New Member......Need Help

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I do feel it needed reported.
Yes. I think so too. The fact that he tried to "cover up" his crime--what could they do, the parents? If they had not reported it, they would have colluded. Made it all about money (being paid back) when it was not in the main about money at all. It was about transgressions and consequences. The parents had no choice.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
If it was a friend of parents I knew well and there had been no trouble before I would have workred it out .its never happened to my kids. I am thinking most kids at his age dont steal from friends. Maybe young kids steal a little toy they want. I can see that. My kids did that at about eight at Kmart and they had to go back, confess to the security guard and the security guard thanked them for being honest and then sat them down telling them what happens when people steal. They were great with my kids. My kids were shaken but not traumatized and didnt fo it again.

But a teen, is a oroblem if he steals from a friend and I guess I was thinking that most likely if the teen would steal from a peer, he has probably already hadbehavioral problems. But again this never happened to any of my kids so being honest it is hard to know for sure what I would have done. Especially if I was friendly wirh the parents. That is different....harder.

This is a very difficult situation. You are a great mom with the responsibility for an extremely confusing young man and I commend you.
 

Sumsky

Active Member
Sumsky. This may not be deliberate, planned or even conscious. He may compartmentalize. Not want to or be able to think about what happened. He cannot face it.

You are the one who is ascribing motive to behavior that may not be motivated as much as defensive. Him protecting him against awareness of him.

I am in no way defending him. Or advocating for a diagnosis of one thing over another. I am saying YOU will be better served if you do not fill in the missing blanks with INTENT on his part, PLANNING on his part, DELIBERATION on his part. *Although these have not been ruled out, yet. This child is sick. He has fallen apart. He is trying to recoup. I feel for him. He must feel he is on the brink of losing everything. I really, really feel for his Dad and you, both of you.
Copabanana, This is exactly what we were told tonight. SS is not deliberately lying...he has basically created a fantasy for himself that he does not/cannot accept that he has done anything wrong. He can feel emotion. But as soon as he does he pushes it down and won’t accept it and reverts back to his fantasy that all is right with his world.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
SS is not deliberately lying...he has basically created a fantasy for himself that he does not/cannot accept that he has done anything wrong.
At once, this evaluation offers hope, but it is very sad for him. I feel for him. And I feel for you. Because you have to deal with this behavior that although defensive, because it is so rigid and automatic, presents such difficulties for those around him. You may not feel so now, but this is so good for him this is diagnosed early. He can be helped. I am wondering if they are thinking about Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Or interestingly, I think things like meditation and yoga may help him, as well. Even Art.

Sumsky. Please tell us more. Are they recommending residential treatment? What are they recommending? What are they diagnosing?

How are you? How is your husband? I am glad you are checking in.
 

Sumsky

Active Member
At once, this evaluation offers hope, but it is very sad for him. I feel for him. And I feel for you. Because you have to deal with this behavior that although defensive, because it is so rigid and automatic, presents such difficulties for those around him. You may not feel so now, but this is so good for him this is diagnosed early. He can be helped. I am wondering if they are thinking about Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Or interestingly, I think things like meditation and yoga may help him, as well. Even Art.

Sumsky. Please tell us more. Are they recommending residential treatment? What are they recommending? What are they diagnosing?

