Should I step in or back off...

[DDD]

You and husband have to make the choice and live with consequences...
with detached caring. I'm not weighing in on this one because,
frankly, I'm not sure if my opinion is right or not. The one
thing I am sure of is that you and husband have to be on the same page
and then stay united. Good luck. DDD

 

[DammitJanet]

I can understand not wanting to do constant movie nights with mom and dad but....there are other constructive things an 18 year old can be doing other than hanging out with his home boys.

He can get a job, volunteer some place, look online for activities in the area that would interest him, join a club, join a fitness center, join the service, join the peace corps, help habitat for humanity, ....in other words....DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!!!!

I have learned time and time again that idle hands lead to major problems.

 

[CAmom]

Suz, yeah...I get it. You're right. Well, we did talk last night about curfew and that 1:00 or 2:00 pm was much too late. He didn't argue and was in by 12:00 pm on the dot.

The money was tricky because he was given a checking account and debit card while in the group home and earned the money himself which we transferred into a checking account with our bank. The rest of the money he had was from his birthday last year which was a couple of days before he was ordered into placement. I guess we felt that, since it was his money from earnings and gifts, it was his to do with as he chose. I have been tracking his account online, and so far, his purchases have basically been clothing items. He's also eating lunch and dinner out, so a lot is going there.

As for work, we're planning a family meeting this evening to talk about him starting work. I was a bit surprised about how compliant he was with the earlier curfew, and I'm hoping he'll be as agreeable with beginning work on Monday, which is what we're asking.

You're right, we did have it backwards...

 

[CAmom]

Meow and Suz,

You make good points. The therapist who's following his transition advised us to give him space and wipe the slate clean. Maybe we're taking that too far...

 

[CAmom]

MM and everyone, I can totally see your points, based on my son's history.

It seems that everything happened so fast--he graduated from high school one morning, was released from the program immediately afterwards (while still wearing his cap and gown...), came home that afternoon, turned 18 two days later, and was released from placement and probation two days after that.

So, in the space of a week, we found ourselves with our son back home, but legally a man, and off all probation. We were told by the probation officer that, had we not all agreed that he would return home, he would have had the choice and opportunity to allow the program to assist him financially and otherwise with finding housing and a job in the area and he would have been completely on his own.

When the judge released him, it was into his own custody rather than ours since he was 18, although it was understood that he and we wished for his return home.

I guess we went into this "transition" period with the mindset that, as parents, our job was basically done and moot other than to see that our own house rules are followed.

I can see that we need to do some thinking and make some revisions...

 

[Suz]

When you have your talk it would be a great time to help him plan for his future....I'm thinking specifically about the money. At this point he is doing what any 18 year old would do...dribbling it away and he will have nothing substantive to show for it.

He needs to start saving now for an apartment. First and last month's rent, security deposit, etc. sure don't come cheap.

He needs to start saving now for a car or insurance or other travel expenses- gas?

Furniture?

Deposits on utilities?

These are all developmental steps towards becoming a man.

I'm sure that none of you want him to live with you forever....do you? :wink:

Suz

 

[Sunlight]

so you give him a deadline to get a job. here they left if they would not work or go to school. one or the other or both. it is too easy to get used to hanging out and doing nothing. harder to get them back on track later.

by the way I know you love your son. my oldest moved out at 29 yrs old...two months ago. I was sitting on my hands to keep me from calling him 24/7. he has only stopped by twice. I went to his place once for a brief visit.

Time to cut the strings and the only way to do it is to make sure they can support themselves.

 

[DammitJanet]

Darn....can I ship Cory...or heck Billy...to them to set them up in living arrangements?

What is the song...California here I come, right back where I started from, open up them Golden Gates....

 

[BusynMember]

I actually feel that choosing to make him deal with living alone would have helped him more. Not been more comfortable for him, but better for him. JMO The number 18 is nothing more than he is a day older than he was before and, if he screws up, its on his record. I go more by the maturity of the child. All my kids, even my daughter, were independent early, and in my opinion it was for the good, especially for my daughter. She was too busy working and surviving and learning how to budget to continue her destructive lifestyle, and the brother that she was living with wouldn't even tolerate cigarette smoking. She knew he meant business and did not screw up. It's important that difficult child's believe we mean business or they won't comply. in my opinion your son is being agreeable now because he just got home and he wants you to trust him so he can do his worst. Not a positive approach, but in my opinion it's realistic--moreso than to believe he changed just because he went into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). He has to know you'll follow through and play hardball or he has no incentive to change.

 

[meowbunny]

Legally he's an adult. However, adults pay rent, buy food, clothing, gasoline, etc. They don't take their money and blow it while living with mommy and daddy. Kids do that. Considering he's not acting like an adult, he needs to have many of the same rules kids do -- curfew, chores (yes, on top of having a job), etc. He is part of a family. He isn't sharing an apartment.

