Yes they are. He's been evaluated for autism, but does not have it. I agree.
Yes, he is way past anything mentioned. Sad, but true poor little dude.
He will hopefully get some help.
Advice sought
- Thread starter Lovelife
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Yes, he is way past anything mentioned. Sad, but true poor little dude.
He will hopefully get some help.
Yes he does, and he will be leaving this home. I'm not sure if he will get the full amount of help he needs, given "resources", but we would be extremely selfish if we believed WE could give him what he needs. Not many people understand that. I invite them to take him home for a few weeks. :0
Malika
Well-Known Member
It is still very sad. I do not criticise your decision not to go ahead with the adoption of this young boy, but I'm not sure how it would be "extremely selfish" if you did. The accusation of selfishness will be in terms of your now refusing the adoption. You must feel a lot of sadness and mixed emotions about having to decide to let him go, for his own good and the sake of your own family well-being. I do hope this child can be helped.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
he will get more help that they can't afford if they let the state take csre of him. They can't begin to touch the amount of money it eill take to even try to get him help.
He needs more than they can give. other families already tried and couldnt do it. Its not sad. It offers him hope.
He needs more than they can give. other families already tried and couldnt do it. Its not sad. It offers him hope.
Yes, it is absolutely sad, and we recognize the impact it will have on him again. We do not believe he is really bonded. He does not seem to have that capacity in him yet. He shows affection, but often trying to get something. We really do not want to do this TO him. Honestly, we really do not. But there is a cog missing somewhere that makes him unable to function, even at a level seen in many kids with a trauma history, and some with far worse. We'd like to see what a more intense setting will offer him. If there is hope, maybe it will be recognized in such a setting. We cannot/will not re-home our dogs, and as it stands they are being kept separate. It is a sad state for all involved. Yep, we certainly recognize our mistakes (we honestly felt he had made more progress at the therapeutic home he was in, but come to find out he hadn't, and they will not take him back). Makes us feel pretty crappy.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Dont feel guilty. I thought our boy felt bad too but he never cried or asked for us and when asked if he missed us he said,"I miss the toys and money but I already had lots of families."
Even in rehab he tried to sexually abuse ither kids, but he couldnt because he was watched.
If you adopted this child and he did something to somebody else as a minor, you are liable and can lose a lot. I dont know if it is like that in every country, but it is here.
This child's needs are beyond your skills. I get angry when social workers try to put kids this dangerous into homes instead of mental health facilities.
in the end, this child jas suffered so much trauma, he may always be dangerous. Three other families could not handle him and neither can you.
I'm relieved you made a smart decision for you and for this boy. the state will have to help him whether they want to or not now. And you and your pets and neighbors will be safer.
Attachment disorder is very sad, but average people, and even professionals, don't know what to do about it yet. it is equivalent in thought and behavior to psychopathy in adults. Adult psychopaths can show fake affection to get what they want too. Sadly, these kids learn to use people very early. They have to, but their past is not your fault. Their pasts can spawn our future criminals.
Love doesnt help them. It scares them. The more you try to make them family, the worse they do to others.
Take care and have no regrets. This dhoild never have happened. How many families have to be ruined before the State picks up the tab?
From one who has been there, I am glad you won't be.
Even in rehab he tried to sexually abuse ither kids, but he couldnt because he was watched.
If you adopted this child and he did something to somebody else as a minor, you are liable and can lose a lot. I dont know if it is like that in every country, but it is here.
This child's needs are beyond your skills. I get angry when social workers try to put kids this dangerous into homes instead of mental health facilities.
in the end, this child jas suffered so much trauma, he may always be dangerous. Three other families could not handle him and neither can you.
I'm relieved you made a smart decision for you and for this boy. the state will have to help him whether they want to or not now. And you and your pets and neighbors will be safer.
Attachment disorder is very sad, but average people, and even professionals, don't know what to do about it yet. it is equivalent in thought and behavior to psychopathy in adults. Adult psychopaths can show fake affection to get what they want too. Sadly, these kids learn to use people very early. They have to, but their past is not your fault. Their pasts can spawn our future criminals.
Love doesnt help them. It scares them. The more you try to make them family, the worse they do to others.
Take care and have no regrets. This dhoild never have happened. How many families have to be ruined before the State picks up the tab?
From one who has been there, I am glad you won't be.
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Yes, you are correct and thank you SOT. It is hard not to feel terrible. We never believe these kids are disposable. But, we see a very serious future for this kiddo based upon his behaviors from such a young age. Unless he gets significant intervention, it's not a pretty future.... and even if he gets it, we hope it's not too late. We have to remind ourselves of this, and also how utterly devastated we would be if he seriously harmed another kid while out of our site.
