Not sure what's next

[RN0441]

I remember someone saying that maybe some are afraid to succeed and then have expectations from not only themselves but loved ones. Laura I just see that you wrote that also but I had written this before I read it so will go ahead and post because I believe it.

That could make sense. It seemed that way for our son because we knew he could succeed at anything if he'd only stay sober.

No matter where they go, their problems follow until they commit to being sober.

Agree to put it in God's hands. He will control the outcome. Not any of us.

 

[BusynMember]

These adult kids desperately need serious therapy, sometimes a psychiatriast too, because they have no self esteem, motivation, plus individual other issues. Few get better just seeing a counselor (if they go) and others get counseling at a rehab but arent serious enough yet about changing. Counseling a bored client doesnt work.

I have been on this forum a long time. Few get their acts together without some third party help (not family). Be it a community of twelve step people or a resonating rehab with other people there to cheer them along...these people CAN help! What I cant remember is adult kids turning it around without likeminded third party encouragement. Or those not going to meetings living lazily at home. Many adult kids who find God in their journey also tend to do well. Some professed to be atheists at one time. Kathy's daughter, RN's son and Love My Son's now Marine son all made it after very rough rides.

But the parents didnt do it for their kids. There were many more success stories....quite a few before most of you came here. I may have forgotten, but I dont recall any who were at home trying to do it alone.

Its the same with mental health issues. The hospital patients when I was there got close and encouraged one another. It doesnt always work the first time, but I believe that for those who get better (not everyone will chose to) loving parents can be nice perks, but it is those peers and professionals who are going through it and/or have expertise who are the keys. And of course the adult kids themselves.

Not us. We are not living their experiences. We never have. We do not have the right training to help, plus its almost impossible to treat our own family members.

Often doctors wont
work on their own family.

Sometimes I think we think, myself included, think we know too much about how to 'help" our loved ones. Often we do everything wrong, myself included, because our love is too poweful for us to see the truth clearly.

We need to.purge ourselves of guilt and stop trying to fix our beloveds. Nobody is less capable of fixing a beloved than a family member. Our emotions cloud our vision and we get very confused about what to do. Usually its best to.do nothing but we cant bear it.

Be good to yourselves. An adult makes his own decisions to either carry on the hard way or get help. The older they get, the longer the bad patterns. But they are the ones who have to be the heroes of their own stories.

Hugs and luck to all.

 

[Copabanana]

Drug addiction is not primarily about frequency of use or continuous use. It is about the relationship of the drug to your life, and how your functioning is affected. You don't need to consume drugs every single day or even most days to be drug dependent or to abuse drugs. In the same way, recovery is not just stopping drugs for a day or two or even a week. Even people who go to prison or jail where there are few if any drugs, are not considered to be non-addicts because there was no choice, intention or responsibility taken to stop drugs. It is only their involuntary incarceration that has rendered unavailable the drugs. If you don't have money for drugs, so don't use for 3 days, it does not mean you've stopped. Stopping is another thing entirely. Your son has not stopped.

A relapse can only happen if there has been recovery. And recovery happens when somebody has been involved in treatment over a period of time, and participated in treatment and sought to recover. Recovery is not just not using drugs for a day or two. There has to have been intent to stop the substance, a commitment to stop, and a follow through on that over a continuous period.

A relapse happens only within the context of recovery. It is to resume drugs after or within an active recovery process. Your son seems to be not using for a day or so, and then when he uses drugs again, calling that a relapse. That is not a relapse. It is a continuous and ongoing pattern of drug use.

In the same way it is not correct to call the days you don't use drugs, as detox. A detox is the medical treatment of an addicted person which involves abstention, until the blood is free of toxins. Unless your son is going to a medical facility or physician who specializes in addiction, he is not detoxing. He is resting.

Abstention is to abstain. Abstaining involves the voluntary and deliberate non-use of a substance over a period of time. It is about intention.

From what I have read your son is not participating in treatment of any sort at this time. So by definition he cannot be relapsing and cannot be detoxing, at least as I understand it. While we can't know what is in his heart, he seems to not have the intention of abstaining from drugs. He is snowing you. He is using drugs when he wants. Period.
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[Tired out]

I really wonder about the pot/dopamine connection the more reading I do the more the connection of a delusion they think is real due to the chemical reaction.

