Well, that didn't last long :(

[Lil]

Well...there's been no stealing for over a year. Granted, he was gone 10 months and was basically "stealing" from us when he didn't attend classes for 10 months and lived on our money instead of getting an education...but that is not exactly the same thing. He has his own tuition loans to start paying soon. But, we told him before college that we'd send his butt to jail if the stealing happened again and when he came back he was told the same thing.

As for the job...we'll see. He's said he's going in tomorrow. He didn't get the doctor's note so the chips will fall where they may. They have a point system...3 in a given number of months and you are out. He now has 1, assuming his call-in was sufficient. If he needs the doctor's note (I did not see that in the policy manual) he's out. If he doesn't go in tomorrow...he may as well call and just quit. We'll see. He seems rather sure he's going in tomorrow. He's going to take a couple Benadryl tablets about 7:30 to help him sleep. I'm not a fan of that, but if it helps him get his sleep schedule right a few days won't hurt him. I will say he's not usually an early riser, so 5 a.m. is going to be hard until he's used to it, but he has to, to keep this job. He has to be there at 6. It was supposed to be 7, but overtime is mandatory and they put him on the overtime schedule. He's got to suck it up, pure and simple.

Drugs? I don't know. The stealing was definitely about drugs, but he's not stealing from us now. The factory does random drug tests, so I was liking that part of this job. Of course, we all know not everything shows up.

She was crying when she told me.
"And all that time you wanted to trust me so much," she said.

Isn't that the truth. We've told him over and over, "You want us to trust you, you have to be trustworthy. Prove it to us." They want trust. They want us to be proud of them. They do nothing to earn either one.

by the way, we didn't really tell him to call in or call the doctor...well, maybe the doctor. But in the end, it was his choice. The consequences are his.

If he loses this job, I guess we'll give him a deadline - probably a week - to get another. He doesn't want to work fast food? Too freaking bad.

Thank you all for your kind words and empathy. I can use them.


Sometimes I think it's so tiring for me because I really was such a GOOD kid. Good grades, worked summers, respectful, helped around the house, went to college, no sex until 22! I did drink a bit...my 15th birthday was quite a drunken party...but that was it and where I grew up everyone did it. Never missed work or school or stole a penny because of it.

 

[GuideMe]

MWM, it's ok no worries. And believe me I know. I have lived near poverty lines my whole life and when my daughter would take money here and there, it caused major upset with in me. It is so wrong to steal. I was just trying to get a gauge of the situation by asking.

 

[Childofmine]

I am sorry Lil. It is awful to get your hopes up only to have them crushed. Hang in there. We understand and care about you. Try to take care of yourself and create some space and distance for a few days before you try to figure out what is next.


Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Echolette]

Lil,

my heart aches for your disappointment, frustration, anger, pain, and worry. That was quick too! It is so heartwrenching that our difficult child's have no faith in themselves at all, and no resilience to stick out even a second day of work. I understand. I've been there. I am sorry that you and your son are there today.

Echo

 

[BusynMember]

Lil...you spoke to my heart and I so get how you feel.

Although I was a rather difficult kid (rages, overly sensitive, depressed, struggled in school) in my heart I was a really good kid too. I would never treat anyone the way my son treats others and me. I never broke the law or try to con people. I was a virgin until age 20, the year of my first marriage...lol. I don't know anyone who was a virgin when she got married except me! I hated drugs and didn't even drink. I tried so hard to be good. My son was the opposite. Not only was he in trouble from the time he was quite small, but he was proud of his incredible shoplifting skills and got tremendous kudos from his thug friends that he could do it repeatedly and never get caught. I am quite sure he committed crimes and never got caught. He has hinted at it and we have found evidence...I don't understand his mindset.

So I am holding your hand, understand you, and feeling your pain. Hugs to you.

 

[Lil]

It's 8:47 as I write this. He took a couple Benadryl at 7:30 and says he'll be showering and getting ready for bed at 9. He did talk about how hard it is to get up so early and I told him it would take time to get used to it...he might be dragging his butt for a week or so, but he'll get used to it. He was pretty "up" tonight, talking about how much money he'll have on his first paycheck.

We'll see what tomorrow will bring. I'm done thinking about it for now. I thank you again for helping me through a rough day.

 

[in a daze]

Hi Lil. I feel your pain. I just KNOW that you'll set your alarm to make sure he's up.

