Situation with gfg32 has gone "beserkier"

[BusynMember]

My 36 year old difficult child will always be one. Oh, he has a good job and his son half the time and he appears to be a responsible father. He is bright and doesn't live off anyone...he has some good points. But he will always have times of deterioration when he acts like a disrespectful, abusive toddler and I am never deluded anymore that he is going to really change. I agree with Cedar. Once they are over 30, it's different. If they are still difficult children at that time, they are not going to do a heck of a lot of changing.

I think 32 is a bit of a con artist (which is typical of a difficult child) and you will probably never have an completely honest relationship with him, but I think he will learn how he has to act around you and he will do it, as my 36 year old does when he finds it important to talk to me. And usually he likes to call and talk to me and, when he isn't in one of his moods/states, we can have good conversations. Is he ever going to have the type of character I'd have liked to have seen in my own child? No. Never. He will always have a cold streak and a mean streak. If I'm being 100% honest with myself, I admit that I wish he were a different type of person...loving, giving, caring, and the type of person who is peaceful and content. He's not. I can't control it. I don't spend much time regretting it anymore. When he was a little boy and showed these characteristics, I was mortified and terrified and in denial all at once. He went to his first therapist at eight because other kids kept getting hurt around him "on accident" (cough, cough) and he did some other worrisome behaviors.

If I look back, I was always concerned about him and it was always about how he treated other people. In spite of his willingness to go to therapy and doing it, he has not gotten past many of his little boy behaviors. Having a relationship with him requires the concept of "radical acceptance" (look it up on the internet. I think you'll find it very interesting and very freeing of your mind). Basically, he is what he is. I accept it so I no longer fight it in my own mind or when he acts like a person with a flawed character. I no longer wait for the day he will become this empathetic, warm person. And I don't make excuses for his behavior to myself either anymore.

I'm rattling on and on. Maybe I'm just tired, but this made me think about my relationship with my own son. And when Cedar talked about "over 30" wow...she's right...nice, Cedar. The older they are, the less chance there is that they will do a turnabout. I can't recall when I stopped expecting one, but I believe it was close to 36's 30th birthday. This doesn't mean that nobody over 30 can change. It just means that, in my own personal opinion, if somebody hasn't tried hard to change by then, they probably don't want to and are far less likely to put forth the effort. And perhaps in some of our minds (I know it was true in mine), my expectations also decreased. At this point in time, I have no expectations that 36 will try to do any better and that's ok. It's his life and he has to do what he wants with it. Just like we all have to do what we want to do in life. Nobody can change us but us.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I am glad the things I wrote helped, Strength. Knowing we are not the only ones such terrible, shaming things have happened to, knowing there seem to be steps to the destructive courses the kids are following, helps me find a place to stand up from. It is hard to maintain a sense of competence in the face of it all. Yet, at the same time we are being just blown away by the pain, we are expected to have answers, to somehow know what is happening and where we all are going. Just like is happening this morning for Child of Mine, we lie awake at night, trying to grow courage for what's coming next.

And in the morning? Off to work. The difference between what it is and what it looks like is crazy-making.

It's so hard; such a hard thing.

One of the most helpful things I have ever been told is Recovering's "Envision your child in the palms of God's hands."

*****************

Recovering, I will make a separate post. Mostly, I am feeling broken down a little.

Too much loss, too much shame. I wish no one knew.

I wish I did not have to know.

This is actually a phase of healing, a time when I will come away able to not talk about what it feels like, anymore.

I have been in this place, before.

Cedar

 

[DammitJanet]

Personally I think adult kids who cant manage to live without us are lying to themselves. My son who is almost 33 has simply had it way too easy staying with us. Now he is mad as a wet hen that we are doing this "to him." I cant figure out what we are doing to him. This man has held a pretty good job for the last 7 years and is now manager of a retail store. Personally I never thought that would happen but it did. He is perfectly able to live here along with his brother. Heck, he could have moved out several years ago but Tony has always been convinced he is the most disabled of our kids and somehow we neglected getting him help when he was a child. Maybe we did but back then I had never even heard of Aspergers.

