Son in jail nightmare continues

[sickandtired1]

Hound Dog, I know what you mean and I totally agree with "you do the time". However, initially we discussed (hubby and I) that we would not get a lawyer, but our friend (lawyer) said we should atleast help him here since it could be the difference between 5 or 15 years in jail. While I know my son will do (and should) jail time, if it can be reduced somewhat then maybe he has hopes for a "normal" life someday. Other than that we are not supporting him (no bail, little contact, will leave visits if he acts out, will not accept prison calls, can't live in our house). I hope we are not making a mistake and will be repeating this nightmare again for another crime. Its so hard when it is your child and you know they have some mental/emotional or personality disorder. How do we do it???? I wish there was a book to tell you the right thing to do!

 

[mrsammler]

Has he access to a public defender? A question for your lawyer friend might be "Will it make a difference, in terms of verdict/sentence, if his lawyer is privately retained vs. a public defender?" I agree that there's no sense in him going to trial (I assume he'll plead guilty) with no lawyer at all--the judicial system is a "club" of lawyers and ex-lawyers (i.e., judges), and it routinely punishes defendants who don't opt into the club via retaining counsel. But must you pay for a lawyer for him vs. him being represented for free by a public defender, especially if he's just going to plead guilty?

 

[toughlovin]

OK this is my take on this..... I think the idea of not bailing him out, paying for a lawyer etc. is great in theory. The point is to not keep enabling bad behavior and make them accountable and face the consequences of their actions. That is very good. the problem is the reality of our court system is that it is wonderful in principaly and pretty messed up in practice. It is an adversarial system with one side against another.... so going in without a lawyer really stacks the deck against you. Your son committed a serious crime and yet he is still young (and stupid as only the young can be)..... I think at this point going in without a lawyer, or only a court appointed attorney is going to make the chances of him doing more time very good. How much jail time does he really need to be held accountable and face the consequences. I don't think 15 years instead of 5 is going to teach him any more.... so as a mom I would want to give him that chance at having a normal life after jail. He is young and there is hope. Also a lot of prisons do have various programs for inmates, I hope he gets some help while there.My son is also 19 and also has many issues. He has not committed as serious a crime as your son but he did a whole series of stupid things, one of which was fairly serious in my book. We also did not bail him out and he spent one night in lockup with a friend and they saw it as a big joke. We let him have the court appointed attorney.... after the last stupid thing they revoked his bail and so he was held without bail. Personally I think the court did the right thing by doing this as he really didn't think anything would happen because it took several stupid offenses for this to happen. He spent two weeks in jail and discovered that he really hated jail a lot.... gone was the i don't care if I go to jail attitude. He does not want to go to jail!!! Anyway once his bail was revoked we got him a lawyer.... because at that point the stakes were higher and I really didn't think a year in jail would help him... I knew what he needed was treatment. Having a lawyer that works with the DA helped them come up with a plea deal... my son is stll facing consequences. He had to plead guilty to a felony so he has that on his record. He is on probation and has to be drug tested. He has a suspended sentance so if he screws up he goes to jail and he knows that. So it is not easy for him. Some may feel he got off but he still has all this hanging over his head with the reality of time in jail so he knows what is at stake. It did not cure him and he does not totally have his act together but he is trying and I think has a bit more respect for the legal system and is staying out of trouble at least for now....All this to say I think you are doing the right thing at this point by getting your son a lawyer.... only if you can afford it that is. I don't think you should put yourself in a situation where you are going Occupational Therapist (OT) lose your house, or major assets if you help him out. I think this is a time to figure out how you can help him without hurting yourself. I feel the same way about jail visits and phone calls. He is your son, and no matter what he has done you love him. So do for him what feels good to you... and dont do what doesn't feel good to you. There are no right or wrong answers here.

 

[mrsammler]

I would agree with ToughLovin's post. It's one thing not to enable via rewarding bad behavior with bail-outs, lawyers to get out of consequences, etc. It's another to refuse to provide a lawyer, if you can afford and want to help, to spare him a massive sentence when a shorter sentence is possible. Either way, he suffers an organic and serious consequence for his misbehavior--but the worse of the two could be life-ruining and, if it can be prevented at an acceptable financial cost, that's worth doing. I would add that difficult child should repay you every penny of the cost of the lawyer (even though we know difficult children are very bad about repaying debts), once it's all said and done, but I know that's a moot point at this juncture.

