Parents turned on me after I finally kicked out 19yo son

[witzend]

Excellent advice from Cedar. This Christmas will be difficult because they have turned you away. Believe me, I know. Perhaps in time they will come to understand that they have been played by him just as you were. My parents never stopped blaming my parenting on my kids' triangulation skills. Other grandparents do. It's a terrible time of year to indulge in healthy self-reflection because everyone has unrealistic expectations of Christmas. Your son and your parents are playing that out before your eyes at this very moment.

My advice is that you don't think too hard on it right now. The longest journey starts with a single step. It's best to not expect to get there in a day. You'll be less disappointed if you take it one step at a time.

FWIW, husband and I are 2,800 miles from any of our family by choice, I'm cooking a giant turkey dinner for the two of us tonight, and I couldn't care less about the drama going on at the other edge of the country. I'm not disappointed, I'm not full of anticipation or dread, so I win! on the other hand I had at least 10 lousy Christmases before I got here. There will be other lousy times, too, but trouble waits. I face it when it comes.

Do something nice for yourself, and try to not drop-kick the manger. But if you do, Miss Star will adopt the donkey!

 

[BackintheSaddle]

Thank you all so much....it's nice to find people who understand-- my friends don't get it either (though they are there for me)...it's hard to believe that charming kid is as mean as I tell people but I know what's true...I got up and planned my day to bake and listen to Christmas music and really felt empowered by what you all told me-- it is hard not to second guess myself particularly since my parents are on 'his side' but I know my son better than anyone and you're all right, he won't be able to hold it together very long- I've seen that he's deteriorating...I just hope he doesn't hurt himself or someone else in the process of hitting bottom...he text me to come get some stuff today (he didn't even get clothes when he left) so we let him come...put a cramp in my day of cooking and got me and my husband all nervous...we left for him to come and now maybe we won't have to deal with him for awhile...

I did decide that I have to give him something for Christmas...it's a holiday that I usually go overboard for and he knows it...I'm not going to give him money as planned but filling up a stocking of things he needs (cologne, etc) and giving him the gift my husband got him (tools)...I have a small gift for his girlfriend and each of my parents that I'm going to give them too...I plan to pack it all up in a box and drop it at their doorstep late tonight so it's there in the morning...I can't not give him something and live with myself...it's just a part of 'me' that I want to keep in that Christmas is a special time, a time for love and family, and I can't not let him know I do love him in spite of everything

Thanks for understanding...going to go do some baking now!...;-)

 

[recoveringenabler]

Well said Cedar.

JakesMom, I hope your day is a good one. CHOOSE to be happy today...........you can open the door for more suffering on Thursday..........(or not) ............................., but right now, everyone is safe and you are baking and listening to Christmas music..........enjoy the day.................

 

[pasajes4]

It is difficult. I look for the joy in every day that I am given. I look for even the smallest positives I can find in my difficult child. It is the only way that I can get through the day. Give him his gifts and let him know you love him. Right now I doubt that he loves himself.

 

[helpangel]

Hi Jakesmom just want you to know thinking of you today and hoping you & husband can manage to have a peaceful holiday. It's hard when have a family member with unstable/untreated mood disorder, unstable doesn't take the day off for any holiday.

The fact he is still able to convince others that you are the one with the problem tells me he isn't so far down the drain, that he can't pull it together when he needs to. I don't think you need to worry about getting him admitted somewhere right now as in today.

Everything negative you say to him or about him will probably come back to bite you at some point (at least has with me) and any contact with your parents rather then "feed" this conflict you might want to simply state that you love him, are concerned for his welfare but with him this angry with you you aren't safe sleeping under the same roof with him. They still probably won't get it but you don't come off sounding like threw him out on a whim but had genuine concerns.

I keep thinking about you because your son sounds so much like the way my girls were before we found the right medications for them. Do not underestimate this illness or put safety on hold for a holiday. The anger your son is feeling right now is toxic and if keep interacting with him it's not helping him stabilize and eventually he will explode. I really think it might be best for everyone to stay in neutral corners until things calm down.

I'm glad your husband is there to help you and also your parents could give him a safe place, neither of which were options I had when going thru this - if it wasn't for the people on this site I doubt I would have made it because they were all I had.

