Well, that didn't last long :(

in a daze

Well-Known Member
You and your husband are doing a great job handling your son. You are both on the same page. It is so important to present a united front. You are both calm, but firm.

You will all get through this. He will learn from his mistakes. The job sounds like a job at UPS, in the warehouse. A lot of my son's friends couldn't hack it there and would end up quitting or getting fired.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Well, you may be his excuse, and you can't control that either, but you are not his excuse and you know that, and we know that, and deep down, he knows that.

I mean "excuse" like the dog ate my homework. :) As opposed to an actual reason. The reason would be he messed up and lost his transportation and didn't find another way to work and got fired for absenteeism.

His excuse would be his parents took the car away.

But when we get too involved in their lives, it is never a good thing for them or for us.
I know, I know, I really, truly do know. I really know that I need to step back. It's so hard when he's still living at home. It's so hard to try not to be "mom". I go back and forth on it. I try not to say anything to him. I try not to tell him what to do. I do fine for a while then I just can't stand another minute of it.


You folks must be so sick of me whining about my kid when I know how much worse it could be. The rest of you definitely have kids worse off than mine...homeless, drug addicted, serious mental problems, suicide attempts...and I have a kid who has tantrums. I feel guilty for even being here at times. But when it's happening, it seems like the worst thing in the world. When he's freaking out and slamming things and screaming and shouting and literally pulling his hair out and acting like a crazy person I just ... it terrifies me. I see him losing control like that and I'm so afraid he's never going to stop flying off the handle like he does. He should know how to behave by this point in his life. He should have more self control. We thought "He'll outgrow it" for so long. But he hasn't. He hasn't outgrown it. Incidents like that may be further apart than they were...but new situations like this, things going wrong, he doesn't know how to handle it and just falls apart. That's the ONE thing I would like some therapy to help with.
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Lil I do understand and we are not "sick of" anything about you and your situation. It is so terrifying when our kids don't progress like we so hoped and expected them to. You are entitled to every one of your feelings so honor them and claim them and continue to share them.

We get all of the complexities of you and your son. It is all so very complex with many shades of gray.

We're here for you. Warm gentle hugs.


Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
 

in a daze

Well-Known Member
You folks must be so sick of me whining about my kid when I know how much worse it could be. The rest of you definitely have kids worse off than mine...homeless, drug addicted, serious mental problems, suicide attempts...and I have a kid who has tantrums. I feel guilty for even being here at times.

Only we on Parent Emeritus understand the special hell of living with an adult child whose behavior and lifestyle is out of control. The sleepless nights, the constant anxiety and stress, the yelling and screaming, the manipulation, the mess, etc. etc. Don't feel guilty. Post as much as you feel you need to. The constant stress of living with a difficult child can wreck your mental and physical health and break up your marriage or relationship. A therapist for yourself and or for you and your husband can be very helpful in helping you set limits with your son. Support groups such as Families Anonymous are good. Your friends or family members with all perfect children...a lot of them may not understand.

I myself sometimes feel a little guilty for posting when my kid has been relatively stable for the past 6 months (although that can change, I know). I still get anxious and down when I don't hear from him, or when he calls me, like last week, wanting me to "fix" something (can't stand the people in the house, get him a new place to live, I told him I'm a nurse and your mother, not a social worker, talk to your caseworker, that's HER job). Everyone on the message board especially COM, Recovering, Cedar, MOM, Echo, etc. etc. have been nothing but kind and supportive despite the fact that their kids are or have been homeless and living outside of society' s norms. When you read through the posts on here and see how they respond you come away with a little more knowledge and resolve in dealing with your wayward adult child.

Keep us in the loop, Lil.
 

wakeupcall

Well-Known Member
COM is so right! I'm trying my very best to not engage my difficult child. I will NOT play. He has a nice home to live in with plenty of food. All he has to do is work his job, pay 1/2 his car insurance and buy his own gas. That's it! Why do they act so hateful to authority? Act snotty to their parents. I barely hear from him (my new husband will not put up with difficult child disrespecting me), but when I do, he's ugly to me. I just don't get it. I worked my arse off the whole time he was growing up and this is what I get? Oh well, I won't work it off any longer. I so understand this post. I'm just waiting for difficult children father to throw him out...he will then be homeless also because he's not living with me!
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Everyone on the message board especially COM, Recovering, Cedar, MOM, Echo, etc. etc. have been nothing but kind and supportive despite the fact that their kids are or have been homeless and living outside of society' s norms.