And if u do, you won't be alone. My son lost his job for being late twice a week after he started. He called the manager and begged for his job back, put an action plan in place we suggested that involved setting two alarms, sent us a text to say he was up (or we would call him to make sure) . We did this for several weeks. Also had him text his schedule to us. We gradually let go of the control and he is now apparently getting himself to work and on time for the past 6 months.

Barring substance abuse and mental health issues, I think a lot of our difficult child 's have weak executive function skills and do better with some direction (that is, if they're in a place that they are willing to take advice and direction).

 

[Lil]

I just KNOW that you'll set your alarm to make sure he's up.

Yes. Yes I did. LOL He went to bed a bit after 9 last night, my husband and I a bit before 11. We're laying there and I just can't get my brain to quit running various scenarios where my husband comes in at 6 to tell me our son is still at home. So I asked hubs if he minded and set my alarm for 5:15. (I usually set it for 6:30! And today I don't go in until 9!) I was never going to get to sleep if I didn't.

Anyway, he was up. I asked him through the door if he needed anything and then told him to have a good day and went back to bed. When hubs alarm went off at 5:40 (his usual time) I had him go check too. 5 minutes later I'm like..."He hasn't left yet!" but just as I said that he called bye through the door.

So...he's at work I guess. He hasn't come home so I assume he didn't get fired. Of course, he could be running around and not coming home...how awful that your brain goes there, huh? But I expect that one day...even the second day...isn't enough to get you fired.

And I'll say this. 5 a.m. is really darn early! I'd have never thought that overtime on a 7-3 shift would mean going in early! When he told me he was going to be working Occupational Therapist (OT) I asked how late! If they put him on book fairs (this is a children's book factory) he'll have to be there at 5! I wouldn't want that job.

Then again, that's why I went to college for 7 years. He'll live.

I, myself, am enjoying my coffee and having a nice breakfast before I go into my nice, secure government office job.

 

[in a daze]

Keep us posted!

 

[Lil]

So far so good. Heard from him at noon. He said he'll be working Saturday too. Would have been time and a half for 9 hours if he hadn't called in. He's not thrilled, but reminding him of the amount of the check helps. So...I think we'll take it a day at a time.

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[Lil]

So doing this quick. He broke the rule on the car. Went to a "friends" house. Why? I bet MWM could guess. To get some form of weed. Says the guy let him down and it was all for nothing.

There was quite a lot of drama. His. He was totally freaking out. Shouting. Trying to get us to talk, yell, fight. We didn't allow ourselves to be pulled in. When he was relatively calm we had a talk. He hates working...big surprise. He's gone from sitting on his butt 24 hours a day to doing factory work 9 hours a day. He's exhausted and stressed and I personally believe he did this, at least subconsciously, to get caught, lose the car, lose his job.

No. Please don't judge, but we aren't, at this point, taking the car. The job is 8 miles away and he's too new to know anyone to give him a ride. I am not inclined to get up that early and drive him. I am not going to give him a reason to quit. So, we will be checking the milage daily. If it happens again, he will lose the car and perhaps his home.

One reason we took this route is he's agreed, actually suggested, counseling. He needs it. If only to perhaps learn some coping mechanisms. I wish I could describe it better, but I do get the feeling he's close to a change. He's actually open to this. And we'll give him that chance.

Rough night.

Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app

 

[Lil]

Finally home and will add some details. Husband GPS'd the kid today and saw where he was, which was how he got caught. He had been warned we would be checking on his mileage and GPS so he had to know. He tried to lie, then was told how dad knew and the hysterics started. When I got home I heard him shouting from the driveway. My husband was being quite calm. He tried his best to get us to "talk" to him. Shouting, throwing his arms around, slamming doors...while he insists he wasn't trying to start a fight he clearly was. We simply refused to talk to him until he calmed down. It took some time but he did enough that we could talk. Much was said, a good part of it was that he doesn't want to work (although he acknowledges he has to), he said his friends wouldn't leave him alone and talked him into it (although he acknowledges this is his fault and he made the choice) he said his friends are all losers and idiots and etc....but that he doesn't have anyone else.

I told my husband, he's like an abused woman who keeps going back to the man who beats her, but he's all she knows and all she has. His friends use him. They talk him into stuff and he goes along and he's the one who gets in trouble. He's always been that way. They do pretty much nothing for him and he uses his (our) car and his money (when he has it).

I'm not making an excuse. I wish I could explain it better.