 

[Hound dog]

Ahhh. Well, yes. I do see now why you've decided to help with the lawyer. That's why I try not to judge on such things because they can actually depend on the situation itself.....and can be hard to judge on what little info we're able to provide in a post. Mostly I was just making sure you'd really thought about it, which obviously you have.

 

[DammitJanet]

well to be honest, Im still iffy on the PD vs the paid lawyer. This young man...he isnt even close to a teen, just committed armed robbery. This on top of various and sundry other offenses he already has on his record. I dont know if any of those other offenses are felonies but all of them will be looked at when it comes time to decide how to both try and sentence this current case. If that armed part of the armed robbery was a gun...oh boy.

In those circumstances I might ask around a bit...like the clerk of courts office and ask them if with cases of armed robbery did it make a substantial difference if the defendant had a public defender or a paid lawyer....and ask, where do they get their public defenders from? Can you see who is on the list. You might just find out that some off the best lawyers in your town happen to do some pro bono public defender work...lol.


Oh and on the jail calls...take a few weeks and then set up your phone so he can call you and set up a schedule. They have a company that they go through so you can buy so many minutes per however long you want it to last. The last place Cory was in used this place called paytell. It cost me like 25 bucks a month for him to call me and he called 2 or 3 times a week. Calls last 15 minutes. He learned really quick not to get irritable or I hang up.

Cutest call ever.....MOMMMMMAAAAAA.......I'mmm Watchin' American Idol JUST LIKE YOU!

In the background all the guys are hootin and hoolerin. Going Yo Momma...lmao

 

[DDD]

I think you're right on target and doing a great job of sifting through the options. If you are at peace with your choices it will make your life alot less stressful. in my humble opinion, you've stepped into a sad situation and are coping as well as can be expected. Doubting yourself won't be curative. Hugs. DDD

 

[sickandtired1]

More drama.....We just visited my son in jail for the second time. He has been there now almost 30 days. He is still waiting extradiction to another state. We did get a lawyer (I know maybe we shouldn't have) who is a friend and not charging us the full amount. In his legal opinion, we should bail him out and send him to rehab as he thinks this will help his case before the Judge. My son has not seen or talked to the lawyer yet, but in our visit he also requested that we bail him as he wants to go to rehab. Not sure if this is another way to continue to manipulate us or not. My husband and I want to be strong and not waver on our stand to not bail him out and let him suffer these consequences. However, I feel like I am starting to wobble and not sure what to do . I understand the lawyers theory about this considering the seriousness. My son is repenting but I am so afraid of making a mistake in this situation. Do you go with your momma gut or do you listen to wisdom of others?????

 

[DammitJanet]

So I am to understand that this crime took place in another state and he was picked up on the warrant in your state? Oh heavens.

No sweetie..dont bail him out because you have no way to make sure he wont run. He has no reason to stay put to be honest. Im sure the bail would be high and it would probably involve property. Dont do that to yourselves. The lawyer is enough.

This is going to be tough but nothing you could have done and no mental illness or psychiatric disorder is an explanation for this stuff. He wasnt psychotic at the time. Im bipolar and my son is bipolar and we didnt get a get out of jail free card when they gave us our diagnosis. Its just the way it is.

 

[DDD]

That is the million dollar question. Wish there was a simpler path. Still sending caring thoughts your way. DDD

 

[susiestar]

Janet is right. NO rehab can keep him there if he doesn't want to be there. And he may con someone into feeling bad for him and they would let him leave and have a headstart before they told the police. My bro was in jail on 3 felony charges, NONE of them as severe as armed robbery. He was drunk for all of them (2 different occasions) and he did go to rehab. He stayed but realized that several people who were there instead of jail conned the workers into giving them a head start (bail was such that leaving violated the terms and they had to go back to jail). The families that bailed them out and paid $9k for the rehab lost it ALL. One woman actually lost her house - and three days after bail was forfeited her son came back and couldn't figure out why they were so mad at him. didn't they know he couldn't stay then, but if they paid another 9k plus more bail he would stay this time?

