for an overnight stay. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Copabanana]

But why does she text me and tell me she loves me sometimes?

Who knows? She may not know. It may be a manipulation. It may be cruelty. It may be ambivalence. Or guilt. What does it matter, why she does it? If you knew the meaning, the whys, what would you do different? Would you run to her and try to talk her out of it? Do you think this would make a difference? It would make it worse, I think.

How can I live in the same area as her without seeing my grand daughter?

What are your options, Lioness? You might run into them. You can follow them. You can move. Or you can accept that you do not control her or the situation.

I know life goes on but how will I fill up the hole?!!

You decide, Lioness.

I am in the same boat. I feel I cannot live with my son in trouble. I want to die because he may die.

What in the world can I do? At least in my case there may be legal means whereby I can control him. At great cost. He would hate me. He would fight me. I would take away any autonomy he has or potential to have an independent life. Could I live with this, Lioness? I do not think so.

People face situations all of the time that they hate and cannot endure. I think what we are going through is the stages of grief. Who is the theorist, Elizabeth Kuber-Ross I think her name is? I think we are stuck at an early stage of grief.

Lioness, I saw your clarification, that there were no overnights.

Lioness, while we may be believers, there is no eternal judge that is watching with the power to decide what is the just thing for your daughter to do with respect to the baby...and make your daughter do it.

Whether I or anybody knows the ugly and cruel details of the situation MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. She will decide.

She chooses it. She will do as she wants. You or anybody cannot change it. Actually, I do not know if in your country grandparents have legal rights to some contact. They may. That would be the only way I can think of that you have any control. There is that possibility.

How you fill your life and what you do with it are the only things that you have control. Not one thing more.

 

[Lioness]

Who knows? She may not know. It may be a manipulation. It may be cruelty. It may be ambivalence. Or guilt. What does it matter, why she does it? If you knew the meaning, the whys, what would you do different? Would you run to her and try to talk her out of it? Do you think this would make a difference? It would make it worse, I think.
What are your options, Lioness? You might run into them. You can follow them. You can move. Or you can accept that you do not control her or the situation.
You decide, Lioness.

I am in the same boat. I feel I cannot live with my son in trouble. I want to die because he may die.

What in the world can I do? At least in my case there may be legal means whereby I can control him. At great cost. He would hate me. He would fight me. I would take away any autonomy he has or potential to have an independent life. Could I live with this, Lioness? I do not think so.

People face situations all of the time that they hate and cannot endure. I think what we are going through is the stages of grief. Who is the theorist, Elizabeth Kuber-Ross I think her name is? I think we are stuck at an early stage of grief.

Lioness, I saw your clarification, that there were no overnights.

Lioness, while we may be believers, there is no eternal judge that is watching with the power to decide what is the just thing for your daughter to do with respect to the baby...and make your daughter do it.



Whether I or anybody knows the ugly and cruel details of the situation MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. She will decide.

She chooses it. She will do as she wants. You or anybody cannot change it. Actually, I do not know if in your country grandparents have legal rights to some contact. They may. That would be the only way I can think of that you have any control. There is that possibility.

How you fill your life and what you do with it are the only things that you have control. Not one thing more.

Copa I feel for you I really do, its the helplessness that cuts you. The lack of any control over these dreadful circumstances. I am a born fighter and will die for things and people I believe in. I don't give up easily. Maybe, you are right we are grieving. The last time I felt like this was when my first husband left me with my three young children, for his mistress. I still loved him, you see. We had been together since aged 16 and 20 years later he left. But i got over this eventually. But the pain of rejection from my own flesh and blood is intolerable. This forum gives me the chance to howl my pain without fear of judgement and I'm so grateful to everyone. I have a full life, yet as I said before this hole is like a gaping wound that won't heal. I have two other adult children whom I have good relationships with. My difficult childs behaviour and distance from me has stopped us all from getting together like we normally do at my house on Sundays. I don't feel like I can pretend. Its a mess

 

[Copabanana]

Copa I feel for you I really do, its the helplessness that cuts you. The lack of any control over these dreadful circumstances. I am a born fighter and will die for things and people I believe in. I don't give up easily.

