Suz
(the future) MRS. GERE
Susan,
Another refresher...
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/#JUMP2
Suz
Another refresher...
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/#JUMP2
Suz
All I know to do
- Thread starter standswithcourage
- Start date
- Status
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Stands...
Truly...if something does happen to your son, they will contact you. Really they will. I do not believe for a minute that your son has gone to the trouble to do legal change of addresses every single time he moves! Undoubtedly his legal or last address that the law has on record...probably an old drivers license or ID...is your house. People know you are his mom. They will come to you.
Heck...the United States Marines found me and contacted me when they were looking for my son even though he hadnt lived here in 6 years and I wasnt his next of kin anymore! I dont even have his same last name...lol.
Trust me...if someone needs to find you about your son...they will.
Truly...if something does happen to your son, they will contact you. Really they will. I do not believe for a minute that your son has gone to the trouble to do legal change of addresses every single time he moves! Undoubtedly his legal or last address that the law has on record...probably an old drivers license or ID...is your house. People know you are his mom. They will come to you.
Heck...the United States Marines found me and contacted me when they were looking for my son even though he hadnt lived here in 6 years and I wasnt his next of kin anymore! I dont even have his same last name...lol.
Trust me...if someone needs to find you about your son...they will.
witzend
Well-Known Member
I'm not clear why it is that you went? Did it change anything? I mean, other than to confirm that things are bad? This is a giant step back for you, Susan.
I notice that you did this after we advised Jbrain to contact the club her daughter worked at after a sudden change in the situation with her daughter. Please know that we are all taking very great pains to tailor advice particularly to your situation, and that what we might say to someone else doesn't really apply to you. Your situation with your son is very extreme. He is extremely out of control, moreso that most anyone else on the PE board, and you are extremely involved in his mess, moreso than anyone else on the PE board. When you go to talk to your therapist please, please, please do not ask if she thinks it would help to get him into some sort of program. That's a waste of time and money, as the answer is no, and you should know that. You don't need to pay for that advice. The question you need to ask is "should I be going to his trailer to check up on him?" The answer to that is "no", too. But you need more insight into how to stop that type of behavior than we can give you here.
I notice that you did this after we advised Jbrain to contact the club her daughter worked at after a sudden change in the situation with her daughter. Please know that we are all taking very great pains to tailor advice particularly to your situation, and that what we might say to someone else doesn't really apply to you. Your situation with your son is very extreme. He is extremely out of control, moreso that most anyone else on the PE board, and you are extremely involved in his mess, moreso than anyone else on the PE board. When you go to talk to your therapist please, please, please do not ask if she thinks it would help to get him into some sort of program. That's a waste of time and money, as the answer is no, and you should know that. You don't need to pay for that advice. The question you need to ask is "should I be going to his trailer to check up on him?" The answer to that is "no", too. But you need more insight into how to stop that type of behavior than we can give you here.
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standswithcourage
New Member
True. He did call and say he was ok and was with the family he was living with before. The man that owns the lawn business. I was dumb to go to the trailer. I dont want to take steps back. Thanks for lifting me up again. They dont have a phone where he lives - or so they say - no matter what - it all seems to be not a very good situation. I read the cope.org that someone sent to me. I did not go and get him again. I am not going to engage anymore. I try too hard to be his "mother" and that does not help him. he seems to be fairly happy. Amazing. He says he needs a girlfriend to take care of him! Whatever. I will read the other posts and not apply their situation to mine. I think that is what I did. thanks for reminding me.
standswithcourage
New Member
Also thanks to Suz - I did read the Livestrong thing too! I am going to make it.
Good for you, Stands--you will be okay. I can say that if my difficult child 1 (the one I called the club about) had been in your son's situation I would not be doing anything. I would be going on with my own life, doing my own thing, and letting her live with her choices. I really don't think your son is miserable--he is okay with how things are. If and when he wants to do something different he will.
Also, once I had the info on my dtr--that someone had seen her in the past week--I breathed a sigh of relief and put it behind me. I may not hear from her (she said she'd call in her text message to me) but that's okay--I'm not at a standstill--if I don't hear from her it's okay, I know she is not missing. I truly am not sitting around worrying about her or obsessed about her, wondering why she doesn't call or why she doesn't have a phone, etc. I know she lives a chaotic lifestyle--I don't have to be involved in it.
Take care--you will make it!
Hugs,
Jane
Also, once I had the info on my dtr--that someone had seen her in the past week--I breathed a sigh of relief and put it behind me. I may not hear from her (she said she'd call in her text message to me) but that's okay--I'm not at a standstill--if I don't hear from her it's okay, I know she is not missing. I truly am not sitting around worrying about her or obsessed about her, wondering why she doesn't call or why she doesn't have a phone, etc. I know she lives a chaotic lifestyle--I don't have to be involved in it.