Absolutely. The people on this board really are the best!!!
:angel2:

Well, he's called twice. Everything is, of course, hunky-dory. He said he got there just as the whistle blew. He may have clocked in 1-2 minutes late. Supposedly that's a tardy. His friend told him they aren't that picky. He apologized for his behavior this morning. He always apologizes for his behavior. I had so much time this morning (getting up an hour and a half early) that I tossed in a load of t-shirts and underpants for him. (Yeah, I know, his job, but I had a ton of time and I'm not finishing it.) He said, "Well, not everything was dirty. I just need to organize it. Now, in his defense, we sold his all-in-one loft bed a couple weeks ago and replaced it with a regular twin, so he doesn't have a dresser. That's no excuse, since I told him a week ago to fold his clean clothes and put them in a laundry basket and if he had (instead of tossing them in the floor) he'd have known clean from dirty. So...tonight he can help carry the spare dresser from the garage (which we've been meaning to put in his room for a week) and finish his laundry and put it away. I reminded him that flying off the handle just makes him later. But it is what it is. Just another day.
:overreactsmiley::panicsmiley::tantrumsmiley:
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Sad today.

Son did not work today. Yesterday he went to work, fully expecting to work at least 1/2 day today. He called a couple times, I believe I said that, and everything seemed fine. Said they got enough volunteers for overtime that they didn't make it mandatory after all.

My husband and I both wonder if that's true or if he's been fired and he's lying because we told him we'd kick him out if he got fired and didn't find another job in a week. If he were fired, he wouldn't want to face the music. He would lie. Because he's a liar...it's what he does. We keep wondering and it's so ... wrong. I mean, he worked all week (with the exception of the day he called in) and was totally panicked at the thought he'd be late and get fired. He's been in a reasonably good mood...what we've seen of him. He got paid for orientation (about $30) so of course he's been with his stoner friends since then.

Isn't it awful that he completes a week of work and because he doesn't work overtime today I wonder if he's actually fired and lying? And I'm going to have to ask...Because I just really have to know.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Lil, I actually think your kid is as disturbed as the rest of ours and there are things you don't even know about him that would most likely shock you so it's best you don't know. From one who knows, by the way :). So whine all you like.

One thing I found is that it is very true that once they aren't at home, I personally don't worry as much. And, of course, that brings more peace and forces them to do it themselves. You certainly made something of yourself. Your son can most certainly work at whatever low level job he is at. We all had our first job once and not all of us were slim, fit and athletic.

When my bright, sweet but autistic son goes to work, he takes a cab. He does not drive. I mean, he is on my way to work so on the days I work I pick him up (remember, he is on the autism scale, but very pleasant). On the days Id on't work, he doesn't ask me to drive him. He takes a cab. Now he gets a cheap rate for being autistic, but he could yell at me to drive him. Our cabs here are crowded and are called "Share-a-Cab." Son is very cheerful about it. It is the good or negative nature of the child who gets to work in less than great circumstances and it is also the will. My son would never dream of missing work, and, frankly, he only has a part-time, minimum wage job and he knows it, but he gives it his all. Although I do have a difficult child, he isn't lazy. None of my kids are. They all had to get jobs in high school (part-time), got nothing for free, and work hard. If I had indulged 36, he would be a King sitting on his throne, waiting for us to hand him everything. As it is, it embarasses me when he begs his father for money as he makes a good living and secretly buys toys for himself t hat his father doesn't know about...he is one sneaky man...but I don't talk about it to my ex. None of my business.

Back to you. You will learn that it is better to let him do things the hard way rather than have it easy peasy. The more you pamper him, the weaker he will become. Young men his age are fighting for our country, in full time college, and have worked full time even in very physical jobs...your son is a man. But he may never get to be a man if you drop everything to drive him to a job just because YOU want him to have one. If he really isn't motivated to work, he won't. And if he is really motivated to work, he will.