Nancy

 

[1905]

You could be describing my situation exactly, that was 8 or 9 years ago. you need to have really, thick rhino skin to deal with him and the family members. Your son is mad as heck right now, ignore that. It will soon sink into his head that now he has to provide for himsel and by treating you this way....he will get nothing from you. Nothing. He doesn't see that yet, he is trying to bully you but don't take the bait. Stand strong, this is actually helping him, yorsu parents don't see this, but we do here on this board. You are doing a good job.
Listen, this may go on for a few years. But, as in my situation and others, he will get his life together and come back to you. The hard part is now. We didn't give gifts when our son was calling us names and out like yours, but we had a restraining order anyway. Our relatives thought we were THE WORST people in all the land, they still think it. But, you don't want a 30 year old or 50 year old living on your couch do you? My sister in law's brother is in 50's and still lives home with his mommy and she coddles him ...it's so weird...yet they think we were mean to our son all those years ago. Our son thanks us now for doing that and so wills yours. Hold on. Hugs.

 

[BackintheSaddle]

Well, I'm glad Christmas is almost behind me! We went to church last night for the candlelight service and I sobbed all the way through it...it's just so sad to see my son making the choices he is...but I did have my patient husband beside me...it's hard to share with him because he's Jacob's adoptive father and it seems like he's washed his hands of him...I can't blame him really but everytime I get sad, he starts reminding me about all the horrible things Jacob has done...good for me to hear but that's about all that comes out of his mouth about our son...I had packed a box of gifts and left them on the front door at my parent's house...then at about 10:45pm, our son pulled up the driveway, got out of the car (I was already outside letting the dogs potty) and walked up with gifts for us...handed them to us and said 'merry Christmas', got back in the car and left....he and I texted for awhile after and it seemed so nice for awhile-- he was asking me what all this means for our relationship (like I know!)...what does it mean? my husband won't allow him at the house and I can't imagine not seeing him at all but many of you have made that choice...but then brought up how what he did (grabbing me) wasn't as bad as things we've done...not even part of reality and the anger started coming thru...made me resolve my guilt pretty fast though!....I've been touch and go today, trying not to think about him...I hope this gets easier with time

so, many of you have advised to cut him off financially...we were helping him with college and he did pretty good (3Bs, 1 C), he's also had the same job for a year now...these 'successes' are why I second guess myself ALL THE TIME...I fluctuate between still helping him with some of his bills and cutting him off I'm the primary money earner for a while in our family)...nothing has changed, he's still saying horrible things about me, claiming I'm the one to blame for all this...I have to figure out what I'm willing to do (or not) for him...any advice?

 

[helpangel]

It use to amaze me when dealing with Angel during her unstable years how I was the victim but in her mind would turn it all into my fault. She would look at me with that snarky look and declare "YOU BROKE MY MIRROR" when the reality was I spent 3 1/2 weeks in a neck brace because she swung her body weight from my hair then slammed me into her mirror. I didn't brake her mirror the back of my head did when she tried to put it thru the #%@!!! mirror!

It sounds to me like your son is pulling the same nonsense on you, no matter how he candy coats it him grabbing you like that was assault and he has repeatedly disrespected you in person and online. Your husband I can't imagine how he feels... a lot of men would have beat him silly by now; but you love your kid and would have problem ever forgiving husband if he did try to whoop some sense into him... not much choice but try to stay out of it, but how do you support SO yet stay out of something that has consumed so much of their existence?

I never had money to give them in the first place so "cutting them off" never applied to me, but can imagine if I did have money to help a kid financially I would continue to do so but would add some strings attached to it. Example base amount of money (minimum needed to squeak by), every time disrespect me I subtract X amount, do something nice or speak well of me - anything that brings me joy or happiness I'll throw in a little extra.

With Angel having Asperger's in addition to the bipolar I would have to be very clear cut on the specifics of the deal (she's very black/white thinking about stuff like this). She never responded well to rules it was more I had to reward the behaviors I liked and ignore the ones I didn't.

I'm not sure how to advise you except try to separate the way you feel about him the person from the behaviors. You love him but these behaviors you gotta hate and he shouldn't feel like you are rewarding those horrible behaviors. Sorry this got so long... Nancy

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

What we have to learn to do when we have troubled adult kids is so hard because they do love us, just as we love them. If there were hatred on either side, this would be easy. In our love for them, in our hope that this was all somehow a nasty mistake, or an error of some kind, or some parental oversight that can be corrected now, we begin to excuse and then, allow, our children to mistreat us. This is all you are calling a stop to now, JM.