Malika
Well-Known Member
It seems to me it is human to feel guilty and something would be amiss with you if you did not. At the same time I do not feel you should feel guilty... if you want to see mistakes, I could show you my own life littered with them... So often we do not and cannot see how things will pan out and we act with the best of intentions. But that does not stop you feeling sad for this little lad whose unlovely behaviour is the acting out of what others have done to him... I am sure it is possible to let go of him with a soft heart and not a hard one, as you seem to be doing.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
It does not help them mentally to feel guilty about something they cant control. To me I am just glad they did the right thing. I dont think you should have a hard heart to do this. But unless you want to end up with dead pets and possible serious legal issues, you still have to do it.
Two of my animals were dead at his hands (possibly three...a cat went missing) and he had sex with at least three much younger kids so in our case we just wanted him gone once we realized. I have folliwed his progress...he has three kids now (shudder) and is in legal trouble. He was a registered sex offender...dont know if he still has to sign up but feel sick about his children. Doubt he told his girlfriend.
This child is on the same path.I hope he gets better before somebody gets hurt.
Two of my animals were dead at his hands (possibly three...a cat went missing) and he had sex with at least three much younger kids so in our case we just wanted him gone once we realized. I have folliwed his progress...he has three kids now (shudder) and is in legal trouble. He was a registered sex offender...dont know if he still has to sign up but feel sick about his children. Doubt he told his girlfriend.
This child is on the same path.I hope he gets better before somebody gets hurt.
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This is just so accurate! Honestly, if a healthy attachment is not formed by 1.5 years, from what we have read and what we have been told... it never will. The only hope is for them to be able to learn to cope and pretend. The social worker feels guilty I believe, about what the kid has done. Not his fault, it's the fault of a system that is over burdened and under funded.
SOT, yes. If it were just the case of him acting out because of what others have done to him, I wouldn't be here on this board. We get that, and we understand it. This just goes to a whole other level. To watch a kid laugh hysterically while a dog trembles in fear over him being in the same room.... etc. etc. etc. One could call it sad, we call it just downright scary.
Malika
Well-Known Member
I cannot "make" anyone feel guilty. Also I am not sure how you know what I know or don't know about attachment disorder, whether or not my son suffers from it and whether or not he is a danger to others... honestly! An awful lot of assumptions going on here. Lovelife has already said she feels sad and guilty and I am just trying to say that there seems to me human and understandable, if not warranted. I feel you persistently misunderstand what I am trying to say, SOT, perhaps for reasons of your own and I shall really stop now. Lovelife you have my sympathy and it must be an excrutiating situation for all concerned.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Malika, if your son was that bad, you would no longer have your dog. Or, if he tortures or tries to kill your dog and the dog is still there, do rehome the poor animal
And not all attachment disorder is this extreme.
Your son changed a lot if he us sexually acting out to others, hurting animals etc. and my heart goes out to you. But I would give you the same advice...you can't help this degree of severe behavior and others can be badly hurt. He probably should not live in a community of animals and other children. These dsngerous children have the best chance (as do those who come in contact with them) if they live in treatment centers.
I hope little J. did not deteriorate to this...I thought he had so much potential. He seemed so cute and creative.
And not all attachment disorder is this extreme.
Your son changed a lot if he us sexually acting out to others, hurting animals etc. and my heart goes out to you. But I would give you the same advice...you can't help this degree of severe behavior and others can be badly hurt. He probably should not live in a community of animals and other children. These dsngerous children have the best chance (as do those who come in contact with them) if they live in treatment centers.
I hope little J. did not deteriorate to this...I thought he had so much potential. He seemed so cute and creative.
AppleCori
Well-Known Member
Lovelife is trying to make the best possible choice for this boy and his situation.
If she thought she could make a positive difference in this child's life, and that he and her family would be best served by having him adopted into her home, she would do that.
She has reached out in desperation, hoping to find answers.
Lovelife will have to do what is best for this child and her family as well.
Lovelife, I hope that this won't deter you from adopting from the foster care system in the future.
So sorry for this.
Apple
If she thought she could make a positive difference in this child's life, and that he and her family would be best served by having him adopted into her home, she would do that.
She has reached out in desperation, hoping to find answers.
Lovelife will have to do what is best for this child and her family as well.
Lovelife, I hope that this won't deter you from adopting from the foster care system in the future.
So sorry for this.
Apple
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
Actually, attachment disorder of the severity of which SWOT and the OP speak is very rare. Much more common is what I have: "insecure attachment". It's caused by incomplete bonding with a caregiver during early life.
In my case, it's from spending 6 weeks in NICU after birth. The hospital in which I was born in 1960 was quite modern in its thinking for the time and had "baby cuddlers": retired men and women who spend time holding and cuddling the babies, singing to them, etc.
I wasn't born with any trouble attaching. I became quite attached to the elderly gentleman who spent hours cuddling me and singing me lullabies. My mother was only allowed to see me for an hour 2x daily. I spent more time by far with the volunteer caregiver.
