Was told not to bring difficult child back to school.

[jannie]

I am so sorry.....I am sorry for you and sorry for difficult child....something similiar happened to us...we were given a "30 day suspension" when difficult child was four years old. I was beyond livid...I was working full time and had no where to send my difficult child....but in the end it was the best thing for difficult child. My difficult child did return to this school after the 30 school days on a modified schedule, but quite soon I realized that it just wasn't meant to be and I pulled him out before they through him out. We made it through the end of the year with in home help and found a program for the following year which provided intenstive emotional support.....

difficult child has been struggling there for the past several months....do you want him someplace that doesn't welcome him...do you think he wants to be there...they do not have the patience and/or aiblity or the training to let him be successful...you are a warrior mom...you will find a place for him

I know public school said they will not give support, but who knows what will happen when he shows up at their door with 25 other children. If he's a mess they will have to find a way to support him. Last year a new student came to our public school in the middle of the kindergarten year. The parents had been paying a 1:1 shadow plus the cost of a private tuition in his previous school....and this private school couldn't handle it. So off he went to kindergarten...and within one week all of the aide time that had been previously shared went into this room...and a few months later and IEP was in place and special educaiton supports were put into place...plus an intensive behavior intervention plan which was monitored every 15 minutes with reinforcement every one to two minutes... maybe just maybe public school will work....and if the general educaiton classroom is not the place for him then the school system will need to find the right program.

Hang in there....I am sorry...sending hugs...

 

[Fran]

Shari, no one can understand the stabs of pain we mother's feel when someone doesn't want our difficult child's. I know the despair. It never gets easier.

At this point, it's probably not the place for wee difficult child. He is obviously not thriving and now the staff is not very cooperative.

I hope the powers that be will help you find a more appropriate setting with staff that are more capable and difficult child can develop a more working relationship.

husband always said the biggest advantage to the public school system is that they can't readily kick you out. They have to work towards a resolution of the problems.

Hugs to both of you. I know you don't want to have to find an interim program until the IEP is done and he can attend a public school program.

 

[klmno]

Shari, I think you should call PEATC in the morning and get their advice and ask for an advocate in your area. Go ahead and schedule that full neuropsychologist, even though it might not happen for 18 mos. Start asking psychiatrist and therapist for written letters of what they think, if you believe it will help your case. Document what has happened sometime ovcer the holiday break. I agree with getting into a public school system at this point- but I don't think you should give up on whatever supports he needs at that system just yet. I haven't found an easy answer for my sone yet, but I am more than happy to share what info I have found and agencies that have helped, etc. If nothing else, it might save you some time on the phone trying to get a little direction. Hang in there- that's the main thing- no one can or will advocate for your son like you will and no one knows him like you do.

At this point, he probably needs a one-on-one just to help him transition and get over this experience. I'm not so sure he'll need a one-on-one forever.

 

[BestICan]

Just wanted to add my support. Our first preschool experience was in a Montessori school that simply didn't tolerate any variation from the docile, easy-to-manage child, which my difficult child was not. We didn't last there 3 months. It was awful every day he was there, and awful when we were encouraged to leave. It was his first experience with any kind of school and I was devastated that it went so awry.

Since then we've found varying degrees of success with preschools and teachers. It's all about the fit, the fit of the school's culture, and the fit of the particular teacher you have in the room, and whether she's in a good mood, or in her first trimester of pregnancy, or blah blah blah. I guess that's why having procedures documented and some accountability if procedures are not followed is an excellent idea. An advocate sounds wonderful, if you can get one.

I know how difficult it is to chase a diagnosis, and have certain services be dependent on that diagnosis.

Just throwing a probably ridiculous question out there, but would it be possible for you to hire your own private aide, rather than wait for a public school to provide one? I guess I'm thinking, if you do switch from private to public school, you could spend your tuition money on an aide. (Sorry if this is a silly suggestion; I'm not exactly sure how these things work...)

 

[KTMom91]

Shari, I'm so sorry it's escalated to this. Poor kid, he must be feeling like nobody wants him around. I'd aim for the public school and for whatever supports he needs. It hurts so much when our kids aren't welcome somewhere.

 

[susiestar]

Is it just me or are we all asking this Question??



Why was he in a room with 2 year olds? He is SIX!!!


That alone is not very appropriate of the school, and if they can't staff properly they should close. PERIOD - and ESP if they have teachers who like to traumatize kids who are not neurotypical!!!

This may sound cold, but write thesse "incidents" with this teacher who has traumatized him, AND the Montessori's lack of appropriate response in a short form. THEN CALL A COMMUNITY REPORTER FOR A NEWSPAPER.

Use the threat of this kind of article, complaint, etc... in whatever accrediting places, better business bureau, etc....