What I would suggest is that you have him pay rent. You don't have to spend it. It can be put aside and given to him when he is ready to be on his own or used for college expenses. I wouldn't tell him you are doing this, though. The day could come when he would demand this money if he knew you were putting it aside for him.

I would also explain that even thought he is paying rent, he still has to follow house rules. The nominal rent he is paying is just a stepping stone towards adulthood. Unless he is paying one-third of all expenses, he is still a child living at home and will be treated as such. (It took me actually showing my daughter all bills and letting her see just how little she was contributing before she understood that house rules applied.)

I hope all goes well for you. He may have learned his lesson. This is something you'll know over time. Even so, he has to earn your trust, you can't just freely start trusting again.

 

[skeeter]

My son has never done drugs.

But believe me, even HE would not have been permitted to live the life style your son is now.
My son also has money (from a trust that an elderly aunt left him). He knew it is for college or such, and he was NOT to touch it otherwise. He worked part time from the age of 14. He paid for all gas and upkeep of his (very old, 1979) pickup. We paid insurance, but ONLY with the stipulation that he get good student discounts or HE would pay it.
He graduated with honors. He also worked that summer, and left for Great Lakes for Basic Training on August 15 two years ago. He didn't have any "transition time" or "time off".
He did use a bit of the trust to buy a more reliable vehicle to drive back and forth from Norfolk in. He is now married and doing his darndest to get his wife to learn the meaning of living within a budget.

What I'm trying to say is in my opinion (and it won't hurt me if you tell me to keep my opinion to myself) your son has once again been handed at least a silver plate, if not a platter. He should definately be working 40 hours - even if it's flipping burgers or cleaning floors (not that there's anything wrong with either job). He should also be paying you rent, paying all costs for transportation, etc. IF he starts school, full time, then he can decrease his amount of hours, but he should never NOT be working at some type of job (I did it back in the day while carrying something like 18 credit hours including 3 labs).

 

[donna723]

I agree with all the others. Right now he's enjoying all the privileges of being an "adult" with none of the corresponding responsibilities that go along with being an adult. It looks like he didn't really "transition" to coming back home - he just jumped right back into his old life - he's just a little easier to get along with.

And if these "friends" he spends all his time with are same pot smoking bunch that he hung out with before, I'd be very concerned. Hard to believe that he could be around a bunch of dedicated pot smokers all the time, and not be at least tempted to go back to it. It would like a recovering alcoholic trying not to drink but still wanting to spend all his time with his old buddies back at the bar!

Too much free time on their hands with no structure and no responsibilities is not good for any kid! Even most kids who are going off to college in the fall work during the summer to earn extra money. Not too many get to spend the whole summer just hanging out. My kids both worked part time during high school and went right to full time after they graduated. My daughter saved up her money to help pay her nursing school tuition. My son worked from the time he was fifteen, bought his first vehicle, gas and insurance, and paid for all his little "extras" with his own money. The summer between his Junior and Senior years, he worked three jobs - one full time and two part time. Didn't hurt either one of them a bit! They both learned to be very responsible, they learned that there is no such thing as a "free lunch", that someone has to work hard for the money that buys all that stuff, and that they were expected to pull their own share of the load. That's being an "adult", not just coming and going as they pleased. And there were still rules while they were in MY house, just common courtesy, like letting me know if they were going to be late, so I wouldn't worry myself sick. When they behaved like responsible, mature adults, then I treated them as such, but not before!

 

[hearthope]

Hi Camom!

Everytime I read a post of yours it is like reading something I have thought or written myself, your difficult child is so much like mine.

I am keeping you in my prayers! You are trying so hard to do the right thing, I admire that!

I agree with the others however, I am going to go with DDD and say I am not sure what to suggest.

I have done the micromanagement and I have wiped the slate clean.

Neither one, I am sorry to say, worked.

Stay strong and go with your mommy gut, you'll get thru this

Traci

 

[everywoman]

HH--that's my point about backing off. Isn't detachment allowing natural consequences to take place? Can't you detach and provide meals and a roof? I am not going to police my son---been there done that and wear the scars in my heart and in our relationship. At this point I can love him and not support his choices. I can appreciate his good points and not have to resent his bad choices. I have been in both places also. It is much easier to maintain a relationship without all the fighting and nagging...and once the money is gone, CAmom's will have to either work or go without like the rest of the world! Mine is beginning to see the hole he has dug for himself. It's hard...but he now blames himself not us for "making" his life so hard. Living with an addict (in recovery or not) is not easy---but it is his addiction to fight---not mine. All I have to do is love him. How in the world can you keep an 18 year old from hanging out with someone? How can you tell a young adult what they can and can't do with money they earned? It's not like they won't lie to you to do what they want. I would much rather have my son to be honest with me than sneak behind my back and lie to me.