I'd be thinking of maybe giving him ground rules to follow or give him time to leave and live on his own. There is no reason for him to bug you about things that he can take care of himself. Heck, my daughter, right after she quit using drugs, walked to and from work for over a year and it was a few miles away. Her brother, whom she was living with, wasn't about to drive her and she was very good about showing up, even promoted to manager. This is how they grow strong and change and grow and develop strong ADULT ethics and values. My daughter was on the wrong path, but she was forced to change and she did.

I hope you start thinking more about yourself than your grown son, at least as far as needs go. He doesn't need a car at all to work. And before you say "but all the jobs are far away"...kids who are motivated ride bikes, take public trans, pay for cabs, carpool...they get to work. None of my kids owned a car until they bought one and all of them are working steadily. It is not an option for them not to work or else they will be on the streets. By the way, if you cook for him, do his laundry, clean his room...I had my kids doing that in high school or they didn't have clean clothes or a clean room (I did cook).

Is my way the right way? I have no idea. It probably won't work for every adult kid. But I really can't see how treating an adult like a child can EVER work. And they don't appreciate it either.

Hugs to you. Make sure YOU have a wonderful life. Your son's life can only be as good as he makes it. Heck, 36 still feels like the world victimizes him and I can't change that. Wish I could, but I have no control over his inner demons.

By the way, I'm the Crazy Dog Lady and your dogs sound adorable :) Bostons! So cute!
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
Oh Lil, it sounds exhausting. I was looking for a comment I think you made..about how hard it is to have them home. I couldn't find it, so maybe I imagine it, but I will say...yes, it is much harder when their every stress, every misstep, every mood swing is in our faces. That is hard with easy child young adults, and it is hard with difficult child's. There is a difficult transition with young adults when it is just hard to live in the same house with them...that means it is time for them to leave! It often happens at the end of high school when kids, easy child, difficult child, or other, are leaving for college. those are the ones (like me) who don't cry when they leave. It was time for easy child daughter to go. We fought and wrangled and rubbed along and it was time for her to go.

SO lived with his 19 year old (then 20, then 21, then 22, then 23) year old daughter when I met him. She is a nice young woman...now. Then she was supposedly in school to become a nurse, but was really taking intro course after intro course at community college, after 4 years doesn't even have an associates degree to show for it. She took college loans and lived for free and used the loans for parties and clothes. She was AWFUL, and I thought she was a difficult child. Now I think it was situational, transitional. He sold their house, she had to move in with friends, and she has become the lovely responsible working, self supporting girl she is now. Every little thing he hung on to as her parent (keeping her on his cell phone service and car insurance to save her money...she was supposed to pay him her share but sometimes did and sometimes didn't) hurt her. He had to cut the strings, which was a fairly ugly process, and then she flew.

I know your son is not his daughter, it is just food for thought, and some comfort that the exhaustion is a normal transition. I know he is your only child, so this is a new process for you.

You commented that you feel bad about posting because your situation is less dire than some of us...I had two thoughts about that...one is, if you feel desperate and despairing and unsure of your parenting and your kid is off track (all of which apply to all of us, including you) then welcome to our club! Of course we welcome you here, and listen with all our hearts. The second is...there was a time when our kids were like yours. Cedar, REcovering, Child, me...there was a time when our kids were incomprehensible, off track, but still home and we we still trying to save them...they don't go straight from childhood to drug addiction or homelessness or street living dual diagnosis badness. I don't know where your boy is heading, but you are right to be vigilant right now.

I think I said this to you before, and I hear it in Child's post to you too....try to step away. You are in soooo close, you know when he is late to work and how he feels about it, where he goes, what he spends, how he gets there...its a lot for you to try to process. Its too much.

But if I step in now, even when it APPEARS that he is trying to change his own situation---I will rob him of the learning HE MUST DO---he must do---he must do---in order to become a functioning, contributing adult.

They have to manage on their own to have any self respect. In learning to manage on their own they will flub and fall, sometimes gruesomely. But they will definitely fall if we do it for them.