I have told my kids over and over again that by the time I was their ages I was a parent to 3 boys who had problems. I was already dealing with special education and mental health. I had no choice but to grow up because my parents would have laughed me out of town if I had suggested I needed help. Darn at 33, my oldest was 12!

I am not feeling a bit sorry for them anymore. I do have one son who basically did everything right as far as leaving home. And he did it in a fairly hard way. He joined the Marines and then stayed up there and became a member of the sheriff's dept. He has never asked to come home. In fact, he only accepted money from us one time and that was not his fault.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Maybe the comparative ugliness is within me, not outside me, with dramatic, loud, noisy actions like his---jail, arrests, homelessness, but mine is this: arrogance, control, pride, requirements and expectations.

Isn't that just as ugly, just as corrupting, just as bitter?

I so so see myself in sync with him, not the same thing of course, much different but perhaps the same amount of work to do.

There is no student without a teacher, no teacher without a student. It is impossible for there to be a lesson where only one person teaches and the other learns. Each teach, both learn. I think that is true. I think that for us, for the mothers, the challenge is to acknowledge the ugliness fully without becoming either brittle or bitter.

I don't know how to do that. But just recently, I have made the decision to go after it, to see and dance in the anger, and not to be afraid of or ashamed of it, anymore.

There is so much anger there. So yes, frustrated arrogance, control, and pride are corrupting. They are as much the source of the hurt as the things that are lost.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

This is so, so true...arrogance, pride, control, requirements, expectations, sighs of disappointment, martyrdom. Not just with difficult child but to differeing degrees with everyone around me. I want to loosen all that, let it all go...the funny thing is I have let SOOO much of it go, I am practically unrecognizable! but more more more work to do. Child you hit it on the head. Cedar, thank you for highlighting. I saw that when I read the original post, but it slipped through my grasp.

 

[SeekingStrength]

....which brings us to the (full of the above adjectives) email gfg32 sent late last night and which husband and i read this morning. It was addressed to my mom, husband and me. My mom has already emailed gfg32 back, telling him she will see what she can do!!!

Warning: This is a very long email. For folks who find time to read it, I would much appreciate advice on how to handle. Ignore? If not, respond how? It's unbelievable how he has reconstructed basically EVERYTHING.

I haven't told dfg32 anything about detachment--guessing my mom has repeated stuff I've shared with her.
************************

I've thought long about this. I sent it to all three of you on purpose but I won't read responses from any of you. Its not mean.

First, grandma has offered to change my life-get me a car, pay for grad school (her selection) and money, if I just say I believe what she wants me to believe. I won't do it. That's not me. I don't believe in God. At least not a higher power that humans can assign any attributes to. I'm not writing this to have that argument but to point out what I deal with. Its dangled in front of me that I could feel like my dreams are possible again- something I haven't felt since 2005 if ONLY I would believe in something I find to be nonsense.

Be sure, I don't feel its nonsense BC I am bitter about childhood..no, I used critical thinking skills, research as far as understanding what independent sources are etc... I included an attachment to each of you that isn't the whole reason I don't believe but its enough to where a sane, fair adult can say..should say.."ok, any adult who reads this short piece of evidence-undisputable evidence-might not believe the same as what the Lutheran Church or an Christian,Muslim or religious sect teaches. And I know grandma will respond to the evidence with paragraph after paragraph of circular logic that makes no sense and says nothing. I'm sorry. There is no polite way to tell somebody that something you have devoted your life to is nonsense.

And even IF there were an afterlife it doesn't !make sense that a worthy God would let people in based on if they guessed the right creation myth to follow. That was obviously included in scriptures to scare earlier ages so that the numbers of new churches would grow.

But Im not trying to change y'all. I'm saying I'm a sane adult who is having an offer dangled in front of my face but pulled away because I won't fake that I believe that stuff. I'm as close to believing that as you guys are to wondering if Zuess is the ultimate being.

