UPDATED:::CATA Group- New thread!

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HaoZi

Guest
The jury's sentence recommendation is just that - a recommendation. The judge does not have to hold to it. They can suggest death and he can sentence life, or they can suggest life and he sentences death (in cases of disagreement the former happens more often than the latter).

Florida does not have state income tax, they have higher gas and cigarette taxes.

What constitutes "proof" is up to the jury, so it's very subjective. Too much so at times.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
I haven't heard it all but it sounds like a lot of them were thinking that they couldn't find her guilty because they didn't know the exact cause of death! That makes no sense to me! If that were true, they would never find anyone guilty of a murder if they couldn't pin down an exact cause of death! It would seem that all you'd need to know is that the person is dead and that the medical examiner has ruled it a homicide! I really thought that the medical examiner's ruling means that they have determined it to be NOT an accidental death? How many times in a murder case do they end up finding out exactly what happened? Only two people know that - the murderer and the victim! I think these jurors were ill-informed once they got in there and then they rushed through it. And now a woman who killed her little two year old daughter is going to be walk out of that courthouse tomorrow, free as a bird!
 
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Mattsmom277

Active Member
I don't know that time or age is going to change my view in all honesty. to me, there was legal reasonable doubt even if outside the bounds of the guidelines for the court justice system, reasonable doubt etc people could easily conclude she murdered her daughter. I viewed this trial with a bend towards how jurors were meant to, by ignoring outside influences, things that were said (true things and untrue things) outside the court because they are inadmissable in court and therefore not to factor into a decision. And by that standard, I do believe the jury followed the letter of the law in finding not guilty even though it sounds to me like that juror was saying in their guts it hurt like hell to give that finding because they wanted to be able to find her guilty but the law was against them.

I also thing that all of the media comparisons to OJ's trials are unjustified, they were night and day with the exception that both resulted in not guilty verdicts that the public felt outrage about. There was a cause of death in that case, that was a glaring fact missing in this case and it means a LOT in a criminal case. I also don't buy that this was about them leaving quick for holidays and wanting this over etc so they just said not guilty to get on their booked cruises etc. I mean it goes the same way then that they could have said guilty just as quick for that reason so it makes no sense to assume wanting to go home meant they didn't weigh evidence and shirked their responsabilities. Especially given the fact they KNEW what hte public outrage at not guilty would be. I think it's a shame they are now on trial in the court of public opinion simply because they believe they had to follow the letter of the law and that meant the case wasn't solid enough for conviction. When I hear people accuse them of shirking their duties for selfish motives I think why on earth would anybody ever sit for jury duty again if that is the response to cases where the public is angry at the outcome. Why not public respect for their role in taking it serious but doing what the court required? Is it their fault if this case was such a mess and that the body wasn't found soon enough to determine cause of death? Seemed to me they expressed being sick to their stomaches that they were forced to find her not guilty based on the evidence available. Would we want to live in a world where people ignored the standard of proof required for convictions? Can you imagine the huge influx of innocent people filling the prisons on evidence that couldn't prove things? Based on people not liking the actions of a defendent? Imagine our difficult child's? How many members here know first hand how easy it would be for them to be convicted not on proof and evidence but on judgement of character and previous actions like stealing, lying, manipulating, living in a reality of their own making? We'd want there to be PROOF beyond a reasonable doubt.

I see how the public is upset at this verdict and how it hits the pit of the stomache of people who are able to use all of the information floating around out there to convict her in their minds. But the criminal case is a different story, it has requirements and safeguards in place and like it or not, its a system in place with good reason. SOmetimes that means people do get not guilty verdicts that go against the grain of all that feels right with the world and leaves people disgusted that the system seems to have failed. But the system didn't fail. The jury didn't fail. The sad reality is, this case was a mess due to evidence that was not conclusive PROOF to a court standard burden of proof. It happens every day and is upsetting obviously but isn't a miscarriage of the system, it's just a sad reality that not everyone can be proven guilty. 15 years from now I'll have the same belief on burden of proof as I hold today. That doesn't mean I don't also feel devestated to hear of people getting away with crimes that under a less burden they would be convicted of. I'm human too.
 
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HaoZi

Guest
Personally manner of death and the body dump tells a lot. I don't need exact cause. Waiting to see what they show on Primetime Nightline right now.
 