Take care--you will make it!
Hugs,
Jane
PonyGirl
Warrior Parent
Stands, I am glad you keep reading and listening. You WILL make it!! Just a few thoughts about how I handled things when my difficult child was in a similar situation as your difficult child....When the compulsion to go find him would hit me, I tried to say a prayer. I prayed to have that compulsion removed. I tried to believe that the feeling would pass, and eventually it did. And later, when my difficult child sat in county jail, I tried to pretend to myself that he was away at college! Sounds goofy now, but it actually did help a little. He was 19, and most of his classmates had gone away to college, and so I just pretended...
Peace
Peace
Star*
call 911........call 911
Hi Stands,
I don't know if this will be helpful or hurtful but I'm giving it a whirl.....
Last night I was talking to DF about your situation, you, and your son. I told him how he's living in an abandoned trailer - the works. He sat and shook his head. He was sorrowful for you. Then he said "How old is this boy?" and I said "Twenty five." and he looked shocked and said "Time to tell Mom the flat truth - he's a man, not a boy - he needs to live his life and she needs to live HERS---Really? TWENTY FIVE and she's still chasing after him? How does she expect him to grow up?"
I shrugged because I have a Mother's heart - but....I can tell you that my DF was a real biker for years and years. He hurt his family nearly beyond repair.....his Mother told me she finally let go at 17 because of the drugs and drinking and not obeying and they lived in North Dakota where it's freezing cold nearly all year. When he met me? He said he finally wanted something MORE than he wanted booze or drugs -
He was 41......
I think his advice most days is pretty sage.....for an old biker dude gone totally top notch step dad.
Hope this helps -
I don't know if this will be helpful or hurtful but I'm giving it a whirl.....
Last night I was talking to DF about your situation, you, and your son. I told him how he's living in an abandoned trailer - the works. He sat and shook his head. He was sorrowful for you. Then he said "How old is this boy?" and I said "Twenty five." and he looked shocked and said "Time to tell Mom the flat truth - he's a man, not a boy - he needs to live his life and she needs to live HERS---Really? TWENTY FIVE and she's still chasing after him? How does she expect him to grow up?"
I shrugged because I have a Mother's heart - but....I can tell you that my DF was a real biker for years and years. He hurt his family nearly beyond repair.....his Mother told me she finally let go at 17 because of the drugs and drinking and not obeying and they lived in North Dakota where it's freezing cold nearly all year. When he met me? He said he finally wanted something MORE than he wanted booze or drugs -
He was 41......
I think his advice most days is pretty sage.....for an old biker dude gone totally top notch step dad.
Hope this helps -
rejectedmom
New Member
Stands, You slipped but you picked yourself back up. That is great. We all stumble at times. Do not focus on your falls just on your progress. You have come a long long way on this journey but you still have a distance to go. Keep putting in the effort to move along toward a better way of life and one morning you will wake up happy that the journey is finished and you are on a new path. -RM
standswithcourage
New Member
Thanks everyone. I have to stop doing anything for my son. Sometimes we give him food but I cannot be around him. I am not good for him and vice versa. He said the other day Mom we dont get along - we used to. Well maybe that was when I was doing everything he wanted me to. We went round and round again the other day about money - just $10 - just $20 - I kept saying no - I got him Taco Bell - he had walked to the ER again - I was picking him up to take him back to where he came from when all this came about - I was about in tears - he continued to harrass me about money to pay for his prescription - I did not - stopped the car and told him to get the(*&^^% out of my car - he wouldnt - said to take him to a pharmacy and he would get his prescirption filled - he threw the Taco all over my car - i took him to the pharmacy and let him out and drove off - I was a basket case again and my husband was livid - no more will I get in the car with him - I am sure he got his prescription filled - I am sure he is "high" somewhere - I still fear for his life - but I have to go on - I am supposed to go with my husband this weekend on a trip Friday and saturday night - my easy child is staying home but has to work - I hope difficult child doesnt come by - I told easy child to plan something for the hours he doesnt have to work - he probably will - my husband just wants it to be us two this time. Boy what a life!
witzend
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you are deciding to not get into a car with him again. I'm surprised that the ERs haven't got him down on their "drug seeking" lists. They will figure it out eventually.