If I were to take the offer I'd be manipulative

Brings me to (husband and me--gfg32 refers to us by our first names):

Detatchment?!!! You have done a lot of research!? You have to know all the variables you are dealing with to do any research. Otherwise its speculation

Instead of books, look at my own life. EVERY time I've told you it was time for you guys to help me you didn't listen to me. I didn't need to read a minute for a minute of Nintendo, I didnt need a car with no air conditioning in it that would break down on side of road, I didn't make fun of that girl in (classroom teacher who called me in 9th grade saying gfg32 had been rude) class, I didn't call Moms co worker. That guy y'all made me call and apologize to...

Listen to me. I don't need a Dr...I need a job.

What happened with (girlfriend) 3 weeks ago wasn't at ALL like N and T. The two previous instances involved girls that I had 1) tried to dump already 2) dumped me within days of my birthday...
I preceded with actions that I'm not proud of.

(girlfriend) got a PFA only to show me she really was moving to home for at least two years....So this isn't a "(gfg32's name) will never change if we help him". What happened in last three weeks has never happened. Last summer I lost my fave job in a very hurtful way and I got very depressed and the results of that depression came to a head the night (girlfriend) got that paperwork.

My job prospects increase dramatically NEXT month, but I'm homeless next week.

You guys offered help. I left Wendy's when (his dad) said that y'all "had gone bankrupt from this". I was bout to cry. You hadn't spent a dime on this. You still havent.

And some of this, I know, is that y'all are bitter. I called y'all out on some things with (me-his mom) over text that you (probly (his dad) mostly) didn't wanna hear. But I tell you again. You DID fail me in many ways. And I'm not hearing "it was hard for us as well"

For one..the impact on a 9-18 year old don't even equate to impact on 30-45 year olds.

I DIDNT have a bed through high school. Be a f'n (gfg32 says the word, but I thought I best clean it for the forum) man and go get me one. I showed up short on sleep every day....

Even IF there was a click and clack article about car safety...when the next kid comes of age 3 years later maybe you say " gee. Let's stay consistent. Maybe give the 18 year old the new sports car and the younger kid can get in line". What message was I supposed to get from that? I don't hate (his sister) for that....but that's common sense. And you know what, I understood that logic at the time but y'all had me convinced there was something wrong with me.

Next point. How did y'all allow this environment where (his sister) never spoke to me then coaches (his younger brother) to do same. Adults!! I could go on and on and on

(me-his mom) especially will say "well gee, I'm not perfect, no human is....". No. Y'all were lacking bring function, humanity or both when you raised me.

And so, I'm getting older. I haven't felt like my dreams were within reach since October 22, 2005 (few months before that).

(girlfriend) convinced me they were briefly but my record came to haunt me and I fell back. But that record is all but dead in weeks. I'm trying to get over a bridge right now, to the next chapter....that I want to include grad school, a professional career and a wife and kids. Not working day labor to afford motel room that cost same as what I made. To avoid streets in only city I know with shelters, a city infested with drugs. I'm at that juncture.....

Being told to "go to hell" and being called an "a hole" is nothing, NOTHING compared to finding out your mother tried to convince (girlfriend) not to pick me up at Manchester airport. I heard the reasoning behind that and if it wasn't so jaw droppingly sad it would be laughable.

Y'all offered 2 weeks at a motel and Dr visit. Easily 350-400 in value. Grandma was offering more. And you all 3 are withdrawing for shameful reasons. You might have researched "detachment" but you don't know anything about "me"

I need that assistance. I'm telling you I do. I don't ask for that kind of help but the next few weeks are critical. And now thinks are aggravated by what I'm sure is a broken right pinky. I got that the same night I asked y'all to meet me at (bar). The same day you requested (girlfriend) not pick me up and you requested she enforce PFA. Wow!!!

But I would love to have freedom to go to Dr and have it assessed. The Dr is covered by (state he is in) but medications aren't. It hurts and keeps me from any work.