 

[hearthope]

I think we all have to make decisions based on our own principals.

What works for one will not always work for another.

I felt like if I was providing a roof and my difficult child was using, I was just making his life easy.

I prayed for him to hit bottom and I knew he couldn't do it if I was providing a roof and food.

Sometimes, you have to be cold or hot and hungry to realize this is not the life you want.

If they don't experience enough 'problems' with the choices they are making, why would they ever want to change?


Traci

 

[standswithcourage]

Ditto Traci! I am coming to believe that too! My son was using under our roof and we were just giving him a cush place to do it. It is so hard to tell them to leave when they dont have anything but at the same time it is hard to watch them self destruct iin your own house because they can and we allow it.

 

[SunnyFlorida]

I don't have anything wise to say other than if he hadn't have come home with you all, how great that the program had other arrangements.

What was talked about prior to discharge? was the MUST be in school/work 40hrs/week ever brought up? Was joining the military an option?

I'm thinking the quicker you all can get a plan going..the better off everyone will be.

To be honest, I don't have much of a backbone, so I don't know how well I would do in your shoes. I do know, I'd rather have difficult child hate me and leave on their own or be asked to leave then to continue to "help" them and watch them never succeed.

Maybe you could institute the Do To Get in everything difficult child does. I do agree that the "honeymoon" period should be over and that it should be time for the 40hr week work, school, or military to come into play.

 

[CAmom]

I just can't tell you all how MUCH all your input means!!! This is so awesome!

I'm going to think through everything you've all shared and respond tomorrow.

Just to update, I HAVE considered each response, shared them with my husband, and we did venture into the rules-even-at-age-18-territory.

He wanted to know why, at age 18, he can't make his own decisions about when he comes home, although there was no "heat" behind this. We told him that, yes, he was 18, however, he was still being supported by US! He was living in OUR home, being clothed and fed by US, and that, as such, he needed to behave as a part of a family rather than a renter.

There's such a big difference in how he approached this and other discussions since he's been home as compared to a year ago--it's almost as though he WANTS us to stop him in his tracks. Tonight is a perfect example: He told me earlier that, since it was Friday night, he'd like to go to the movies and then spend the night at a particular friend's house. We told him that that would be okay, BUT, he needed to be ready to get back to reality fairly soon.

He asked if he could have the rest of his two-week "break" from school, and be ready to work on Monday. We agreed that this was reasonable.

Later, even after we had okayed this "sleep-over" with his friend, he called and asked what time he had to be home--almost as though we had never agreed to his overnight stay!

I'm taking this as him asking for limits to be set, so we told him that, since he was apparently not spending the night at his friend's house, we felt that it would be best for him to be home by midnight as we had previously discussed. There was no arguement. I feel as though my head is spinning...

 

[meowbunny]

You may be right. He may have just been waiting for you to give him some limits. That he didn't argue and accepted your comments is a wonderful thing! I hope he keeps it up and I hope you continue to help him grow. It truly does sound like he has the potential to be a wonderful person. Let's hope he continues this path and meets it!

Giving him boundaries doesn't mean controlling him. Right now, he is too new to his old life (how's that for a convoluted thought process?) to not have the boundaries. Work, reasonable curfews, responsibilities around the house will help him learn to make better decisions in the long run in my opinion.

HUGS!!! And go kiddo go!!! Keep up the good work and deeds.

 

[DammitJanet]

Just as a completely outside the box situation...I had two totally different kids.

Jamie and Cory.

We rarely had to throw down the hammer on Jamie when he was a teen because he basically policed himself fairly well. He did pull a few stunts where we had to pull him back into line but he accepted those limits with grace.

If Jamie told us he was going to spend the night at his buddies house, then you could bet your bottom dollar that was exactly where he would be. I also knew without a doubt that there would some drinking and pot usage going on at these parties from time to time. I never had one single worry that my son would partake. Ok...I take that back. He would nurse ONE bacardi wine cooler thingy and keep filling the bottle back up with sprite. He didnt smoke at all. He wouldnt ride in a car with anyone who drank. He spent the night with his buddies.

After High School, Jamie immediately started working with his dad hanging sheetrock and metal studs while waiting to get called up for bootcamp. He graduated on a friday and started work that monday. He left for boot on feb 18 and his last day of hanging sheetrock was the friday before that.

Jamie never ever hung out with kids and wanted to bad things. He had a goal. He wanted the military. When he wasnt working, he was hunting or fishing. The boy lived for the outdoors. He still does. That is why the career path he has chosen is so perfect for him.