The above is from Tired's signature. I am wondering if this may be part of my son's body dysmorphic disorder and/or the conspiracy theories. Both began after the heavy mj use started. He had already suffered the brain injury. But had not began the mj. Neither the preoccupation with his appearance (very handsome, but he thinks he's disfigured), nor the conspiracy theories began after the Traumatic Brain Injury (Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)). They began after the heavy mj use.

But what can I do? I just googled to see if there are links. Yes. To both. Related to brain chemistry. There's a link between mj use and delusions such as conspiracy theories and there is a link between BDD and brain chemistry, but due to serotonin, not dopamine. Apparently there is research showing dramatic cure by use of magic mushrooms.

Here is one of the easiest to understand. Copa, Sound like J?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...a-use-may-reduce-your-brains-dopamine-release
I do too much reading in medical journals and research studies (I tend to revert to my background when looking for answers and I was a research and development chemist)

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, wow, that explained it so well.

Even a month clean is too soon, not long enough.

My daughter was clean over a year before we crossed our fingers. Not using for a short while is not being out of the woods.

I agree that intention is everything. If you dont use for three days but also dont seek long term help to keep it up, that is very weak intention.

I cant explain it but you will recognize a change in mindset and true intention. The person changes tremendously. Hard to draw a picture.

You just can not throw a party because a person says he is clean for a week but is doing nothing to support sobriety. That isnt a long time and he is not doing anything to find the support and strength to really sustain total abstience.

Love and light!

 

[Copabanana]

I do too much reading in medical journals and research studies

Well. I read the article Tired. And then I looked for a dopamine connection with Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Bingo. And then I looked at a Dopamine Connection with Conspiracy Theories: Bingo. BDD is related to low dopamine. Conspiracy Theories to higher. This makes sense to me. MJ temporarily boosts Dopamine, but discourages and suppresses the body's natural production.

It also makes sense to me that with my son's history of Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), it makes this all worse.

I could take heart that I was right to not subsidize the marijuana. But I don't. I feel frustrated because I am left still in the same spot. What do I do? I could try to talk to him and provide citations of studies about the BDD and mj, at some point. I guess.

 

[Tired out]

I feel frustrated because I am left still in the same spot. What do I do? I could try to talk to him and provide citations of studies about the BDD and mj, at some point. I guess.

It is hard. He is smart. Will he listen? Pot (like most things) does some good, some bad. But with a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) (I think) the bad out weighs the good. It has side effects that make other things worse.

 

[BusynMember]

I personally dont think he wants to hear or will listen. You are in the world of academia and value studies. He isnt. Im not. He may be leery of anything that IS mainstream....

I value consistent scientific studies that are so final that everyone agrees. But everyone has to agree for me to buy it. Other than that, not so much.

He may be like me. Or he just may not fear these things you bring to his attention. I WOULD fear them, but I would also value saving my liver/life.i would take my medications. This has been proven to my satisfaction and I would take care of it. Your son seems not to care or believe.

J is not us. He may just think you are being a hysterical mother. Or he may not worry about the next day. He feels good today so it doesnt affect him. He seems wedded to pot, not open to stoppimg it. He is not alone :/

You can tell him anything you want. Has it ever worked? Still, you can try!!!

Lots of hugs!

 

[RN0441]

The funny thing is I think most of these young adults are SMART. Smarter than your average bear!!

My son was tested in high school for Special Education (it was suggested by his youth probation officer at that time) and was found to have an above average IQ, no way did he qualify for Special Education they said!

He is also the most caring and sensitive by far of our three boys. Go figure.

I think sometimes that is why he turned to drugs. To turn it all off. I dunno.

 

[Beta]

So sorry to hear this latest setback Laura. Elsi said in a post above: "I find this kind of let down excruciating. When they are off track and I know they are off track, I can manage my expectations and stay centered. But when I have reason to hope for real change, and have those hopes dashed...that's hard." That's hit the nail on the head for many of us.

 

[Molly60]

I just had a revelation. Going through a mental timeline of when my son started "relapsing/using again" I realized that just a day or two before that my husband had expressed to my son that he had changed for the better...more alert, more energetic (not in the way uppers act), more "alive" more positive, more upbeat, more pleasant, great sense of humor, I then recalled that growing up, every time I praised my son for some positive behavior, in no time he would stop doing that behavior. Is that a thing? Where someone stops doing Behavior X because someone else praised them for it? Wonder what the psychology behind that would be?

My son does the same. When he has a good time doing decent things or is praised for something he sabotages himself by doing something inappropriate