What in the world

[Nomad]

I have a new friend in my new city.

She has two sons and both she tells me treat her rather shabbily. Their wives do as well. We had not met them, until recently when we met one. She also has a daughter and that relationship is healthier.

She has points to Time shares and had saved them. Only two months ago she had big time major surgery and was super sick. She decided to treat her and her husband to 2 overnights to one of these places locally, that included a free , fancy buffet dinner. It allowed you to bring a guest to dinner. They didn’t seem to care if the guest was a couple.

She invited her son and his wife to come Thurs and us to come Fri. To join them for dinner.

At the last minute, her son said he /they wanted to come Fri.

Right or wrong, she didn’t call me to ask if I wanted to switch. I think since it was last minute she didn’t feel it was right.

The place had a buffet from 4-5:30 and another spread at 5:30 to 7. She told him to come at 4 and me to come at 5:30. As a side note, we couldn’t come any earlier than 5:30.

When we got there , they were finishing their food. She introduced us. We said hello and it was a pleasure to meet you. This young couple barely looked up. In fact, I don’t think he looked up at all. She looked up and if looks could kill we would be dead. They were very ugly to their parents for the next five minutes, then left. Later, he realized he had accidentally taken the room key. We were eating and he came back and without saying a word, threw the key in the table and left.

She said he treats her like this all the time. He is in his early thirties. The other son is similar. If she complains, they might blow up at her , so she rarely says anything.

I asked her if he had a diagnosis, and she said no. She said she has learned to limit interaction and not say much. She invited them to the dinner because he has given her good advice with the points and how to get the best deals. Only a guess, but I guess he was furious that she didn’t dump us or switch our nights with his even though it was last minute. He never acknowledge our presence. It was profoundly rude. So rude as to be shocking.

What is this? Have you ever seen this type of behavior before? I feel sooo sorry for her. She says she has learned to be strong.She says when she tries to set boundaries he screams. So, it’s more of a keep your distance kind of thing and she has gotten much tougher and she doesn’t let this stuff bother her too much.

WTH is this behavior from the son and his wife?

 

[BusynMember]

Hi Nomad. Not all bad behavior has a name. Sadly some people are mean. I read about this kind of nasty snubbing all the time here. I would say he is a jerk. That is my label. If any of my kids treated me like that, I would not be willing to put up with it. I am starting to realize the beauty of no contact. Why be around people who treat you like dirt?

I feel badly for her, especially since she has another one like this too. Like many adults who bring us to the forum, he probably thinks his parents deserve this treatment for whatever reason. But nobody deserves that treatment. Its mean and in my opinion its kinder to let go if you are so angry that you csnt be civil to somebody else. Especially family. It is in my opinion kinder to let go and allow the others to heal. Every negative interaction just sadly piles on the hurt.

My .02 worth is to enjoy your friendship and not try to figure out their family dynamics or to worry about a diagnosis. There is nothing you can do.

Love and light!

 

[Crayola13]

This reminds me of a similar situation. A friend took her whole family on vacation. Everything was paid for. But, she wouldn't pay for her grown kids to rent surfboards on the trip. That seemed to piss two of her kids off and they considered their trip ruined. Maybe something like that happened with your friend.

 

[Nomad]

I am noticing more and more with youth,and it goes without saying with difficult children, but even people who are a borderline official “ d. c.”:
1. Lack of gratefulness
2. Lack of common courtesy and sometimes downright rudeness
3. This attitude: “Im mad/disappointed so I’m going to treat everyone around me like doo doo”
4. Immaturity (for lack of a better word )
5. Hypersensitivity
6. Don’t you dare mention my faults

 

[BusynMember]

I have one kid, not young, who can have an attitude but my three younger ones are so far from ever saying or doing anything like that that I cant relate to it. Even Bart was never ungrateful about vacations even if he didnt get his way and they all act loving. I am not around Bart much since he lives far but my other kids would never think to make everyone miserable because they are. I dont believe my kids are that unusual.

I dont think its the entire generation.

I do think many parents accept too much rudeness. In older generations the kids would have been (I hate the word) but shunned for acting like jerks to older relatives. I think it is accepted more now. I am not sure this trend is good for anyone.