How are you? How is your husband? I am glad you are checking in.
She is recommending very intensive therapy. They mentioned trauma type therapy, I’m not sure if that is how they were referring to the intensity or what that was exactly. (Therapists were along and asked most of the questions) Starting out as a minimum of 3 times a week... but she also mentioned group therapy and inpatient. She said this is going to be a very long term treatment. She also said he is going to have a breaking point and she’s not sure what that will look like. She said to expect a major depressive episode when reality starts to set in. She also said this is not going to be a straight upward recovery... we need to expect a lot of ups and downs. SS seems fine. He agrees with the findings and said that describes him. I don’t think any reality has set in for him. Husband did not talk the whole way home and had some things to take care of tonight so I haven’t had a chance to talk to him yet. I am scared!!!! I am afraid of what the breaking point is going to look like. But I am also hopeful that this is something tnat we can work through. She does not like the term personality disorder and since he is 16 cannot be diagnosed with one anyway, but she is seeing more dependency characteristics and schoziod characteristics. Basically, he has to be ‘gently’ made to see his behaviors and the effects they are having on those around him. I don’t know??!! So many questions I have right now. And I’m not sure my husband can or will do what is needed to help SS. I just don’t know how our current situation is going to be able to give him the help he needs. Husband is still resisting inpatient/residential treatment. His official diagnosis is anxiety disorder/non specific.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Well Sumsky. That is alot. I am on cell now so my style is cramped.

It sounds like you will just have to keep on keeping on. Like you have been. There was the hope (fantasy??) That this could get easier.

I think you will be reassured when your husband comes home. The hardest thing I think is still protecting your daughter.

The break...is scary...but is not necessaily so. Now is the time to give him tools to handle what's coming. I believe in art therapy, drama therapy, somatic experiencing therapy (for trauma --i am doing it), yoga, meditation. Sports like swimming. Not team or competition. Now. All of these will give him a way to get put of his mind, express and better handle feelings and ground and center himself, apart from a rigid ego.

My parents and sister had personality disorders. Lol. They probably think I do too. Except for my dad they did very well in life. And none had the help of therapy young, and the understanding and support of family.
 

Sumsky

Active Member
Well Sumsky. That is alot. I am on cell now so my style is cramped.

It sounds like you will just have to keep on keeping on. Like you have been. There was the hope (fantasy??) That this could get easier.

I think you will be reassured when your husband comes home. The hardest thing I think is still protecting your daughter.

The break...is scary...but is not necessaily so. Now is the time to give him tools to handle what's coming. I believe in art therapy, drama therapy, somatic experiencing therapy (for trauma --i am doing it), yoga, meditation. Sports like swimming. Not team or competition. Now. All of these will give him a way to get put of his mind, express and better handle feelings and ground and center himself, apart from a rigid ego.

My parents and sister had personality disorders. Lol. They probably think I do too. Except for my dad they did very well in life. And none had the help of therapy young, and the understanding and support of family.
Thank you so much Copa!! I feel so torn. I feel like helping SS infuriates my daughter. She feels like I’m betraying her. But helping SS, helps us all. It’s such a mess but one day at a time.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
In the very long term helping stepson helps your daughter grow as a person. She is too young now too understand. Way too young brain-wise. But to go from hope, and family responsibility is the right thing. Even if we are incapable. Especially then.

I can't handle much of what I have had to face the last 7 it 8 years. But I've grown from it. You're protecting your daughter. You have a plan if you feel she is at risk. You are human so you are afraid.

Our relationships are tested. I fear I'll bail nearly every day. So far, it's all holding. But I fear this. I fear that I will leave. It just feels like it would be easier.

Even adults, old ones, want it all it be simpler. Of course your daughter does too. This boy, your stepson, counts too. I know you feel that. But it's hard. I know it. I feel for your husband too.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I think this is probsbly wrong. Ive been in the mental health system since age 23 and am now 65 and have seen myself and others often misdiagnosed. Sometimes it was/is severe. I dont think this mskes sense. And this is someone who doesnt believe in personality disorders, yet they exist.So she is denying tje ecistence of something that most experts think exsist.

I do think your daughter may deeply recent it if you try to help SS who abused her. We chose not to do so. Of course this is a very personal decision with no guarantees. It is a risk.

I hope it works out but I think it could go bad. This professional cant know for sure how this will evolve.

Psychiatry is an inexact science. There is no way to prove anything. Nothing. No blood tests. Just opinions. Please, please be wary of him and protect your kids first.

