Advice sought

[BusynMember]

I think it's better now
They do usually tell all they know. The problem is they don't always know.
I am very blessed to have Jumper, Sonic and Princess. All are great, well adjusted and the loves of my life. I did not care if the kids were perfect. I am happy to say all of my young adoptions worked out great and the kids are wonderful and launched. Infant adoptions where you have birthparent info is the best way to know what type of kids to expect. If you want a brilliant doctor with perfect mental health don't have any kids. Period. It rarely ever happens.

My own DNA is not so hot

An older child with failed placements is a red flag for dangerousness..say no. This is different than just not being perfect. This is a risk nobody should take in my opinion.

 

[GoingNorth]

I also have two adult adopted cousins who are doing well. My male cousin has a son and a daughter, both now adults, and a decent job. His marriage went bust several years ago and it was messy and he had a rough time for while. His one issue is overeating. He had bariatric surgery, lost a lot of weight, and then gained a good part of it back.

My other cousin, a female, is a speech pathologist, currently working in a management position and doing quite well. She is married with (I think) 1 child.

Both cousins live in FL, as did their mother, who died of lung cancer last year.

So that's two adoptions that basically went OK. Those were private adoptions, however.

 

[BusynMember]

Gn, adoption has changed. That was a long time ago.

Many adoptees do well in life.

Princess was an international adoption, doing great now, very bright, launched, not mentally ill.

Jumper was a private adoption birthmother picked us and we knew her I know very few young adults who have the social skills, heart, ambition and high EQ. She is a year from her law enforcement degree. She is remarkably content in her own skin and has never been in trouble in her life.

Lucas was a foster/adopt. He has a very high functioning form of autism. We knew the history when we adopted him. I thank my God, the Universe, every day for this brave, hardworking, loving, self sufficient success story He is my hero.

Adopted kids, especially older adoptees, tend to do poorly. Older can mean as young as 2. BUT not all adopted kids struggle. My one DNA kid struggles more than all three put together.

I am defending adoption as it has lit up my world. But you need to have common sense (obviously I didn't with that one 11 year old boy) and if you have very high expectations school wise I would not do it. We are fine with average IQs and college isn't a must. Most parents of adopted kids were not college graduates. IQ is inherited.

Goneboy, though no longer in our lives, had an IQ of 160 and is a millionaire and business owner. He was adopted from an orphanage at 6. Although he had non acting out attachment issues, he certainly achieved and has never been in trouble. In his life, he is successful.

You do need to be able to accept average if you adopt, although Princess and Jumper are doing far better than average in life and as people. Much better, especially Jumper.

Most of the difficult kids here are biological.

 

[Lovelife]

So it seems there is insufficient knowledge and understanding on the part of those organising these adoptions of deeply damaged children into new homes.

There is and there isn't. There is knowledge if behaviors are reported, the birth stuff is known, etc. However, imagine having 30+ kids in your caseload, some of which have 1,000s of pages of records.... and you get assigned new kids all the time, people leave (high turnover, stressful job). You get the picture.

 

[Lovelife]

One day husband and I were talking about so many of the wonderful teens in our church heading on to college, or volunteering in other areas of the US or around the world. And ours was struggling to just get thru high school. Then I made a startling realization... Our kids were adopted, and had a mom who used alcohol and drugs and had a history of mental illness.

Then I realized at church, the couple who adopted two children from Colombia had many struggles , esp with their daughter thru high school and young adulthood. An older single mom who was well educated and taught at college, had a daughter that failed to launch, or even get her drivers license. She adopted the girl as an infant who was born addicted to cocaine.

Another couple was unable to have children and adopted two boys who seemed like they did well when younger, but as adults one is divorced and has no contact with his child, the other struggles with legal problems due to substance abuse, married a woman with addiction problems, had a child, and now his parents are raising that child.

It seems like the adopted children had more struggles with relationships, following thru with education or careers and having a purpose for their lives. Certainly, this can't all be a coincidence...the unknown factors of prenatal care, family history, broken relationships must affect the out come some what. I know, not always, but more than I was aware of before we adopted our granddaughters.