 

[newstart]

I have a new friend in my new city.

She has two sons and both she tells me treat her rather shabbily. Their wives do as well. We had not met them, until recently when we met one. She also has a daughter and that relationship is healthier.

She has points to Time shares and had saved them. Only two months ago she had big time major surgery and was super sick. She decided to treat her and her husband to 2 overnights to one of these places locally, that included a free , fancy buffet dinner. It allowed you to bring a guest to dinner. They didn’t seem to care if the guest was a couple.

She invited her son and his wife to come Thurs and us to come Fri. To join them for dinner.

At the last minute, her son said he /they wanted to come Fri.

Right or wrong, she didn’t call me to ask if I wanted to switch. I think since it was last minute she didn’t feel it was right.

The place had a buffet from 4-5:30 and another spread at 5:30 to 7. She told him to come at 4 and me to come at 5:30. As a side note, we couldn’t come any earlier than 5:30.

When we got there , they were finishing their food. She introduced us. We said hello and it was a pleasure to meet you. This young couple barely looked up. In fact, I don’t think he looked up at all. She looked up and if looks could kill we would be dead. They were very ugly to their parents for the next five minutes, then left. Later, he realized he had accidentally taken the room key. We were eating and he came back and without saying a word, threw the key in the table and left.

She said he treats her like this all the time. He is in his early thirties. The other son is similar. If she complains, they might blow up at her , so she rarely says anything.

I asked her if he had a diagnosis, and she said no. She said she has learned to limit interaction and not say much. She invited them to the dinner because he has given her good advice with the points and how to get the best deals. Only a guess, but I guess he was furious that she didn’t dump us or switch our nights with his even though it was last minute. He never acknowledge our presence. It was profoundly rude. So rude as to be shocking.

What is this? Have you ever seen this type of behavior before? I feel sooo sorry for her. She says she has learned to be strong.She says when she tries to set boundaries he screams. So, it’s more of a keep your distance kind of thing and she has gotten much tougher and she doesn’t let this stuff bother her too much.

WTH is this behavior from the son and his wife?

Nomad, I feel very sorry for your friend. My daughters boyfriend is so weird to us, and treats us the same way as you described your friends son. I think it is some kind of autism. We have decided that no relationship with him is better than being treated like crap. We simply will not tollerate him. We have our hands full with our daughter, I certainly do not want to take on another problem child, adult age 43 but still a problem child. If I would your friend I would think about cutting ties and ending this awful abuse.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh. I do not have the means to take my adult kids on vacations. If I did and they dared to say to me that not renting surfboards ruined their vacation, their vacation would be over or the rest of it would be on their dime except for a flight home and I would never ask them again. At least, thats how I hope I would react.

Part of the problem that I see with many ADULTS that bring us here, either presently or in the past, is in my opinion that the parents are scared of ticking off really bratty, nasty, rude behavior. At least among those in the higher monetary classes, I am shocked by what sometimes lazy, rude, abusive, drugged, horribly disrespectful adults are given .....free cars, room and board, tickets paid, attornies for bad offenses,houses....and this is even when these adults are treating their parents like crap! Rewards for not even a tinge of respect. Nothing is expected anymore with many parents who would NEVER have treated their parents that way EVEN if they never were given a car, house, etc.

We get treated the way we let people treat us.

Think of if our parents or grandparents would have put up with the two adults saying their free vacation was lousy because they had to pay for their own rental boards. Or how they would have reacted to much of this type of rude, entitled behavior. Would they have bought us everything we owned if we took drugs and refused to work? And on top of that abused them? And then called to whine and point fingers at THEM?

I was very close to my grandma and she was the kindest person in my family of origin butv even she would have been done if anyone had treated her that way. To tne extent of rudeness I read on this forum. And abuse.

So I feel very badly for parents who take their adult kids out for a nice dinner then get treated like crap but a part of me thinks they are allowing it and thus causing it to happen.

I have put up with too much from many, giving others who are not kind by nature or maybe have grudges against me an easy way to stick it to me. Whose fault was that? In large part, my own for allowing them in my space.