So if your not gonna help me because your mad about the last three weeks then....well, I know all of you have pride, and pride is great until it becomes a wall.

I'm telling you....listen to me FOR ONCE. This is a turning point. And YES you do owe me. My childhood was shitty. Not scars on my back or sexual molestation but you made me feel like "the lesser".

I need help, I need a mulligan. If you can help with some shelter for a few weeks I can find a job and get my pinky fixed. But I really have looked all over (town he is in). I'm trying to get to May 1st when I can get to (girlfriend's hometown), work for (a specific big manufacturing company)...then return to (city where he is now) with a solid job reference.

If you say no, its pride or your"detachment" theory. Which I'm telling you doesn't apply here.

My life can turn. I'm not conning you guys. Listen to me. Ever since I did what every kid I know would've done and had a party summer of 1999 y'all turned me loose alone on the jungle that is the world. So when I come limping back to the home village asking for help listen to ME. Don't wait on (guy he stayed with down here) to call you. He doesn't need your version. I'm 32.

Seriously guys. You baffle a lot of folks that hear of your methods. Pull your head out of the textbook and listen to ME.

I'll close with something that I guess is manipulative.
I need to feel like a human soon. If you help then I'll keep the shot at us being a family alive in my heart. The chance for y'all to know your grandkids girlfriend and I want to have. If not that's just once too many times.

I once called Dad from (ex girlfriend who got last restraining order on him) phone, (exgf) next to me asking for a small bit of cash to get me through next few days. You refused for similar reasons. Months later you were spending much more on my collect calls and commissary money. Help me when I TELL you I need help.

Come on guys. I deserve a mulligan

***********************

I cannot begin to explain some of the stuff he says. he DID have a bed until his senior year in high school. He didn't "want" a bed anymore.

The small amount of money he asked for with his ex was $1000. (not small for us)

He and his sister both worked and saved for their cars. I insisted he get a Volvo....because I had read they were the safest car. He bought the cheapest Volvo he could find when he had about $3000. Sure enough, they were expensive to maintain so I learned. His sister saved close to $5000 and purchased a used Firebird. husband and I put no money into either car (except lots of repairs for the Volvo)

 

[recoveringenabler]

He said at the beginning he won't read any responses from any of you, so I would not respond.

That is one long manipulation and one long well thought out bunch of creative truths to guilt you into giving him what he wants. Don't buy any of it. If I answered at all all I would say is, "we trust you to find your own way son, We love you,good luck."

I love the threats of never seeing your grandchildren too, nice touch. Pardon this, but your son sounds like a grown up jerk who is acting like a 12 year old.

Money until MAY?? When his life miraculously turns around for the better?? So, you pay for 3 months while his pinky heals. Again, pardon this, but it's laughable.

Put the email in the shredder, delete it and go out to lunch with your husband and celebrate the life you and husband are planning together now that one of your children is grown and the other one is safe in his fantasy world.

 

[Echolette]

Recovering is dead-on with this. Shred that sucker. Never read it again. Do not validate it with a response. It is an unbelievable amount of blaming, complaining, rewriting history junk. Wow. I'm sorry you even read it. I"m sorry I read it!!! I mean, after all, a broken pinky means you can't work, right? No doubt. Holy cow.

And lest you be tempted to try to correct him...you will not convince him about the bed or the car. He is very invested in believing it went down the way he said it did...otherwise, what excuse does he have for his choices and his life? He can't afford to let go of that.

And...I love the attempt at control, his insistance on having the last word "I won't read any responses". He gets to tell the story, no variations allowed!

Oh, and "I won't read any responses just send money"

Please.

Take some deep breaths. Move away from the toxicity. He is pretty clever. I think he can figure things out. You are pretty strong. I think you can figure things out too. You are already there!!!!

 

[SeekingStrength]

Thanks, guys! husband and I are going out to lunch and then to see "Dallas Buyers Club"...a comedy might be a better choice, but I want to catch this movie while I can.