Ksm

Not so sure, we've had friends that have had to send their kids off to psychiatric intakes. My brother was definitely ODD bordering on CD. I think kids with multiple placements struggle, especially if they have never formed secure attachments in their life... it's a never ending cycle.... there is arguments out there that the very act of adoption is traumatic.... that kids taken from their parents, no matter the circumstances, and no matter how much of a "better" environment they are place in, will have mental health issues. I've seen successes, so I think it is so child dependent.

 

[BusynMember]

It is. There are plenty of successes. I mentioned only my own. I know a lot more.

Where I see constant trouble is when the I ds were in foster care for, say, five years, in orphanages and have mental illnesses.

Divorce by the way also often csuses attachment problems. Kids in early chaos and loss are at higher risk for problems.

 

[GoingNorth]

Painful illnesses or surgeries during the first years can cause attachment problems as well. The child is in pain and the "mother figure" cannot help it.

 

[Malika]

I have known children who were adopted at the age of three and six, for example, and who in their behaviour and development seem indistinguishable from "normal" kids - unlike my own adopted child, adopted at the age of three months, who has many issues and difficulties. What I am struck by is how many kids are affected by divorce and the loss of a father or certainly loss of a full-time father. I guess there is an essential mystery at work - nobody can predict how the combination of genes and what has happened in utero will interact with environment and nurture. Of course there are broad themes and we can safely say that children who experience severe abuse and/or neglect in infancy simply cannot go on to develop normally... beyond that - I don't think we can generalise. Thank goodness, really...

 

[ksm]

I realize that there are adopted kids, even from horrible backgrounds, that grow up and become productive adults. By "generalizing" I was doing so in the context of a circle of friends and acquaintances that I know personally.

I also have two friends who adopted sibling groups, both 4 kids, and those two couples had 3 or 4 bio kids. One mom, who I am close too, confided that there were periods of time where each child struggled some, but now that they are adults, the adopted siblings did not seem to learn from mistakes, and normal parenting styles, consequences and rewards had not been effective. Both of theses families adopted from the state.

The other family adopted after the kids father murdered their mom, but tried to make it seem like she had abandoned her children. The father ended up in prison. Her adopted kids struggled and as they became adults, most left and distanced themselves from their adoptive family.

Both families had the best intentions. I am sure there was mental and substance abusive issues in the bio parents background.

Anyway, from where I am coming from...adoption (i.e.: the issues leading up to adoption) seemed to have had an effect on the families I know. I am glad that others have not had these issues.

Even with my own granddaughters, as teen girls they have a very low self esteem, they feel some how, not good enough...because their parents couldn't get their act together and raise them. It shouldn't define them, but at the age they are, it does. I hope they grow out of it and become confident young women. They are beautiful and smart, but they don't or can't own that.

KSM.

 

[BusynMember]

From what I have seen, and that's a lot, I am going to mini-generalize. One, just one example, is adopting from Hong Kong, all older orphanage kids . It's a small sample of about fifty and we met once a year. Many of the kids knew one another in the orphanages.

Of those fifty something kids, all older orphanage kids, about six were normal the last time we met. They were adopted from age four to fifteen. The problems were mostly quite severe with lots of sexual acting out and family rejection. LIke us, many had infant adopted kids who were mostly fine.

One family adopted two awesome boys, both who did great and graduated college and live near me now. The parents however were dream parents for kids who needed extreme bonding. They both worked at the same private religious school and both boys went to their small school and both had their parents as teachers at least once. In the summer both parents were not working and spent quality family time and vacations with the boys nonstop. Both parents were compatible with one another and made special time for each child. It was always amazing at our yearly get togethers. We are all FB friends and all is still good.

This is the most successful older adoption (age 6 and 4 and not biologically related or adopted at the same time). So sometimes things work out. I would call this a minority, but it happens. It DID happen. When the family went back to Hong Kong to adopt their second son, they took J. With them and he got to see his old orphanage and caregivers again. It bonded the boys and they are still very close. They have no other kids.

We adopted Sonic at 2 and other than autism and he almost seems to be outgrowing his difficulties with that, he has been delightful...perfect. But he was in one foster home, never lived with his drug birthmother, and that one foster family was loving and attentive. It matters. He was never abused nor tossed from one home to another. We exchange Christmas cards even now.

The fact that my most difficult child is my one bio. Child is backwards...lol.