Fortunately for me it has not been a child. It still took me a long time to refuse to accept it.

Nobody needs to put up with rude, abusive adults. But some of us put up with it, even reward it. We love them so we put up with crumbs.

But our ancestors probably would not have let this sort of disrespect stand. We do. So it happens a lot today.

Jmo

 

[Nomad]

Well, if you factor in just two months ago she was in the hospital fighting for her life and underwent two big surgeries, it’s extra bothersome. She’s had a nice recovery.
To me, it is extra shocking that this adult “kid,” was so outrageously rude.

Her attitude is a little different than what we have discussed here. Her interaction with him is bare minimum. He has a child. So, she doesn’t wish to get cut off. She goes through long periods of time that she doesn’t text or contact him. It’s weird as heck. He is gainfully employed and doesn’t use drugs.

My husband and I were appalled. His rudeness, like I said, was shocking it was soooo bad.

I did think about some kind of autism. Very unsure of that though. Does she have the same thing? Not likely.

The mother told me later years ago this bad display in front of us would of set her on edge. Nowadays, she just ignores him. She might not contact him for a very long time. Not sure what that’s about. I think she is hoping he will figure it out on his own.

If she calls him and says to him you were impolite to my friends, she runs the risk of him going ballistic.

I’m fearful on a much smaller scale for myself. When we told our son recently that we were disappointed in recent rude behaviors of his in laws, he did go ballistic on us. Badly. It shook me to my core.
Our son has anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Semi Difficult Child. Also gainfully employed, no drugs, many friends...doing well.

 

[BusynMember]

Nomad, I am sorry.

I hope your son never does that again.

Good on your friend who rarely sees her son. He doesnt deserve her.

 

[Nomad]

And it doesn’t matter one bit if you are accurate. If what you are saying is as plain as the nose on your face.
If they don’t want to hear it, it doesn’t matter if you’ve been hurt or insulted or inconvenienced. If they don’t want to hear it you might be subject to hysterics...going ballistic.

 

[susiestar]

I think some people set a very bad precedent when their kids are young. The kid throws a tantrum and gets what he wants. If you give in to this, or don't figure out how to stop giving in after the kid has started a tantrum, it can be a big problem. I have seen adults who treat their parents like this. Sometimes it is just a kid who is a bad person. Other times the parent never knew how to handle a tantrum/outburst when the kid was small.

My niece got a big shock 2 years ago at Christmas. She was about 14. She was just UGLY to my parents at bedtime. She wanted to sleep with the tv on and that was NEVER acceptable in their home. She lives with her mother who gives her what she wants so that her mother never has to really deal with her. Niece was supposed to stay with my parents for another week. After a 2 hour tantrum at 11 at night, niece was taken home the next day. She has minded herself at my parents' home ever since. She told me it was a HUGE wakeup call and not something anyone else had ever done to her.

I raised my kids with the specific goal that they be well mannered, law abiding contributing members of society. It was NOT easy, but got good results. They may not always USE good manners, but they know what they are and tend to use them around me.

The other thing that I see happen with many people of my own generation and younger generations, is that older people are not seen as actual people. They are seen either as a problem or a burden or are not really seen at all. I spent up to 2 weeks at a time with my grandparents when I was a kid. Not always with my parents there with me, often I was often alone when I visited. Classmates who didn't spend time, especially time alone, with older people seemed to see them as less than people. Older people were either nonentities to them, or they were gift fairies. You know, the grandparent who swoops in with gifts and then leaves. I spent up to 2 weeks with my grandmother in her retirement center in FL after she moved there. Older people were just people to me, and if I didn't behave, my parents would find out and that would be BAD. My friends thought it was strange that I liked going there, but my Gma was one of my best friends. All of her friends liked me, and were interesting people to me. No one my age that I knew really understood this. (yes, I was a wierd kid, but that is beside the point!)

If you never saw your parents or grandparents as people, why would you care how you acted in front of them? Especially if you were not ever taught specifically that what you were doing is wrong?

I am NOT saying that all people of ANY generation are disrespectful or rude or mean, but I think if you don't see someone older as a person, it is easy for you to be awful to them. It doesn't even enter your mind that they could be hurt by you, as you don't really see that they have feelings.