Lioness, you remind me of myself. I used to describe myself as a mother bear. In protecting and fighting for my son and his interests I was relentless. I would never give up.

I am not speaking from helplessness. I am speaking from my sense of what reality is.

Your daughter is a separate person now. She can decide for herself what she wants. She can say no, and you cannot override her. She is an adult now. She sees her interests as separate from yours. She has decided for whatever reason to oppose you on the matter of contact with her, and contact with your granddaughter.

Now you are in a situation where you are no longer fighting for your child. You would be fighting her. You would be fighting her right to make a decision about her relationship with you. You would be fighting her in her determination to make decisions about her child.

She has the legal and moral right to make decisions that involve her child. Not you. This is reality. A reality that you can respect or not.

If you continue to fight her as indeed you have a right to do, you will have to accept that she may dig in further, against you. That this situation could worsen.

Indeed, there is a sense of helplessness that we can no longer make our adult children do what we want and need them to do. In my case it is difficult because I only want my son to be able to live.

But there is a power in this as well.

At any point we can decide that we do have power over ourselves. We can decide unilaterally over things that concern us.

Thank you for the opportunity for clarifying my thoughts. Of course we can only speak for ourselves or know for ourselves. No one else.

Take care.

 

[Lioness]

Lioness, you remind me of myself. I used to describe myself as a mother bear. In protecting and fighting for my son and his interests I was relentless. I would never give up.

I am not speaking from helplessness. I am speaking from my sense of what reality is.

Your daughter is a separate person now. She can decide for herself what she wants. She can say no, and you cannot override her. She is an adult now. She sees her interests as separate from yours. She has decided for whatever reason to oppose you on the matter of contact with her, and contact with your granddaughter.

Now you are in a situation where you are no longer fighting for your child. You would be fighting her. You would be fighting her right to make a decision about her relationship with you. You would be fighting her in her determination to make decisions about her child.

She has the legal and moral right to make decisions that involve her child. Not you. This is reality. A reality that you can respect or not.

If you continue to fight her as indeed you have a right to do, you will have to accept that she may dig in further, against you. That this situation could worsen.

Indeed, there is a sense of helplessness that we can no longer make our adult children do what we want and need them to do. In my case it is difficult because I only want my son to be able to live.

But there is a power in this as well.

At any point we can decide that we do have power over ourselves. We can decide unilaterally over things that concern us.

Thank you for the opportunity for clarifying my thoughts. Of course we can only speak for ourselves or know for ourselves. No one else.

Take care.

I know that what you are saying makes sense. Your desire for your son to live isn't enough he needs to want it but I find that so hard to accept. You are an amazing person to get through this. My daughter knows that what she is doing is killing me she wants to punish me and the best way is exactly what she's doing now. But Iam not and was not a bad mother and I'm a good loving Grandma too! She is punishing her child as well as me. That's so wrong. I feel that this will only get worse as when my grand daughter understands she will probably poison her against me too. I can't cope with this situation any longer. I don't wAnt to abandon my other two adult children but feel like moving as far away as possible as then the physical distance may help. It's better for me to not see or hear anything. In the new year I will sell my house and get a smaller place maybe in Greece far away and start a new life. I can't take this situation any longer. Call me weak but I need to get away it's making me unwell and sad all the time. Thank you for taking the time I appreciate it. I wish you lots of strength and good wishes to get through your situation with your son.

 

[BusynMember]

You will have to give up. You can't change her. The effort u put into trying is wasted and will do know good. It didn't change ur mother and your ex and it won't change your daughter. It will ruin your life and your other kids may start getting mad at you over this.

 

[Copabanana]

I don't wAnt to abandon my other two adult children but feel like moving as far away as possible as then the physical distance may help. It's better for me to not see or hear anything. In the new year I will sell my house and get a smaller place maybe in Greece far away and start a new life.

Lioness, where ever you go I hope you keep posting.

I think I will leave here where I live too. At least for awhile. To a place where there are things that I love to do. A big City with all kinds of people. That is what I like.

I have always loved Greece although I have never been: The food, the terrain, the culture and people. The white houses on the Islands or in the Mountains to the North. This would be a good choice I think. It would be choosing for you, giving yourself what you need.

And I would be choosing for me, if I left here. To make a new and different life.