I feel divorce IS devestation to children. Many, many kids of divorce are represented here and divorce IS an issue. My older kids experienced divorce and are far less adjusted than my two youngest. Both of them are both very happy, confident and we'll balanced young adults. But they saw nothing but parents who loved one another. .. and they notice our love and tease us, but you can tell that they really enjoy our love. Divorce may be extremely common, but kids don't like it.

 

[Lovelife]

Painful illnesses or surgeries during the first years can cause attachment problems as well. The child is in pain and the "mother figure" cannot help it.

Yes, as in an after birth stay in NICU. Yep. This boy had that.

 

[Lovelife]

From what I have seen, and that's a lot, I am going to mini-generalize. One, just one example, is adopting from Hong Kong, all older orphanage kids . It's a small sample of about fifty and we met once a year. Many of the kids knew one another in the orphanages.

Of those fifty something kids, all older orphanage kids, about six were normal the last time we met. They were adopted from age four to fifteen. The problems were mostly quite severe with lots of sexual acting out and family rejection. LIke us, many had infant adopted kids who were mostly fine.

One family adopted two awesome boys, both who did great and graduated college and live near me now. The parents however were dream parents for kids who needed extreme bonding. They both worked at the same private religious school and both boys went to their small school and both had their parents as teachers at least once. In the summer both parents were not working and spent quality family time and vacations with the boys nonstop. Both parents were compatible with one another and made special time for each child. It was always amazing at our yearly get togethers. We are all FB friends and all is still good.

This is the most successful older adoption (age 6 and 4 and not biologically related or adopted at the same time). So sometimes things work out. I would call this a minority, but it happens. It DID happen. When the family went back to Hong Kong to adopt their second son, they took J. With them and he got to see his old orphanage and caregivers again. It bonded the boys and they are still very close. They have no other kids.

We adopted Sonic at 2 and other than autism and he almost seems to be outgrowing his difficulties with that, he has been delightful...perfect. But he was in one foster home, never lived with his drug birthmother, and that one foster family was loving and attentive. It matters. He was never abused nor tossed from one home to another. We exchange Christmas cards even now.

The fact that my most difficult child is my one bio. Child is backwards...lol.

I feel divorce IS devestation to children. Many, many kids of divorce are represented here and divorce IS an issue. My older kids experienced divorce and are far less adjusted than my two youngest. Both of them are both very happy, confident and we'll balanced young adults. But they saw nothing but parents who loved one another. .. and they notice our love and tease us, but you can tell that they really enjoy our love. Divorce may be extremely common, but kids don't like it.

Woo ee.... good to see some levels of success, yet the one family you discuss with the two boys... that is just so unrealistic in almost every single household (which you do allude to). Even if we were able, it may not even matter. I've heard of families that have a whole team of different therapists working with a Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kid every single day, along with a parent at home also working with the kid... and 7 years later, barely anything. Tough tough tough.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh I agree. Both of these boys had special "parents" in Hong Kong who would bring them home and make them feel special...more loved than other orphanage kids. Goneboy knew the oldest in the orphanage and said, "He was smart!" And never a behavior problem either.

My boy from foster care at age 11-13 and with five placements already would not have been any better in their care. He was already too damaged. Yours, I think the same. The Hong Kong boys not only had a perfect environment...the boys were resilient and not destroyed by living in an orphanage.

But that is the exception. Most of the Hong Kong adoptees were a mess. Some parents actually admitted they were sorry that they had adopted these older kids and those families mostly had other adopted kids who came as babies...

The system sucks all over the world.

 

[Lovelife]

Oh I agree. Both of these boys had special "parents" in Hong Kong who would bring them home and make them feel special...more loved than other orphanage kids. Goneboy knew the oldest in the orphanage and said, "He was smart!" And never a behavior problem either.

My boy from foster care at age 11-13 and with five placements already would not have been any better in their care. He was already too damaged. Yours, I think the same. The Hong Kong boys not only had a perfect environment...the boys were resilient and not destroyed by living in an orphanage.

But that is the exception. Most of the Hong Kong adoptees were a mess. Some parents actually admitted they were sorry that they had adopted these older kids and those families mostly had other adopted kids who came as babies...

The system sucks all over the world.

Absolutely to the above. In so many ways, what this all shows is that nature indeed often trumps nurture... at a minimum it sets the groundwork. with-O good nature, tough going. with-O it along with poor nurture .. beyond tough going. I mean, this kiddo does such bizarre things and has so many layers, he will be better institutionalized.