I remember a parent telling me that I was too hard on Wiz, that it was okay if he was rude to teachers, myself and other adults. That Wiz' most important job was to learn at school, not to be polite. I thought this was fundamentally wrong. My son's most important job was to grow up to be a good person and to treat others at least decently, if not well.It seemed to be a fundamental difference between how we raised our kids and how some of their peers were raised.

Of course your friend probably doesn't want to deal with her son's tantrum if she corrects his behavior. It is HARD and often SCARY when grown adults have rages or tantrums. Especially if they then use grandkids as tools to punish you. I know my mother would have waited until we were alone before correcting my behavior, but even now, she would still do it.

I don't know if this is what is happening, or if the kids are just awful people. It could be either way. I am sorry that you had to deal with them though.

 

[Triedntrue]

Nomad said ."am noticing more and more with youth,and it goes without saying with difficult children, but even people who are a borderline official “ d. c.”:
1. Lack of gratefulness
2. Lack of common courtesy and sometimes downright rudeness
3. This attitude: “Im mad/disappointed so I’m going to treat everyone around me like doo doo”
4. Immaturity (for lack of a better word )
5. Hypersensitivity
6. Don’t you dare mention my faults"

I agree with this Nomad

I get my grandaughter (bio) and her sister not bio off to school in the morning. My grandaughter knows i will not put up with rudeness and ingratitude. Her little sister not so much. She is a diva thinks she can do what she wants. One time i told her it was against dress code to wear short shorts and to change, after some discussion she did. She did not have alot of the kind of pants needed, not my problem but i was buying some for my grandaughter and saw some on sale in her size and got a few pair and a couple tops. Took them over next day and gave them to her and no thanks at all. I told her when someone gives you something you should say thank you. She just gave me a look. So next time it was a very tiny thing i gave my grandaughter something she said i want one and started to grab one. I said i don't give things to people who don't know how to say thank you. Then at the bus stop a little boy gave everybody a treat before the holidays and i told her to say thank you and her sister told her to say thank you , she refused so I took the treat. I told him thank you and told her i would let her mother decide if she got it. She did not. This is only a couple of instances.
As a teacher i would give each child a small treat for holidays and i would have children say can i have more or even is this all we get? It astounds me . I taught my kids please and thank you from a young age even my Difficult Child has good manners unless he is in a rage and i have heard how polite he is from many. I could go on and on but you get the picture.

 

[BusynMember]

Triedntrue, this is excellent. But it has to also apply to teens and young adults or it wont necessarily carry over. If you feel its the right thing, buy your sixteen year old in my opinion an old car but insist he have to work to pay at least half the insurance and all the gas. If he doesn't, let it sit there or eventually sell it. If he gets a speeding ticket it sits until he saves up money to pay it. Etc. Leading to all adult transitional moments.

I believe that this generation of parents demands very little respect and gives way too much to adults. We love them so much that we will do anything for them.

But If we didnt allow them to,say, hit us as toddlers, why would any parent allow this by an adult child and not press charges? Because the stakes are higher? What does it teach them to allow them to get away with stealing, lying, drugging in our home, assaulting us?

To me this is a big societal problem. A new one. Parents loving so much that we wont hold our beloved adult kids accountable and buy them what they should buy themselves.

The down side is, we have very low expectations of adult children. Then we wonder why they ask for more and dont behave like adults. We dont ask for the minimal, like respect. We are too afraid of seeing them uncomfortable than forcing them to grow up or face the consequences.

Or maybe we are afraid they wont love us anymore if we dont do what they demand.

Over and over again I read the same stories. Loving parents wont allow a 30 year old to learn to grow up. Or not. They treat us the way we allow.

I think not allowing any abuse from anyone is the best solution both for the abused and the abuser. It is hard to get tough on someone you love. I do think it is worth it.

Love and light!

 

[Nomad]

This friend has noticed something in families I’m kind of noticing within my family.

An inconcruency. Illogical results/behaviors.