Of course we can never leave our children really. But I think it would be good for your daughter, too. She would have to face herself and her choices. She could no longer deal with her own emotions by targeting you or manipulating you. She would have to face herself. You would no longer be there.

We have to move beyond this horrible pain. My culture is similar to yours in how we are as mothers. My Mother was atypical. We love our children with a fierce intensity. I think part of my son's difficulty is this. Now that he is an adult he has trouble living without the strength and protection that my love has given him. He must handle this. I cannot.

Now it is time that I give that love to myself.

You too, Lioness.

I hope you do it, Lioness. I hope you go to Greece or somewhere equally lovely and nourishing. And I hope I go where I need to, too. Thank you.

PS You would not, I think, be abandoning your other children.

 

[Lioness]

You will have to give up. You can't change her. The effort u put into trying is wasted and will do know good. It didn't change ur mother and your ex and it won't change your daughter. It will ruin your life and your other kids may start getting mad at you over this.

I don't want to agree with you but I know I have no chance of changing my daughter. You are right on this. Somehow I have to come to terms with it. One day maybe I will....

 

[Lioness]

Lioness, where ever you go I hope you keep posting.

I think I will leave here where I live too. At least for awhile. To a place where there are things that I love to do. A big City with all kinds of people. That is what I like.

I have always loved Greece although I have never been: The food, the terrain, the culture and people. The white houses on the Islands or in the Mountains to the North. This would be a good choice I think. It would be choosing for you, giving yourself what you need.

And I would be choosing for me, if I left here. To make a new and different life.

Of course we can never leave our children really. But I think it would be good for your daughter, too. She would have to face herself and her choices. She could no longer deal with her own emotions by targeting you or manipulating you. She would have to face herself. You would no longer be there.

We have to move beyond this horrible pain. My culture is similar to yours in how we are as mothers. My Mother was atypical. We love our children with a fierce intensity. I think part of my son's difficulty is this. Now that he is an adult he has trouble living without the strength and protection that my love has given him. He must handle this. I cannot.

Now it is time that I give that love to myself.

You too, Lioness.

I hope you do it, Lioness. I hope you go to Greece or somewhere equally lovely and nourishing. And I hope I go where I need to, too. Thank you.

PS You would not, I think, be abandoning your other children.

Thank you for understanding. I never thought that being a protective loving mother could be so negative. I personally would have thrived in a loving environment that I created for my children. Even as adults it one of them is ill I ho straight round with chicken soup, magazines and anything else they need. I have always been there for them. Why do I have to change who Iam? I have to get through this year and help my youngest fly the nest. Once I know she's settled then I will make my changes. Changes to nurture me. I hope for you too Copa that you can get away from it all too. You deserve some peace we all do on this forum. Maybe when we look after value and respect ourselves more then our adult children may feel differently about us. I miss my little Grand daughter so much this is something I find very hard. In my greek culture we are so close with our grandchildren she is my first and only so far. We have been so close yet I can't see her. I know I ramble on but I'm too embarassed to tell anyone else in my life about my reality. Take care Copa try and find ways to break up your day. I actually went to the gym twice this week for the first time this Year as I stopped all activities when I became unwell. From the time my daughter started this cruel vendetta I stopped socialising stopped my life. I'm forcing myself to try to live and not stay at home depressed all the time. Look after yourself.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I know Iam not but somehow my mothers rejection is tangled with my daughters.

There is a direct correlation, Lioness.

When our kids are troubled, those old, condemnatory negatives from our broken childhoods take on weight and volume. I think our kids throw all kinds of things at us. Having survived what we survived in our childhoods, we are so much stronger than we know ~ but one day, there is one thing, in that blizzard of accusations our kids throw at us, that strikes to the core of whatever traumas are left unhealed at the heart of us.

And we break through some kind of barrier or something, and find ourselves vulnerable, raw in a new way, and in very dark territory.

I am glad you are here with us.

We made it through Lioness, and you will, too.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Maybe when we look after value and respect ourselves more then our adult children may feel differently about us. I miss my little Grand daughter so much this is something I find very hard. In my greek culture we are so close with our grandchildren she is my first and only so far. We have been so close yet I can't see her.