An earnest neighbor left me a nervous voicemail the other day...he said he had seen difficult child and talked with him, that difficult child had asked him for money for a phone and that he had almost given it to him but had decided not to. He was sort of apologizing for that decision. I called him back and told him NEVER to give my difficult child or anyone else's any money..that everything that anyone does for him that makes this life he chooses easier, that supports his behavior and decisions in even the smallest way, keeps him there that much longer. He has to hate his life enough that it is easier to change than live it.


he may get fired. Or he may quit. And if he does, he will have learned something from this, and he will take that to the next job.

This is true and important. He may get fired, or quit. This is not the end of the world. The story here is loooong, with lots of ups and downs. Don't pin your hopes or happiness on the short run, the success or failure of this version right now. IT is what it is, you can't change or control that. More things will happen, more things will come along. Try not to burn yourself out over him, his job, his life, right now.

Hugs, and as Child said, no judgement here.

Echo
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
You are in soooo close, you know when he is late to work and how he feels about it, where he goes, what he spends, how he gets there...its a lot for you to try to process. Its too much.

I don't really have a way around that. What happened Friday is I got up to pee and saw his light on so I said, "Hey, you up?" And he had fallen asleep and the tantrum was on.

But really, do I have much of a choice? If I say, "If you don't work you can't live here." Well, don't I have to know if he's working? The where he goes/what he spends, etc. I actually don't know that. Yes, my husband GPS'd him the other day, to make sure he had, in fact, gone home after work instead of running around it the car, because the car is work only. If he goes out and doesn't come back all night, all I ask is he tell me he's not coming home so I don't worry. I don't even ask him where he goes or what he does with the exception of when he has the car.

The fact is, most I know I know because he volunteers it. I know his check yesterday was $36 because he told me. I don't think I asked...he called and asked if it was okay to add a trip to Walmart to cash his check to his mileage on the car. That sort of thing.

Oh I don't know...I don't want this. I want him on his own. I want his to get his head out of his ... When he was gone on his 10 month vacation that was supposed to be college, my life was much simpler.

I just don't want him to lie to me anymore. I truly hate a liar more than anything on this earth. He knows this. He's always known this. Still he's a liar. I value being trustworthy over anything. Really more than anything. In my view it's the ONE thing a decent person must be. The single most important trait a person should have. My son is not trustworthy. I hate this so much.

By the way, if you cook for him, do his laundry, clean his room...I had my kids doing that in high school or they didn't have clean clothes or a clean room (I did cook).

I really don't do that. If I cook something and he wants to eat it he's welcome, but if not he cooks for himself. I only threw the laundry in yesterday because I thought he had to be at work today and I had tons of time. He dried and folded. Granted, I told him to, or it would still be wet.

our dogs sound adorable :) Bostons! So cute!

I love my furbabies. They really are adorable. :)
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
Lil,

when my difficult child was at his therapeutic boarding school they used to use the term "sketchy". They were very clear that they didn't need to have proof of wrongdoing, they didn't need to engage in a "he said she said" argument, the kid in question didn't have the opportunity to lawyer talk/argue/tantrum their way out of anything...it was incumbent on the kids to keep their behavior above board, and they were called on anything "sketchy". Sketchy itself, meaning behavior that causes adults to even START to think about checking on the kid, was unacceptable. Sketchy is coming home from work later than expected without calling first. Sketchy is calling to come home late too often. Sketchy is being late for work and disrupting the household (he can be late to work and keep that problem to himself, slip out the door if you will...that is a reasonable expectation on your part. There is no reason that his being late should turn the household on its ear). Sketchy is going out at night and not coming home. Sketchy is what you say it is...no room for argument.

I found that very useful.

I never had to put difficult child out. He left home when he was 17 to live with the Occupy Movement, and has only been back for brief periods since. I'll correct that...I have had to ask/tell him to leave as the end of some of those visits, but it isn't the same as making them leave the first time. When I put him out he had the experience of living on the street or couch surfing, and as much as he didn't like it he still had some ability to figure it out.

I'm not saying you should put difficult child out, but it is important to know somewhere in your mind that if his behavior is toxic to your household, you have the ability to put an end to that part of it.

Good luck to you, Lil, on this roller coaster.