We did our very best with our son under extra ordinarily difficult circumstances. Most adults who know us well, have mentioned how crazy tough it must of been and yet we pulled through. Me having health issues, then adopting a special needs child, no familial help bla bla bla. I read every parenting book I could get my hands on. I periodically home schooled when Difficult Child was not able to go to school. I worked PT to give my children extra attention and have time to go to the doctor myself. Helped our son with school, threw lovely birthday parties etc.

I do sometimes wonder if we inadvertently let some things slide with our son due to the craziness we had to endure with his very difficult sister. No doubt it happened from time to Time.

Today my son is relatively quick to get upset with me. Especially if he has work stress or any stress elsewhere. He certainly does not want me to complain about ANYTHING. It stresses him out.

BUT He thinks his wife is the Madonna. She is nice. But, I don’t think he is realistic.

Here is the really odd thing. Her parents were not great parents. They lean on their children constantly. Complain constantly. Made shockingly bad financial choices causing lots of heartache. Yet, the wife sings the praises of the parents like they are just wonderful people. I have mentioned the peculiar huge diatribes they put on FB for the morher’s Birthday like she is the best mom in the world combined with lady di incarnate.

I just do t get it.

 

[BusynMember]

Yes Nomad. Thiis is oddly common I think.

One social worker we had during an adoption told us that she is always shocked when kids whose parents beat them bloody scream for Mom when they are taken away. The kids love these abusive mothers to the end of the universe. Maybe you love more if you never had that love back?

Go figure.

As for spouses coming first, they do. Like our spouses did. They move out and make their own families. I think it is worse with boys. My girls would never let their SO abuse me or my hub but Bart let his really mean wife yell at us once.

Bart also wouldnt acknowledge obvious warning signs that his wife was cheating and would leave him. So he didnt plan for it when it happened. We had all seen it. When it happened he asked me "How did you know???"

 

[Triedntrue]

My fear swot is if these kids are like this now what will the future bring. In the case of the child i was talking about dad is an entitled ass. My sons ex who lived in my house (not where i live) at very minimal rent on condition they make improvements allowed him to move in without asking us . When i decided I had to sell it she told me that he was going to leave without taking all the stuff they didnt want out and leave it for me to clean up. She was not that callous. They had done little to try and improve it and what they did was done badly. He didn't even pay rent . So little miss his daughter doesnt fall far from tree. When i gave her the clothes there was not only no thanks from her but no mention from either parent. I didn't buy them for thanks but it seemed odd. Many of my Difficult Child s friends don't think twice about trying to take advantage of someones kindness. I fell for it a few times till i wised up. I think part of detaching from our dcs teaches us to detach from this type of friend as well.

 

[BusynMember]

To me, analyzing your post, I think this falls into the categoey of you cant take advantage of somebody who wont let you do that and who refuses to be used.

i struggled with this big time although it was not with kids or even family.....more friends or strangers I wanted to and tried to help who kept coming back for more. And me feeling mean if I said no. I.still struggle with this. But every time I was taken advantage of, it was because of my own problem setting boundaries with prople I feel bad for. My fault in my opinion.

I am more willing to help animals now than people. Yes, I am serious!

 

[Nomad]

Sounds right, Swot.

Somewhat related. I treated myself to a VERY interesting book that just arrived today on my doorstep.

For those who don’t care for bad language : warning: look the other way Lolol

It’s called “The subtle art of not giving a Fxxk”

I’m tired of caring, sharing, giving, being very generous etc and may or often NOT get much of anything in return. I’m researching other ways of approaching life.

 

[BusynMember]

Nomad, I think I passed that when I finally dumped my family of origin from my heart but its the kind of book I like. I may get it. Funny name and my new philosophy

I love and will keep helping animals first.