Has your son EVER show ANY interest in being clean and sober when he was NOT in trouble? in my opinion it is NOT a real desire to get clean. Granted, my gfgbro did want to get clean after 2 weeks in the county jail, BUT it was the FIRST time he was ever in big trouble. He looked at the other guys there, ones who were on the revolving door system, and did NOT want to get old like that. He also has a VERY unique trait in that he cannot do anything halfway. Doesn't, and never did, know how. So he is the very very rare person who got off the substance the first time through. it has been close to ten years now and he is still going to meetings several tiems a week. You already KNOW your son won't stay. You KNOW he wants out so he has easier access to drugs. If he wants them int here, it is possible to get them.

I think the lawyer is giving advice on what is the best for his client but NOT what a parent would think is best for a difficult child. It would get a lower sentence if he went to rehab. Maybe. It also will cost thousands of dollars. BUT he will be on bail, cannot be held in a lockdown program, and WILL LEAVE AMA. You will be throwing away the bail and the cost of the rehab. You also will have your son out doing heaven knows what. He actually may not be as scared by a 5yr sentence as you think. It is really a 2-3 yr sentence in many places with time off for this and that. Then you have him out and unrepentant.

If your son wants to follow his lawyer's advice, then your son must find the money to pay his bail and rehab. You have spent enough on that. It really takes some addicts far longer than even 5 yrs behind bars to get clean.

Don't wobble. Tell the lawyer he means well but you simply cannot jeopardize your retirement to pay for his bad choices. Then go take a vacation and do something you would enjoy and destress doing. I am serious. yes, you may think he is in jail every minute, but at least you know where he is and that he isn't in some shooting house dead with a needle in his arm because his own bad choice or because he made someone mad or stole from them and they gave him a hot shot to kill him. THAT is what he is facing on the street. So jail/prison at least you know he is getting food daily (at least something, more than on the streets spending every penny on drugs) and has a roof over his head.

 

[toughlovin]

OK I would listen to your heart and mind and do what you feel with you can live with the best. Know that whatever you do you can't control his behavior or the outcome. I would not put yourself in jepordy in the process... so if losing the bail is going to put you into financial trouble then don't do it, if it won't then you can consider it.Our situation was somewhat similar although the crime was not as serious and my son was younger. My son was held without bail so bailing him out was not an option. However they did do a plea deal which we helped with which included him going to rehab, being on probation for 2 years and drug testing. I think those things have helped my son.... not as much as I would like mind you but he does seem motivated to stay out of trouble because he really really does not want to go back to jail.My gut would be to not bail him out but to agree to pay for rehab (if you can afford it) and tell the lawyer that so that if they come up with a plea agreement that could be part of it.

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont get the feeling that the situation is that you have to bail him out to get him to rehab is it? I think you can let him be transferred to the other state by the police no problem. Jails do it all the time. If the courts want to order rehab, thats up to them. Personally I would have zero to do with it. As I have read your posts, he has had several chances to do this before and it hasnt worked. Now is not the time that will stick simply because he is facing charges and it is most likely not going to mean a hill of beans to a judge. That only works on congressmen. He can go to AA in jail.

Again...I would never risk my future on a what if for my kids. My son is the most compliant kid on bail. I never had to worry a bit about him running. That was one thing I was completely assured of and could tell any bail bondsman. However, I never used my money to bail him out. I used his a time or two.

 

[Star*]

sick and tired.....

Hi there -

Just FYI -

THey are not allowed to receive stamps and envelopes in jail. Your letter will most likely either get returned to you OR be opened read, and either decided to be dumped or have the envelope and stamp taken out because you could pass illegal "blotter" or "powder'' type drugs to him.

So don't expect him to write back - If he is to write back? He will have to have money in his commisary and buy a stamp and envelope or trade in prison /jail for it. Snacks, other favors etc...are used for in jail letters with the postage ON the envelope already they don't allow inmates to have stamps.

Second of all - YOu have to be on his LIST in order for him to receive mail. And vice versa. If you aren't on his mailing list the jail house will not allow you to send him anything. Didn't know if you knew this or not. I know all of this is new to you, so I didn't want you to be disappointed. Most jail houses have ruiles that they post on a web site OR a handbook that you can get if you go during visiting hours. ALso when you go to visiting hours? Don't wear jewelry or buckles - etc. It slows down the process of getting in. When we went? YOu had to be patted down in the first doors, then wanded, then go through three metal detectors, and then into a locker room with a female guard for me ---change clothes into scrub type clothes and then wait on your inmate to come see you. It was really intense, but this was a state prison. They didn't play. The tables were wide, no touching, no whispering...no hugging. (adult prison) - Department of Juvenile Justice for the kids was almost as bad except we never had to change clothes - and we were allowed to hug when we left.