Anyway, at one point he went on and on about being tired and stressed out and his friend kept bugging him, etc. and he hadn't smoked in quite a while and and so he went. We talked a bit about finding some other way to handle stress, etc. My husband said, "Now I know you aren't interested in counseling, but maybe you could use some of the time you spend on the internet looking for ideas to help with the stress." My son's response was to say to get him into counseling. We told him to sleep on it. He didn't want to. He said that he just wants to stop feeling the way he does. He wants things to get better. Then he cried a bit. He took the battery out of his phone so his friends can't call him. (Of course, we can't GPS him either...but we can check the mileage.)

We talked some more. We eventually had everything calmed down. Anyway, hubs and I talked and came up with what I said above. I asked my son again, when he was completely calm, if he wants to try counseling again. He said he does.

I told my son, and it's true, that this job is going to be rough on him. He's never worked and always been rather sedentary and suddenly he's doing manual labor from 6 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., and today was told it's going to be 6 days a week...maybe even 7...mandatory overtime. I actually think, whether subconsciously or not, he wanted to get caught and wanted to lose the car. When we were refusing to talk to him, he kept yelling things like, "Just yell at me. Take the car. Ground me. Do something." If we took the car and he couldn't get to work, he'd have an excuse to quit. Oh, it would be his fault, but he would fail just the same and would have an excuse. It 's like he likes to fail...or at least he sets himself up for it.

We have to have a plan for if it happens again. So far we told him he has it the rest of the week and we'll figure it out then. I think I'd at least for a while get up and take him to work if it comes to that...he can find his own way home. My husband works near there and gets off 1/2 hour later...he can wait. We haven't said any more tonight. By the time we got home from the second job, he was ready for bed and the last thing I want is to give him insomnia worrying about stuff...we'll talk tomorrow.

 

[Lil]

I told my husband, he's like an abused woman who keeps going back to the man who beats her, but he's all she knows and all she has. His friends use him. They talk him into stuff and he goes along and he's the one who gets in trouble. He's always been that way. They do pretty much nothing for him and he uses his (our) car and his money (when he has it).

I hope I didn't insult or upset anyone with this analogy. I myself have been in an abusive relationship. My ex never hit me, but he was so controlling I wasn't "allowed" to carpool my hour and a half commute to work if there was a man in the car. I wasn't allowed to go to the company picnic, because it was a "social" activity and not work. He threatened to burn the house down with me in it. He threatened to kill himself if I left. I know it's not the same thing. But, in my mind I keep thinking of why I stayed (I just didn't know how to get away. I just kept hoping it would get better) and then I think of my best friend, who dated cheating jerk after cheating jerk - literally every single man in her life (and there were a lot) until her current husband, (I hope) cheated on her. She kept going back to the same type of man over and over because she really thought that it was better than having no one.

So again, I hope I didn't offend anyone with the analogy. It's the closest I can come to why someone would continue to hang out with a group of people that they consider idiots and losers and who use them and let them down over and over.

He's back at work today. I did not set my alarm. My husband gets up at 5:40 and I figure if the kid isn't ready to go by then, he can be late and take the points. That will be his choice too.

 

[Echolette]

Lil,

I think you are making the best decisions you can under the circumstances. It sounds like your son is "slow to launch", and is struggling with this transition. YOu are right, it is hard to start work, it is exhausting, and he doesn't sound like he is particularly resilient. Your empathy and limited support of him with boundaries in place sounds healthy. Keep posting and keep it up.

Echo

 

[Lil]

Thanks Echo.

You know, I always thought "Failure to Launch" was just a movie title. I just Googled it and came up with this:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...rce/201210/failure-launch-male-and-stuck-home

The parts that struck me were these:

After living under a parent’s protective shelter for almost two decades, most people can't wait to move on. It's a developmental moment as basic as a first-grader getting on the bus. There’s some fear; but the thrill of independence trumps everything.
Yet, many twentysomethings today, especially young men, are having trouble with this transition. And, now its public record after David Brooks of The New York Times wrote a compelling piece called "Why Men Fail." Our boys (and some girls) seem to be lacking what is needed for contemporary success—while our girls seem to be doing great.

Adult life beckons, but seems out of their grasp.
I come to think of these guys as Avoiders.