You write such empowering words! Thanks so much. My day just got much better.


Sent from my iPhone using ConductDisorders

 

[Childofmine]

It is always tempting to correct the record in writing but that leads to a tit for tat and back and forth that we ultimately grow weary of, throw out hands up and give up anyway.

They can always outlast us.

But why even accept the invitation to dance that sick dance? It reduces us, yet again.

If you can, only silence.

An even more generous response is what has already been recommended here...we trust you can work out your own life. We love you son."

That is truly turning the other cheek! And even though he may not recognize it, YOU will.

Enjoy your lunch and movie! Breathe deeply. You're in charge of your choices.



Sent from my iPhone using ConductDisorders

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Oh boy, you are not going to believe this: MY SON COULD HAVE WRITTEN THAT EMAIL. THE DETAILS ARE SO SIMILAR. THE TONE IS EXACTLY THE SAME. THE ULTIMATE GOAL, ALWAYS JUSTIFIED, IS CASH, ALWAYS CASH. HE CALLS husband AND I BY OUR FIRST NAMES, TOO. AND HE NEVER LETS US RESPOND, EITHER!

Our difficult child son's attitude about his first car (a piece of junk), his second car (husband put it in difficult child son's name not to establish a credit rating for him, but to borrow money in difficult child's name) his third car (which was given to difficult child after he destroyed the second one ~ which, just for the record, husband wound up paying off.) difficult child son would receive other cars and most recently, a truck from us, over the years.

difficult child son threw two parties at our house and was thrown out after the second. He came home to live again, of course. But in all these years, he has never, ever, stopped accusing us of destroying his life, beginning with that.

There are other similarities.

Maybe you accidentally received an email from my difficult child?

:O)

Your difficult child is certainly telling everyone what they can do with their rules, and why. He is telling everyone they are not as bright as he is. He is blaming each of you for everything he does wrong.

Your difficult child told you not to respond. Don't. You are free. Your son has not come to you with a viable plan for putting his life back together. He is being a bad, irresponsible son.

Turn away.

Write an email indicating that you agree.

Just that.

Nothing else.

Don't say with what. Don't offer money.

Stop worrying about this adult male who has, like my own son, learned to manipulate me and husband for just enough to get by on instead of creating his own life ~ and hates me for it.

I did not have to read through the entire email. I read enough to know your difficult child expects you to pay for graduate school. Not grandma, who did offer, but you. I don't know what the other similarities are. But I do know your son is not only abusing his girlfriends ~ he is abusing his parents, as well. Midwest Mom did a thread on parents abused by their adult children before you came to the site.

It was such an eye opener to me that I called my son on his tone and language and haven't heard from him since. That part is neither here nor there...the part that matters is that I realized, from reading MWM's post, that like her, I was an abused mom, too.

I was so surprised.

But once I could see it? I could see it was true.

So I could deal with it appropriately.

www.patriciaevans.com

This is the site of a woman who writes simply and extensively about verbally abusive relationship. About how the abuser thinks, about why he or she does it, about what it does to the person being abused. The dynamic is the same, whether it is a parent or a lover being abused.


What I decided for my own son is that he will need to stand up as a man, and the only way he can do that is if I really am not in the picture ~ not for money, anyway. Turns out, that is all he wants from me. Guilt money, blood money ~ I don't know why, but I do know there is a hunted feeling to interactions with difficult child. Even when he had money, he was so angry with us.

We always thought it must be related to what happened with his sister. That she needed so much attention, I mean.

I don't know what it is, really. He was a nice boy before he started using drugs. He was a nice, nice boy and young man.

But he is not a nice man, now.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I would not shred the email. I would print it, and keep it, in an envelope marked "difficult child".

After a time of healing, if you go back and read through it again, the manipulation, the inappropriateness of his blaming and demands, and the rude, hectoring attitude he takes toward all of you will seem shockingly wrong.

As you come to realize the similarities between the things your son does and says and the difficult child kids (adult or not) here on the site, you will be able to break free of that horrible, dark place where you think you have to fix something you broke.