I know that you worry about his being hungry, but that seems like an awful lot of trouble to get him a taco that he threw in your face. He won't starve if you don't buy him a taco. What was it that brought you to be in contact with him? Nothing good came of it for either of you, it seems. The next time he contacts you and asks you for something, I want you to ask yourself when was the last time that anything you did for him turned out well. I don't mean "it was good until he got nasty", I mean "it turned out really well and nothing went wrong." If something doesn't come to mind right away then you need to remind yourself that nothing good will come of seeing him or doing anything for him.
Set yourself free, Susan. Leave him be.
I know that you worry about his being hungry, but that seems like an awful lot of trouble to get him a taco that he threw in your face. He won't starve if you don't buy him a taco. What was it that brought you to be in contact with him? Nothing good came of it for either of you, it seems. The next time he contacts you and asks you for something, I want you to ask yourself when was the last time that anything you did for him turned out well. I don't mean "it was good until he got nasty", I mean "it turned out really well and nothing went wrong." If something doesn't come to mind right away then you need to remind yourself that nothing good will come of seeing him or doing anything for him.
Set yourself free, Susan. Leave him be.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Drug addicts are NOT hungry. They do NOT eat. My daughter was a stick when she used. She tells me she had no appetite. Your son is likely using amphetamines or coke or both and they kill one's appetite. You are trying to act like he has normal needs and desires, like good food and warmth. He only wants his drugs. Any money you give him will go for drugs. Prescription my butt. He wants to get his drugs.
in my opinion you should not pick him up from anywhere anymore. He is living the life a drug addict does and you can't change it. You can only get caught in the middle. He could hurt you. He's a strong adult man and he's high. I know he's your son, but he's dangerous now.
Good luck. Keep on trying. Have fun with your hub. You deserve that.
in my opinion you should not pick him up from anywhere anymore. He is living the life a drug addict does and you can't change it. You can only get caught in the middle. He could hurt you. He's a strong adult man and he's high. I know he's your son, but he's dangerous now.
Good luck. Keep on trying. Have fun with your hub. You deserve that.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Stands...I am glad you are learning to say NO. It is so hard to do. It still amazes my son when I say it to him because I just always gave in to him and now I have a backbone...lol.
Just the other day Cory called me and wanted me to loan him...(yeah right...I know loan means give) my window ac unit because he doesnt have air in his mobile home. I told him he has the money, go buy a couple of small window units. He hemmed and hawed and whined. I finally told him in no uncertain terms that he wasnt getting mine, my central doesnt cool my room because of problems with my duct work and I wasnt gonna be hot for him...lol. I WOULD help him look on craigslist for used ac units though. Which I did and he bought two small units. LOL...Score one for momma.
Just the other day Cory called me and wanted me to loan him...(yeah right...I know loan means give) my window ac unit because he doesnt have air in his mobile home. I told him he has the money, go buy a couple of small window units. He hemmed and hawed and whined. I finally told him in no uncertain terms that he wasnt getting mine, my central doesnt cool my room because of problems with my duct work and I wasnt gonna be hot for him...lol. I WOULD help him look on craigslist for used ac units though. Which I did and he bought two small units. LOL...Score one for momma.
If my daughter refused to get out of the car and then threw tacos all over my car, I might have been tempted to drive her to the police station instead of the pharmacy ;-) Food for thought (ha! no pun intended). BUT... no need to re-think that if you stand by your conviction NOT to get into a car with him again. Honestly, what I found was that the more crazy things Oldest did like that, the easier it was for me to NOT do things for her.. because it ticked me off so much. I can tell you that these days, she rarely asks me for anything. She seems to know where the line is.
Star*
call 911........call 911
Well if no one is going to say it - I guess I will......WHAT A JERK.
OMG to have a Mom that treats him like you do, has gone to the lengths that you have and then to have you BUY him food only to throw it at you? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I think when you buy food for a hungry person they don't throw it back at you they eat it.
I thought too, like Witz did - EVENTUALLY the hospital will figure out that he's trying to get medicine/pills etc. And put him on a do not prescribe list. They will see him, give him a bandaid and tell him to take aspirin. FOR EVERYTHING - crying wolf eventually will catch up with him and when he really does need something? They're going to tell him to take aspirin.
Gosh, how angry with HIMSELF he must have been to throw a taco on you. He says you can't get along? Fine - then don't be along for the ride of destruction.
I think we may be starting to see the light - (so I'm sending you sunglasses) - lol
(better get a pair for myself too)
OMG to have a Mom that treats him like you do, has gone to the lengths that you have and then to have you BUY him food only to throw it at you? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I think when you buy food for a hungry person they don't throw it back at you they eat it.