You've gotten a lot of great ideas here - I really hope you take my suggestion of going to a Cocaine Anonymous meeting and sitting in with some of the former addicts and listen to them talk. Narcanon is a good one too - but I got a lot MORE out of going to the meetings that had former and current drug abusers and how they viewed US (parents, wives, etc) and our enabling what it meant to them, how we were a joke...and not helping, what they wished we had done, it was really and eye opener for me and helped me TO DETACH strongly from my ex) The only way I got away was listening to those people tell their stories about what fools they thought we were. We being people that stay and continue to help them. Made me angry enough to leave.

Stay strong.

 

[DammitJanet]

Star....was it only the prisons where you had to be on the list to get mail because that hasnt happened to us, now we have had to be on the visitors list to go see him. He also had to decide who was going to call and considering I was paying for the money to my phone, it pretty much my phone. Not too many people are going to be willing to accept calls from jail not knowing how much it is going to cost. Now one jail Cory was in wouldnt allow any books or reading material in at all except for letters but they did allow me to buy him a TV for his cell because someone had busted out the one in the cell he was in. I used the money he had left at home to buy one for him. The other jail he was in was a nicer jail and allowed as many books as he wanted and also puzzle books. I personally think that one was better since reading is something they should encourage. Now they did check them out for content...lol.

 

[susiestar]

I do not think that most facilities CAN withhold mail no matter who it is from. How do you think serial killers get all those girlfriends? Tampering with the mail, including not giving it to an inmate, is a federal charge. If the difficult child is a minor they do the list thing so the parents can know who is contacting their child. Once the person is an adult no country or state jail or psychiatric hospital or Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is allowed to not give them their mail. period. The federal courts get REALLY involved in cases involving not giving prisoners mail. We learned this when Wiz was in the psychiatric hospital because one kid I did NOT want him to have contact with kept writing him letters. We had to get Wiz to turn over the mail after it was delivered to him. If it came to our home we could stop it, our right as his parents, but the psychiatric hospital had gotten in trouble doing that for a teen. Once they were out of the little kid wing (ages 3 and up), the kids got the mail and we could take it away when we came if we wanted. We just told the boy we didn't want to contact him that he was home and if we got letters from him we were going to get a restraining order.

 

[Nancy]

Mail can be sent to inmates in Ohio also as long as your know their inmate number.

Nancy

 

[sickandtired1]

Thank you to all for the comments. Updae: Today was our 3rd visit to my son in jail (every 2 weeks) Each time we come back I get more discouraged as all he wants to talk about is when are we bailing him out and how bad it is in jail. I even put $30 in his comissary and had to remind him to say thank you. Its all about what he needs. When will they ever grow up? To make matters worse for him, he found out he has an STD. At first I didn't believe him but when I asked what the jail was doing he told be antibiotics...so it must be true. Then to top it off, we received a court summons for a DUI he had over a year ago. He did lose his drivers lic for a year due to refusal for breath/blood analysis. So this is for the court date to decide his "punishment". I called the public defenders office (he can't since in jail!) and gave them his information. What a nightmare? This kid has a huge grave to crawl out of. I hope he can do it. I am still trying to resist "enabling" him. I am off to an Alanon meeting. I hope this helps!

 

[DammitJanet]

You are doing good. I dont blame you for the money. I would have done it too. Have many times. As far as the STD, ahh well, it happens. He will get well. He has all the time in the world to take his medications and not infect anyone! Look on the positive side. We have to take small nuggets when we can.

As far as the DUI, heh, it will be served while he is in so dont worry.

 

[toughlovin]

I am so glad you are going to an alanon meeting. I put money in the comissary acct when my son was in jail too...those are the small things you can do to show you love them without really enabling them. It is such a balancing act to figure out how not to enable them and yet still do things that show you care. You are doing great. Stay strong.... and maybe eventually when it finally hits him you are not bailing him out, and he really sits there longer with more time to think, maybe he will start to see how he got himself into this mess... yeah jail is no fun, no fun at all. And yeah they will treat him for the STD and like Janet said he can't infect anyone!!! I really hope the alanon meeting helps... it helped me immensely.