Case Example: After dropping out of college, Zachary now stays at home and does nothing productive. He has no regular job or even a driver's license. He works a little, but for the most part spends his time at home slacking....
Avoidant behaviour is a strategy for failure....
Research has shown that the concept about future is important because it elicits a cognitive representation of the prospective self and directs future-oriented behavior. However, for Avoiders, thinking about the future is simply daunting.
An Avoider uses an avoidant defense mechanism to put off to tomorrow what needs to be done today. He games himself into thinking that all will be fine—tomorrow. So, he smokes weed to cut down on anxiety; plays video games to fill up his time and “connects” on Facebook for endless hours, while living in the room that he grew up in and should have grown out of by now....
The Avoiders that I see have developed a bad habit; which has lead to an injury to their self esteem. Deep inside, they doubt if they really can be independent, take risks and individuate in the increasingly competitive society.
Despite protests to the contrary, Avoiders stay children, dependent on their parents while remaining in their comfort zones. Their avoidance in thinking about the future greatly reduces their motivation to work on long-term goals, and they turn to seek comforts from instant gratification.

Fits my kid to a T. He's got other problems, no doubt, but I think a lot stems from this.

 

[Lil]

Not sure why I keep posting over and over, I guess just to vent.

He worked his skinny butt off today. His job was stacking big boxes of books on pallets. It was actually kind of funny last night, he was going on about how his best friend (not really any more...but his oldest friend for sure) who works there, told the manager he wanted to work with him, and got him stuck on the worst job in the warehouse and now he was going to have to do this awful job and it was his friends fault. I finally said, "What exactly did J do to get you on this job? Maybe he just wanted to work with you. How did this happen?" His response was, "J asked if I wanted to work with him and I said yes. So he told the manager and now I have to."

Typical...all his friend's fault, when he was asked and said yes. Picture the eye roll.

He's SO sore. His back, legs and arms are killing him. I gave him some ibuprofen and told him to take a hot shower.

I also told him the car rule and that we will not be his excuse for losing the job. If he screws up, he loses it. His dad may sell it. I will get up and drive him to work. I also told him if he quits or gets fired, he'll have one week to find another job, or we'll kick his butt out. Now we aren't unreasonable. If he's hitting the pavement and really looking, we might give him a bit more time...but he'll have to show us more than he ever has before. This did not make him happy...

Anyway, he still seems willing to give counseling a try. I got on line and the phone today at work and found one that takes out EAP and insurance. Called her, gave her the low-down and got an appointment. (I had to because of the EAP.) He has to call her back. He isn't doing it tonight. He says he's too tired and just really doesn't want to deal. It's okay, he can do it tomorrow. He has to do it himself though, she wants to talk to him before his appointment, which is next Monday. It's hard to find counselors with night hours! Still keeping my fingers crossed he'll click with her. It's impossible to tell of course and we can try others. We'll see I guess.

 

[Lil]

Horrible morning.

I woke up at 5:30, had to "go" so got up. Opened the door. His light was on. I yell, "Are you up?" He had been and apparently fallen back asleep after getting up and turning on his light. He freaked the hell out. Running back and forth, yelling he was going to be late. Couldn't find any clean clothes. Couldn't eat breakfast. Says he'll get fired if he's late again...so apparently he's been late before this week...I knew he wasn't leaving early enough. He was just panicked, shouting, throwing things, running back and forth. I didn't want him to drive but that was worse when I suggested I drive. If he gets pulled over I suspect he'll go to jail given the mood he's in. Told his dad if he gets fired today he'll just kill himself tonight. Wishing I hadn't told him we'd kick him out if he didn't have a job in a week. He didn't have time to even take some hot pockets to nuke for lunch, because apparently the time it takes to take them to the break room would definitely make him late. So he'll have nothing to eat all day.

It's his fifth day. He missed one and now this. This was a bad first job for anyone. But I don't know. I feel helpless. I feel tired. Of course it's 6 a.m. There's no way he made it to work on time. He may get fired today.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil...it really isn't that hard to start working, even if you haven't before. My son with autism is an extremely hard worker, but he has anxiety and is very nervous around new people yet he has worked since high school, often at very strenuous jobs. He is overweight and not in good shape, but he didn't complain about it and made sure he was up in time to go. And, of course, all of us have had a first job.

Some people don't want to work so they exaggerate how terrible it is. Being parents, we feel bad. Nobody wants to think our grown children are full of aches and pains. But it does not sound like your son has a difficult job that requires high level skills. He can do the job if he wants to do the job. He can also flip burgers or ring up sales in a gas station. If he doesn't like to get up early, they have night shifts at gas stations and restaurants.