Use this to make the director back the 1 on 1 for your baby. This Director ALLOWED this teacher to traumatize your child to the point he couldn't handle the stress of being near her in a community parade and TOLD YOU SO - your son told you that at the parade! This is and exceptional communication from HIM, and your approach was great - but the remarks from the teacher were out of line TOTALLY and also were not appropriately addressed by the director.

Use all this stuff to push the director into backing EVERYTHING your son needs.

If you need help going through threads to pull stuff together I am sure some of us can help you draft things.

And I have a husband who is AMAZING at drafting proposals who is off work until after the New Year. I can put him to work once we get some info like the above incident.

Right now though, tell him Santa has a WHOLE DIVISION of special Elfs who are ALL 100% recommending him for the nice book. Because what matters to Santa is how we try, given what we have to deal with. And since he had to deal with Miss Nasty Teacher this year,

ALL OF OUR ELFS say he is on the Nice List.

If a private Message just for him from "Santa's Elf" would help, I will work to either email you from some email like that or PM you from a new name set up for that. I can work on that tomorrow some IF that would help him know he is NOT a bad child - THAT is a BAD TEACHER AND ADULT.

Give him Extra Hugs from Auntie Susiestar!!!

 

[klmno]

Why was he in a room with 2 year olds? He is SIX!!!

That is a very good question, Susie.

I'm going to bed now.

 

[Marguerite]

The one good thing out of all this is that I can probably get 3/4 of the staff at the Montessori school to testify that he NEEDS a 1-on-1. But the director won't, and that's gonna hurt the cause.

Surely after this, the director will officially acknowledge the need?

A suggestion, Shari - I think it's highly likely that once either of those two good teachers left, the bad teacher tried to do things the way SHE feels are right ie HER way (or the highway; and it turned out to be the highway).

So what I suggest - use this as leverage. This shouldn't have happened. It was not only forseeable, you had warned specifically against allowing this woman to have access to your child. I do find it very difficult to believe that she would succeed where no other teacher could. Sorry - that won't wash. An able-bodied male couldn't do it? Then SHE shouldn't have tried. Sorry, you can physically pick up every other child and carry them out of there, rather than lay your hands on a probably Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child, especially one who is raging.
So I would have a very hard talk to the director.
"Madam, I did tell you that there were problems with this teacher and her daughter. We have had problem after problem, in every single case there has been a connection with these two teachers where one or both has escalated the problem to the point where he has been out of control. The two teachers who DO follow the recommendations I have made and who have independently found ways to get good performance out of him, have been repeatedly undermined and devalued by this woman. They had him working well. She comes in and suddenly it's crisis. I warned out about this. And now I'm told he can't stay at this school. As you know, the alternative is the public school. Now, if YOUR school, where he has had a 1:1, still says they can't handle him, then the VERY LEAST YOU OWE THIS CHILD is to officially inform the public school that a 1:1 is required. There has been a diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) made. I'm sorry you personally do not agree with this, but frankly, more qualified heads than yours have seen fit to make this diagnosis."

Continue with, "If you had listened to me to begin with and acted on my complaints and concerns, we wouldn't be in this mess. But you didn't, and we are. And now my son is set up to fail, if you do not make this recommendation to the public school. They are expecting this, they have an IEP in draft already (with the possibility that this would happen, since we were beginning to get repeat problems due to this teacher continuing to stick her oar in even after I requested she stay away from my child)."

You get my drift. If you have to use blackmail, then I would take in with you, and hand over at this point, a formal notice of intent to make formal complaint against this teacher (and maybe the school?) for their failure to keep your son safe and their failure to follow through on your requests for investigation of these incidents.

This ghastly teacher traumatised your son. It's no wonder he became reactive in her presence - anybody would. A Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid, especially. He shouldn't be punished for this teacher's bullying.

We had an incident like this with difficult child 3 - again, teacher-triggered. It escalated to the point where the school was assembling in the hall for a concert and difficult child 3 began throwing chairs at people. They DID NOT try physical restraint (that would have been a disaster) but instead they got the other kids out of there and called his class teacher and his aide, who could handle him. They talked him down until he was calmer, then he was taken to a quiet room while the rest of the school went back into the hall and watched the concert.

I really hate to think how bad it would have gotten, if they had tried physical restraint.

When you get a chance, if you haven't already, read "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time". it's not a how-to book, it's a novel and fiction, but told from the point of view of a fifteen-year-old Aspie. It's brilliant at showing you exactly why you need to know each particular kid, rather than trying to apply a blanket approach to all with that diagnosis.

Maybe tattoo on their heads in letters of fire, "Do not apply a physical restraint to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child". Unless they already know that it's the best option FOR THAT CHILD. And it would be a rare Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child who that would work for, especially if the person applying the hold is the one person the kid wants to get away from.