We will feel differently about us, Lioness.

Your grandchild is so fortunate to have a grandmother like you. I know you will never stop fighting for your right to love and defend and make her strong. One day, she will be old enough to come to you on her own.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I know I ramble on but I'm too embarassed to tell anyone else in my life about my reality.

One of the primary values of this site is that we order our thoughts to communicate them clearly to one another. The other is that we are heard and understood and upheld; in confessing our pain and confusion, we learn we are not alone. We stop condemning ourselves or anyone else.

We learn how to do this hard thing, how to survive it intact, from one another.

You are not rambling, Lioness.

Every word you write is an important piece in clarifying and defining what is happening in your family, and why.

We all are learning from, and drawing strength and support from, one another, here.

:O)

Cedar

 

[witzend]

I know you are right I really do. But why does she text me and tell me she loves me sometimes? How can I live in the same area as her without seeing my grand daughter? She said that she wouldn't stop me seeing her but in reality we have only seen the baby 3 times! Before we had her overnight every week! I know life goes on but how will I fill up the hole?!!

Maybe she does it to see if you will block her number so sure can show people how awful you are. Maybe she does it to hurt you. Maybe she gets a kick out of having you beg to see your granddaughter. She sounds cruel to me. These are things my daughter would do. Did do if I had not made it perfectly clear thatshe wasto nevercontact meagain. There was no "right" reaction because every reaction could be used against me in some way. I think your best way to protect yourself from her is to reply "I love you too. Have a great day!"

All I can say about master manipulators is that there is NOTHING you can ever put in writing beyond that which they will not show someone as "proof" of your shortcomings. Never ask a question. Only true statements. "I love you too" even though you are a sick little b.... who gets a kick out of torturing me and I am not going to accommodate you. "Have a great day" and leave me the heck out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I think our my daughter and the two grandchildren I've never met every day. But she's a poisonous little snake, and best left alone. You don't have to go that far, I hope. But I wouldn't play by her rules, that gane is rigged for you to lose, even if she doesn't comprehend that she can't win it.

 

[Lioness]

Maybe she does it to see if you will block her number so sure can show people how awful you are. Maybe she does it to hurt you. Maybe she gets a kick out of having you beg to see your granddaughter. She sounds cruel to me. These are things my daughter would do. Did do if I had not made it perfectly clear thatshe wasto nevercontact meagain. There was no "right" reaction because every reaction could be used against me in some way. I think your best way to protect yourself from her is to reply "I love you too. Have a great day!"

All I can say about master manipulators is that there is NOTHING you can ever put in writing beyond that which they will not show someone as "proof" of your shortcomings. Never ask a question. Only true statements. "I love you too" even though you are a sick little b.... who gets a kick out of torturing me and I am not going to accommodate you. "Have a great day" and leave me the heck out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I think our my daughter and the two grandchildren I've never met every day. But she's a poisonous little snake, and best left alone. You don't have to go that far, I hope. But I wouldn't play by her rules, that gane is rigged for you to lose, even if she doesn't comprehend that she can't win it.

It's so true the game is rigged. But everyone loses your daughter, you and your Grand daughter. The same for me. I'm not messaging her now. And when she does message me I will keep it short and neutral.

 

[Lioness]

There is a direct correlation, Lioness.

When our kids are troubled, those old, condemnatory negatives from our broken childhoods take on weight and volume. I think our kids throw all kinds of things at us. Having survived what we survived in our childhoods, we are so much stronger than we know ~ but one day, there is one thing, in that blizzard of accusations our kids throw at us, that strikes to the core of whatever traumas are left unhealed at the heart of us.

And we break through some kind of barrier or something, and find ourselves vulnerable, raw in a new way, and in very dark territory.

I am glad you are here with us.

We made it through Lioness, and you will, too.

Cedar

Perhaps we are stronger than we know Cedar but deep down we have our vulnerability and they know it. I have my youngest daughtets graduation to look forward to and Iam focussing on her as she deserves my attention. Our difficult children no which buttons to press to get our reaction. I will try to be as strong as possible. Thank you all your replies which as usual give me something to think about.

 

[nerfherder]

I have to get through this year and help my youngest fly the nest. Once I know she's settled then I will make my changes. Changes to nurture me.