Love and light!!!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
And this is someone who doesnt believe in personality disorders, yet they exist.So she is denying tje ecistence of something that most experts think exist.
SWOT. I think the psychologist believes there is a personality disorder. But this cannot be diagnosed until adulthood. That is why the conduct disorder diagnosis exists, to be a placeholder until the diagnosis can be made. I think so.

But everything she is saying is consistent with personality disorder. It just sounds like she thinks it is not Anti-social Personality disorder; maybe she is thinking Schizoid Personality Disorder.

Sumsky will make her choices. She knows she can move out. She has already made that contingency plan a few months ago.

I for one do not believe this stepson should be sacrificed. I think he is ill. And he needs help. The decisions have to be made by the parents, if they want to keep the family unified or not. And by Sumsky about what serves her daughter. Separating the family units, or staying together. But what can Sumsky do? Can she realistically insist that stepson be hospitalized, or should she allow for a process to occur, as she has been doing? If stepson has a break, he could well be put in residential. But forcing it now? I don't know.

Sumsky's daughter is older than were your children. Her daughter can grow into understanding. She may not understand now, but there is a way of looking at this, and helping daughter understand, that can help daughter be a bigger person. Daughter is safe now. Stepson is not allowed near her.

Is daughter really served by "an eye for an eye?" Because that would be what it would be if the son had to be sacrificed. He did what he did, but the psychologist does not believe he acts with cunning and with malice. He did not do it as a predator, it seems the psychologist is saying.

Most of all, I believe Sumsky will know what to do to protect her daughter and to help her. Whether that is therapy, or separating the households, or something else, I believe Sumsky will know. She may decide to separate for now. But who are we to say? Each situation is unique.

But I understand that her husband (and Sumsky) want to support this boy. I think all of them are growing into a difficult situation that they fear may grow worse. But it may not. It sounds like stepson stepped up whether because of denial or ignorance, who knows.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
myself and others often misdiagnosed.
Yes.

It really sounds to me that the psychologist and therapists all approached stepson and the family with a great deal of thoughtfulness and care. They deliberated, and watched and considered...and took their time. I think they served everybody by this.
This professional cant know for sure how this will evolve.
Nobody can. I do not think there is an easy right answer here, where everybody is served, and nobody get hurts. I think Sumsky is doing a valiant job taking it one day at a time, and trying to balance out everybody's needs.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Oh I didnt say she should move out but I probably would have, which has nothing to do with her .

I know you have a soft spot for young boys Copa :) After all you raised one. I am more concerned with the girl and believe this SS is sexually deviant, dangerous and without empathy and wont get better. I am thinking antisocial personality disorder, not schizoid. But who know? Nobody. There is no way to verify any psychiatric diagnosis. And that is the problem of psychiatry. Its opinion.

I just hope all goes well. I do know my kids would have held it against me if I had tried to help the boy who hurt them sexually. This is a big possibility. A certainty? No. But a risk.

I would have fled Dodge with mybteo but do not at all judge Sumsky for trying to safe the family. Itbis unsure if this can happen.

I will pray very hard that this works out and that I am wrong. I love being erong when I have bad feelings about something.
 

Sumsky

Active Member
Having some time to look up dependent personality disorder and schozoid personality disorder... these are my thoughts. Both of these are fitting for SS at this very moment. And I mean this very moment. A month ago this didn’t fit AT ALL. It one little bit. Because he is in trouble. When he is in trouble, he clings to his dad and avoids socializing and sleeps a lot. BUT this does not fit him AT ALL normally. It also doesn’t explain the things he is doing to get in trouble. It also doesn’t explain his aggression. He testing shows ALOT of he liking to show himself in a positive light. A lot of lying basically although the lying is to paint a positive picture of himself...so I’m wondering, can he be putting on a mask with each new test for whatever the current situation is? Each test tends to show only what is happening right now.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Anyone can show a false self to a psychologist. Antisocials are known for it. All the professional has is what he sees. If somebody knows enough to act drpressed or like a victim or sorry, even if he feels no remorse, this is what the profesduonal has to go on. There is no way to prove a.person is being authentic, like a diabetes test.