Is drug use a part of this picture? That is what it turned out to be with our son. We knew he used something recreationally, but thought the gist of the problem was bad parenting. It took the longest time for me to get how big the drug piece was. I learned it through reading postings, here. Drug use causes such similar behaviors and attitudes.

It must be a hard thing to beat. It seems to me that my son's anger has to do with the addiction, and the failure it caused, and with so much loss. I think they get so angry at us because we can't fix it.

A hard thing for him, too.

Cedar

 

[SeekingStrength]

Yes, there are drugs...I didn't think that until one night, about six weeks ago, when he became very upset because I would not send him $20 via Western Union. The next day, he sent a pretty mean email. I am a hospice volunteer and was telling one of my patients about it. (I have known him over a year and we have a wonderful friendly relationship) He said, That's a druggie. Tell him you cannot afford to buy his affection."I told R ...'nah, i don't think there are drugs involved." He said, You mark my word, that is a druggie desperate for his next fix. The the girlfriend told me, during the flurry of texts and phone calls after the restraining order, that he was smoking spice every day. (I had to Google spice and read about it for days - not good news)--and he was expecting her to pay for it. That explained why the requests for money from husband and me were becoming more frequent. She made me swear not to tell difficult child that she shared this news with me.

Cedar, I would not wish a difficult child like ours on my worst enemy, so please forgive me that it helps a lot to know you know exactly what I am describing. (because, honestly, i wish you didn't...but since you do, anyway....) :ambivalence:

Just an hour ago, I was feeling sad, worried about gfg32, hoping he can find work, hoping he realizes no job is beneath him...surely he could get on at Subway, McDonalds...? and, in a few minutes I'm so darn mad again. We offered him help after he gets in therapy (medications, if needed) and has a job. But, noooooo, nobody puts contingencies on him. He has to call the shots.

husband and I are retired. Retired folks don't make enough to support unmotivated gfg32's...even if we wanted to. and, till May? Gee whiz. husband and I are not ready to pay for one night, even. It would take the contingencies given him PLUS he would have to be nice and civil. That should protect husband and me for a long while, lol.

Verbally abusive. Yes...I remember my mom and I talking about that several years ago....and then, i guess I just forgot. That is NOT something to forget. I will go to the website you shared above.

....and Cedar, you made me remember some car stories, too! agh

 

[helpangel]

Wow trying to get caught up on reading the forums and just read that email... Wow (yep the BS is pretty deep)

He should have put a warning to get your waders out and put some safety glasses on too... Talk about slinging the delusional self serving entitlement BS around... wow

came asking for help? NO the sit down to hear his problem and trouble shoot idea's on how to get life back on track? He didn't want to talk or sit down - he wanted bar money (if I recall right) even had ride outside waiting, then it was money for haircut...

the whining about his pinky, UGH that is just plain pathetic... he's 32yo time to man up!

I think the one text your husband sent (different thread) saying to go to a hospital was about the best advise, in my opinion he's delusional right now so the only next step for him would be a psychiatric evaluation.

I'm so sorry he's doing this ... poo to you, husband, Gma and even God he doesn't discriminate seems to hate everyone & everything except his perfect self and these imaginary future children with the woman he scared enough to get a restraining order against him.

I feel sorry for those kids (if they ever happen) when they find out it is their job to support him in his old age - it's the least they could do after he blessed them with life and gave them his DNA (where does the entitlement stuff end?)

If a conversation about that email ever got brought up I would say "you didn't want responses and when I read my mom was paying your car, school & living expenses I didn't read any further as you had it all figured out."

Anyway you're not alone Angel gets really nasty with the guilt nonsense when she is trying to con me too; in the future I'm gonna do what someone else suggested and just agree. Angel's big guilt thing is "if I acted like a real mother" and how "I never did anything for her" - if I agree then it's been established I'm a useless do nothing piece of crap and guess what? I don't have to do anything!

