Relationship Patterns / Dysfunctional FOO Issues

[Copabanana]

Thank you New Leaf. That was beautiful. It was as if I heard the song for the first time.

COPA

 

[New Leaf]

I keep playing it over and over again.
The video,
the imagery,
it is astonishing to me.
How it fits.

 

[New Leaf]

And then there is Roger Daltry with his lion like mane......

Good day to you all,
I am cleansing-
self,
house, car,

 

[Copabanana]

Fanny and Alexander (1982)
"Fanny och Alexander" (original title)
R | 188 min | Drama | 17 December 1982 (Sweden)
8.1

Two young Swedish children experience the many comedies and tragedies of their family, the Ekdahls.

Director:
Ingmar Bergman
Writer:
Ingmar Bergman

This was the movie I referenced.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

This and a million other things makes me sure that if ever confronted with true evil, I will not go quietly.

The thing is it is not always clear how to distinguish

Yes.

That's it exactly, Copa. That is what I mean when I say I never see the wrongness. Once I see it, I have no ~ there is nothing else to be done but say so, but move on it. I have no problem with that part. But until I see it, I just don't see it. That is why I keep stumbling and stumbling over the situation ~ the myriad, multi-level, twisty swirly (to coin a phrase from Leafy) situation still so vitally live at the core of my family of origin to this day

I am surprised by its ugliness; am so surprised at the ugliness of what had to happen, of the roles both parent and child would have taken on and believed before a child could be treated as we were treated.

It leaves me gasping for breath.

Here is something interesting: And...I have allergies and asthma. I must be very aware of what I eat, of what I take in.

The children who we remember did not exist as we see and feel them now. While they could have under other circumstances, they could not have existed in the families in which we lived. We have nurtured them together, giving them that chance to thrive which they denied themselves, in order to survive.

I love this.

Yes. True, Copa.

Or is it your vision of what a relationship is? Is constancy not part of it?

It never occurred to me that he would stay, Copa.

This addresses core issues beautifully. I will do work here.

Thank you, Copa.

Or what was it about you that made you unworthy of his constancy, in your own mind?

It never even occurred to me, Copa. I am so surprised we are still married.

There would be nothing that would make me unworthy. Nothing that would make me worthy. It was all about how everything looked; it was about doing what you were supposed to do. My mother was so nasty about my father behind his back and later, when his hearing went, right in front of him. And I thought that was normal. In my family of origin, that kind of contemptuous behavior is normal. D H and I were talking about that last night. What rears its head again in what we expect from the men we chose as mates. In the way I was seeing my children and myself when they were not perfect. In every aspect of self, beginning with me; beginning with perfection and the underlying truth of forever not perfect.

That contempt feeling rolls off my mother to this day. Not only to me, to everyone. When the man wanted to marry her, she behaved the same way toward and about him. He was very confused, as it all progressed.

***

Shunning ~ the capacity to intend that, and to carry it out over time, fits in here somewhere. Racism, and the story of Joseph and enslavement and self recovery fit, here.

I have to go wash the car. I will be complaining strenuously. I made the pie. Pumpkin. (We are having people for dinner.)

D H was like, "I'll vacuum the carport. And you don't need to wash the car." I told him it was an integrity issue.

Oh, roar.

Integrity does not come cheap.

I think it must have catapulted me back to a pre-verbal state, where I did not have even the language to express my feelings or tell myself that I even existed apart from the person who cared for me, my Mother.

Yes.

A pre-verbal state. They say we arrive trailing clouds of glory. The shock would have been recognizing where we were. (Which is what each of us is doing, now. Every one of us so surprised at how ugly it was; at just how ugly they were in their hearts and in what they wanted and in how they need it to be. In how cruel and self-serving our families of origin are, even when we have come through mortal danger.) Joel Osteen told the story of Helen of Troy, today. Kidnapped and amnesiac in a strange land; turned whore and then, thrown into the streets.

There is that whore analogy, again. The feel of the sun; the bath water spilling over, turning the dust into mud.

That neon sign, blinking and buzzing.

The beautiful, self possessed whore, loving every inch of herself; washing her feet. (I wish I could have Sleeping Beauty's kiss imagery instead of beautiful whore imagery, Copa.)