The boy I talked about whom we adopted and who ultimately killed our dogs by strangling and molested our littles was so good at acting like a great kid tjat his long list of psychiatrists told of a great kid with low self esteem but who was just a real winner. Sever psychiatrists wrote this more or less. It is why we felt safe adopting an 11 year old. He came highly recommended by those who are supposed to know. Tons of people lie to mental health professionals to get a fesired response. I didnt like but still got different diagnosis. Its the profesdionals best guess. Thats it.

On top of that this kid, fooled a chain of foster parents before us who loved him, us too, because he knew how to fake kindness, empathy and love at age 11. He was very aware how to make adults love him. The kids were anotjan story. He admitted molesting younger kids from infants up since age five but not one foster parent caught on and he was so scary and threatenimg to his victims that the victims were terrified to tell anyone.

Has SS eber taken tje esteemef MMPI test? I took it twice. It id tje only psychiatric test I know of that can catch younlying. There are lie questions in it. My test csme out that I was telling the truth both times but obviously not eberyone does. I trust that long testbmore than sny other in psychiatry because it favtorsbin lying. Or

He was finally, sfter his deception was discivedis, diagnosed in the lock up rehab with Severe Reactive Attachment Disorder which means no attachment to people, no conscience and like an adult who is antisocial. Fooled a lot of therapists and regular people too. Antisocials are grrat actors.

Do I trust the Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) diagnosis? Maybe. Again there is no way to prove anything in psychiatry yet. The ever changing DSM is just a list of symptoms that change as psychiatry changes. But even if someone lists every symptom for, say, bipolar and gets the diagnosis. there is.no way to verify it. Maybe somebody knows the DSM symptoms and prefers them to an antisocial diagnosis so he so he uses them. Or plain lied.

Please be careful with your daughter. Personality disorders dont change with circumstance. They are hardwired into your brain and charactor.
Your SS is a smart boy, deceitful. Best not to trust him. Better to be safe than sorry always.

Love and light!
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I’m wondering, can he be putting on a mask with each new test for whatever the current situation is? Each test tends to show only what is happening right now.
I think many of us put on a mask unconsciously. We do that primarily to not feel pain, and to feel that we work as a person. That we can effect in our environment that which secures what we need, while not giving rise to anxiety or other bad feelings, as we do so.

We want to feel intact. We will do almost anything to do so. To say that we do that to manipulate, fool, fake-out, has truth--but we are the greatest fools. We manipulate in the main, ourselves, by our masks.
Because he is in trouble. When he is in trouble, he clings to his dad and avoids socializing and sleeps a lot. BUT this does not fit him AT ALL normally.
What the psychologist is telling you is that what you are seeing, during these regressive periods, is the cracking of the mask. His personality (or mask) is not working for him. He regresses and he withdraws.

I have experienced this very thing. I was one person before my mother died, and turned into another one. The mask I had had (unconscious) no longer worked. I stayed in bed. I did not want to work. I was very sad. Etc. When the rigid defenses we use are challenged by circumstances and environment or aging or crisis, the real us seeps through. It is called decompensation. Not only your stepson, suffers this. Many of us do in the course of our lives.

I want to add something anecdotal here. A week or so again I took one of those free personality tests you can find on the internet. This one was based upon the work of Reich on Personality Character structure. It came out that I had strongest results in Schizoid and Oral. I was appalled. In real life I am extremely attuned to others, socially appropriate and responsive, etc. I made my living at this very thing. But the reality is that when I am under great stress, I withdraw. When I am really pushed against the wall, I become dependent. Not unlike your stepson. In my prior life, which I used to think of as "me" I had lived a life that was extremely independent, out there, and outwardly successful. It had been a compensation; to some extent a "mask." I feel convinced. Should I move beyond this period of my life, I will have integrated warded off feelings of dependency, isolation and abandonment so that they experienced in a way that they can be met and I can be nurtured and authentic.