I have 3 kids not just one yet seems like my whole life has revolved around Angel, her appointments, camping out at hospitals getting admissions, her school, her messes, what she smashed, who she injured, what she stole ... I actually had a cop pass me at the library and say "hi Angel's mom" ... she wants to fire me? be my guest. In 2001 I gave up a dream job because she needed a full time mom, I'd be more then happy to get my life back.

I'm calling for an all out revolution of the parents on this board and everyone reading this who has an adult child sucking the life out of you stand up and yell "I MATTER, I COUNT AND IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP AND LET ME HAVE A LIFE!"

Nancy

 

[1905]

That e-mail is way over the top. He wants to tell you what awful people you are, yet send money. Don't respond at all. You aren't going to be able to convince him of anything, and you don't even want to get into a toxic back and forth thing. He's too old for this, it's sad. Completely remove yourself from him. When he points his finger at you, he doesn't realize 3 fingers point back at him. I'm sorry though for all th

 

[SeekingStrength]

Thanks for the validation. There were two more emails this AM...addressed me only. I skimmed them and told husband, Maybe I should email and suggest he get to emergency room for finger and tell them about his need for therapy. And husband said, Maybe so, but wait a bit.

And then, I woke up a little more. At 32, he knows about emergency rooms. Before moving them to a folder, marked GFG32, I read both emails more carefully. He is using a different slant--still guilt for me--but more about regrets I will have in the future about this, that I don't know all the variables going on, that he just needs help until May 1 (sounds like major $$ to me), etc., etc. And both subject lines include DO NOT RESPOND. He makes it sound like I am the one throwing everything away by not helping him in his need. He also claims he and (ex?)girlfriend are good. In fact, he even claims the help is for both of them. I don't believe that for a second. (ex)girlfriend would call me if that was the case.

My mom called last night. He had emailed her and said he is ready to take her up on her offer of grad school. She reminded him that she gets to choose the school. She said he sent a furious email back and told her he is posting a letter to all three of our Facebook pages so the world will know about us. She has a FB page that she never uses and wanted help taking it down. She can't remember her password, lol. Anyway, nothing was on any of our FB pages...He deleted me as a friend months ago so can't post on my page, anyway.

I so appreciate you guys taking the time to read this daily stuff and helping me through it. You told me he would amp it up....and that has certainly happened. How long will it take him to figure things out?? Surely, he will? Please? Sometimes, i DO feel some guilt, but remember that husband and I said we would give him a leg up after he got into therapy, got a job and turned his life around. He never even mentions therapy....just that husband and I don't understand. He referred to detachment again and how wrong I am. That word certainly bothers him and I can guess why.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

That's a druggie. Tell him you cannot afford to buy his affection.

You mark my word, that is a druggie desperate for his next fix.

that he was smoking spice every day.

Cedar, I would not wish a difficult child like ours on my worst enemy, so please forgive me that it helps a lot to know you know exactly what I am describing.

It does help to know there are other parents loving self destructive kids, and to learn how they survive the horror of it, Strength. As you read more here, you will meet so many of us. Knowing there were other parents whose difficult child kids were doing the exact, same things ~ talking the same way, wrecking their cars the same way, dropping out of school, refusing to work, blaming the way they were raised ~ helped me let go of that guilty, I should have been a better mom thing that my son used to make me vulnerable. Just recently, thanks to the parents here on the site, I realized my son was manipulating me with the things I most regretted ~ that I had actually given him the secret ammunition he was using to devastate me. It was the strangest thing to see the icy coldness of him, Strength. I think he does love me? But...drugs do the strangest, most horrible things. I feel so sorry for him. I don't think he is using now.... Maybe he is. What I do know, and what you will see too, Strength, from reading on Substance Abuse and here on P.E., is that whatever we do doesn't help them.

It gets to be about cold survival. Especially once we are retired, the kids can, and will, destroy us financially.

We have to learn all we can so we can fight this without hating ourselves or our difficult child kids. It's really hard to learn that.