Drat.

Back to Helen.

Confused and bereft, she believed herself to be what they told her...but it was a lie. According to the story Joel Osteen told this morning, Helen was not able to remember anything about herself or her past or how she got where she was. It took someone else, someone who recognized the lines in her palms, to remember for her that she was never who they told her she was. Poorly used, thrown into the street, living hand to mouth or not, she was Helen of Troy.

And there was the proof of it, in the lines in her palms.

So, Helen thinks a minute. Then she says, "Oh, that's right. I remember now, thank you." And she stood up, squared her shoulders, and went back to Troy.

She had forgotten who she was.

Goodness is the key. Were we able to see our goodness? I never felt, good enough.

You know, it was like a crazy circle. Like awe/patronization makes a circle. Superior/inferior makes a circle, too. When we are caught in that trap nothing is real but ego. The thing is that most of the time, it works. I see these kinds of circles all the time in other people too though, so I think that in this too, it is a matter of rigidity vs flexibility. If there is room, then we need not judge. We can stay present, and be in ourselves, and maintain internal locus of control. I listened to something on the history of the gay rights movement, on Book TV this morning. It had me remembering when we were talking about racism and Jacob having been sold into slavery and shunning.

Everyone has to fight, to be free. In listening to this morning's presentation, I think I understand the hardest part of the battle to be claiming the right to demand freedom and accept nothing less and believe. They were discussing the beliefs about homosexality as mental illness. Back in the forties and fifties, this was. The depth of the shame of it, when you'd been raised in a certain way and the homosexual in question turned out to be you. No reflections of courage, or even of sanity, when you were gay back then. It is interesting to note that the "illness" was supposed to stem from inappropriate attachment and identification with the mother.

Remember the discussion in which we touched on misogyny.

That fits, here.

I know this is ego centric of me, but the way it was or is for gay people, that is how it is for us, too. In our isolation, in the shame of those namings and assumptions and with no way to question them or even, to know questioning was possible, we are Helen.

Or Sleeping Beauty.

And yet, the gay people have done it.

Maybe, this form of self reclamation we practice, here on the site, works for us because we see one another differently than each of us is able to see him or herself. (There could be men reading along. If there are, please feel welcome to post in. The issues are the same ones, for each of us. You are welcome, here.)

We will need to think about Jacob again and racism, I think. Racism in the sense of prejudice against; in the feeling of rightness about that mindset. In the feelings of rightness in every prejudicial mindset.

That is what we must abolish to free ourselves from it.

We are prejudiced against ourselves.

We are Helen, kidnapped and amnesiac.

I did the carport. I did not do the car. I have had skin cancer, and the sun was very hot, out on the driveway where the car was. So I left the car for tomorrow but I think my integrity is still intact. I am just so into integrity where I can spot a place where I am trying to weasel out of something I said I would do when I don't really want to actually do it, when the time comes.

It's like I'm not being slovenly.

I heard someone describing integrity as the opposite of slovenly this morning.

Ahem.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

I have decided to approach M like an anthropologist. I will study his behaviors and ceremonies and his language. To learn it as if it is the key to my deepest missing knowledge.

To begin with I decided I must be present. Gazing intently into his eyes, sitting facing him. And listening without expectation.

He has been ill two days: diarrhea nausea muscle pain all over.

He told me that he believes his father is not permitting his mother to speak to the children, so as to not complain about how he is treating her. That she is a prisoner in the house, of him. He also told me that his sister (the one I like) has been talking to M's estranged wife when she goes to Mexico, gossiping to her about him and us. He does not believe her intent is malicious but more foolishness and not understanding the damage she can do.

He is afraid of her helping me because he fears that she will gossip about him and us to me, and that it will injure me and how I think about him.

Already I am learning things.

COPA

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I have decided to approach M like an anthropologist. I will study his behaviors and ceremonies and his language. To learn it as if it is the key to my deepest missing knowledge.

To begin with I decided I must be present. Gazing intently into his eyes, sitting facing him. And listening without expectation.

You require honesty from M because you are requiring honesty of yourself, to yourself.

M has clarification to do.

He is afraid of her helping me because he fears that she will gossip about him and us to me, and that it will injure me and how I think about him.

Already I am learning things.