Echo
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Echo, I really liked this "sketchy." My son has always been sketchy. I can never tell when he's lying (you can't either, Lil) and plenty of times I found out late in the game that he HAD been lying. Lil, this is my take on "sketchy." They have imploded our trust and if we don't trust them, which we shouldn't, it is too bad. They don't deserve to be trusted until they start living within societal norms and not like babies. I would not, for example, let my son or daughter or anything in my house EVER stay ouf all night, regardless of age or behavior, without checking in and telling me where he/she/it is going. No way. My house/my rules. You want to do whatever you want to do at night? Move out. I assume that if an eighteen and older is out ALL NIGHT the person is up to no good. If my husband was out all night, and he is 58, we'd be talking divorce. Nobody has a right to do whatever he wants to do based on age. Not if you live with others. In my opinion, and I could be wrong, I think that just encourages irresponsibility.

Heck, when my daughter took drugs, I regularly checked up on her and searched her room. In my house, she had lost her right to privacy. I found out a lot about her activities that way and could decide what to do about them. At that time, however, she was mostly a minor.

The short version of this rambling is that your son doesn't deserve your trust as he hasn't earned it and you don't have to have everything proven to a fault. Use your mom gut. In your heart, you know. If it turns out you made a mistake, I used to say, "Well, I DID trust you for most of your life and you eroded my trust. It was horrible for me, but now I find I can't believe you, even if I want to. So you will have to live with a lack of privacy or go live somewhere else. I need to try to keep you safe and you also need to care about my anxiety level."

Hug your therapy dogs (I hug mine for comfort!!!) and try to relax. If he doesn't work, he will reap natural consequences. Perhaps he can't get up because he takes drugs you don't know he's taking so he's groggy in the morning. We had this with my daughter and we were so clueless we never thought "drugs!" We thought she was just using pot. Keep an open mind. Anything could be going on with your son. They are good at hiding what they do!!! And you are not alone at all! We care about you AND your son!
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Thank you both. I agree. In our house, there's no privacy. In our car there's no privacy. If we start thinking he's doing something in our home we don't approve of...we'll snoop. End of story. The out all night thing, well I guess you could say that IS a rule of the house. We told him he's an adult and he doesn't have a curfew and if he stays out then so be it. But not with our car and tell us so we don't wake up and wonder if something's happened to him. I don't mind him staying out. Of course I would mind if my husband did too. :) Realistically, since June, he's stayed out exactly twice and I knew he was at a friend's house. It's not like that happens all the time folks. He spent the night way (with permission of course) more when he was in high school...and his friends stayed here. When they were minors I made them call their parents. Drove them nuts because most of them had the kind of parents who really didn't care. How awful is that? But now he's not allowed to have people over without several days advance notice and realistically, he just doesn't have people over.

Usually he goes to bed before us.

I guess he didn't get fired. He says he has to be at work at 6 and he's way too lazy to get up at 5 a.m. just to maintain the illusion. He'd have at least told us his hours were back to 7-3:30 and overtime had ended. In fact, he's home now and asked if I would make sure he's up so there's not a repeat of Friday where he fell asleep again. Again, I don't mind doing that until he's used to the new hours. I can go back to sleep for an hour after he leaves.

So that's were we stand now. No, I don't believe him 90% of the time. He's so much like his biodad. Telling me enough bad stuff that's true so that the good stuff seems more honest. It is exhausting living with someone you can't trust, isn't it?
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Lil, it's awful. The stuff I found out 36 had done makes me angry that my other kids didn't want to "worry" me so they didn't tell me. Of course, we would find out certain things, like when our credit cards were maxed out for porn channels that they used to have on TV...don't know if they still do. He also charged game systems, games, other toys and had the nerve to say it wasn't him when caught. I mean, who else cared about that stuff? Well, according to him, somebody must have gotten hold of the cards and did it because he didn't. Tiring? I get exhausted just thinking about it. You don't even want to know what we found in his room once he was kicked out. Hint: think something you should do in the bathroom stored in pop bottles, probably due to laziness. He also stole from us, but it was never him. I know he tried to fool/scam people online, but that's where "sketchy" comes in. I know but don't know details and can't prove it.

I'm going to jump out the window if I keep thinking about it...lol. No really, but I'm glad it's over.

36 is a phenomenal con artist. Even when it was obvious he was lying, you honestly questioned it. He was that "good."

Yes, I understand. Yes, it's exhausting.
 
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