 

[Tired out]

This is a very interesting conversation thread.
I think of our neighborhood and how disrespectful and entitled many (95%?) of the kids that are in the 12-25 year range are.
Also why we were so shocked by our son's behavior. We tried to never give our kids the feeling that they were entitled or better than anyone else.. The older people in the neighborhood would always stop Hubs and me when they ran into us out walking or in the grocery or at a neighborhood function. They would comment specifically on how nice, well mannered and helpful Ben was. He would be out walking around and always stop to help them, mow, shovel, take up their garbage can. There were 2 older couples he always helped with their Christmas decorations, getting them down out of attic.,out of crawl spaces, put them up etc. He would be invited to events with these couples. They would always compliment us on what a good young man he is.
We had some battles through high school, turning in homework (he would do it, not turn it in) Not wanting to get up in the morning for school. It was a battle.We grounded him, no county fair with the guys, that is when he punched a hole in his bedroom wall--says he punched-(-he didn't he hit it with a bat)then put it on fb that he broke his hand punching his wall, 2 of his buddies showed up here all concerned. He was accused of stealing a girls phone 1 time, he was very angry. I got a call from a cop wanting to give me the 3rd degree about the phone! Then they requested we bring Ben to the police dept they wanted to talk to Ben. We ended up at the police station. We didn't leave Ben unattended (he was 17), they tried to get to talk to him with out us. I refused. I felt he was being railroaded. )I spoke with my brother-in-law who was a detective, and he had told me , either refuse the interview or don't leave him with them, they can twist things.) Nothing came of it. Then 2 months later I was at the school, I asked the office secretary if the phone ever turned up she said , "oh yeah! It turned out the girl had just "misplaced" her phone. She wanted a new one so she told her parents it was stolen and accused Ben!" BUT there was never any punishment or apology to Ben or to us!
I wondered how that affected the way he felt about people. law enforcement.
The 1st 2 years out of high school he had a (good) job and was moving up. Then a guy started working there and I slowly saw attitude and mood change from Ben. He started job hunting. Had a new job lined up, gave 2 weeks notice and the boss told him to just leave. Then the manager he was supposed to go to work for got fired the next week and the job fell through..He was very despondent and then it took him 3 months to find a job in his field. He started there and was there for 9 months and the dealership was sold, there were a lot of changes- we aren't sure if he quit or got fired. He says he was laid off, someone else told me he got angry and quit..who knows. Then he sulked for 5 months- said he was looking for a job-- i think he was smoking pot and wouldn't pass drug test so didn't look. THAT is where my story here began. That is when he stole from us and yelled at me and then got into a yelling match with his dad. That is when he turned disrespectful of his dad. Said dad was always mean to him. Such bull. What a mess.
Now he still won't come to the house and see dad. He and I still talk.
He says he apologized for the stealing and the behavior. He did. it was (I felt) disingenuous. It was becasue he wanted to stay here until they got into their apartment. At first we said yes, then he asked for girlfriend and her dog to move in too, that was a no. Then he was mad again. He blames Dad for that becasue he was the one that immediately said no when the word dog came out. Actually, I wouldn't have minded the dog. I didn't want the girlfriend .
So anyhow after that side track.. I wonder at times if one of his issues IS that he saw how spoiled the kids were around here and although our kids were spoiled with time and (what we thought were nice vacations, he now says he hated going to Disney, that we never asked where HE wanted to go) We didn't buy cars for them, we didn't buy them smart phones, we didn't say yes to every little or big thing.
He says Jill and Adam are spoiled and we always did what they wanted but didn't ask him.
Well,Adam is in a wheelchair, and he works hard. We (dad and I) picked Disney and Orlando things becasue they are wheelchair friendly. Jill never complained about Disney, she loved it as much as me and still does. I asked her if she would have rather gone somewhere else. She said, "No, I love it there and it was so much fun with Adam, he could do almost everything". We did do other little breaks, me with Jill, Dad with Ben. Dad took him on overnights to baseball games he wanted to go a couple of times. He also blames his horrible attitude on us relocating when he was in KINDERGARTEN!!! He thinks it is because we left extended family. I know he is wrong about that. He missed my dad horribly BUT he passed away when Ben was 3 and all 3 kids still miss him terribly, he has been gone almost 20 years and it still so very missed. My kids didn't get to know my mom or that would have been another heartbreak. I don't know what we could have done differently. Their dad's parents weren't the kind of grandparents one misses like that.

So there is another Difficult Child with a proverbial chip on their shoulder. I hope that as time goes by he realizes what he is missing by not being a part of this family.