But we do, because we have to.

*********

Strength?

I was a Hospice volunteer too, for the longest time!

And my husband and I are retired, too. And our son has lived with us three times since we stopped working. And each time, it cost us a car, and deposit and rent money to get him on his own, again. And that is just how we looked at it, too ~ getting him out of our home.

And by the time he finally left? It was worth every penny.

I love what the Hospice patient said, about not being able to afford buying affection. That is good. Other good things are:

I love you too much to watch you self-destruct, and I am not going to give you money to help you do it.

Oh, that's terrible! What are you going to do, difficult child?

You are so bright and strong, difficult child. I know everything is going to work out for you.

No. Money.

No.

It is always appropriate to say: "Let me get back to you." Time is what we need, to clear our heads and make the response we meant to make, instead of letting the love we feel for our kids dupe us into saying and doing things that are bad for both of us.

I will post a link which addresses phrases and mindsets to use when talking to our adult kids in general, and to our adult kids who are using drugs. There is even something there about how to address the request for money when we are retired and "living the life of luxury" as my difficult child son describes it to anyone who will listen.

Spice is very dangerous, Strength. You do not want this son coming home.

Cedar

 

[Childofmine]

Strength, remember that when we really really begin to detach and our difficult children see and feel that we are serious, they push back HARD. It makes them furious. They are even more determined to break us down. Because, we have taught them so, so well that it works. If they just keep on, finally, we will break.

The book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend talks about this---that when we begin to set boundaries with anyone, they won't like it.

Then, if we keep on being strong, in their desperation to manipulate somebody, anybody, to get what they want, they go on to the next person (your mother), and the next and the next, and then back to us, when we least expect it.

It is what they do. It is part of the cycle. For so many years, this is how they have operated, and they have to learn a new way of living, just like we do.

Hang in there---keep coming back here. Use all of the tools at your disposal, including self-care, to stay strong and become stronger. Read about Radical Acceptance.

We are pulling for you. Your story is helping me as I have to face all of this again with my difficult child coming out of jail Saturday. I am building my strength and I am getting it from people like you, right here on this site.

Peace and prayers for all of you today.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

At 32, he knows about emergency rooms.

I read both emails more carefully. He is using a different slant--still guilt for me--but more about regrets I will have in the future

both subject lines include DO NOT RESPOND

She said he sent a furious email back and told her he is posting a letter to all three of our Facebook pages so the world will know about us.

You told me he would amp it up....and that has certainly happened.

Sometimes, i DO feel some guilt, but remember that husband and I said we would give him a leg up after he got into therapy, got a job and turned his life around.

He referred to detachment again and how wrong I am.

I was so happy to read that you got what was happening to you when you thought about posting about going to the Emergency room. Picking out the pattern of manipulation in the emails is stellar progress for you too, Strength.

Re: Exposing everyone on FB. difficult child kids typically want to tell the world about our rottenness. They want to use the information they have against us (that we were bad parents/that we are bad parents now because we refuse to help them) to humiliate us unless we pay to keep the secret of our badness.

It's convoluted reasoning.

I think that might be related to their therapists' responses to this kind of confession when they were teens? But they are grown ups, now....

That you and husband have a plan for when and how you would help is excellent. That is the one way I know of to go through this without destroying ourselves out of guilt and shame and pain. There truly is nothing we can do for a child who is drug addicted. It's like throwing money into a hole. There is never anything to show for it. They always want more. They come to hate you for the sake of the drug you refuse to pay for.

It totally sucks to have a drug addicted child. It sucks worse to have a drug addicted child who is an adult.

My son hates this site, too.

:O)

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Here you go, Strength:

www.drkathleenmccoy.blogspot.com/2012/06/helping-adult-children-through-rough.html

Child of Mine? I am holding you and your son in my thoughts and prayers through Saturday. It will be what it is going to be, Child. You will be strong enough, and we will be here, afterwords.

I'm so sorry this is happening, to any of us ~ our difficult child kids, too.

Cedar