No wonder he was too strong for people. That's what adrenalin does.

And Shari, I hope you understand that I'm not being critical of you when I say that this teacher has you conned - this is a problem I think for all of us, when we're struggling to sort out schooling, diagnosis, placement, all at once and we're being hassled by a bully in the picture somewhere. We're vulnerable, because we're desperately trying to get information from experts. Anyone who is an alleged expert in the field, is someone we will be primed to believe. I've been there done that myself, often. And seen it in others.

Marg

 

[Marg's Man]

Marg said

No wonder he was too strong for people. That's what adrenalin does.

When we were students we were given the example of just HOW strong a person acting under the influence of excess adrenalin (such as brought on by stress) when were told of the the otherwise ordinary mother who LIFTED HER CRASHED CAR off her trapped child.

No wonder an adult man could not hold him; and this shiela could? Sorry - that kite just won't fly. When will you be after this mob again? At least they won't have six week break to hide like ours would.

Marg's Man

 

[SRL]

Shari, I'm so sorry. I know things haven't been right for your difficult child for a long time.

In situations like this, public school districts can put in temporary measures (homebound instruction, shared aide, etc) to fill in the gap before an emergency IEP meeting can be called. Since NCLB the laws in many states aren't so cut and dry that they can only provide services to those with a formal IEP.

 

[artana]

Shari,
I'm not sure what state you're in, so my advice may be wrong. In PA, where I'm at, the public school will not provide 1-on-1 because there are state programs that pay for wraparound (i.e. Therapists at the school 3 hours a day or more, behavior therapists, etc) for children who are special needs. The state assistance is available no matter what your income levels are. So schools do not bear the costs of the 1-on-1, but it means as a parent we do a heck of a lot more paperwork and red tape.
My advice would be to find out if something like this exists in your state. It's possible that the public school won't pay because there is another avenue for this. Like I said, it varies from state to state.
That teacher is a jerk of the worst kind. Anyone who can think that way about a child has no business being around children. I think you are right to raise the issue and push to find out what triggered it.:/ I also think that some of the other advice about the Montessori might be right. My oldest son, who has very mild autism, is having a hard enough time in a Charter school because of the lack of rigidity in the schedule. It would be a lot worse at a Montessori.

 

[jal]

Shari,

I want to add my support too, as I have been there. difficult child has been through 5 daycares (currently has none) and started with public school and now is in an out of district therapeutic program where he is thriving. I too would go the public school route. We had difficult child evaluated around the age of 4 by the SD. They said he was fine and would not provide any early intervention. We are lucky enought that we live in a small town and were able to keep contact with them around every 6 months before difficult child started kindergarten. We met shortly before he started and the Dir of Pupil Services said "well maybe we can do a 504" and we told her he needs an IEP. We agreed to give it a month to see how he does and we warned them that we would be back before months end to write an IEP. Well, guess what? We were there within 3 weeks. They gave him a 1 on 1 and other provisions. This year they realized they did not have the supports in place to deal with him and offered out of district placement in a program of our choice. Be it the most heart wrenching and saddest decision we ever made it seems to be exactly what he needed. He is 6 and his math and reading have just exploded in this new program. He is starting to get his education, which has always been a huge reason that husband and I have fought so hard for him. He is a very smart kid, but could not function in a large group as he has a lot of sensory issues on top of the mood dis.

Now I know from many accounts here that it is not easy to always get what you need from the SD. We were very lucky to have a great group of educators and administrators to work with so our experience was nothing short of supportive and positive, but I would agree that maybe sending him to public school and alerting them ahead of time that an IEP will probably be evident may be your best bet to getting him the 1 on 1 he needs. Let them see how he is. Let it become apparent to them that the child needs additional support. The h*ll with the Montessori school saying that a 1 on 1 provides a stigma. Our difficult child's need help from anywhere they can get it. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get what you need for your child be it whichever route you go.

 

[BusynMember]

In our state, private schools don't have to do a thing to accomodate our kids. That's why I don't like them. And the school districts only need to provide help if the kids go there. It's cut and dried. Check your state laws, but I do think public school is best for our kids. They often DO make a big difference. My son has been helped so much ONLY in public school. You need an Advocate though and probably a better, more explanatory diagnosis. Good luck!