You are.

It is better to know.

Please remember what I said about our relationships changing as we change, and being what we needed when that was what we needed.

Nothing has to happen, right now.

I see in this that the sister cares for you. What I do not like is that when the sister came back, M implied you should wait for her to call you.

That is gaslighting.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

You require honesty from M because you are requiring honesty of yourself, to yourself.

M has clarification to do

What I do not know (among the many things) is how to broach this to him without antagonizing him.

I brought up today: I need the help of your sister and niece. Not only do I want to organize the house but I want to sell what I bought and we do not need.

I think my security and your security and our safety is not threatened by anybody outside of us, our safety can only come from us. We create it. And we threaten it too, by what we lack or fear or do not protect.

I agree, he said. I am saying: Ask her for help but keep something guarded always, a piece private in you.

My sisters do not mean to hurt. They want to play a part. It is as if a drama that you are telling and they want a role, too.

You mean like to be director or an actress or to rewrite a little bit of the story to make it more dramatic? Yes. That is exactly what I mean.

I have come to two decisions.

First, I will try as hard as I can to work on myself to do and be what I need. And to work at befriending and studying M, so as to deepen our connection and to know him better.

Second, I will try to stay present. I am in a perfect position. I am not legally married and I do not need to be. I have a way to support myself and to make my life worthwhile and meaningful.

I am getting strong enough to feel and know that I do not need anybody to survive. I never did before, and I am almost to the point where I can see that I will be OK now.

Cedar, when you told me the other day something like not to abandon myself, I realized I had me, if I just chose to.

That puts me in the driver's seat to take the risk to push the envelope with M to not fear learning what I need to, and accepting what I learn. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

What I do not like is that when the sister came back, M implied you should wait for her to call you.

This is very interesting. Is it gaslighting? What he said was let her get settled with her responsibilities and she will call you. Was it that he was protecting himself, fearing that if she and I grow closer, he would be threatened?

That is gaslighting.

M would rather see weakness in me than in himself. I guess this is gaslighting.

I see in this that the sister cares for you.

M said that his daughter told him that his sister went to talk to her mother, his estranged wife, whom he separated from 11 or 12 years ago. M's sister told her that M would never return to Mexico because he was happy with me.

M's sister is clear about that to me, too, that M has told her that he does not want to leave me, that he is committed, that I need him and he needs me.

The time has come to step up to the plate: to go further. To ask more of myself and of him, to see what we are capable of together. I am strong enough now to take the risk to know him better, and myself too.

For too long I have needed him. I am free to decide if I want him. That is an entirely different question.

COPA

 

[Feeling Sad]

You have grown so much Copa! What a strong and capable position to find yourself in. No...not 'find'. It lacks effort. You evolved and worked to be in this position. I am proud of you!

New perspectives, both physically and mentally. Wow. Chicken or the egg???

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

That puts me in the driver's seat to take the risk to push the envelope with M to not fear learning what I need to, and accepting what I learn. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

It is amazing to feel this way, and to realize how frightened we have been, all of our lives. I feel defiantly happy that this is so for you (and for me ~ and for Serenity, as regards her FOO).

For too long I have needed him. I am free to decide if I want him. That is an entirely different question.

I decided I did want D H. Very, very much. In retrospect, it seems that we knew exactly what we were doing, after all. Just as we did, coming here. Just as we do, posting to the depth and degree that we do, trusting that somehow, it won't backfire; believing we are meant to be whole, to heal.

For all of us, not only for the three who began it, this is true.

Cedar

I have a dentist appointment this morning and Tai Chi this afternoon. I may not be back on until tomorrow. Very proud and happy for you, Copa. I am going to try to find something from Serenity too, to see how she is faring.

See you tomorrow everybody. We are doing good, good work.

 

[BusynMember]

Hi there. Today I can finally type a little. Cast was taken off.

Cedar, thank you for caring and I'm doing really well. Healing faster than expected and not putting too much thought into FOO. I know who and what they are and suddenly they seem irrelevant to me. I am grateful I survived and have good peeps in my life who do not assign roles to family members. I am myself.

Hugs to you, Copa, everyone.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Oh, how nice to see you, Serenity!




Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

Thank you, friend. So good to be able to use both hands to keyboard