I thought too, like Witz did - EVENTUALLY the hospital will figure out that he's trying to get medicine/pills etc. And put him on a do not prescribe list. They will see him, give him a bandaid and tell him to take aspirin. FOR EVERYTHING - crying wolf eventually will catch up with him and when he really does need something? They're going to tell him to take aspirin.
Gosh, how angry with HIMSELF he must have been to throw a taco on you. He says you can't get along? Fine - then don't be along for the ride of destruction.
I think we may be starting to see the light - (so I'm sending you sunglasses) - lol
(better get a pair for myself too)ScentofCedar
New Member
****
This is a good thing, Stands. Your husband loves you! When the LAST thing I wanted was to be away, my husband used to take me away, too.
It saved our marriage.
Barbara
standswithcourage
New Member
I understand that. This tough love thing is not working out like I thought it would. It just seems to get more and more hopeless. My husband is getting very impatient. He says in two weeks he will put a no trespassing out on him. Sometimes I think he has to make money some how - how can he live - he has a felony on his record - but then I have to think I cant take up for him but how is this ever going to be successful. Sometimes I even still feel sorry for him and the situation because I believe he doesnt know what to do - or he knows and just doesnt want to do it. This is horrible. Sometimes I feel like I am pulled between my husband and other family to come away and just let someone die - it is so hard. I just wonder why he doesnt get it - how much longer do we have to deal with this and try not to worry. I stay stationary with my thoughts for so long and then I start to sink into worry and sadness. Does anyone else know what else we can do? What about Probate court - he has to have an address - or we have to bring him in our house and have them come and pick him up - what a sad thing - I now cant get in the car by myself with him - i think I just have post traumatic stress syndrome. I am going to alanon and I am going to make an appointment with a counselor - I asked husband if he would go and he said yes - if our insurance paid! Ya'll just keep praying for me. Sometimes I just get so weak I feel faint.
Stands.
There is nothing you can do for your son. Nothing. Tough Love is called that for a reason.. it is TOUGH. Things do tend to get worse before they get better. This isn't about "how is this ever going to be successful" ... this is for YOU, not for your son. This isn't about changing him, it's about changing YOU. As Witz keep saying, set yourself free...
However, what you CAN do.. is keep going to Al-Anon. Keep calling your sponsor (I swear you told us a year ago you had a sponsor... do you call her when these things happen? That's what she is for!) Another great resource is Families Anonymous...in fact, it might be an even better resource under the circumstances.
Stay strong..
Keep repeating the serenit prayer each time you are tempted to rescue.
There is nothing you can do for your son. Nothing. Tough Love is called that for a reason.. it is TOUGH. Things do tend to get worse before they get better. This isn't about "how is this ever going to be successful" ... this is for YOU, not for your son. This isn't about changing him, it's about changing YOU. As Witz keep saying, set yourself free...
However, what you CAN do.. is keep going to Al-Anon. Keep calling your sponsor (I swear you told us a year ago you had a sponsor... do you call her when these things happen? That's what she is for!) Another great resource is Families Anonymous...in fact, it might be an even better resource under the circumstances.
Stay strong..
Keep repeating the serenit prayer each time you are tempted to rescue.
witzend
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why it is that you think that tough love is making things more hopeless?
You had me in your corner with the "- how can he live - he has a felony on his record - but then I have to think I cant take up for him" until you said "but how is this ever going to be successful." How is that you are supposed to know the answer to that question? I swear to goodness, Susan, your son is the most successful junkie moocher I have ever heard of. That's what he wants to be, and he does it really really well. If you don't like his profession, you have to stop paying his wages. I don't know about you, but husband and I work for our food and clothes and home. Your son is working you for his. If you don't like the job he's doing, you need to fire him.
Why do you think that he will die if you leave him alone? I think most of us here on the board feel that you are nowhere near reality on that. He has no job or people skills because he's never had to do anything for himself, and he's more likely to die because he takes it for granted that he can steal whatever he wants whenever he wants from whomever he wants to feed his drug habit. One day, he is going to make the wrong person unhappy about that. Or, he is going to get drugs from the ER and overdose on it. Or, he'll trade those drugs from the ER for some street drug that will kill him. And you know what, Susan? He will die doing exactly what he knows how to do because no one ever made him work for anything. He's never been cold or hungry and he's sure that eventually mom will bail him out. I hope that makes you feel as uncomfortable as that makes me feel, because it's not what you should be doing for him, because it's time for you to prove that theory is wrong, and you are the only one that can do it.
Nothing.
Nothing.
NOTHING!
Please, if anyone disagrees with me in this statement, that there is nothing else Susan can do to fix her son, please say so. More importantly, if you think I'm right, please please please say so. She needs to know that it's not just me saying that there's nothing she can do for him and that he will have a better chance at a happy life if she will just leave him alone to deal with his own mess.