 

[Shari]

The private aide is not a silly idea. I just don't think I'll find anyone who will work for what we were spending on tuition. But its an avenue we are looking at.
***
I also must clairfy that the public school is the one saying the 1-on-1 creates a "stigma" for the child and is why they weren't willing to provide it. Now I have 3/4 of the staff at this school who will back the position that he needs the 1-on-1, whever he goes; but the director is one of the 2 teachers that can handle him well, and she would probably be the one speaking on behalf of the Montessori school to the public school, and I doubt she'll adopt the rest of the staff's position, but Marg, I like your suggestion and I will try it if I need to.
***
I can't say that I know exactly why he was in with the 2 year olds. All the kids were together when I got there. It was during the after-school program and the ice storm was shutting everything down early, so it was all a little chaotic. But that's something to find out, too.
***
I know it wasn't the case yesterday, but sometimes the other teacher that works well with him works with the younger kids, and if another teacher or aide is having trouble, they will send him in with her where he will "help" her. He has NEVER been agressive to little ones before. Ever. Its always been a fear, but he has always maintained around them. This aspect alone is upsetting.
***
The director has 2:53 to call me, then I will call her. Hate to, on Christmas eve, but I need to get the ball rolling NOW on damage control for wee difficult child and where we're going come Jan 5. Even if she will take him back, I don't think he should go there; on the flip side, he needs closure with his friends and to leave the school on a positive note...
***
The immunologist has been using the overnight pulsox again and just called to say his O2 sats are still dropping very low thru the night, so we are heading down that avenue again, also.

 

[Shari]

I know he needs a better diagnosis, what I don't know, tho, is where to go to get it.
***
And I don't think I'm waiting til noon to call the director. I think I'll call now. It was an arbitrary time, anyway, and I have time right now.

 

[Shari]

Sorry, Susie, I forgot to answer you about the letter. Wee difficult child got a letter from Santa Claus yesterday in the mail (from SC, IN) and it helped. We'll work on the nice book, and I think he'll be ok since he's not in school now, but thanks for the offer, and, of course, if you just want to, I'm sure he'd enjoy another letter.

Now if I can just keep mother in law from bringing it up.

 

[susiestar]

Shari, what does the low overnight pulse ox mean? I am asking because it is something my docs wonder about, but I have no clue what it means and the sleep doctor won't talk. He is a PITA - has the data, but wants a $400 test that insurance won't cover because it will only give data he already has from the sleep study. They would do another sleep study, but not an in-home pulse ox test.

Any info after the holiday is appreciated.

I am glad he got a nice Santa letter. Does he need to "accidentally" see the Naughty/Nice list with Miss Nasty Teacher and Her Nasty daughter's names on the Naughtiest list?

LOL!

Hugs.

 

[Shari]

I'm not sure how to answer your question, so forgive me if I'm blabbering, but the pulsox reads respiration rate, heart rate, and the level of oxygen saturation (O2 sat) in your blood stream. Ideally, your O2 sat should be 100%, but everyone will fall to 98 or even 95 sometimes.

Anything that stays above 88% is acceptable, tho they want it to stay closer to 100%.

Wee difficult child's is falling to the high 60s-low 70s repeatedly thru the night, which means something is happening to impeded his ability to breath or use oxygen. He may have apnea, where he stops breathing, or possibly enlarged adenoids which physically obstruct his airway and prevent him from breathing, or....

And anytime the body is deprived of oxygen, its additional wear and tear on the body and results in less restful sleep.

Actually, the symptoms of sleep apnea in a child are very similar to those of children with other causes of behavior disorders. I refuse to rule out his sleep problem as a possible large-impact issue with him - we just can't figure out what's happening (adnoids, seizures where he stops breathing...etc - or why).

Does that help?

And I like your idea of overhearing her name be on the naughty list...gives me ideas.

 

[klmno]

Shari, the more I read about this, the more ridiculous it sounds to me that one teacher can snap off on a day when nothing is going as normal and say that difficult child can't come back. I'm sitting here visualing something happening at my house- like we have a horrible storm, so we lose power and have to hole up in one room together with the dogs and nothing to do so difficult child starts arguing and has a snotty attitude and becuase of that, I decide he can no longer live at home. OK, so maybe I get to a point where I lash out and say something to him in the heat of the moment, I think that would warrant a pow-wow after everything has calmed down and gone back to normal. I can't believe that this would stick with anyone rational. And as another poster pointed out, it might serve in your favor if you communicate to them that "well, this proved what you've been trying to tell them"- in a more tactful way than those words.

 

[Shari]

You're right, K, I really feel the director will take him back.

However, its a small school. While we can limit contact with this particular teacher, he can't altogether avoid her presence. He was already traumatized by her, and now he has heard her lecture, for 20 minutes, that she and the rest of the staff don't want him there. I'm not sure there's anything left to salvage there.

Even if they'll take him back, I don't think he can go.

At this point, I am approaching it that he will nto be returning there. I will see what they say, but that's my direction right now. I am going to ask to be able to bring him in - supervised - for a morning or afternoon, have a "normal" day, a treat, and a "goodbye" party like the other kids do who leave there, and let him leave on a more positive note with some closure for everyone. Unless they're gonna promise me some pretty sweet deals, I'm moving forward with finding a new place for him to go.