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HaoZi

Guest
#3 is not swaying my idiot jurors leaning, and if I hear her say "In this country," once more I'm going to throw something at my TV.
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
I do feel Mattsmom makes some good points. I also personally think it unlikely that the jury were motivated by wanting to come to a quick decision so that they could go on holiday, etc. At the same time... I heard the alternate juror speaking about why he feels they came to a not guilty verdict and if that is representative of the jury's thinking, it frankly wasn't very impressive. Muddled thinking, and just as emotional, really, as voting her guilty because that looks so obvious. I would blame the "system" more than the individuals in the sense that they presumably honestly did their best to follow the guidelines, or the guidelines as they understood them. But the fact that someone would not report their child "missing" and display no signs of grief or distress or active looking for the child to me is "evidence" that points to guilt and saying that someone could behave like this because they come from a dysfunctional family is simply stretching credulity.
For me, the problem in this case is that we do not know exactly WHAT Casey is guilty of - aggravated child abuse or premeditated murder. And because there is no evidence relating to manner of death the whole thing could collapse. It is a tragic and perfectly legal miscarriage of justice...
 

Mattsmom277

Active Member
Received the call from police just as S/O and I were preparing to watch the Barbara Walters program tonight. Is it viewable online? I'm completely unable to sleep and could use something to focus on other than my own life. I can't stream from the ABC website because it is only viewable if you are located in the US>
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
I watched the interview with juror no. 3 (weaning myself off the addiction slowly :)). I respect her and the other jurors' integrity in not wanting to sentence someone to death if there was insufficient incontrevertible evidence to do so. I do acknowledge the whole dilemma of how one could convict Casey when one did not actually know the crime that she had committed: what was she to be convicted of precisely and based on what evidence? I do understand how the jury felt bound to come to the verdict they did. At the same time, something does not add up. And I think it's that they did not find her guilty of child abuse. This is strange and inexplicable.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
I liked what Ashton said last night, if we want to honor Caylee do something for all the other children. Passing Caylee's law would both protect and gain justice for other children and will force her casey to remember every day of her life that there is a law out there named after her child who was not protected from her own mother.

It was interesting to hear Ashton talk about Lee and how they were completely blown away by his reaction and tears on the stand when in his deposition he acted completely indifferent about the news of his sister's pregnancy. The crying raised red flags for quite a few people. He does not believe George had anything to do with Caylee's disappearance.

Nancy
 

klmno

Active Member
Nancy, can you post a link again for that petition for Caylee's law again?

What do you think of what the actual jurors (not the alternate) are saying?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
It's becoming clearer with each juror that talks, that they did believe she was guilty but they wanted cause of death (which was not necessary and possibly that needed to be made clearer by the judge). This tells me we need to change some laws or instructions so this doesn't happen again. At least it's some consolation to me that they seem to validate our feelings so there is no wonder that so many people are upset.

Time for reform.

Nancy
 

klmno

Active Member
Did they read the jury instructions- things like definitions for "culpable negligence" and manslaughter, etc and think about that?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree klmno. Would love for someone to ask them that. It does point out we have a big problem here. I'm glad at least they didn't believe Baez's accidental drowning theory like he is going around trying to sell. Funny thing is he has no more evidence about that then the jurors had for the chloroform and yet he wants us to believe it.

Nancy
 

klmno

Active Member
Just based on one small snippet of what a juror said and not hearing everything she said or in the context of the entire interview, it souonded like some jurors were convinced Casey was innocent, I wonder if that led the other ones to think it was pointless to try to go further with deliberations iif a couple of them would never agree that there was any guilt at all....oh well, nothing we can do about it now.
 

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
I'm only seen Juror #3 on Nightline, I think it was. I got the impression that, while they may not necessarily have believed CA was innocent, they didn't feel they had enough evidence to convict.

A friend of mine had as her FB status...Accidents don't involve duct tape. Or chloroform.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
Sounds like Judge Perry gave her the most time that he possibly could. One year in jail on each count of lying to the police - to run CONSECUTIVELY (bless him for that!). Had it been concurrently, she would have been out partying tonight! But then she gets credit for time served and any credits she's earned in jail. Those get complicated and take some time to compute. I get the feeling that if there was any way he could have kept her from getting those credits for time served, he would have. He's also left it wide open for charging her the court costs and the costs incurred from all the wild goose chases she sent them on.

But I did LOVE seeing the expression on her face change when she found out she wasn't going home today!

And for the record, I bet the court costs are astronomical! Hopefully, between that and the lawsuits, she will not be able to profit financially from her daughters death!
 
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