This would be the goal for your stepson too. He can be helped by therapy.

Now. The psychologist is saying another thing, too. The treatment itself will bring forth this decompensation, but hopefully in a way that is titrated, so that your stepson can integrate these feelings and thereby come to have a more flexible and functional personality, more in touch with his own real feelings, more in touch with reality and more resilient.
It also doesn’t explain the things he is doing to get in trouble. It also doesn’t explain his aggression.
To me it does. I think those are defenses against his feelings seeping out, inside of himself. Anger is the first defense. Anger (and its cousin aggression) is a screen emotion. It is a cover story. It covers inside oneself the real feelings which are terrifying. Typically that feeling can be a sense of dissolution of self. I have felt it. And I have felt the anger that seeks to bind it.

Think about it. These aggressive acts show him to himself to be in control. Powerful. They push out and away feelings of helplessness and impotence and powerlessness. That is probably why extremely troubled kids torture and kill animals.

Your decision here as I see it is whether you will look at the situation in terms of the family and preserving it or whether the perspective is focused on your daughter. What SWOT says has merit.

In the short-term it will be easier for your daughter to make a stand for her. It is just that I am unsure if this is in her long-term interests or in yours. I am hoping that she is in therapy, and that the family is in family therapy.
 
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Sumsky

Active Member
Copa, I understand what your saying and it does really make sense. It clarifies and fits. I can accept and work through this, if and when my husband gets on board. He is back to saying that he is tired of all of the appointments and counseling and he’s done doing it. He is also saying it’s time to bring SS back home and deal with it. And if anyone doesn’t like it they can leave. He hasn’t done that yet. But if he does, I will leave and be done!!! My daughter is fearful of SS coming home. And honestly, I can only handle the small doses right now. I am fearful of when the consequences start setting in. SS has always been buffered from full consequences. He doesn’t react well to losing privileges. How is he going to react to CYS forcing him to see some of this? Or a judge forcing him to see this? SS is getting pinched all around right now. Between school, home, legal, etc.... as much as I want this to work I am afraid of what SS is capable of even more than ever!!!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Please watch your daughter. She is the victim. To me that makes her the vulnerable important one. Not that SS doesnt matter but your daughter has seen an evil side of this boy that your daughter doesnt have and wont forget. Probably ever. Most people dont have this boy's ability to be evil sexually. The only thing maybe more evil is murder.

Yes, they can fool. All dangerous people can fool and are usually stars at it. They can and do put on a great act. My child is not so unusual. Sexual predators can never be trusted for certain.

If you husband makes you chose, I think you will do the right thing. It is the victim your daughter who needs first consideration. Shame on your husband for minimilizing her pain.

Please be wary and vigilant. This boy is probably trouble forever and a good fooler. If it happens he per chance changes she can decide at 18 if she wants to see him again but she sure shouldnt have to see him now. Or ever if she chooses not to.

Love and light!
 
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Sumsky

Active Member
Please watch your daughter. She is the victim. To me that makes her the vulnerable important one. Not that SS doesnt matter but your daughter has seen an evil side of this boy that your daughter doesnt have and wont forget. Probably eber. Most people dont have this boy's ability to be evil sexually. The only thing maybe more evil is murder.

Yes, they can fool. AllAdangerous people can fool. They can and do put on a great act. My child is not so unusual. Sexual preedators can never be trusted for certain.

If you husband makes you chose, I think you will do the right thing. It is the victim your daughter who needs first consideration. Shame on your husband for minimilizing her pain.

Please be wary and vigilant. This boy is probably trouble forever and a good fooler.

Love and light!
SWOT, I will be sure to not let the door hit me on the way out... cause that is EXACTLY what will happen if SS is brought back into our home!! There is no question!!!
 
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