I was quite upset when the time came for me to go home and I had to leave my old man and I didn't want my parents to touch me. I did get used to them gradually and attach to them, but apparently not as closely as is normal. In addition, I was always afraid of losing them, like I had lost "my" caregiver in the hospital.
The various types of insecure attachment have different causes and in most cases can be helped with therapy.
I feel terrible about it now. Here were my parents with this baby they'd tried for years to have. Baby is a premie and has to stay in NICU until she gains some weight and is breathing better. Baby hates mommy and daddy.
In my case, it's from spending 6 weeks in NICU after birth. The hospital in which I was born in 1960 was quite modern in its thinking for the time and had "baby cuddlers": retired men and women who spend time holding and cuddling the babies, singing to them, etc.
I wasn't born with any trouble attaching. I became quite attached to the elderly gentleman who spent hours cuddling me and singing me lullabies. My mother was only allowed to see me for an hour 2x daily. I spent more time by far with the volunteer caregiver.
I was quite upset when the time came for me to go home and I had to leave my old man and I didn't want my parents to touch me. I did get used to them gradually and attach to them, but apparently not as closely as is normal. In addition, I was always afraid of losing them, like I had lost "my" caregiver in the hospital.
The various types of insecure attachment have different causes and in most cases can be helped with therapy.
I feel terrible about it now. Here were my parents with this baby they'd tried for years to have. Baby is a premie and has to stay in NICU until she gains some weight and is breathing better. Baby hates mommy and daddy.
Malika
Well-Known Member
No, J is not sexually acting out or hurting animals. I have seen him squashing bugs but most little boys seem to do that, alas. He does continue to have meltdowns on a regular basis but mainly he is not violent, or certainly not physically. He sometimes has really horrible behaviour but is basically a kind-hearted and "reachable" kid underneath. I was not trying to say that he has this form of reactive attachment disorder but I DO know something about it and J and I do have attachment problems, for various reasons. A kind of insecure attachment, as GoingNorth refers to. Obviously what Lovelife is dealing with her is an extremely severe form of behaviour that is more akin to psychopathy (I say that without judgement of the child) and it must indeed be extremely distressing to see a young child finding the pain of other creatures amusing and seemingly unable to bond. I can see that he probably needs something much more than Lovelife and her husband can offer because the intervention is now coming too late in the day and will not get "better" without intense support. I even fantasise, quite often actually, about sending J to a residential school for his own good because he so needs to learn to respect boundaries and regulate his own behaviour - and because life with him is often so very challenging. For all that he is such a lovely kid. And underneath this kid that Lovelife is having to "give up" was once a lovely kid too. That is what is sad.
Malika
Well-Known Member
Oh - and just to say, thanks for these words about J. He IS cute and creative and does have much potential and... It is good to be reminded of that because I fear I forget it on a regular basis because the difficult behaviour is so constant and unrelenting - not crazy, out of all control difficult but kind of ODD difficult, I suppose. Sometimes it seems like everything is complicated, nothing is simple (a request to do a simple household task that would take a minute or so can lead to many minutes of protest and shouting...) Most if not all people here will know what I am talking about. I am the last person to criticise someone for feeling like they cannot cope or should not cope... I am just saying it is sad. It seems okay to me to feel sadness for things.
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Thank you SOT, Malika, GoingNorth. You all are amazing individuals, and I so appreciate the input you have provided. Malika, you do not know how much we WANT to believe that this was once a lovely kid. Reading the history though, we are just so sad to see that, no, there was never a "lovely kid". That is why we believe that there is some genetic component to his issues, along with a never formed attachment... to anybody. The opposition and defiance we expected, and we can work with that with the right support. The cruelty to the dogs came later though, and was not seen during his transition visits. (he mostly ignored them). That would have been an absolute deal breaker for us. Come to find out, he tried to smother the dog in the previous home (and his brother and another dog in yet another home). Alas, not a lot can be seen in a couple of weekends a month though.
Yes, we were naive to think that getting him into a stable, permanent home with lots of structure, boundaries, and physical exercise, along with the "right" therapy would mean we could help him write his new path and better chapters to his life. I have no idea why we thought we were so different.
Thank you again everybody. We really appreciate your thoughts and experience.
Yes, we were naive to think that getting him into a stable, permanent home with lots of structure, boundaries, and physical exercise, along with the "right" therapy would mean we could help him write his new path and better chapters to his life. I have no idea why we thought we were so different.
Thank you again everybody. We really appreciate your thoughts and experience.
This is very interesting, as this kid also spent several weeks in NICU after birth. Late to reach all milestones as well. I do not believe he formed an attachment to his biological parents. (propped up bottle fed, chaotic home, etc.). This kid also freaks out if left alone (we can't even walk upstairs with-o him asking where we are going; he will scream if we walk a little ahead of him, etc.)