Your son's mistreatment of you, your husband, your home, your family.

It's very clear, once we can see it that way.

Scott G posted awhile back that he had been able to admit to himself the truth of what was happening, the truth of who his son was choosing to be, and then, to let go of judgment. He stopped judging his son for where he was or what he was doing. Because he stopped judging him, he stopped trying to change him. He just learned to accept him. But in learning those things, Scott G was also able to free himself from feeling responsible for his son's behavior. Once he got that piece, Scott G was able to be very clear, in his own mind and heart, that he wasn't going to put up with any baloney from this son whose behavior he was not responsible for and could not control, anyway. I don't recall the title of that post. It all sounds so complex, but those are the steps we all need to go through to get to that place of clarity about how we accept inappropriate behavior from our adult children.

I don't know whether I am explaining it very well. The thing of it is that continuing to pay tuition for a child who is doing well in school has nothing to do with whether you are speaking to or housing that child. Bringing Christmas gifts because you love someone and want them to feel that you love them is a wonderful thing. It doesn't mean you have to put up with inappropriate behavior.

There is that old saying about how we teach people how to treat us. It is true for our kids, too.

All this son has to do to turn things around is behave appropriately. He is choosing not to. If you allow it, this is the behavior that will continue. If you want something better for your relationship with your son, then you need to hold the image of the relationship you want in your heart and accept nothing less.

It will not feel right, at first, to do this. It will not be easy to say what needs to be said. But what you are feeling now isn't easy, either.

So I say, pay the tuition. Do all the things that you feel you would like to do for him. But no compromise on the nature of the personal relationship you expect with this son you love. You can always change your mind on anything in the future. The idea is not to punish him or to make it impossible to finish school, but to refuse to be held hostage to someone who treats you badly because you love him.

That bad treatment is what needs to change.

I am happy he brought the Christmas presents for you. He is probably as surprised by this change in your behavior as you are. Don't step down. You are working to create something good and right.

:O)

Keep posting. Each time one of us answers, he or she is clarifying her own beliefs regarding her own child through her answer to you.

I am going through something similar with my own son. Only I didn't stand up for the relationship and require respect from him until he was in his late thirties. You will need to do this one day, anyway. No one can respect himself, if he doesn't respect his mother. Both of us need to do this for our sons as much as for ourselves.

Cedar

 

[BackintheSaddle]

Hello again- I've been reading and reading about all different kinds of things people have done in this situation...I started out at this site because i've been convinced that if he doesn't have 'bipolar' (which hasn't been confirmed by his MD because he masks things so well in his 15 minutes with him) then he must have ODD...he's like a text book case of ODD but he is also so not aware of his issues-- that there is something wrong with him, not having friends, blaming everyone for his problems, his constant anger and belittling of others isn't a good way to live life...I've noticed by most of your signatures that you are all dealing with so much...bipolar plus other things (he's ADHD too)...or worse...my heart goes out to you...you are being so kind to help me out when you've all had less than ideal holidays...do any of you know about anosognosia? lack of insight? about half the people with bipolar have it and it seems like part of Jake's problem...he definitely thinks nothing is wrong with him and it's all me...you all talk about how your difficult child doesn't think they have problems and blame you...what do you think of the LEAP idea? (can't insert link but it's an approach with people who lack insight)

 

[recoveringenabler]

JakesMom, being there for you helps us too.

Many of our kids lack insight. I am not familiar with the LEAP idea. Perhaps you might explain it a little.

One thing I have learned which may be helpful is that regardless of what our kids diagnosis is, regardless of how much insight they have or don't have, really, regardless of anything, WE must first take care of ourselves by setting strong boundaries around bad behavior from ANYONE, especially our own kids. As we do that, as we get really good at saying no, not saving them, giving them the reigns, letting go of control.............they either improve or they don't, but our lives get healthier. Much of what has to happen is we have to take the focus off of them and put it on ourselves and as we do that, quite a bit of what needs to happen evolves naturally without the panic and fear.