Honest to Pete, Susan, he is going to do what he is going to do and as long as he can rely upon you to feed and clothe and house him when he gets bad enough, he will continue to take drugs and steal from people and up the bad behavior because everyone else will have figured out that he's a junkie mooch that they don't want anything to do with. Leave him alone!
I have to say, Susan, I'm really disappointed that you are making these backwards steps into obsessing about your son and thinking that there is something that you can do, and most importantly feeling so miserable yourself. You say you are being pulled between people, but who other than your son is not telling you to leave him alone? Is there really someone telling you that you should help him? I'd like to try to understand what their thought process on that is, and what practical experience they've had that qualifies them to give that kind of advice. I'd love to hear their success story and see how accurately it reflects your son's story.
You say he needs an address for Probate Court. What does that have to do with you? He is making a choice, and it's not the one that you would have him make, but then again, he's not you, and you're not him. I'm not sure what you mean that you would have to bring him into your house and then they could come get him. Why on earth can't you let him live with the consequences of his actions?
Leave it alone Susan. You weren't feeling faint a few weeks ago, but then again, you weren't buying him tacos and checking his trailer and driving him around to and from drug buys a few weeks ago. Like it or not, going to the hospital and getting prescriptions is buying drugs and you shouldn't contribute to that.
If you have a stroke from all this stress, how will that help anyone? I'm really upset because you are in obvious distress, and you had been doing so well when you were not being involved in his life. Leave him alone and set yourself free.
You had me in your corner with the "- how can he live - he has a felony on his record - but then I have to think I cant take up for him" until you said "but how is this ever going to be successful." How is that you are supposed to know the answer to that question? I swear to goodness, Susan, your son is the most successful junkie moocher I have ever heard of. That's what he wants to be, and he does it really really well. If you don't like his profession, you have to stop paying his wages. I don't know about you, but husband and I work for our food and clothes and home. Your son is working you for his. If you don't like the job he's doing, you need to fire him.
Why do you think that he will die if you leave him alone? I think most of us here on the board feel that you are nowhere near reality on that. He has no job or people skills because he's never had to do anything for himself, and he's more likely to die because he takes it for granted that he can steal whatever he wants whenever he wants from whomever he wants to feed his drug habit. One day, he is going to make the wrong person unhappy about that. Or, he is going to get drugs from the ER and overdose on it. Or, he'll trade those drugs from the ER for some street drug that will kill him. And you know what, Susan? He will die doing exactly what he knows how to do because no one ever made him work for anything. He's never been cold or hungry and he's sure that eventually mom will bail him out. I hope that makes you feel as uncomfortable as that makes me feel, because it's not what you should be doing for him, because it's time for you to prove that theory is wrong, and you are the only one that can do it.
Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
NOTHING!
Please, if anyone disagrees with me in this statement, that there is nothing else Susan can do to fix her son, please say so. More importantly, if you think I'm right, please please please say so. She needs to know that it's not just me saying that there's nothing she can do for him and that he will have a better chance at a happy life if she will just leave him alone to deal with his own mess.
Honest to Pete, Susan, he is going to do what he is going to do and as long as he can rely upon you to feed and clothe and house him when he gets bad enough, he will continue to take drugs and steal from people and up the bad behavior because everyone else will have figured out that he's a junkie mooch that they don't want anything to do with. Leave him alone!
I have to say, Susan, I'm really disappointed that you are making these backwards steps into obsessing about your son and thinking that there is something that you can do, and most importantly feeling so miserable yourself. You say you are being pulled between people, but who other than your son is not telling you to leave him alone? Is there really someone telling you that you should help him? I'd like to try to understand what their thought process on that is, and what practical experience they've had that qualifies them to give that kind of advice. I'd love to hear their success story and see how accurately it reflects your son's story.
You say he needs an address for Probate Court. What does that have to do with you? He is making a choice, and it's not the one that you would have him make, but then again, he's not you, and you're not him. I'm not sure what you mean that you would have to bring him into your house and then they could come get him. Why on earth can't you let him live with the consequences of his actions?
Leave it alone Susan. You weren't feeling faint a few weeks ago, but then again, you weren't buying him tacos and checking his trailer and driving him around to and from drug buys a few weeks ago. Like it or not, going to the hospital and getting prescriptions is buying drugs and you shouldn't contribute to that.
If you have a stroke from all this stress, how will that help anyone? I'm really upset because you are in obvious distress, and you had been doing so well when you were not being involved in his life. Leave him alone and set yourself free.
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