I wonder what she'd say if you asked youngest "If you were in my shoes, what would you do to feel good and have fun?"

 

[witzend]

It's so true the game is rigged. But everyone loses your daughter, you and your Grand daughter.

Granddaughter and grandson - twins. I honestly don't think I'm losing. I have a beautiful husband and a beautiful home and two dogs who love me. I work part time from home and I have friends and hobbies. Yes, I don't see my blood relatives, but other than my father hunting me down through my sister (who used private records in her workplace to find me) no one has ever said anything to me in the last 3+ years since we moved across country that has made me take to my bed and cry for days, or made me feel as though I had to justify my own self to them or myself.

Sure, I do stupid things, and not everyone gets me. But it's no longer the end of the world. Things are stressful from time to time, but I don't have to conform myself to anyone. No one is blackmailing me or blackballing me because I don't play that game anymore.

It dawned on me the other day that while I always knew that my dad believed that all of his daughters (daughters are different than sons) would go to hell for being sl-t$ (we weren't virgins when we married) I finally know in my heart that there's nothing wrong with it. I always felt that there was nothing wrong with it for other people, and thought the notion of "carnal sin" was absurd, but somehow deep inside I thought there was something wrong with me. Something in the the news caught my eye the other day and it hit me - there's nothing wrong with me, either. It only took me 40 years later, 14 years away from my parents and siblings, and 1 year after my dad died to know it in my heart.

I haven't lost a thing. The sooner I know that I have shed the rest of the mental chains that bind, the better. I've never met my grandchildren, so there's nothing to miss. I'm good with it. If they feel badly about it they can come to me, but I doubt that will ever happen. You can't miss something you never knew.

 

[Lioness]

Granddaughter and grandson - twins. I honestly don't think I'm losing. I have a beautiful husband and a beautiful home and two dogs who love me. I work part time from home and I have friends and hobbies. Yes, I don't see my blood relatives, but other than my father hunting me down through my sister (who used private records in her workplace to find me) no one has ever said anything to me in the last 3+ years since we moved across country that has made me take to my bed and cry for days, or made me feel as though I had to justify my own self to them or myself.

Sure, I do stupid things, and not everyone gets me. But it's no longer the end of the world. Things are stressful from time to time, but I don't have to conform myself to anyone. No one is blackmailing me or blackballing me because I don't play that game anymore.

It dawned on me the other day that while I always knew that my dad believed that all of his daughters (daughters are different than sons) would go to hell for being sl-t$ (we weren't virgins when we married) I finally know in my heart that there's nothing wrong with it. I always felt that there was nothing wrong with it for other people, and thought the notion of "carnal sin" was absurd, but somehow deep inside I thought there was something wrong with me. Something in the the news caught my eye the other day and it hit me - there's nothing wrong with me, either. It only took me 40 years later, 14 years away from my parents and siblings, and 1 year after my dad died to know it in my heart.

I haven't lost a thing. The sooner I know that I have shed the rest of the mental chains that bind, the better. I've never met my grandchildren, so there's nothing to miss. I'm good with it. If they feel badly about it they can come to me, but I doubt that will ever happen. You can't miss something you never knew.

Oh my goodness! I can't believe that your Father was so harsh and similar to my Mum. She too thought I was a loose girl when I was 16 she found out I had a secret boyfriend. My mum was very old fashioned and "good" girls waited for their parents to find them a husband. If they did have s boyfriend then they had to marry him! Or they would be viewed as a prostitute! I think I was called names from a very young age. When I did marry and later got pregnant, I was scared to tell my Mum as obviously she would then know that I had sex! Seriously, the guilt they make you carry around! I know how you feel I really do. I was a virgin when I married as I was too scared to do orherwise. There is nothing wrong with you! You sound like a decent, kind person. Well done for letting go of all that baggage and guilt.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I haven't lost a thing. The sooner I know that I have shed the rest of the mental chains that bind, the better. I've never met my grandchildren, so there's nothing to miss. I'm good with it. If they feel badly about it they can come to me, but I doubt that will ever happen. You can't miss something you never knew.

Witz, you have been through so much with that horrible family.

Cedar