I hope he keeps this job. It is a step in the right direction for developing character and having his own money.

Hugs and have a great day.

 

[Lil]

MWM I know he CAN do the job. I'm honestly not making excuses. Physically he can do it. But I also acknowledge that most people work part time, summers, etc., and kind of get used to it. You have to admit, going from spending your whole life sedentary and sleeping late to suddenly working on your feet 9 hours a day, six days a week would be a shock to anyone. So it's not that he can't, I'm more worried that he'll just kind of implode. He's having such a hard time adjusting and he's never, ever been good at that...literally from preschool, when he'd have a meltdown when it was time to go from finger painting to story time. I just really wish he'd picked 2nd shift. Going in at 3 and getting off at 11 would have been so much better for him. I wonder if he could ask to change? It might be bad, since he's already kind of screwing up...but maybe if he went to a manager and said, "I'm having a really hard time with this schedule. I'd work better on 2nd shift."

But my biggest worry at the moment is how he reacts to things. He just explodes. He'd have gotten out the door more quickly this morning if he hadn't panicked. This kid has GOT to learn how to cope with things and I don't know how to teach him. I've tried his whole life. I'm at a loss.

I can't find him on GPS, which is normal as there's no signal in the warehouse. I was actually looking to see if he was at a friend's or something. So...once again it's one day at a time. Assuming he isn't told not to come back at the end of the shift, I'll try suggesting he get his clothes together tonight and such, so he knows what he's got to wear I guess. I feel like he's five and I'm starting all over.

 

[Childofmine]

Lil, hang in there. Try to get some distance from the day to day drama. It is what it is, and it is what it will be. And there truly isn't a single thing you can do to make it work or keep it from working. Remember that. Really.

we will not be his excuse for losing the job.

Well, you may be his excuse, and you can't control that either, but you are not his excuse and you know that, and we know that, and deep down, he knows that.

I didn't want him to drive but that was worse when I suggested I drive. If he gets pulled over I suspect he'll go to jail given the mood he's in. Told his dad if he gets fired today he'll just kill himself tonight. Wishing I hadn't told him we'd kick him out if he didn't have a job in a week

Come on Lil. This is what we do: we react to what they say and do. And then...there are two crazy people instead of just one. Take a step back. I know it's really hard---I really do know---because when they finally do something potentially fruitful we get so freakin' engaged, enmeshed and involved. We want SO MUCH for it to work. I know this is how you feel, because this is how we all feel, Lil. We start thinking about what WE can do to help make it work. That is our first mistake.

Right now, my 25-year-old son is working 32 hours a week at a McDonald's. He's been there 7 or 8 weeks. He is homeless. He goes to work from sleeping outside or sleeping in a hotel room with a bunch of other people when possible. He rides a bike. He rides the bike from downtown where he sleeps outside somewhere, until he's rousted up and out from his sleeping place by the police from time to time, to be at work at 5 a.m. He rides the bike past the entrance to my neighborhood.

Sometimes---not often anymore---but from time to time, I can't believe the surreal nature of the fact that my son is completely homeless and I am living in a 3000 square foot house by myself. But if I step in now, even when it APPEARS that he is trying to change his own situation---I will rob him of the learning HE MUST DO---he must do---he must do---in order to become a functioning, contributing adult.

Yesterday he called and wanted a blanket. He left his blanket in a motel and when he went back to get it, it was gone. So I took him a blanket, and he gave me $200 to keep for him, and he talked about applying for help with deposits for an apartment from a nonprofit here who helps homeless people. I saw his arm where he had been stabbed---it looks like it is healing but he hasn't been back to the doctor.

I had to sit there, and listen, and say nothing, offer very little, except the blanket. I didn't give him any money. I didn't ask about going to the doctor. I didn't try to fix any of his life. It's taken me so long to get to this point and now I know---I must keep my mouth closed and sit on my hands, because if I don't, I will rob him of what he evidently must do on his own, without my help.

So he'll have nothing to eat all day.

He'll be fine.

He can do the job if he wants to do the job.

Absolutely. It is completely up to him. And you know what---he may get fired. Or he may quit. And if he does, he will have learned something from this, and he will take that to the next job.

I'm not trying to say you should do what I do. The truth is different for each situation. But when we get too involved in their lives, it is never a good thing for them or for us. I have learned this lesson over the past nearly five years, and the hard way. I just want to share that with you today. Warm hugs. No judgment here.