In helping him with college, it seems he is a good student and holds a job too...........he is still young, I might continue to pay for his education but begin limiting other help. You have successfully stopped the bad treatment of you which seems to have some positive results. Don't let him be disrespectful of you for any reason.................you can re-train him to treat you better and it appears as if you are doing a good job of that. There have to be consequences to bad behavior, that is REAL LIFE. A good guideline for me about enabling versus loving kindness is loving kindness feels good and enabling feels bad, resentment is present in enabling, anger, disappointment, usually an array of negative feelings. When we give in healthy ways, it feels positive.

You're doing well, it's a process of making different choices as we move ahead. You're doing all the appropriate things and you're thinking everything through thoroughly.

 

[BackintheSaddle]

if you haven't heard of this-== anosognosia-- you might want to check this out...I watched Dr. Amador's presentation at a conference on video and it makes a lot of sense...it only applies to those with delusions/psychosis...but I suspect some of your difficult child have experienced that issue--my bipolar son certainly has
http://www.leapinstitute.org/

also, found a therapist difficult children MD recommended (given the ODD issues) and going in the morning...looking forward to having someone to talk to about recent events and try and gain some perspective on how to move forward in as healthy a way as possible (as in, loving not enabling)....having a better day today...thanks all, hope having Christmas behind us all is helping relieve some pressure!

 

[BusynMember]

Are you talking about "mind blindness?"

in my opinion when your son grabbed you, being as tall and big as he is and threatening you, that was domestic abuse. No matter what mental illness he has, it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY to take control of his illness...to take his medication without indulging in drinking and recreational drugs that will stop the good effects of his medication, go to therapy and work his tail off (it is hard to do good therapy) and learn coping skills that will help him not become violent. He has no right to touch you without your permission. If he did that to somebody else, they could call the cops and he could get pulled in.

I have a mood disorder that they call Mood Disorder not otherwise specified. It isn't exactly bipolar because I get very definite depression but have only had a few episodes of hypomania, which I enjoyed very much (to anyone who has had mania...I'm grinning with you). Those epiosdes however were not psychotic and did nobody any harm and I didn't even recognize them as being hypomanic. I just knew I'd snapped instantly from depression into "feel good." I still need to take my medication, and at age sixty I am still working hard in therapy because you can slip up. This is a lifelong challenge and if I had depended upon my parents to help me, I'd have been screwed long ago since my mom died a long time ago. This is his path to walk. You can't do it for him.

by the way, you didn't MAKE him do anything. None of us have the ability to make another person do something. We can say something that they may not like, and how they handle that is their own decision. Your son made a decision to put his hands on you. I suspect he has done this before.

A thirty day inpatient program won't do much. I've been in hospitals three times...good ones. They are mainly for stabilization. When I went in the first time, I was pregnant and stayed ten weeks. Now you are lucky if you are allowed to stay for ten days or at all unless you are actively suicidal or homicidal.

It's your son who needs the fixing, not you, as far as his issues go. However, you have to decide how to handle his issues. That's where I feel Al-Anon has good advice, even if your son isn't using drugs or drinking that you know of. I also think NAMI is good. Most of all, I think a good therapist for you and only for you would help you navigate through this journey and help you deal with family members not understanding and maybe being unkind to you.

ODD is not really a diagnosis your son is likely to get at his age. Once they are over eighteen it becomes an issue of whether or not he has a conscience and cares about right or wrong. Usually our mentally ill adult child (and any mentally ill adult such as myself) have more than one issue going on and the only way for us to get better is for us to be WANT to get better, to comply with treatment and to work our tails off to overcome our challenges. The onus is 100% on the patient. Think of it like this...if a patient is diagnosed with cancer and refuses chemo, what happens? Who has to decide to get treatment? Who has to decide to do everything the doctors say? Who makes decisions when one is ill?

Mental illness is a brain disorder. It is genetic and a physical problem. Only the patient can do what is needed to make himself well. Your son is on his own, as anyone with mental illness is. Oh, you can give him support but only HE can decide, "I don't want to be this way and I'm going to do all I can to change things." And until he has that lightbulb moment, he will remain ill.

Hugs. I'm so sorry.

 

[witzend]

Well, if he's able to maintain grades and you're able to afford tuition, I would find it difficult to not pay the tuition so long as he is doing well in school. But given the escalating threats of violence he would have to leave my home.

Will the school help find him somewhere to live next term?